Oracle Now Bundling Ask.com Adware With Java for Mac

[junkw]

may be illegal under new canadian anti-spam law. Explicit consent is required when installing something

 

[Taz Mangus]

If you're not a software developer, then you don't need Java. If you are a software developer, you understand that all this Java bashing makes the visitors to this site look like uninformed idiots.

It is not just developers that may need Java but there are Mac applications that need Java installed. So you may be forced to install a certain version Java. In my case I have two applications that need Java 6.

 

[davebritton11]

this needs to go

I always thought that this really cheapens Java (and Oracle) … does Oracle really need the money?

 

[zone23]

Do end-users still use Java? I can't remember the last time I even used an application or webpage that required my computer to have Java installed.

Mindcraft requires a java update to run.

 

[Tallgntlmn]

Then there is this thing called VMware vCenter that is a bread and butter software for my company... And guess what: It's built entirely on Flash AND Java. It's an extremely strategic tool for VMware by VMware, and I doubt that they will ever re-write it just to do anyone the favor to get rid off Flash and Java

LOL! This is one piece that I wish would ditch Flash NOW and switch to HTML 5. Who in their right mind would want to install Flash on a server and open it up to all the zero-day exploits? Better yet, go back to the C++ version which actually responded and could do everything within a reasonable amount of time. Something the Flash based web console does not do. Perhaps it has changed a bit for v6, hopefully anyway. A lot of VMware admins out there HATE the web interface. There is a 20+ page rant on the VMware Communities about this very thing.

Back on topic, I cannot stand when installers put all this crapware on your system just because you are lazy and click next, next, next, finish.

 

[chrfr]

may be illegal under new canadian anti-spam law. Explicit consent is required when installing something

The ask.com garbage only installs if you leave the boxes for it checked. I would figure this counts as consent, even if its disingenuous on Oracle's part.

 

[Vulkan]

I made a repackage of the Java installer as a .pkg that removes the Ask.com stuff to push to my network. If anyone wants the git for it PM me.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I right-clicked on the "Java 8 Update 40" installer app to show the package contents and located the JavaAppletPlugin.pkg package (as mentioned on some Mac admin sites). Using the package, I was able to install Java (or update existing installations) without any prompts to install a helper tool or Ask.com.

Java on the client side, especially in browsers, still stinks in my opinion, but at least this is an easy way to install Java without all the other crap.

Thanks for this. I am generally not a java fan but it has it's uses. I think C/C#/Python and maybe SWIFT are better languages.

----------

If you're not a software developer, then you don't need Java. If you are a software developer, you understand that all this Java bashing makes the visitors to this site look like uninformed idiots.

The last four companies I've worked at have all used JAVA heavily. So... when I say it's crap it's because I really believe that from having to use it for development. I really don't mind it for strictly non web-dev tasks so much. However, it's hideous for doing web development. JSP's are particularly bad IMO.

 

[chrfr]

I made a repackage of the Java installer as a .pkg that removes the Ask.com stuff to push to my network. If anyone wants the git for it PM me.

No need to repackage. The standard installer package without ask.com is inside the app bundle.

 

[cube]

Java installers (along with tons of others) have had this on the PC for years and years now. There's nothing even close to new there as far as PCs go.

I know that. I did not get bitten today.

 

[foobarbazqux]

Yet one more reason I hate Java.

 

[cube]

The ask.com garbage only installs if you leave the boxes for it checked. I would figure this counts as consent, even if its disingenuous on Oracle's part.

Opt-out is BS. Only opt-in should be allowed.

I just received a cable box with wireless radios activated, automatic enrollment into a free WiFi plan, no possibility of turning them off unless opting-out, and no possibility of registering to their crappy web management site for about a day to do it.

 

[CheMillan]

A very sneaky and underhanded way of Oracle to bundle Ask.com during the install process of the latest Java. I stopped installing Java and Flash on my Macs years ago. It's time to give Java and Flash the boot for good. We've had enough of this crap. Heads will roll for this little stunt they pulled.

 

[unplugme71]

One of the many reasons I moved to Mac OS was to get away from extra bundled software especially when you first buy the computer. I'm glad Apple doesn't do this, except for iOS (Tips, podcasts, stocks, iBooks). I really hope other companies don't follow along with this and apple never includes useless software with the Mac.

Apple does not bundle apps for iOS or OSX. Just because you don't like tips or podcasts doesn't mean it's "bundled". It's like saying MS Paint was bundled with windows.

Apple does not include third party apps on iOS home screen or OS X app folder.

 

[John6Plus]

I wouldn't have Java on my Mac at all if my kids didn't play Minecraft. Come to think of it my kids are also the only reason I have Flash installed. I think it's time to make that the kids' machine.

Hmm. Retina for daddy...

 

[C DM]

A very sneaky and underhanded way of Oracle to bundle Ask.com during the install process of the latest Java. I stopped installing Java and Flash on my Macs years ago. It's time to give Java and Flash the boot for good. We've had enough of this crap. Heads will roll for this little stunt they pulled.

It's been happening for Java and many other installers for well over a decade. Certainly no heads have rolled or anything like that has happened in all those years.

 

[AlecZ]

Now that's just comical. C# is a Java clone, and Objective-C is an arcane mess. Even Apple knows this, which is why they replaced it with Swift (which is awesome).

I'm pretty sure Java has every flaw that Obj-C has and more. Most of the Obj-C flaws come from its weak functional programming support in comparison to Scala, Swift, and others, but Java is guilty of even worse problems with functional programming. Well, I don't know about Java 8, never used it. Obj-C certainly handles OOP better than Java does EXCEPT that it lacks generics (e.g. NSArray<NSString>).

Once I learned Obj-C, I never wanted to use Java again. And now with Swift, I don't want to use Obj-C anymore.

 

[THink7]

Dude, you definitely live in a non-business, non-corporate dream world, and you definitely mistake both technologies for something that is only used in websites.

Ever played "Rebuild" on iOS? That game is available in the App Store and it is written in Flash. Same goes for "Robokill" on OS X. Or "Machinarium".

Ever used "Cyberduck"? It's in the OS X App Store, too. And it's entirely written in Java. (CyberDuck actually has an Open Source Java VM integrated into its App bundle.)

Then there is this thing called VMware vCenter that is a bread and butter software for my company... And guess what: It's built entirely on Flash AND Java. It's an extremely strategic tool for VMware by VMware, and I doubt that they will ever re-write it just to do anyone the favor to get rid off Flash and Java.

Have you ever used a commercial VoIP PBX? Guess what most applications for these things are written in. Hint: It's not only an island or an American colloquial expression for coffee, it's actually also a software platform and a programming language.

Have you heard of certain cloud-based file sharing software solutions like SeaFile? Guess what they use... Heck, even Photoshop CS3 for the Mac required Java to be installed (I don't know if that has changed with later versions).

Neither Flash nor Java are going away any time soon. Because despite what most people tend to believe, both are platforms that allow developers to write OS- and hardware-independent software and that alone is reason enough for most coders to use them. And if it weren't for Flash and Java, the Mac would have even less business software than it has today.

If a software company like VMWare or PBX manufacturer like ShoreTel chooses to use Java it's not because it produces the best product, but because it's quick and cheap. There are other cross platform solutions out there. A great one is Qt.

You mentioned VMWare specifically, Alright, Well the vSphere native client STILL uses Microsoft J# which was discontinued many years ago. J# was intended to be Java + MS.Net. So as a Java developer could interface with the .net ecosystem without having to learn new syntax or update their core skill set.

It's not like VMWare ever intended to port the native client to Linux / OSX, so why use J# / Java-anything instead of something Windows-Native like Visual C++ or C# which produces better results? Because they already had the Java developers working for pennies.

Also, now that everything is web based, they can continue to skimp on development costs and hire inexpensive developers to code horrible management tools. Not to mention provide free users the the bare minimum to function hopefully forcing them to upgrade.

The people who do great work and make VMWare what is is today are not those who write the management tools. It's the low level developers who make systems like VMotion or HA work. Anyone can write a UI that wraps API commands, But it's the folks who implement the API and write the linux kernel extensions that deserve the money and consideration.

Most phone systems and security appliances (DVR's, alarm systems, physical access control units) use Java because that's how you did things back in the 90's when Java as a technology was revolutionary. And like so many products today, all they need is a new coat of paint to make them seem fresh and new. versionNumber++. Why bother rewriting the software and making it ACTUALLY new if the old one "works"? It will cost less to deal with the tech support requests like "Why do i need ActiveX / IE 7 / Java v6.78? Help make this work please!" Than it does to rewrite everything modern and proper.

TL;DR; - Java is fast and cheap. Not the best or right way in todays world for new products.

 

[C DM]

I'm pretty sure Java has every flaw that Obj-C has and more. Most of the Obj-C flaws come from its weak functional programming support in comparison to Scala, Swift, and others, but Java is guilty of even worse problems with functional programming. Well, I don't know about Java 8, never used it. Obj-C certainly handles OOP better than Java does EXCEPT that it lacks generics (e.g. NSArray<NSString>).

Once I learned Obj-C, I never wanted to use Java again. And now with Swift, I don't want to use Obj-C anymore.

So lots of backend and all kinds of enterprise/commercial and related services and frameworks that are done in Java can just be done in Objective C or Swift because they are "better" languages?

 

[AlecZ]

So lots of backend and all kinds of enterprise/commercial and related services and frameworks that are done in Java can just be done in Objective C or Swift because they are "better" languages?

Java has the advantages provided by the JVM, and it undoubtedly has more libraries available for it for those kinds of things. But I don't see why anything server-side uses Java instead of Scala or, better yet, Erlang OTP.

 

[topmounter]

It is a shame that Larry Ellison is ok with being a Scammy Adware King Pin. I guess if you're that rich then you can afford to take a hand full of Ambien every night with your bottle of Glenfiddich 40yo 😎

 

[JamesPDX]

The Choiceless Plus Plan

Opt-out is BS. Only opt-in should be allowed.

I just received a cable box with wireless radios activated, automatic enrollment into a free WiFi plan, no possibility of turning them off unless opting-out, and no possibility of registering to their crappy web management site for about a day to do it.

I call that the "Choiceless Plus" plan. Crap like that is everywhere in our lives.

 

[Dionte]

Bad Orcale, bad bad Oracle.

 

[Truffy]

One of the many reasons I moved to Mac OS was to get away from extra bundled software especially when you first buy the computer. I'm glad Apple doesn't do this, except for iOS (Tips, podcasts, stocks, iBooks). I really hope other companies don't follow along with this and apple never includes useless software with the Mac.

As you note, Apple already installs useless crap on iOS. Worse still, I can't see any way on uninstalling it.

As for OSX itself, the definition of "useless software" is a matter of preference. Personally, I have never used Photo Booth. And why is is that Server doesn't uninstall iTunes and other consumer software?

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Heads will roll for this little stunt they pulled.

What's the betting they don't?

 

[Truffy]

Be happy that you have that luxury. In my company I need to use several applications on a daily basis that run on Java, so I am not that lucky. And it's no consolation that Java generally sucks on all platforms, because it definitely sucks the most on the Mac.

Heh, I have to use a Java-based database on Windows. Except it doesn't run on the latest version of Java. So I have to run an older (less secure) version, and constantly get permissions dialogues. It may be a utopia for publishers and developers, but it's a PITA.