Hard to say. It could be just european telecos being more greedy, or maybe Apple is taking larger chunk of monthly fees in Europe. It was rumored that Apples cut would be as large as 30% in Europe, but I don't know what the same figure is in states.
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Orange Sells 70,000 iPhones in First Month
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Hard to say. It could be just european telecos being more greedy, or maybe Apple is taking larger chunk of monthly fees in Europe. It was rumored that Apples cut would be as large as 30% in Europe, but I don't know what the same figure is in states.
And just think about the money that they would lose if they did something as stupid as selling them SIM-unlocked!
Apple's biggest market is the US and if they sold these devices unlocked here, they would lose all of that AT&T subscriber money, which is the long run is a lot of money!
I'll take your first point but I'm not asking for a at cost price, if your numbers are right and they command a 30% profit margin, they could drop the prices by 10% or just 5%.
Your second point still doesn't have anything to do with hard figures. I can't discuss estimates.
The iPhone is already due for an upgrade.
The ones who really, really wanted an iPhone over here in Europe probably have found a way to get hold of one, and unlocked it.
The ones in the UK, Germany and France had the choice to wait for it to be launched in their country, and have the benefits of full support end service, or get one earlier and be really cool.
Now though, the other countries have waited too long for it IMHO. If I were to be triggered to get a legit iPhone in Holland by the time it arrives, I would expect it be have more features like 3G and GPS.
As Steve already "promised" 3G and GPS in the (near?) future, he actually nearly killed the sales of the current iPhone...
TBO I am a bit surprised that the number of sold iPhones is so high!
The ones who really, really wanted an iPhone over here in Europe probably have found a way to get hold of one, and unlocked it.
The ones in the UK, Germany and France had the choice to wait for it to be launched in their country, and have the benefits of full support end service, or get one earlier and be really cool.
Now though, the other countries have waited too long for it IMHO. If I were to be triggered to get a legit iPhone in Holland by the time it arrives, I would expect it be have more features like 3G and GPS.
As Steve already "promised" 3G and GPS in the (near?) future, he actually nearly killed the sales of the current iPhone...
TBO I am a bit surprised that the number of sold iPhones is so high!
Even if the estimates are wildly wrong (which they aren't) we know that Apple are making a huge amount of profit on each iPhone sold. Especially compared to Macs. And Apple uses off-the-shelf components to build the iPhone, we know exactly where they come from and how much they cost, so the estimates are probably fairly accurate.
whatever said:
Doesn't Steve like to talk about karma? Screwing over your customers for money can't be good for that...
It's easy to see why the iPhone hasn't been a mega hit in France and the UK. I live in Sweden and was a Orange county resident for 4 months last year.
The consumer market here is very different from the one in the US. In the US cell phone services are in humans expensive since you pay when you receive messages and calls, in Europe you don't .
Secondly many here don't live living on credit and prefer prepaid cards over contracts. Apple needs to realize this because the iPhone will never become a cash cow in Europe before apple sells it unlocked. European consumers are very critical, are in control and don't jump on anything they think is cool. Sure you can buy it unlocked in France for 999 I believe but that's way more than what most people are willing to pay for a phone.
So until the iPhone come down in price and sold unlocked many people here will be reluctant to buy it. Steve Jobs needs to take his thumb out of his ass and not be so greedy.
The consumer market here is very different from the one in the US. In the US cell phone services are in humans expensive since you pay when you receive messages and calls, in Europe you don't .
Secondly many here don't live living on credit and prefer prepaid cards over contracts. Apple needs to realize this because the iPhone will never become a cash cow in Europe before apple sells it unlocked. European consumers are very critical, are in control and don't jump on anything they think is cool. Sure you can buy it unlocked in France for 999 I believe but that's way more than what most people are willing to pay for a phone.
So until the iPhone come down in price and sold unlocked many people here will be reluctant to buy it. Steve Jobs needs to take his thumb out of his ass and not be so greedy.
As an Apple share holder, I love the idea of making money off of the providers.
I now the following statement would upset many, but if the iPhone was not a huge success in the US then the product would have had a second chance in the ROW, however, since it is a huge success in the US Apple can take it's time with the foreign markets. They (Apple) does not have to roll over and place dead for the providers. Apple gambled with their strategy and won. When a low power 3G chipset is available, then Apple will offer it and maybe even make the providers in Europe to give them more of the monthly subscriber money.
iPhones and other iPods were flying off of the shelves in the US Apple Stores all of December.
But why drop the price. What is Apple a charity? Maybe the oil companies should drop the price of oil too. Come on, it's supply and demand, pure and simple. People don't want a 3G or a smart phone, they want an iPhone.
There will never be cheap oil! It's a resource who's demand has exceeded it's supply. I wish Apple and others would promote digital delivered content (game, movies and music) as a way to reduce dependancy and waste of oil (yes, we care about reducing waste with jewel cases, but meanwhile we forget about the disc itself).
They aren't making money off the providers, they're making money off the consumers. The providers are simply off-loading Apple's monthly fee onto the bill that every iPhone user has to pay at the end of the month.
iPhone contracts cost more than better ones that also give you a free phone. Like I said, a joke. I don't know why O2 expected them to sell. As an Apple shareholder I would expect you to want O2 to be happy and for the iPhone to sell well in the UK (and Europe).
I'm sure that's not much consolation for O2.
Sorry about the back to back posts here, but I had to ask...
How is Apple screwing over customers? They offer a product and as a customer you choose to buy it, with the knowledge that it ran on a particular network and set of features.
I bought an iPhone that ran on the AT&T network with EDGE instead of G3. I knew this. Now if tomorrow they told me that EDGE no longer worked and I could only use .Mac for e-mail then I would feel like I was being ripped off. But until then, I bought what I bought.
No harm, no foul.
As far as the contracts go, you're wrong, Apple is receiving the money from the provider. If AT&T chooses to lower their rates, they would still have to pay Apple.
O2 knows what they're getting themselves into. They know that they iPhone is the coolest (I'm not saying the best) smart phone out there and they see the numbers coming in from the US and know that it's just a matter of time.
Apple's own dictionary defines "rip-off" as "a fraud or swindle, esp. something that is grossly overpriced".
Now I would certainly call the UK iPhone contracts "grossly overpriced". The reason they're grossly overpriced is because of Apple's greed. I'm sure you, as an Apple shareholder, think it's great. I as a consumer, however, do not.
And the iPhone has pretty much been a flop for O2, what makes you think that'll change without a price drop? We aren't sheep, just because something's selling in America doesn't mean it will here because of that.
You are not making money off the providers, it is the iPhone customers who are paying the extra.
The O2 tariffs are around £8.50 a month more expensive than they should be.
If you don't believe me, here are some comparisons.
iPhone £35 per month with 200 minutes / 200 txts / data & Cloud Wi-Fi
O2 SIM only £15 per month with 200 minutes / 400 txts / data add on £7.50 / Cloud W-Fi £3.99 = £26.49
iPhone £45 per month with 600 minutes / 500 txts / data & Cloud Wi-Fi
O2 SIM only £25 per month with 600 minutes / 1000 txts / data add on £7.50 / Cloud W-Fi £3.99 = £36.49
iPhone £55 per month with 1200 minutes / 500 txts / data & Cloud Wi-Fi
O2 SIM only £25 per month with 1200 minutes / 1000 txts / data add on £7.50 / Cloud W-Fi £3.99 = £36.49
For reference, the £3.99 Cloud is for the iPod touch package.
Each tariff is £8.51 extra with only half the included text messages.
Although Steve announced it in Jan... I'm sure the iPhone has only been out 6 months and a week. I should know I stood in line for 4 hours on June 29.
Sorry everyone, my last reply I promise.
Your complaint appears to be more with O2's iPhone contract than the price of the iPhone. If Apple lowered the price of the iPhone, O2's iPhone contract prices would remain the same.
Complain to O2, obviously they think their customers are pretty stupid that they can sneak that by you. If this was some ploy by Apple to screw customers, don't you think it would have happened here in the US. Remember AT&T here in the states did not have the power that an O2 or Verizon did, so Apple could have easily messed with the pricing of the contracts. But that is not the case. In fact my AT&T contract is a better contract than my old Verizon contract, more minutes with unlimited data (Verizon cost more and did not include data!).
Do I think O2 and others are trying to make back some of the money they're giving Apple. Yes. Would I blame Apple? NO! Like AT&T other providers can take a smaller profit to build their user base, if they choose to.
I'm not calling you sheep, I'm just saying that the US is a much larger market and it's selling well here (I know of entire families that got iPhones for Christmas).
And let's be honest when a cool gadget/technology takes off in the US, the rest of the world normally is not far behind. But when a cool gadget/technology doesn't take off in the US....
Again, I'm not calling everyone else sheep, but let's look at Japan for a second. They have some of the coolest gadgets in the world, but how many of them just don't succeed outside of Asia?
If the iPhone were offered with the same lack-of-value monthly plans as they are in Europe, I doubt they'd sell as quickly here as they do.
So is it AT&T that got it right by absorbing some of Apple's extra cost instead of passing it along to the customer?
If the end result is that iPhones are flying off the shelf in the US because of this decision, European carriers might want to take note.
Trouble with your argument is that we are talking about mobile-phones. Europe is ahead of US when it comes to phones. We have more advanced networks, people buy more expensive phones etc. European companies control roughly half of global telephone market. Many american networks are actually controlled by European companies (T-mobile, Verizon etc).
Apple's market model for iPhone works great in US, but they should have changed it accordingly to more advanced European market, and they better learn the lesson by the time iPhone is released it Asia where some of the markets are even more advanced than in Europe.
Not entirely right. Although Europe and the US has common "western markets" things don't work the same way in both places.
Like I have said earlier the problem is here is iPhone + cellphone model. The majority of people here have unlocked phones. We like freedom and don't want to be forced into buying a cellphone locked to one carrier or be pushed into a corner in any way. The issue here is the iPhone + plan model.
Very few people here are willing to shell out 400 euro for a phone and be forced to sign an expensive 18 month contract to use the phone. That's simply not how things work around there. For 400 dollars you get a unlocked top for the line Sony Ericsson phone here and are free to do what every you want there after. Many of the people I know and meet with buy an unlocked phone, get which ever prepaid card they want and don't spend more than 10-20 euro on refill every month.
So what apple needs to do is to drop the whole contract binding and sell the iPhone here unlocked for 400-700 euro, instead of being greedy wanting to make money off customers over a long period of time. So the trouble maker here isn't the network since Apple are the main force behind the contracts.
Most definitely. I think the iPhone hardware price is fine, and would happily pay it if the contracts weren't so bad. But then the price of the iPhone isn't just the initial hardware cost, I'm smart enough to include what I'll end up paying in the long-run and for me it simply isn't worth it.
But I realise the reason O2 iPhone contracts are so bad is because of Apple and the deal they demanded if O2 were to get the iPhone. The reason it's exclusive to one carrier is because Apple played them off each other to get as much money for themselves from the deal as possible. Most phones in the UK are released on every carrier. Apple saw how successful the iPhone was in the US and demanded heaven and earth from the EU carriers if the rumours are to be believed (from The Guardian no less).
I suspect that O2 are paying Apple a lot more of the monthly contract than AT&T are. You are right that O2 are also at fault, but if they hadn't agreed to it some other carrier would have.
I do agree with you that America and Japan do influence the EU and everywhere else when it comes to technology. I was just making a funny comment when I said did you think we were sheep, I didn't really mean anything by it.
When it comes to mobile phones the EU is more advanced than the US. Both in terms of the models we get, the contracts we get and even how we use our phones (the exception being the iPhone). There's more competition which will make it harder for Apple to penetrate the market.
And like you say, you got a better contract when you moved to AT&T so the situation is entirely different over here. People need to be willing to put up with being locked into horrible contracts in order to own an iPhone. Most aren't prepared for that, I know I'm not.
EDIT: Just to add, you have no idea how disappointed I was when the contracts were announced. I was really ready for an iPhone...
Sorry, for yet another post. I was going to edit my last my post, but then thought what if those who commented didn't see my reply....
I just wanted to agree with the people who stated that EU, Asia and pretty much most of the world have more advanced mobile phone networks than the US. And in fact we also have really bad Internet access too (it's well documented and very embarrassing).
I guess my original comments centers around the notion that Apple is ripping consumers off with the iPhone. I do not believe they are.
Since the introduction of the iPhone I've learned more about global mobile market. Apple locking people into a particular carrier may not be the best solution, but there were reasons behind it (right now it appears to be for money (they are a business after all and want to have a more control over how the iPhone is sold throughout the world) and the visual voice mail).
Carriers such as O2 are charging a premium rates to iPhone customers. I do agree that is wrong, but still not ripping customers off. However in the long run this might come back and bite them (and I hope it does).
Imagine if Apple worked out contracts with providers and started to sell Apple branded Pre-Paid cards and behind the scenes Apple negotiated the deals.
Alright, I'm done for the day. No more boring responses from me. I promise for real.
Given the phenomenal level of bad press CW generated with their pushing expensive insurance I'm surprised they have managed to sell any
Me and my friends? We dealt direct with Apple. Talk to the organ grinder - not the monkey.
O2 and iPhone v1 only exclusive
did anyone pick up in the ft article the following quote:
A 3G version of the iPhone is due to be launched by Apple next year and Mr Key is confident that O2 will also have an exclusive deal for the mark II device.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9e499580-b18b-11dc-9777-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
O2 DO NOT have a long term contract with Apple (unlike the US) - this is a SINGLE device contract - the 3G version may be with a different telco!!
did anyone pick up in the ft article the following quote:
A 3G version of the iPhone is due to be launched by Apple next year and Mr Key is confident that O2 will also have an exclusive deal for the mark II device.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9e499580-b18b-11dc-9777-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
O2 DO NOT have a long term contract with Apple (unlike the US) - this is a SINGLE device contract - the 3G version may be with a different telco!!
as apple shareholder, you must love how the market reacted to the news: AAPL 180.05 -14.88 (-7.63%)
well, at least it's cheaper for you to get more stocks now?
and apple cannot take its time with the foreign markets. the global cell phone market is huge, but extremely competitive. see what happened to motorola when it "took its time" to introduce new models because of the huge success of razr.