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Orange Sells 70,000 iPhones in First Month
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well your stock is down almost 8% from yesterday no matter how much you originally paid.
Conversely it could be that AT&T negotiated harder because the US is a bigger market. And possibly Apple negotiated softer because of the importance of the home market to the success of the iPhone.
With the exception of the Japanese market, which is a non-starter without 3G, all other markets world-wide are a lot smaller than the US. Therefore it seems reasonable that Apple would have demanded more. From O2's tariff this seems to be at least £7=US$14 per month going in Apple's direction (that's the £8.51 difference from the iPhone contract and equivalent contracts less VAT).
'd like to point out that in the UK all this talk of overpricing or excessive tariffs is totally irrelevant to me. I live in an area that appears to be off the map as far as O2 Edge is concerned. Having travelled around the country a bit over the holiday period I was disappointed to find out how poor O2 Edge coverage is even in major cities.
While the network remains as poor as it is (I rang O2 and they don't have any plans to extend Edge to anywhere near me, for the foreseeable future) I wouldn't buy an iPhone at any price.
I've been into a couple of local CW stores and an O2 store and tried, in vain, to get onto the interweb in less that 90 secs - I'm surprised that they didn't get WiFi sorted instore just to sucker the punters into buying the device.
If it's true that the iPhone contract with O2 is a single device deal then at least there is a chance that Orange might get the next one (good coverage over most of the UK compared to O2). If Orange was a good partner for France (being "in tune with our ideals") why go with the worst provider in UK?
I think Apple have dropped the ball in the UK. Once the novelty has worn off, a lot of buyers are going to find the daily drag a pain. It's not a case of 3G vs EDGE. On the streets of the UK with O2 it's more EGDE vs GPRS. The sad thing is the bad press will be directed at the iPhone, not the carrier. I know of 2 people so far who have returned their iPhones for other "smart phones" citing lack of useable service (sorry, don't know the financial penalties/deals).
Just to add, I really was ready for an iPhone. Having played with them in the stores and borrowed one for a couple of hours around Bristol over Christmas, they are fantastic bits of kit, crippled by the wrong provider. For me this is way more important than price - that can be altered, I can't see O2 getting off their arses anytime soon to improve their end of things.
While the network remains as poor as it is (I rang O2 and they don't have any plans to extend Edge to anywhere near me, for the foreseeable future) I wouldn't buy an iPhone at any price.
I've been into a couple of local CW stores and an O2 store and tried, in vain, to get onto the interweb in less that 90 secs - I'm surprised that they didn't get WiFi sorted instore just to sucker the punters into buying the device.
If it's true that the iPhone contract with O2 is a single device deal then at least there is a chance that Orange might get the next one (good coverage over most of the UK compared to O2). If Orange was a good partner for France (being "in tune with our ideals") why go with the worst provider in UK?
I think Apple have dropped the ball in the UK. Once the novelty has worn off, a lot of buyers are going to find the daily drag a pain. It's not a case of 3G vs EDGE. On the streets of the UK with O2 it's more EGDE vs GPRS. The sad thing is the bad press will be directed at the iPhone, not the carrier. I know of 2 people so far who have returned their iPhones for other "smart phones" citing lack of useable service (sorry, don't know the financial penalties/deals).
Just to add, I really was ready for an iPhone. Having played with them in the stores and borrowed one for a couple of hours around Bristol over Christmas, they are fantastic bits of kit, crippled by the wrong provider. For me this is way more important than price - that can be altered, I can't see O2 getting off their arses anytime soon to improve their end of things.
You and me both.
As I see it at the moment, only rich people and, to be blunt, mugs, have got iPhones in the UK. When I see one -- and I don't see that many in comparison with the number of Crackberries, I just feel sorry for the person. I don't think that's the message Apple want to promote!
But in the end what you say is really about 3G vs EDGE. European networks didn't really impliment EDGE because most went straight to 3G (or built very limited EDGE-network).
There's really no point in building EDGE-network for just one phone.
Charming! I have an iPhone, and I'm really happy with it. It's a pleasure to use, as quick as I need, and costs me far less than my Nokia N70 used to cost on Orange, which I never even used for data. So far, I've received 188MB and sent 42MB since November 9th.
I agree completely. However I can't see O2 doing squat to improve their pathetic 3G coverage when the iPhone 3G rolls round this autumn either. It's almost impossible to find out from O2 where their EDGE coverage exists (most of the staff have never heard of EDGE) and the map on their website is painful to use at best.
Yeah, go Orange ;-)
IPhone Envy detected!
I'll admit to "location envy". If I could get an EDGE signal I'd get an iPhone.
As an American, I am sorry that our friends on the other side of the Atlantic who would like an iPhone have issues with it (pricing, coverage or provider restriction).
I agree with the poster (whatever?) who asserts that the problems in the UK, FR and Ger are more an issue with the telco than with Apple. It seems to me that many (but not all!) of the posters here seem simply to be lashing out at Apple in a misguided sort ot of way. I'd like to hear one good (i.e., rational, logical) explanation why the complaints about the contract is to be levelled at Apple's doorstep instead of at the telco's.
Too much about Apple's so-called greed strikes me as typical blah, blah, blah that one usually finds on a free-for-all Internet message board or blog.
BTW, I an not an Apple "fanboy" (or "girl"). I have never owned any Apple products until recently - an IPT 16G. True, I will probably one day buy an Apple computer and an iPhone, but that is by no means guaranteed (especially if the missus has any say about this).
I am mostly reading this thread and following Apple issues to see if AAPL stock offers good short-term or long-term investment opportunities. That so many posters in this thread vent emotionally instead of logically is just so much noise.
EVP
I agree with the poster (whatever?) who asserts that the problems in the UK, FR and Ger are more an issue with the telco than with Apple. It seems to me that many (but not all!) of the posters here seem simply to be lashing out at Apple in a misguided sort ot of way. I'd like to hear one good (i.e., rational, logical) explanation why the complaints about the contract is to be levelled at Apple's doorstep instead of at the telco's.
Too much about Apple's so-called greed strikes me as typical blah, blah, blah that one usually finds on a free-for-all Internet message board or blog.
BTW, I an not an Apple "fanboy" (or "girl"). I have never owned any Apple products until recently - an IPT 16G. True, I will probably one day buy an Apple computer and an iPhone, but that is by no means guaranteed (especially if the missus has any say about this).
I am mostly reading this thread and following Apple issues to see if AAPL stock offers good short-term or long-term investment opportunities. That so many posters in this thread vent emotionally instead of logically is just so much noise.
EVP
The reason we are shifting some of the blame onto Apple for the high tariffs is because they are the only phone manufacturer which demands a cut of the monthly subscription. The phone operators are just passing this charge on to the customer, resulting in poor value packages.
Can only speak for myself but i'm neither rich, nor a mug. And you definitely dont have to feel sorry for me.
The iPhone is so far ahead of the N series Nokia I had prior to it that it, and my WM corporate phone that it is worth the extra £10 a month I am paying on this contract...and even then I get unlimited data too.
I think what O2/Apple could do to alleviate some of the bad press is shift the contracts down so that:
£35 a month gets you 500 texts / 600 minutes
£45 a month gets you 500 texts / 1200 minutes
And have a bolt on for unlimited texts on there too. Throwing in more texts really cant hurt O2 financially can it?
This is getting a bit desperate just to prove a point, you're all over the place. Please stop you don't know what you're talking about, you're just getting second hand information from blogs and rumour sites and trying to present them to me in an argument as fact. Unless Apple speaks for itself everything is pure speculation.
I didn't ask Apple to drop the price but thanks for hijacking the discussion. I originally pointed out the flaw in Apple's reasoning when it comes to their products.
Internet fan sites are horrible place to look info for investments. Good place for heated discussions, not so much for anything trustworthy of your savings.
(and just in case: Didn't mean to flame you. Only an advice.)
Guilty as charged m'Lud
(The current rates are £35=200/200, £45=600/500 -- £1=US$2)
And allow 1 month's worth of rollovers.
Then it will be a better deal.
With the exception of the ridiculous data roaming charges (£7.50/Mb in Europe) and expensive out-of-plan phone charges (20p/min).
The reason we are shifting some of the blame onto Apple for the high tariffs is because they are the only phone manufacturer which demands a cut of the monthly subscription. The phone operators are just passing this charge on to the customer, resulting in poor value packages.
This is a poor reason to blast Apple. I see nothing wrong with Apple negotiating to their satisfaction with AT&T, Orange or any other carrier. If a carrier wants to squeeze maximum profit from this endeavor by passing (some of) the cost onto the customers, then that is a problem with the carrier.
As I see it, Apple produced a gadget that has significant "wow" factor and sets itself apart from the rest of the pack. A carrier that signs on with Apple to sell the iPhone should be able to use this opportunity to acquire more customers. It seems that the European carriers simply want to rake in maximum profit by riding the iPhone wave and passing the burden onto the customers (the subscription fees) and Apple (reputation and development costs).
There are two unanswered questions that may affect how I view this discussion:
1. Did Apple negotiate too much of a one-sided contract with the carriers?
2. Factoring in the contract with Apple, can it be shown that the carriers truly cannot offer better plans and still make selling iPhones a worthwhile endeavor (to the carriers)?
EVP
PS Matti - I understand what you're saying; this place ranks very low on my list of places I use for gathering information on financial decisions. Still, it does offer insight on some relevent issues and is usually a fun sight to read/troll. Thanks for the advice.
This is a poor reason to blast Apple. I see nothing wrong with Apple negotiating to their satisfaction with AT&T, Orange or any other carrier. If a carrier wants to squeeze maximum profit from this endeavor by passing (some of) the cost onto the customers, then that is a problem with the carrier.
As I see it, Apple produced a gadget that has significant "wow" factor and sets itself apart from the rest of the pack. A carrier that signs on with Apple to sell the iPhone should be able to use this opportunity to acquire more customers. It seems that the European carriers simply want to rake in maximum profit by riding the iPhone wave and passing the burden onto the customers (the subscription fees) and Apple (reputation and development costs).
There are two unanswered questions that may affect how I view this discussion:
1. Did Apple negotiate too much of a one-sided contract with the carriers?
2. Factoring in the contract with Apple, can it be shown that the carriers truly cannot offer better plans and still make selling iPhones a worthwhile endeavor (to the carriers)?
EVP
PS Matti - I understand what you're saying; this place ranks very low on my list of places I use for gathering information on financial decisions. Still, it does offer insight on some relevent issues and is usually a fun sight to read/troll. Thanks for the advice.