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0dev said:
No we won't. You just need to turn down the setting to allow all apps.

Yes, in Mountain Lion. But I was saying that Apple will silently phase that out in the next release.

Then stop using macs now before they "git ya" you are clearly more savvy then the rest of us.
 
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

Where's the lock you're referring to? Because the screen shot shows a user preference panel. Looks like Apple is giving Mac users more choices not less.

I think you're getting down voted because your posts are full of misinformation and FUD.
 
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

Apple are merely adding default settings for installing and launching applications to protect the end user from installing and running malware. It's as simple as that. OS X is a desktop operating system and I don't think it'll ever be like iOS where only apps submitted and made available through the Mac App Store can only be installed and launched.

For god sake, people moan over things like this and it spreads the drama around. iOS is a mobile platform. OS X is not. Apple knows how much customer outrage they would get if they made OS X curated and an 'App Store-only' platform like iOS is. And they definitely likely don't even want to do that, anyway.

MacRumors staff really should be stopping people arguing on the forum. I can guarantee you many people don't come here because of immature people arguing on the forum over stupid things.
 
I guess only 1%.

Developers. And not only Mac developers, as Macs are extremely popular among Linux, enterprise, and even some Windows developers. That's more than 1%, and a very important percentage to Apple, or they would have to stop boasting about the (eventual) millions of apps in their App stores, many continuously updated for the lastest iGizmo.

But Gatekeper will be completely irrelevant to any dev who can download source and run configure, make, install... or the Xcode equivalent.
 

The real irony is that UAC (especially in Win7, where it has been smartened up quite a bit) is still more effective - because it is a system-level check, whereas "Gatekeeper" seems to be at the finder level only. (I haven't read all 5000 posts today about Gatekeeper, so please correct me if this is not true.)

Windows also remembers which files have been downloaded (it does this through a "resource fork" on the file), and may ask for additional confirmation when running a downloaded file. It's a simple matter to delete the "fork" if you don't want to be asked again.

"Gatekeeper" reminds me more of a resort my husband and I stayed at in Sulawesi, where there was a very substantial locking door (room key unlocked it) to get to our villa from the sidewalk. Enlarge the attachment to understand.... ;)
 

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Presumably Open Source projects will be able to get a certificate to sign the official builds by their build master.

A lot of people on here seem to assume that just because something is "open source" then you can trust any binary build out there. If you are installing unofficial builds of something like Firefox then you are potentially putting yourself at risk and the code signing would help protect users from potential abuses by unscrupulous people bundling malware with a special build of "firefox" for example.

It has been suggested several times that Apple will provide "free" certificates to developers outside of the mac app store so I don't see a problem here for the "open source" community here. I also suspect that individuals will be able to get their own keys or possibly even use a self-signed key to do a compile themselves that will only be trusted by their own account on their own on the machine it was signed on.
 
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0dev said:
Break out the tinfoil hat.;)

The system sounds reasonable - it allows the user to determine the level of risk with which they are comfortable.

Wait and see. Apple always phases this stuff in slowly. Look at Lion vs. Mountain Lion in terms of iOS like features and you'll see this in action. The same will happen here.

And again, if this is a Finder level restriction, it will not help security at all.

Since that is 99.98% of how all people start 99.999999% of all their apps it is still a huge security boost. It is absurd to think otherwise just as it is absurd to act like this is something more than it actually is.

These are the sorts of things that will make os x more appealing to most consumers. If you think apple is trying to trick you it would be stupid for you to continue to buy and use their products. If you actually believe your rhetoric then you should divest yourself of all apple products as quickly as possible.

I would never be a customer of a company I felt was trying to trick and deceive me unless I had no choice. You have plenty of choice so I suggest you take advantage of that and move along.

The rest of us ignorant lemmings will have to get along without you.

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jontech said:
********.

You may wanna go and check the Gatekeeper developer meaning again.

As much as a geek I am, I am probably gonna run the OS in Mac App Store only Gatekeeper mode and revert to Anywhere when I need to install some stuff on the web.

This is the best Apple can do for the very vast number of users. Caters to us geeks, caters to normal people and caters to those who don't know the **** they are doing.

This is unbelievably awesome.




On the contrary, this is evidence that Apple is NOT going to close the Mac. Things cannot be much more obvious for those who really wish to see without bias and hatred.

Short story for those interested:
Just a couple of days back, one of my friends referred to this concept in general and I was so blown away (shame I couldn't figure out myself). This also prevented Apple from changing the underlying UNIX system to an extent where they would revoke installation permissions from the user or admin or even the super-user. Maybe an additional private kernel model only used for app installations.

This is absolutely surreal. Best ****in feature ever. People don't realise this but this makes me believe that Apple is running for the geeks too. Long live Apple.

As an Apple fan and one who supports Mac's in IT, this ROCKS!

Yeah it is good. For most users it increases security.

Like most people here I am the one others ask for computer advice. I would advise anyone to just leave it so only signed apps work and never mess with it.

Anyone who didn't need that wouldnt be asking me for advice to start with... Overall the Mac has been secure but i appreciate apple being proactive. I don't want to spend a lot of time worrying about security and this does not inhibit my ability to use my computer as I want. It is 100% improvement.

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AppleScruff1 said:
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

Unfortunately they won't realize it until its too late.

Too late for what exactly. If they disallowed unsigned apps in 6 months it would only impact a fraction of a percent of users. In other words it would cause no harm to the usability or experience for almost everyone.

So let's say it goes that far? Nobody will actually care. Enjoy running a Linux desktop rofl lol lol

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GermanyChris said:
I think Apple is signaling at least me that it's time to start exploring other options. Sound like the walled garden is coming to mac. It matters verylittle that it's a toggle that you need to move the point of putting it there is control. It's been fun :mad:

The point of putting it there is security. Learn to view things from a larger perspective and not just how things impact only you.

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thunderclap said:
Good luck with Windows8....

Don't rule out Windows 8 yet. Windows 7 is a solid OS, and MS could potentially build a worthwhile update in 8. And, really, what are they doing that is different than Apple? They have their computer-based OS (Windows) and are slowly adding their phone OS into it the bridge the systems. Saying "Good luck with Windows 8" is like saying "Good luck with OS X 10.8".

Of course you just have to deal with the mish mash of hardware on a windows box and vastly inferior hardware and software integration.

The best machines to run windows 8 will be macs just like it has been for vista and windows 7.

Also don't forget the non existent support for windows and windows boxes.

I do wish those well who think apple is scamming then with os x. I would recommend apple hardware still with windows 8 but that seems to be an ethical conflict.

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coolspot18 said:
I remember how when the iphone app store came out and people would laugh at the notion that such a thing would ever come up for the mac line and flat out said it would be horrible to have a walled garden on the mac....then it happened and this is just slowly incrementing towards it entirely

It worked because apps were cheap - 99c for an excellent product.

Mac App store prices are same as retail... there's no incentive for me to purchase online when I can buy a sharable copy on physical media.

You can share mas products and the existence of your ownership does not expire due to flood, fire or theft.
 
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Of course you just have to deal with the mish mash of hardware on a windows box and vastly inferior hardware and software integration.

Also don't forget the non existent support for windows and windows boxes.
It sounds like you are talking about running Windows on a Mac.
 
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spazzcat said:
Because we'll all natually run to Windows 8..the same reasons exist to avoid that too..

Why is that always the default answer?

You have two real choices OSX or Windows. And before start about Linux, I use it daily, its not for the average user.

It is a horrible desktop os. I have used Linux since it existed and other unix variants before then and it is not a legitimate os for professionals on a desktop with a few exceptions. It does some things really well, a work or personal desktop is neither of them.

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dukebound85 said:
If it stays as it is now you dont have to care dude, just switch to "Anywhere" and install whatever you want..

Don't you get it? The default setting is setting the stage to killing that option off entirely.

That default setting is going to make the majority of developers not waste their time developing apps for a target audience they can't reach.

Then, when there are hardly any developers developing apps outside the MAS, that option is as good as gone

Who are these dumb developers who don't get certificates?

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Vulpinemac said:
Don't you get it? The default setting is setting the stage to killing that option off entirely.

That default setting is going to make the majority of developers not waste their time developing apps for a target audience they can't reach.

Then, when there are hardly any developers developing apps outside the MAS, that option is as good as gone

My only question here is: If that is true, why does iOS -- which is most certainly locked down by most accounts -- have an ever-growing app library? If it's working for iOS, why can't it work for the MAS?

Because that does not support the baseless paranoid sky is falling attitude some people have here. The reality is gatekeeper will improve the experience for almost more Mac users and make macs more appealing for non Mac users.

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polaris20 said:
It'll do office doc's just fine..

LibreOffice sucks compared to Office 2010/2011.

Gimp will do all the editing I need..

Photoshop is the industry standard, and yet there's no Linux version.

Miro will convert all the video files I need.

I don't edit movies..

and the rest I don't do

I don't really care what you do or don't do. I'm referring to the general user base, of which many do one of the things I mentioned.

If you're a hardcore Office user, then Libre/Open Office won't do. Believe me, I've tried, and they're not completely compatible, which is important in business and even education.

If you're into imaging, GIMP won't do.

FOSS does a great job of coming up with apps that get 80% there to their commercial counterparts. Unfortunately that's not close enough, for a lot of people. In case you haven't noticed, the Linux Desktop Revolution still hasn't happened.

I love Linux. Ubuntu is awesome (well, except Unity). But it doesn't fit the needs of the general, average desktop user.

I agree. I started using gimp hardcore but then I moved to photoshop and there is just no comparison.

Using Linux as a desktop requires too much time wasting to try and equal workflow on other oses. If you have a lot of time to waste fine but if you actually have work to do and want to get it done efficiently it is not a consideration. I use Linux for all sorts of things but not my work computer.

Also none of the various linuxes are even close to being consumer friendly. Linux actually has fallen behind in that race. 10-12 years ago was probably as close as Linux ever got to being close to the consumer oses. It is not a legitimate option for almost all computer users these days.

It is weird people are freaking out about this NOW. Who cares what apple does in five years? How does that impact what you do now? We know that for at LEAST the next 18 months none of these doomsday scenarios were even something to think about. People are getting worked up about nothing, even if their worst nightmares came true it would not impact anyone for several years. In computer time that is forever.

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hkenneth said:
Anti-Apple fanboy: Apple is evil!
Sane Person: Why?
Anti-Apple fanboy: Because they might do something bad in the future!
Sane Person: Are they doing it now?
Anti-Apple fanboy: No. But they will!
Sane Person: Ok. so, can't you just hate them if they actually do it in the future?
Anti-Apple fanboy: No. I have to always hate Apple. And I'll act like they already do now what I suspect them to do in the future. And I'll tell everyone that Apple does it now!
Sane Person: *face-palm*. Oh, man.

So I guess you also support SOPA then. Bless you.

Can't take anyone seriously who compared this to SOPA as it belies a fundamental lack of understanding about anything for either issue.

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zephonic said:
Security is important, but this a solution in search of a problem. How much malware was out there, really?

I'm beginning to like Apple less and less.

Best wait until you get burgled to put locks on the doors.
 
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Except that's NOT the default, at least not in this initial beta release.



The only thing that needs to be done to fix that is for Office to get an update so that it's signed with a certificate. Shouldn't be a problem since the OS release is months away. One thing that does bring up is that many apps probably will get updates to add certificates - it would be nice if Gatekeeper had some sort of option with unsigned apps to check and see if that app has an update.

How exactly do you expect microsoft to update boxed copies sold in a store that are already there?
 
It does some things really well, a work or personal desktop is neither of them.

If it doesn't work as a personal or work desktop, then what exactly does it do really well? Screensavers?

Because that does not support the baseless paranoid sky is falling attitude some people have here. The reality is gatekeeper will improve the experience for almost more Mac users and make macs more appealing for non Mac users.

You know, I don't have a problem with the gatekeeper. As long as you can turn it off, it's really a non issue to me. And yes, it will help on the security front, specially for those who aren't as tech savvy as (I assume) most of us are here. I'll use the MAS if and when I get a Mac, but I'll also go outside of it if I want to install something like ScummVM or an emulator. Programs that have no chance of landing on the app store.

The only thing I find goofy about it and the sandboxing thing is how all these people who claimed malware was a nonissue on OSX are suddenly screaming that these new additions are of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE! It just...just...boggles my mind that a whole group of people could go from complete dismissal of the subject, to acting like the situation is sitting at DEFCON 2, and it's only a matter of time before the horrors are upon us all.

It's just weird.

Using Linux as a desktop requires too much time wasting to try and equal workflow on other oses. If you have a lot of time to waste fine but if you actually have work to do and want to get it done efficiently it is not a consideration. I use Linux for all sorts of things but not my work computer.

What? No. Linux doesn't have quite as smooth of an out-of-the-box experience as OSX, but it isn't a constant fight setting it up. You spend a couple of hours tweaking it after the initial install, and you're good to go for about forever.

Also none of the various linuxes are even close to being consumer friendly. Linux actually has fallen behind in that race. 10-12 years ago was probably as close as Linux ever got to being close to the consumer oses. It is not a legitimate option for almost all computer users these days.

Do wuuuhhhh? Are you saying Linux was MORE user friendly 10-12 years ago? Back then, you had to manually install each and every part of the OS you wanted to use from the terminal, and wait 15 hours for it to compile. Now? For the more consumer oriented Linux distros, it's click 4 buttons and get a snack. How can you actually suggest otherwise?

The only thing wrong with Linux these days is the lack of high end commercial apps. A big problem, admittedly. But if they were to suddenly start showing up tomorrow, I guarantee you'd have whole slews of pro shops doing all their work on it, and doing it as easily as they do on their Macs.

It is weird people are freaking out about this NOW. Who cares what apple does in five years? How does that impact what you do now? We know that for at LEAST the next 18 months none of these doomsday scenarios were even something to think about. People are getting worked up about nothing, even if their worst nightmares came true it would not impact anyone for several years. In computer time that is forever.

It's not so much freaking out and being paranoid so much as it is extrapolating 30 years of Apple history. And, you know, if the worst case scenario does come to pass, it really won't bother all that many people. There will be a few that are left out. People who want to do clever things with their machines, like write drivers for a 3D printer they built in their basement. People wanting to write emulators. People wanting to take advantage of all the excess horsepower modern computers provide to do something grand. Who knows what they'll do. They haven't thought of it yet.

These are things that won't be possible if Apple implements an sandboxed App Store only approach, and only allows certified software to run on your...er...I mean their computer. But they're a minority though, right? What does it matter if these clever people are left out? So long as the vast majority able to use their word processors in peace, then it's not a problem. That's the price you pay for a well designed, secure OS, right?

Yeah. And all these smart people who would otherwise use their Macs to do great things will jump ship and run to an OS that hasn't gimped its potential and their potential for the sake of the lowest common denominator.

Is this really what you want?
 
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Apple is now all about money, no innovations after Steve

Just look at this graph

http://www.theiphonespot.net/wp-cont...-q405-q211.png

Macs and software are only small part of their revenue now. They definitely plan to increase it ALOT , that's what GateKeeper means. And all of you will be paying and paying.

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For sure that's not about security, if that was for security they could at least make it not so restrictive (as a part of parental controls for example). Windows XP had a similar feature for years, and it did not help against viruses at all. Moreover, don't you think it's strange that yesterday they claimed "Mac os X is completely virus free" and then next day they ban ALL third party apps "to protect you". When governments or corporations want to cut your freedom - they're always talking about security. Most of masses are only glad to have their freedom cut.
Also don't you think if there was no AppStore, they would even bother with this GateKeeper? No!
The only (only!) reason they push it is to force developers (and users) to use their AppStore. And that was very predictable. First it hits alternative online distributors and resellers, and eventually it will hit developers - cause the monopoly is always bad. That's definitely anti-competitive behaviour and people must understand - it won't be good for them in a long term. Eventually developers won't own their apps, and Apple will own everything! They will be able to change their rules, commissions etc and there will be no alternative! That is what they want! That is so old practice! But in 1990th there were so many court cases against Microsoft! What now?

Developers should complain and protest about banning their non-signed apps by default, as it's a way to a digital slavery! It's so obvious in the USA, are you still believe in any security and good thoughts? That's a BS! That's all about money and greed! Now 30% and you cannot even mention a competing OS in your app, what next? Isn't that the dictatorship the Unites States were always fighting with? It IS! The freedom is in danger again and again!
That the same as SOPA and PIPA - it results in the same freedom loss!
Don't be so stupid to think it's about security!
 
The point of putting it there is security. Learn to view things from a larger perspective and not just how things impact only you.

Like I said in the first couple posts, use what YOU like I am completely indifferent. This will make ME re-think MY options. I am viewing this from a larger perspective this is the start of brining Macs in the "walled garden." The walled garden is great for my phone, but I don't want it on my desktop.

Photoshop vs. Gimp I said it was enough for ME..

Are you getting that I have yet to refer to other people. Linux suited me just fine before OSX and it's gotten substantially better in the last 5-6 years. I can and will use it again and it will suit ME just fine again.
 
The only thing I find goofy about it and the sandboxing thing is how all these people who claimed malware was a nonissue on OSX are suddenly screaming that these new additions are of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE! It just...just...boggles my mind that a whole group of people could go from complete dismissal of the subject, to acting like the situation is sitting at DEFCON 2, and it's only a matter of time before the horrors are upon us all.

It's just weird.

I already asked you this but you didn't answer, so I'll try again.
Would you prefer them to wait to when it is too late?
Will you then complain that they should have worked on it earlier?

And anyway you are assigning what some extremists say to "a whole group". Sounds like strawman.

These are things that won't be possible if Apple implements an sandboxed App Store only approach, and only allows certified software to run on your...er...I mean their computer. But they're a minority though, right? What does it matter if these clever people are left out? So long as the vast majority able to use their word processors in peace, then it's not a problem. That's the price you pay for a well designed, secure OS, right?

I'll agree with you, absolutely, when that happens. IF that happens. Which seems absurdly evil / simpleminded for a company which is doing a lot of things right.

But up to now they are not doing what you say. See again Coda's developers reports.
 
The possible depth of such a play as GateKeeper is, on the surface, as long as its ALWAYS an option, is imo not bad for the average/casual users. Though it could perhaps be seen in different terms if you're familiar with what MS is doing with UEFI & Win8 certification requirements(not counting the pushing of the metro(aka ios for windows) interface over explorer in Win8, hello ios and metro on the desktop :p). A DualBoot Windows/Linux PC or tablet could become a thing of the past when MS implements UEFI(at least for those less hack savvy users). Your tablet/desktop/laptop, in such an environment will ONLY boot the os that is allowed by the UEFI, and thus potentially only run the apps that have have been signed by approved manufactures/devs of that particular company(MS or Apple perhaps).

Yes, with time, if someone "somehow" got a key from a manufacturer, or (of course) found a workaround(uefi will potentially be broken quickly by the linux community), users with this knowledge/capability could install linux on their Win8 computer/tablet/etc. There is a potential effort to lockdown desktop/laptop/notebook/tablet OS's coming with UEFI; IMO its a totally different thing if you're using UEFI yourself to sign your own code to prevent unauthorized apps from running, but thats the USER having such control, not the manufacturer and OS company, as is the case with MS and UEFI.

again, imo this looks like it will nicely suit most of apple's casual/consumer base, even if it becomes a requirement. But I bring this up to keep in mind, if tech like UEFI and Gatekeeper were to, um, "merge" in some form, some day ;-).

FYI, If you aren't familiair with UEFI, and the possibility of something similar coming to certain other OS's, in combination with things like defender and gatekeeper, then there might be some news out there worth exploring. Its all conjecture, but perhaps consider the trajectory for possibilities.

http://www.softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/275239,will-windows-8-really-block-linux-installs.aspx
 
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But I bring this up to keep in mind, if tech like UEFI and Gatekeeper were to, um, "merge" in some form, some day ;-).

But the devil is in the details, and the details point in different directions for Apple and for Microsoft. Apple seems to be striking a good compromise (even though naysayers are already predicting it'll be a slippery slope of bait-and-switch). Microsoft is being old-school Microsoft, or should we say, plain evil, what with mandating single, authenticated boot in ARM devices for certification. Exactly what the Android people have been fighting against.

So, what I mean is: luckily, there seems no basis to mix UEFI with Gatekeeper.

(but then again, one could also compare a certified Win8 ARM device with an iOS device... even though Microsoft is aiming for a more explicit/secure lock)
 
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What will happen to Steam then?

Or they'll add it to the Mac App Store.

I really hope it doesn't mess up with my copies of iLife and iWork which I bought boxed.
 
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Presumably Open Source projects will be able to get a certificate to sign the official builds by their build master.

Official builds by build masters does not fix issues with licensing for end-user built software. Some licenses require that all scripts/configurations be shipped with the source in order to get a working executable if you provide a binary. Thus, you can't require code-signing which would require the end-user to get a certificate, and the developer can't distribute his own certificate for end-users to sign with.

The option "Anywhere" remains the only measure acceptable for open source projects under these licenses.

----------

Do wuuuhhhh? Are you saying Linux was MORE user friendly 10-12 years ago? Back then, you had to manually install each and every part of the OS you wanted to use from the terminal, and wait 15 hours for it to compile.

What ? 12 years ago brings us to around 2000. Circa 2000, the big distros like SuSE, RedHat, Mandrake had moved to X11 based installers and had been shipping binary packages for close to 5 years already.

Don't exagerate. But yes, Ubuntu came a long way in those last 12 years and it's frankly so easy to install nowadays it's a non-issue.

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The point of putting it there is security.

That's what they tell you. "Think of the children" never leads to anything good for the actual children though.
 
"He who trades freedom for security deserve neither".. and all that

The great thing is, you are not trading anything. You are given the option. (So you are so free that you can choose how free you want to be! ;P )

Now, if only they did the same in iOS...
(funnily enough, after my experience with jailbreaking, I don't know if I would take advantage of the "run anything" option)
 
The great thing is, you are not trading anything. You are given the option. (So you are so free that you can choose how free you want to be! ;P )

Now, if only they did the same in iOS...
(funnily enough, after my experience with jailbreaking, I don't know if I would take advantage of the "run anything" option)

For now there is an option..

My concern isn't now, it's the direction this signals. Daddy Apple knows better than me what I want on MY computer. It's a signal to developers that they better tow the Apple line or their products won't run. It has potential to secure a future revenue stream by making programs only avalable on the app store. This is EXACTLY what Stallman and company were trying to prevent.

If it works for you GREAT, but I don't like this turn of events. Maybe if people complain enough we can get this changed it has happened before.

Because you wouln't take advantage of the run anything option doesn't mean it should be taken away from me..

Computers give free access to information and communication once you remove free they are pointless. I've said many times here that my heart will always be with the open source community and this is exactly why.
 
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For now there is an option..

My concern isn't now, it's the direction this signals.

Stressing about what might or might not happen is just something no one needs in their lives though. For now, Gatekeeper is ok (it would be better with a more sensible default of being turned off and being opt-in, maybe with a screen in the initial setup).
 
For now there is an option..

My concern isn't now, it's the direction this signals.

What signals exactly? The fact that you can choose, and the fact that you can get a signing certificate free of charge?
To me it sounds very good indeed.

Daddy Apple knows better than me what I want on MY computer. It's a signal to developers that they better tow the Apple line or their products won't run.

Well, Panic's developers also beg to differ with you.

Because you wouln't take advantage of the run anything option doesn't mean it should be taken away from me..

I said I would like it, even though I would (probably) be weary of it.

Computers give free access to information and communication once you remove free they are pointless.

But the whole point is that it is not being removed! It's a pretty good compromise. You want free? You can. Full stop.

I've said many times here that my heart will always be with the open source community and this is exactly why.

If your heart is in the open source community, maybe your money and your time should be there too, with Linux and/or the BSDs. And I am NOT being sarcastic.
 
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