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spazzcat

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2007
3,679
4,767
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

Because they are not locking it down. I see this going the other way allowing stuff to be installed on iOS without j/b or going through the app store...
 

Demigod Mac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
836
280
One important note is this will make Macs an even more unattractive target for cybercriminals.

* Gatekeeper is enabled by DEFAULT, most users won't and don't know how to change default settings

* Power-users who disable Gatekeeper are probably already cognizant about malware and won't likely be tricked into downloading it

Ergo, this makes the potential target area for malware attacks on Mac even smaller than it is now. It simply won't be worth the investment for cybercriminals to go after Macs.

Gatekeeper is a primary deterrent against malware like MacDefender. Remember how the cybercriminals would release a new variant immediately after Apple added the last one to the Xprotect blacklist? Gatekeeper nixes that strategy. Gatekeeper + Xprotect makes Macs damn near invulnerable to malware when you think about it, and this even takes the "dumb user" factor into account.

Smart move, Apple.
 

GermanyChris

macrumors 601
Jul 3, 2011
4,185
5
Here
I think Apple is signaling at least me that it's time to start exploring other options. Sound like the walled garden is coming to mac. It matters verylittle that it's a toggle that you need to move the point of putting it there is control. It's been fun :mad:
 

spazzcat

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2007
3,679
4,767
Was easy to see this coming when they introduced the app store for Mac. Step by step increasing their control and limiting our freedom. For now they gives us an option, next time that option will be gone.

Microsoft will of course copy this. We'll end up with totally locked down OS's in the future.

No one would upgrade if they did this...There is way too much software outside of the App store.
 

dethmaShine

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2010
1,697
0
Into the lungs of Hell
Classic is gone. Rosetta is gone.

Unsigned apps are just one more legacy technology.

I don't understand. Are we still living in the past? Are you dwelling on the fact that 'Classic' is gone? Unbelievable.

I can understand some users who don't have Rosetta anymore but its up to developers to align with Apple/Microsoft to release updates to their product and move to newer technologies. I can understand the users being pissed about this but Apple gave ample to time to all developers requiring Rosetta to upping their apps and implementations.

You could have said Spaces - I would have understood but those are two absolutely redundant things for more than 95% of the users.
 
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bbeagle

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2010
3,541
2,981
Buffalo, NY
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

You do realize that this is the way computers in general are going, and the way MOST people want it because it is GOOD for 99% of users, not the 1% of us (including me) who develop code and want to put whatever we want on our machines.

Cars are the same way - they're becoming more and more locked down. You need to modify the computer code now, if you want to do something like alter the timing of your engine. More people like cars that work in closed systems than the 1% who like to tweak cars.

Microsoft is doing the same thing too. If you really need to tweak whatever you want to, learn Unix and use the command line. Mac _is_ unix, and you can do whatever you want on the command line, unlike Windows which you cannot. Or just leave for the Unix world. Windows is not where you want to go.
 

spazzcat

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2007
3,679
4,767
I think Apple is signaling at least me that it's time to start exploring other options. Sound like the walled garden is coming to mac. It matters verylittle that it's a toggle that you need to move the point of putting it there is control. It's been fun :mad:

Good luck with Windows8....
 

zweigand

macrumors 6502a
Oct 19, 2003
626
89
And again, if this is a Finder level restriction, it will not help security at all.
Uh, yeah it will. If they find a signed app that is doing something malicious all they have to do is flag it. How does that not solve the problem? It will stop trojans before they can spread wildly.
 

Winni

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,207
1,196
Germany.
This is reasonable. No I don't like the idea of having a Mac locked down to just the App Store but the fact that Apple is implementing a system leads me to think they will keep it for sometime.

and I like the notion of devs having to sign their apps - TBH any legitimate dev already has to use XCode anyways.

There are thousands of applications out there that were written in Realbasic, BlitzMax, Unity, Mono/C#, Java and other programming languages, frameworks and tool sets and the authors of those applications are certainly very legitimate developers who for good reasons did not want to use the abominations that Xcode and Objective-C are.
 

thunderclap

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2003
641
1
No one would upgrade if they did this...There is way too much software outside of the App store.

I disagree. Maybe for those of us who are computer literate, but Apple is banking on new users who don't want to have to think. It may be unpopular for a couple years, but when people are forced to use OS 10.9 or 10.10 or 11.0 (whatever they call the version where they close downloading apps outside of the store) people will accept defeat. Apple knows this.
 

ghall

macrumors 68040
Jun 27, 2006
3,771
1
Rhode Island
Was easy to see this coming when they introduced the app store for Mac. Step by step increasing their control and limiting our freedom. For now they gives us an option, next time that option will be gone.

Microsoft will of course copy this. We'll end up with totally locked down OS's in the future.

If anything this is a sign Apple releases that they can't close the Mac platform. If they were taking steps to close it, they wouldn't give you a choice, they would just say "hey look, you can only run apps from the App Store and apps that have a developer ID."

Apple isn't stupid.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
Well we all knew this was coming. After Mountain Lion we'll have to jailbreak to run apps from outside the App Store.

First app you need to download is Reading for Dummies. Because if you had read the article you would know that this is NOT the case.

You can choose to open up your computer to outside and even unsigned apps and get whatever you want. If you feel that you are smart enough to handle that. But the default is the most secure setting since so many folks buying Macs now are not that smart and they don't get that you shouldn't download apps from just anywhere even if it claims it's just Flash Player.

And even with the whole 'signed' issue they will give a certificate to anyone and do nothing unless they track back that you are passing around malware and then they will put you on the black list so even with a certificate in the app it won't open until the user overrides the system. Nothing about the type of apps etc and your paranoia isn't proof that they ever will do it .
 

jdechko

macrumors 601
Jul 1, 2004
4,230
325
Hopefully this is what gets implemented instead of sandboxing. Instead of limiting what an app can do, allow the app to function as it needs to function, and if the dev screws up, revoke the cert until they fix it.

This is a good thing for Apple and the user, and it's not much different from the "Mac OS X cannot determine where this program came from. Do you want to run it anyway?" The big difference from the user's perspective is that now it's easier to determine the trustworthiness of the downloaded app.
 

i.mac

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2007
996
247
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

If a person does not like what apple does, then that person can use the inealable right to chose whatever OS it wants, be it windows or any one of the freely available (and very good) Linux flavors...

What, not geek enough to use Linux instead? Then use windows, stop the bs and be happy for others... Good grief.
 
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cgc

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2003
718
23
Utah
Well until Apple actually does implement such practices, you are essentially guessing ?

How dare anyone make guesses on MacRumors. I doubt this is anything other than a good measure to help protect users with a nice side effect of possibly boosting AppStore use.

I love the AppStore but it needs work to help sift through the files. Search for something and it's all uncategoried in a big honking list...I want sort by rating, sort by pricing, sort by license, sort by vendor, etc.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
I for one, welcome our new Gatekeeper overlord.

As long as it doesn't mess with my...acquired...Photoshop :p

Gatekeeper will allow end users to distinguish between an original unmodified illegal copy of Photoshop, and an illegal copy of Photoshop manipulated by some nefarious hacker, or a Trojan pretending to be Photoshop. (I think there was a price for first use of "nefarious" ?) :D

I don't think it can distinguish between legal and illegal copies. Of course, App Store apps _have_ that feature.
 

thunderclap

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2003
641
1
Good luck with Windows8....

Don't rule out Windows 8 yet. Windows 7 is a solid OS, and MS could potentially build a worthwhile update in 8. And, really, what are they doing that is different than Apple? They have their computer-based OS (Windows) and are slowly adding their phone OS into it the bridge the systems. Saying "Good luck with Windows 8" is like saying "Good luck with OS X 10.8".
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
This is the best Apple can do for the very vast number of users. Caters to us geeks, caters to normal people and caters to those who don't know the **** they are doing.


Yep. folks like my grandfather who insisted on getting a computer even though he's basically a tech moron will be protected and those of us that don't need it can turn it off.
 

0dev

macrumors 68040
Dec 22, 2009
3,947
24
127.0.0.1
You do realize that this is the way computers in general are going, and the way MOST people want it because it is GOOD for 99% of users, not the 1% of us (including me) who develop code and want to put whatever we want on our machines.

How is it good then?

Cars are the same way - they're becoming more and more locked down. You need to modify the computer code now, if you want to do something like alter the timing of your engine. More people like cars that work in closed systems than the 1% who like to tweak cars.

Cars are more locked down so the car companies are able to rip customers off with expensive parts and labour. If a car owner can tweak a car themselves, it loses engineers money, so they make it harder. Same with Apple - they want all software to be purchased through the App Store so they get their cut.

Microsoft is doing the same thing too. If you really need to tweak whatever you want to, learn Unix and use the command line. Mac _is_ unix, and you can do whatever you want on the command line, unlike Windows which you cannot. Or just leave for the Unix world. Windows is not where you want to go.

I may very well switch to Linux if Apple keeps going down this road.

Uh, yeah it will. If they find a signed app that is doing something malicious all they have to do is flag it. How does that not solve the problem? It will stop trojans before they can spread wildly.

If you can write a malicious app, you can make it get around a simple Finder-level check. This will only be effective for security if it's at system level.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
I'd be interested at what level the restrictions are implemented. Are command line and daemons affected too? Will certain bloat simple utilities (macports?) if they have to carry certificates.

Nothing has to have a certificate. But if you as a user has 'app store and signed apps only' turned on, you'll have to authorize the app (likely with your admin password) to get it to open. Potentially every time.

Windows does this also with many apps, especially if they were downloaded from the web.
 

Winni

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,207
1,196
Germany.

Stella

macrumors G3
Apr 21, 2003
8,838
6,339
Canada
No one would upgrade if they did this...There is way too much software outside of the App store.

There's quite a lot of people who will be 'scared' into thinking that its safe only to download MAS software... there's others who think MAS is virtually the only way to obtain 3rd party software, and other's who don't care.

Many iOS users don't care that they are locked in, and that doesn't stop iOS device sales.

Apple would still get plenty of sales of OSX was totally locked down, that is for certain.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
816
Los Angeles, CA
It's so sad everyone is seeing this as a good thing and is downvoting those who say otherwise. I guess that's why Apple can get away with locking down Macs so much.

sorry but folks are downrating you because you didn't bother to read the article and you are knee jerking against the notion of a company with an exploding user base trying to protect them with additional security that you as a self proclaimed know it all can turn off using the very setting they show in the screen caps.

If you had read the article you would see that developers aren't required to only sell in the MAS or even sign up for a certificate if they don't want to. So the system isn't any more closed than it was before
 

0dev

macrumors 68040
Dec 22, 2009
3,947
24
127.0.0.1
You're absolutely right. Windows is not the place to go back to and OS X is no longer a place to stay.

The good thing is that there are great alternatives available that even run on Apple hardware:

http://www.ubuntu.com
http://fedoraproject.org
http://linuxmint.com
http://debian.org
http://www.freebsd.org

There's no real reason left to stay in the Walled Garden.

I have a Debian box which I've quite warmed to. I'd have to use WINE to run iTunes but other than that I shouldn't have much problem switching to it for my main computer. No stupid restrictions either :D
 
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