OS X Tiger on a 603/604 CPU

[weckart]

When I finally get around to installing Leopard, I'm going to have to make a tough decision about whether I want USB/FW or 10/100 ethernet, as I only have one expansion slot left to play with. I'm inclined to think internet sharing with another computer over FW would be the way to go.

I have no idea whether this works with any PPC Mac as those are VIA chips onboard but things like this do exist surprisingly enough

http://inlandproduct.com/pciusb202port2port1394afirewirerj-45ethernetcombocard.aspx

Maybe someone has had experience of something a bit cheaper than Sonnet/Macally that also is Mac compatible.

 

[mikiotty]

I have no idea whether this works with any PPC Mac as those are VIA chips onboard but things like this do exist surprisingly enough

http://inlandproduct.com/pciusb202port2port1394afirewirerj-45ethernetcombocard.aspx

Maybe someone has had experience of something a bit cheaper than Sonnet/Macally that also is Mac compatible.

I have experience with a particular USB 2.0 card that has the VIA chipset. Can't remember the model (was bought years ago for my dad's QuickSilver), but it works perfectly in every PCI Mac I have (QuickSilver 2001, MDD FW800, and worked in the G5 as well) without any issue. Sleep works perfectly even with devices attached and compatibility is excellent with Tiger and Leopard. Haven't tried OS 9 though.

Here is the report from System Profiler:

USB Bus:

Host Controller Location: Expansion Slot
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBUHCI
PCI Device ID: 0x3038
PCI Revision ID: 0x0062
PCI Vendor ID: 0x1106
Bus Number: 0x15

 

[weckart]

t

I have experience with a particular USB 2.0 card that has the VIA chipset.

I also have experience with VIA chipsets and they are hit and miss. The 6307 FW chip works with OSX but the 6306 doesn't, for example. I was just marvelling that such a combo card even exists.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Just going to say that I tried this with leopard 10.5.8 I Patched the same file in the same place like tiger and I got the kernel to compile and with some help from @bunnspecial and his 900Mhz G3 iBook G3 I was able to test the kernel (I wanted to test it on a G3 mac that used the MacRISC2 platform expert) I was able to test the kernel on a G3 and well sadly it hangs in the same place the stock kernel does it will start to boot then Just after it mounts root device (aka the HDD its booting from) it just hangs... it will just sit there no kernel panic or anything but it does not get any farther so i'm not sure whats happening exactly (I would think if it was trying to do something with altivec it would show something in verbose mode...) maybe @Intell can shine some light on whats going on heh (me and ben did try quite a few things to get it to boot we went as far as trying to spoof the CPU as a G4 in open firmware but sadly it still hung in the same place)

 

[Intell]

What does it stop at in verbose boot? Are there any lines about not finding the platform support drivers?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Picture incoming (and yeah I know about the platform driver thing its why i was looking for a G3 with the MacRISC2PE since leopard has built in drivers for it since its used on some G4s) this is where it hangs (in my emulated G3 beige when i set the CPU to a G3 it also hangs here more on the emulated G3 beige in my other post about leopard in qemu) (this is bens machine)

 

[Intell]

I think the problem is with the "waiting on" lines. It seems the Leopard doesn't like how the root device is setup. Have you tried pressing Option at boot and then selecting the Leopard drive/partition?

 

[LightBulbFun]

the thing is tho I have had that problem on other things before and it says still waiting for root device after a while... (also on the iBook it says got boot device) so I doubt its a HDD problem (plus like I said on my emulated G3 beige where i got leopard booting on it with a G4 CPU when i set the CPU to a G3 it hangs in the same place) BTW the iBook is booting from another G4 mac in TDM over Firewire

 

[bunnspecial]

Back to LBF's original Tiger kernel-

I booted it on my 9600/200MP and interestingly enough OS X is only aware of one of the processors being present. OS 9 does see both, although as is widely known only uses one on the OS level.

 

[bunnspecial]

And, thanks to some more hard work from LBF, I now have Leopard running well on my G4-upgraded B&W. It took a little bit of extra work to enable QE on the Radeon 7000(which made a big difference) but otherwise is doing well.

Now I just need to dig out the FX5200 I have in a Yikes! and put it in this system to really make Leopard sing.

 

[AphoticD]

This may be 2 years old now, but I just wanted to commend you guys on an awesome thread. Well done on your achievements and confirmation that Tiger can saunter along on a 604.

Very cool

 

[weckart]

Well, I tried this on my PB3400c but fell at the final hurdle. Prepped everything on a TiBook and confirmed that LBF's kernel was up and running before installing the HDD in my PB. Unfortunately, the RAM proved a stumbling block for XPostFacto. I whipped out the 128MB RAM card from my Kanga and noted it was a Kingston 3400-128 module. Great, since, unlike Apple, Kingston made some modules that would work on both Kangas and 3400s. However, my PB would only see 64MB of it, which is no better than before and not enough for Tiger.

Unless anyone has any ideas, I am going to have to put this on hold until I can find a working 128MB card for the 3400c.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Well, I tried this on my PB3400c but fell at the final hurdle. Prepped everything on a TiBook and confirmed that LBF's kernel was up and running before installing the HDD in my PB. Unfortunately, the RAM proved a stumbling block for XPostFacto. I whipped out the 128MB RAM card from my Kanga and noted it was a Kingston 3400-128 module. Great, since, unlike Apple, Kingston made some modules that would work on both Kangas and 3400s. However, my PB would only see 64MB of it, which is no better than before and not enough for Tiger.

Unless anyone has any ideas, I am going to have to put this on hold until I can find a working 128MB card for the 3400c.

I had the same issue when trying the 64MB RAM card from my kanga in one of my 3400c,s it shows up as 32MB, the Kanga and 3400c did have some very suitable differences when it came to RAM (the main thing being the faster bus speed on the Kanga) I do know that some ram cards actually have a resistor or so that you can move that choses between Kanga compatibility or 3400c compatibility. (in fact my 64MB kanga card is etched in the PCB with "3400c-128" and is also by kingston but has half the ram chips missing for 64MB)

you could put the HDD into the Kanga should boot up there at least also keep in mind being an OWR ATA machine make sure OS X is in the first 8GB of the drive

 

[bunnspecial]

As a bit of a long term update-I mentioned in my last post that my 8600 was unstable with the G4 in Tiger. Truth be told, it was unstable period, but it showed up more so in Tiger.

Like many folks, I was running a mis-match of assorted RAM in the system. The relatively scarcity of high capacity modules along with the number of slots(8 in the 8500/8600, 12 in the 9500/9600) makes this something that I think is actually fairly common for a lot of folks using these systems.

I broke down and bought an(undisclosed number) of 128mb modules-enough to max out both my 8600 and 9600. With 8 matched sticks, the 8600 is rock-solid with the G4 in Tiger. It's also quite perky.

1.5gb makes a nice difference in how the 9600(still 200MP) performs in Tiger also.

Maybe I'll install Leopard one of these days

 

[weckart]

you could put the HDD into the Kanga should boot up there at least also keep in mind being an OWR ATA machine make sure OS X is in the first 8GB of the drive

I'm not speaking to my Kanga at the moment. Xpostfacto doesn't work on it. It just hangs trying to either boot a Jaguar CD or a preinstalled Jaguar volume. I tried Panther - same thing. Even OS9helper doesnt work - I just get a bomb/restart dialog box when booting up 9.2.1. The Kanga can go back into storage and think about what it has done.

I do have a 6500 currently running BeOS buried under a heap of other Macs and PCs. It really needs stripping down and cleaning as it is a bit noisy but it isn't the easy to access construction that the 8xxx and 9xxx series were. I might haul that out in the winter as a project.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I have found with the Kanga after setting Open Firmware NVRAM patches/variables and rebooting, you have to hold down cmd option PR and let it reboot once then it will boot into OS X, if you dont do this, BootX (OS Xs boot loader) will crash part way through loading (you can see this if you hold cmd v down at the right moment it will boot BootX its self in verbose mode). these OWR macs can be quite fun when you start futzing around in OpenFirmware

you own another 603 PCI Mac?! Awesome its been 2 years and i still dont know how my kernel functions on a 603 CPU LOL, alternatively if you dont want the 6500 (or a 9600 for that matter) I am very much interested in it

 

[weckart]

you own another 603 PCI Mac?! Awesome its been 2 years and i still dont know how my kernel functions on a 603 CPU LOL, alternatively if you dont want the 6500 (or a 9600 for that matter) I am very much interested in it

It isn't easily accessible at the moment, with a ton of stuff in its way. Having to cram all our worldly goods in the loft at the moment as we are redecorating/replastering but I'll drag it out at some stage. I have no idea how much RAM it has so I might need to take a trip to eBay in any case.

I do have a non-booting 8600 that would be easier to work with than the 6500. Arrived DOA. That taught me to collect big iron and not rely on the delicateness of couriers. I wonder if that would work with a 603e? If I can get the logic board to chime, that is.

As for the Kanga, doesn't CmdOPR clear the XPostFacto strings passed to NVRAM?

 

[LightBulbFun]

It isn't easily accessible at the moment, with a ton of stuff in its way. Having to cram all our worldly goods in the loft at the moment as we are redecorating/replastering but I'll drag it out at some stage. I have no idea how much RAM it has so I might need to take a trip to eBay in any case.

I do have a non-booting 8600 that would be easier to work with than the 6500. Arrived DOA. That taught me to collect big iron and not rely on the delicateness of couriers. I wonder if that would work with a 603e? If I can get the logic board to chime, that is.

As for the Kanga, doesn't CmdOPR clear the XPostFacto strings passed to NVRAM?

6500 has 2 RAM slots, 128MB max 2 64MB sticks, 128MB sticks will work just up at half capacity, theres a bunch on ebay last i checked

what does the 8600 do? Power up fans spin but no chime or? might be worth just reseating everything. As far as i know theres no 603 CPU for any of the PowerSurge macs. but Tiger should run on the 604 it has

in regards to the kanga, it will clear it if you keep holding down cmd option PR but if you do it just once then let it boot, it wont clear those settings interestingly enough.

 

[weckart]

what does the 8600 do? Power up fans spin but no chime or? might be worth just reseating everything. As far as i know theres no 603 CPU for any of the PowerSurge macs. but Tiger should run on the 604 it has

in regards to the kanga, it will clear it if you keep holding down cmd option PR but if you do it just once then let it boot, it wont clear those settings interestingly enough.

Exactly that. I have tried everything. Stripped everything down to the board. Tried VRAM and RAM individually. No go. Either something fried or a trace broke en route. It was shipped with the CPU card slotted in, which might have bent the logic board under its own weight whilst being moved around. I am all out of ideas right now.

How did you twig that about the Kanga and do you need to do that on each restart?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Exactly that. I have tried everything. Stripped everything down to the board. Tried VRAM and RAM individually. No go. Either something fried or a trace broke en route. It was shipped with the CPU card slotted in, which might have bent the logic board under its own weight whilst being moved around. I am all out of ideas right now.

How did you twig that about the Kanga and do you need to do that on each restart?

in regards to the 8600 if you power up with no ram do you get a death chime? you should get one with no ram installed, if your not then its most likely something low level, do you have another PSU on hand? also there might be a cuda reset switch on the mother board have you tried jabbing that a couple times? I have also seen your symptoms caused by a Dead CPU card however this was on a PowerMac G4 Quicksilver *cough* @comda *cough*

in regards to the kanga, you dont have to do it ever restart, usually i can reboot/boot the thing a few times before I have to "reset" the PRAM again. is your Kanga booting OS X now?

as to how I figured it out, just comes from a LOT of experience fixing/messing with my and other users Macs (granted most people dont like it when I give them a nice long command to punch into OpenFirmware only for them to make a typo and have to do it all over again ) in the case of the Kanga, I saw it was hanging at the Apple logo, so I booted the thing in verbose mode saw that BootX was crashing out back to Open firmware, having experienced things like this before on other macs with OpenFirmware and having done testing with them before on BootX Crashing, I knew it was ether Bad RAM, or something was wrong with how OpenFirmware was setup, so I reset the PRAM saw it still held the NVRAM Patches and so i told it to boot and it booted up into OS X (Thank *insert profanity here* it was not Bad RAM LOL)

 

[weckart]

in regards to the 8600 if you power up with no ram do you get a death chime? you should get one with no ram installed, if your not then its most likely something low level, do you have another PSU on hand? also there might be a cuda reset switch on the mother board have you tried jabbing that a couple times? I have also seen your symptoms caused by a Dead CPU card however this was on a PowerMac G4 Quicksilver *cough* @comda *cough*

in regards to the kanga, you dont have to do it ever restart, usually i can reboot/boot the thing a few times before I have to "reset" the PRAM again. is your Kanga booting OS X now?

Hauled the Kanga out and got it to boot 9.2.1 in safe mode. Clearly some extension or other that it doesn't like. Still no go on Tiger. It cannot detect the Tiger volume after the Apple logo comes on and stalls. Complains in Verbose mode that the volume is neither HFS, nor FAT etc.

As for the 8600, tried CUDA and even bereft of the CPU it just turns the fans and green light on. No sombre chimes or any other sort.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Hauled the Kanga out and got it to boot 9.2.1 in safe mode. Clearly some extension or other that it doesn't like. Still no go on Tiger. It cannot detect the Tiger volume after the Apple logo comes on and stalls. Complains in Verbose mode that the volume is neither HFS, nor FAT etc.

As for the 8600, tried CUDA and even bereft of the CPU it just turns the fans and green light on. No sombre chimes or any other sort.

did you play around with the audio extensions on that? you need to roll that back to get Sound working if your running 9.2.1+.
in regards to OS X, oh that error yeah I have seen that one many times before. what is your Open firmware settings? most of the time its BootX is trying to boot the wrong partition or not knowing which one to boot... is Mac OS 9.2.1 and Tiger on the same drive/partition?, and is Tiger on the first partition within 8GB? (if OS X is on its own drive, make sure it has OS9 drivers installed)


hard to say whats up with the 8600 from here sadly, could be a few things... theres plenty of parts for it on ebay tho

 

[weckart]

did you play around with the audio extensions on that? you need to roll that back to get Sound working if your running 9.2.1+.
in regards to OS X, oh that error yeah I have seen that one many times before. what is your Open firmware settings? most of the time its BootX is trying to boot the wrong partition or not knowing which one to boot... is Mac OS 9.2.1 and Tiger on the same drive/partition?, and is Tiger on the first partition within 8GB? (if OS X is on its own drive, make sure it has OS9 drivers installed)


hard to say whats up with the 8600 from here sadly, could be a few things... theres plenty of parts for it on ebay tho

Good call on the audio extensions. Will try that.

With Tiger, that shares the first 7.9GB partition with OS9.1. Since the Apple logo comes up, OF must be finding the correct volume to boot from but gets a bout of Alzheimers partway through the boot process. I am used to the 'waiting for root partition' error from hackintoshing but I doubt the strings entered there to fix that error would work on genuine Mac hardware.

The 8600 is annoying because there is no obvious way to diagnose the problem I could end up wasting money on a logic board or cpu when it is something else.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Yeah from the sound of it the Kanga is not even booting into the OS X kernel yet, what is your xpostfacto/Open Firmware settings? I wonder if you have the wrong partition number set in OpenFirmware, it can cause your issue.

your HDD sounds like its formatted all correctly tho

 

[weckart]

Yeah from the sound of it the Kanga is not even booting into the OS X kernel yet, what is your xpostfacto/Open Firmware settings? I wonder if you have the wrong partition number set in OpenFirmware, it can cause your issue.

your HDD sounds like its formatted all correctly tho

That might be the easiest tweak. XPF is supposed to detect and set the right partition ID. It certainly did not show any warning triangle. Not sure how easy it is to override it.