OS X Tiger on a 603/604 CPU

[laptech]

I saw this thread and wondered if i could get Tiger to install on my 3400c. It's been in a laptop bag collecting dust for the past 18yrs. I decided to see if the powerbook still worked and low and behold, it does, takes a bit of time to boot once you pressed the power on button. The reason i want to try Tiger because my machine has the 128mb upgrade card in it.

The unit has OS9 on it, not sure who put it on because i only have OS 8, 9.2 and 10.1. Anyway, it has xpostfacto on it. put 10.1 (not server edition) in cdrom, ran xpostfacto, selected one of the other partitions to install 10.1 on, clicked the button 'install from cd' and xpostfacto was doing it's stuff. When it finished, the machine powered back on but displayed a white screen with what appeared to be like distorted arrow icon in the top left corner of the screen. The machine then hangs and i have to pull out the ac adapter to power it down because the power button stops working.

Do you think i need to use LBF's modified kernal or could it be something else that i'm not doing properly?

 

[LightBulbFun]

I saw this thread and wondered if i could get Tiger to install on my 3400c. It's been in a laptop bag collecting dust for the past 18yrs. I decided to see if the powerbook still worked and low and behold, it does, takes a bit of time to boot once you pressed the power on button. The reason i want to try Tiger because my machine has the 128mb upgrade card in it.

The unit has OS9 on it, not sure who put it on because i only have OS 8, 9.2 and 10.1. Anyway, it has xpostfacto on it. put 10.1 (not server edition) in cdrom, ran xpostfacto, selected one of the other partitions to install 10.1 on, clicked the button 'install from cd' and xpostfacto was doing it's stuff. When it finished, the machine powered back on but displayed a white screen with what appeared to be like distorted arrow icon in the top left corner of the screen. The machine then hangs and i have to pull out the ac adapter to power it down because the power button stops working.

Do you think i need to use LBF's modified kernal or could it be something else that i'm not doing properly?

first thing you always do with 3400c/Kangas is pull the pram battery, because they have a nasty habit of leaking all over the video part of the motherboard and ruining your day... (luckily on all my machines I had caught them in the nick of time)

in regards to getting OS X going, for 10.4.11 you will need my kernel. (assuming it works on 603/e/ev,s it should but I have never been able to test it LOL)

if your looking at getting 10.1.x going make sure your using xpostfacto 3 as Xpostfacto 4 only supports 10.2-10.4.11 (if the machine is playing funny buggers theres a reset button on the back, and you can reset the PRAM by holding down cmd option P R until the machine reboots a couple times)

also OS X can only boot within the first 8GB of the hard disk so make sure your OS X partition is within that space

BTW I am interested very much in that RAM card hit me up if you ever feel like parting with it

 

[Larsvonhier]

So I´ve tried to boot 10.4.11 on a 3400c with 144MB RAM (and read here about it later on) with your kernel for 603/604 PPC.
I replaced the older kernel on a G3 Pismo running 10.4.11 and cloned the working setup to an external SCSI drive. Booted it on the 3400c.
Verbose output during boot shows a lot of kexts being "not eligible" and then the last output is "calling kernel" followed by nothing and no reaction any further.

Any ideas what is different to the reported success on grey (7200?) boxes?
[doublepost=1516105475][/doublepost]10.2.8 runs here on my 3400c with 144MB RAM, done it with XPostFacto 3, original kernel from the installer CDs.

 

[LightBulbFun]

So I´ve tried to boot 10.4.11 on a 3400c with 144MB RAM (and read here about it later on) with your kernel for 603/604 PPC.
I replaced the older kernel on a G3 Pismo running 10.4.11 and cloned the working setup to an external SCSI drive. Booted it on the 3400c.
Verbose output during boot shows a lot of kexts being "not eligible" and then the last output is "calling kernel" followed by nothing and no reaction any further.

Any ideas what is different to the reported success on grey (7200?) boxes?
[doublepost=1516105475][/doublepost]10.2.8 runs here on my 3400c with 144MB RAM, done it with XPostFacto 3, original kernel from the installer CDs.

Hello

its nice to see some more attempts at this

are you using xpostfacto 3 or 4 with tiger? its very important that you use xpostfacto 4 with tiger.

so far I have seen my kernel booted on just 604e/ev CPUs in a couple 8600s, 1 9600/200MP and in QEMU

also im not sure how well the 3400c SCSI works in tiger, but that should not affect the kernel (if it does not work you will just get still waiting for root device if the kernel works)

but thank you for trying so far

 

[Larsvonhier]

Thanks for the suggestion of using XPF 4.0 instead of 3.1 - this does the trick at least in so far as I could get rid of the "not eligible" kext loading errors. Now it purrs through the pre-boot process, but still hangs with a last text output "Call Kernel!"
I also tried to clear kernel- and kext caches, tried various combinations of processor cache setups (XLR8 vs. Sonnet vs. the XPF supplied kexts). Still no further reaction...

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks for the suggestion of using XPF 4.0 instead of 3.1 - this does the trick at least in so far as I could get rid of the "not eligible" kext loading errors. Now it purrs through the pre-boot process, but still hangs with a last text output "Call Kernel!"
I also tried to clear kernel- and kext caches, tried various combinations of processor cache setups (XLR8 vs. Sonnet vs. the XPF supplied kexts). Still no further reaction...

This is what I feared

thanks for trying tho

I suspect its the kernel for whatever reason not liking the 603ev CPU despite me patching out the unsupported CPU check...

to confirm you do have my kernel installed right? if you boot the install on a normal tiger compatible computer and run uname -a, you should get a release date of 2015 if you have mine installed.

(BTW XpostFacto 4 should also work with Jag I recommend you use it over 3.1 )

 

[Larsvonhier]

Thanks for the quick response after an idle time of a couple of years on this topic ;-) (jumped to this when I read the TenFourFox developer blog)
----
Yes, the setup (even from SCSI) boots right into the finder with the "new" kernel underneath when tested on a Pismo G3 machine...

 

[DearthnVader]

@LightBulbFun

I give your kernel a try:

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu 604  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

No boot, hangs at BootX with no useful debug info.

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu 7410  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

Boots the kernel.

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu host  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

Same as 604.

Disabling KVM and just emulating the 604, boots the kernel.

 

[LightBulbFun]

@LightBulbFun

I give your kernel a try:

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu 604  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

No boot, hangs at BootX with no useful debug info.

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu 7410  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

Boots the kernel.

 sudo qemu-system-ppc -enable-kvm -M mac99 -m 768  -bios '/home/jam/openbios-qemu.elf'  -cpu host  -prom-env 'auto-boot?=false'  -prom-env 'boot-args=-v  debug=0xffe kdp=2'  -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd -g 800x600x32 -netdev user,id=network0 -device rtl8139,netdev=network0  -serial stdio -boot c -hdb ~/Tiger.qcow2 -hda /dev/sdb -prom-env 'boot-file=hd:10,\mach_kernel'

Same as 604.

interesting...

seeing as OS X hangs on 604 but boots on 7410 leads me to believe my Kernel was not installed properly

Make sure clear out all kernel and kext caches and also to check if my kernel is active, run uname -a in the guest once you have my kernel installed you should see a release date of 2015, also make sure to set the permissions of the kernel correctly as follows (assuming your on/in the tiger guest)

cd /
sudo chmod 644 mach_kernel
sudo chown root:wheel mach_kernel

(and of course the stock kernel is a hidden file so i recommend deleting it via Terminal first before installing my kernel with the command: sudo rm /mach_kernel)

if you check out the first post of my Linux KVM adventures you can see im booting Tiger on a 604e in KVM QEMU


but thank you for trying it out if your still running into issues ill test my kernel against KVM QEMU in my Quad and see what happens

(PS assuming your running a relatively recent QEMU, QEMU has sungem nic support so i recommend you do "sungem" instead of rtl8139 for your Network nic Since OS9/OS X has native drivers for that card as it was the NIC built into many macs )

BTW I have been following your work on the emaculation forums too, thats some impressive stuff you have on the go im especially interested in seeing how you get one with the IOMMU passthrough of the GeForce 6600 to a PPC guest

 

[DearthnVader]

@LightBulbFun

I know it's a long shot, as you did this 3 years ago, but do you still have the modified kernel source you used for this kernel?

If so I could use a diff.

If not, could you point me in the right direction on the changes you made to support the 604, because whatever you did allows qemu-ppc to boot from this kernel with the 7448 cpu, so I'll hoping I can make a few changes and boot my 7447a.

 

[LightBulbFun]

@LightBulbFun

I know it's a long shot, as you did this 3 years ago, but do you still have the modified kernel source you used for this kernel?

If so I could use a diff.

If not, could you point me in the right direction on the changes you made to support the 604, because whatever you did allows qemu-ppc to boot from this kernel with the 7448 cpu, so I'll hoping I can make a few changes and boot my 7447a.

indeed I noticed that it lets OS X boot on QEMUs 7448 as well

and that OS X acts the same as it does on a 604 CPU (doing generic PPC rather then anything PPC750 7400 7450 or 970)

it makes me all the more eiger to get ahold of real 7448 hardware to play with (id like to know if the reason OS X wont boot on the 7448 option in QEMU is because the emulation is incompleat or if the 7448 really is not compatible with OS X)

here is the the pice of source code I modified https://mega.nz/#!YRBjiSDJ!7wGiXz49VaFl6i8UPn4VkZxyg9EPTt6cv0Z08CA7JZQ

its basically commenting out the line which says Bail/halt if unknown CPU, by commenting it out it no longer bails and continues to boot using the generic PowerPC config (this is how it was up until the G5 build of 10.2.8 where they added the line to bail)

Apple still hosts the Darwin source code for almost every version of OS X

its well worth having a look through

like for example how Apple added Penryn support to 10.4.11 even tho the first Penryn macs shipped with 10.5

 

[DearthnVader]

indeed I noticed that it lets OS X boot on QEMUs 7448 as well

and that OS X acts the same as it does on a 604 CPU (doing generic PPC rather then anything PPC750 7400 7450 or 970)

it makes me all the more eiger to get ahold of real 7448 hardware to play with (id like to know if the reason OS X wont boot on the 7448 option in QEMU is because the emulation is incompleat or if the 7448 really is not compatible with OS X)

here is the the pice of source code I modified https://mega.nz/#!YRBjiSDJ!7wGiXz49VaFl6i8UPn4VkZxyg9EPTt6cv0Z08CA7JZQ

its basically commenting out the line which says Bail/halt if unknown CPU, by commenting it out it no longer bails and continues to boot using the generic PowerPC config (this is how it was up until the G5 build of 10.2.8 where they added the line to bail)

Apple still hosts the Darwin source code for almost every version of OS X

its well worth having a look through

like for example how Apple added Penryn support to 10.4.11 even tho the first Penryn macs shipped with 10.5

Thanks, here is a custom BootX 74.1 ( 10.4.x )that will send logging to the screen, or the console if booted with -nographic in qemu.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E4ldrjfQ0NgNeRza-wSne_sUHfIA3Eph
[doublepost=1517070633][/doublepost]Oh, and here is a custom Openbios elf with support for a few more cpu's. Tho some of them only work with KVM 7450/7455 maybe some others.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L9gCIyM6q-i0ABdg4tsLNhZmdXJ8qFQf

I don't know why, but they won't work on x86 as no KVM.

I'd be interest to know how they work on you G5 with KVM, if you still have it.

I've got a Quicksilver with dual 7450's or 7455 on it way, so I too would love to come across on of the 7448 cpu upgrades, but beware they require a firmware updater, and I don't know if we can still download it anywhere. So if you come across one for sale make sure you can get the firmware before you buy it.

As far as I'm aware a 7448 is a 7447a with double the L2 cache?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks, here is a custom BootX 74.1 ( 10.4.x )that will send logging to the screen, or the console if booted with -nographic in qemu.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E4ldrjfQ0NgNeRza-wSne_sUHfIA3Eph
[doublepost=1517070633][/doublepost]Oh, and here is a custom Openbios elf with support for a few more cpu's. Tho some of them only work with KVM 7450/7455 maybe some others.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L9gCIyM6q-i0ABdg4tsLNhZmdXJ8qFQf

I don't know why, but they won't work on x86 as no KVM.

I'd be interest to know how they work on you G5 with KVM, if you still have it.

I've got a Quicksilver with dual 7450's or 7455 on it way, so I too would love to come across on of the 7448 cpu upgrades, but beware they require a firmware updater, and I don't know if we can still download it anywhere. So if you come across one for sale make sure you can get the firmware before you buy it.

As far as I'm aware a 7448 is a 7447a with double the L2 cache?

very cool! ill have a play with those at some point hopefully soon (i too have noticed some CPU options only work when running with KVM, for example at the time I started this thread, -cpu 604 etc would only boot any version of OS X in KVM, when using TCG OS X would Panic, they have since fixed that tho)

(I do still have all my Hardware in this thread I even have a G5 Quad now )

if its a 1Ghz Quicksilver then it will have 7455s IIRC

and yeah I have a small collection of firmware updaters, and with some internet sleuthing you can find them online

the 7448 as well as having 1MB of L2 cache is also made on a 90Nm Node (vs 130 for the 7447) it also supports DFS divide by 4 mode, and also has some L1/L2 cache ECC functions I recommend reading its datasheet https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MPC7448EC.pdf

 

[DearthnVader]

very cool! ill have a play with those at some point hopefully soon (i too have noticed some CPU options only work when running with KVM, for example at the time I started this thread, -cpu 604 etc would only boot any version of OS X in KVM, when using TCG OS X would Panic, they have since fixed that tho)

(I do still have all my Hardware in this thread I even have a G5 Quad now )

if its a 1Ghz Quicksilver then it will have 7455s IIRC

and yeah I have a small collection of firmware updaters, and with some internet sleuthing you can find them online

the 7448 as well as having 1MB of L2 cache is also made on a 90Nm Node (vs 130 for the 7447) it also supports DFS divide by 4 mode, and also has some L1/L2 cache ECC functions I recommend reading its datasheet https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MPC7448EC.pdf

The 7450/7455 can't boot the linux kernel either, the 7447a can, as well as -cpu host on my ?7447b.

Things just get stranger and stranger.

 

[Jubadub]

So... thoughts on recompiling something like this for the 10.2.8 (G5 version) kernel, so we can boot Jaguar on PowerPC 970FX G5s?

 

[DearthnVader]

So... thoughts on recompiling something like this for the 10.2.8 (G5 version) kernel, so we can boot Jaguar on PowerPC 970FX G5s?

It's not the same, I don't think, Kernels from 10.3.x up have the "halt on unknown cpu" Jaguar and back don't.

So it's not a matter of patching it to not halt on unknown cpu, because it already doesn't.

Booting is coming to a halt for some other reason connect to the 970FX.

 

[Amethyst1]

Kernels from 10.3.x up have the "halt on unknown cpu" Jaguar and back don't.

I think the G5 builds of Jaguar do have it.

 

[LightBulbFun]

indeed the 10.2.8 (and I think even 10.2.7) G5 Jaguar builds where the first to include the Halt on Unknown CPU check

so in theory it could be patched the same

tho it would be interesting to know if CPU support and definitions can be back ported from newer OS X versions

so for example the 970FX's and 7447A's are recognised properly rather then generically

 

[Jubadub]

If adding explicit support and definitions rather than generic recognition, don't be shy about including 970MP too, just in case...

 

[Jubadub]

A thought just crossed my mind with this build of Tiger: what if we took a QEMU setup that works with stock Tiger PPC, but then change the CPU flag to use some later PowerPC processor (i.e. POWER6 or something), and tried booting with this version of the Tiger kernel?

Just a completely barebones, wild idea. I also wonder if such a build of Tiger could also work on any PowerPC machine as long as OpenFirmware feeds it a device tree (and we use a compatible PCIe GPU). I'm likely underestimating a lot of things here, but I wanted to get the thought out there. Perhaps I found the most stupid, reckless motivation to seek a Talos II / Blackbird... And yet, I can't help myself, but also ask: could it be possible that OpenBIOS (the libre version of OpenFirmware, sort of) could be installed, and work, on a "Talos II family" computer? (Even if not to run OS X.)

Nonsense ramblings over personal kinks, mind me not...

EDIT: "Do not try to put OpenBIOS in a real boot ROM, it will not work and may damage your hardware!"
RIP dreams.