OS X Upgrade Help Request For 2011 MBP!

Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by Bazzy, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Bazzy macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi All,

    I have a 2011 17” MBP which is running Mavericks 10.9.5 & late last year I upgraded the stock 750GB HDD to a new 2TB one which I partitioned as 2 x 1TB Drives naming them as Macintosh HD1 & Mackintosh HD 2. I have also replaced the DVD Drive with another HDD naming that as Macintosh HD 3.

    I am having major problems with a stags.bluekai.com pop up that always appears despite my installing Avast Anti-Virus that was supposed to deal with this issue. Even though a new HDD has been fitted, I am still experiencing a bunch of spinning beach balls & other issues which seem affect operation & performance is sluggish & slow.

    I have done Etrecheck, Malware Bytes & run repair permissions & repair disk and all seem fine there. Avast anti-virus has not flagged up any issues. Macintosh HD1 which is acting as the normal start up drive is less than half full.

    I am saving up for a larger capacity 1TB SSD but in the meantime would like to upgrade the OS so I can get rid of this hellish pop-up which I have read can only be dealt with by upgrading the OS and for better & more stable performance. As my MBP is old now & will still be using a mechanical HDD for the time being, someone suggested to me that I should only upgrade up to El-Capitan & no higher till I get an SSD fitted - may I ask, is that the right choice for my machine & situation or will another OS work/be better?

    I have been able to make a bootable usb stick of El-Capitan by using Diskmaker X. As my MBP has had a bunch of older OS iterations installed in the past & due to the sluggish performance, I am considering doing a clean install so I have as fresh a system as possible & without any crud from the past that may still affect things. I also read (here I think) that if one is upgrading the OS by a few generations, then a clean install is a much better thing to do - may I ask, is this correct?

    I know that by doing a clean install, I will lose all my data & everything on my HDD - presumably, it will only be on Macintosh HD1? I have both Time Machine & Super-Duper Back Ups in place currently.

    I have seen some videos on YT on how to do a clean install but they do not show the next stage which is how to move all your data & settings etc back once El-Capitan is installed from the Back Up.

    I have some concerns & questions:

    1. I read somewhere that if doing a clean install & jumping up a a new OS by a few generations, then it is also very wise to do a “Deep, Deep Clean” - is this correct & how does one do such?

    2. If I back up from say either TM or SD, will either just re-input everything as last back-up so I will have Mavericks again instead of the freshly installed El-Capitan?

    3. Will all my Accounts, Settings, Apps & everything else be exactly as they were before or will I have to go through the massively long task of having to do all them all again - very concerned about this!

    4. Will my Apple Mail App be as it currently is - I would really hate to lose all the accounts, settings etc and have to face receiving many, many thousands of already received emails again & having to sift through all of them - that would be a total nightmare.

    5. Will Notes App still be there on El-Capitan?

    6. I have a massive iPhoto Library with over 14000 photos on it - will this be safely transferred on to El-Capitan? I heard Apple had replaced iPhoto with something else & if so, will all my Photos on iPhoto be automatically transferred to this new version if this is the case?

    7. I have iWork (iPhoto, Numbers & Keynote) as well as Microsoft Office For Mac 2011 which I really want & need - will they still fully work with El-Capitan?

    8. Which is the better Back Up to restore from once the OS has been upgraded - Time Machine or Super-Duper & how long does it take for say 500GB of Data?

    9. What is the best, easiest & safest way/process to restore all my Data back once exactly as it was before once the clean install is done?

    10. Is there anything else I should do, be aware of or have not considered?

    Very sorry for the long post but as you can probably tell, I am not the brightest spark around so wanted to provide as much info as possible!

    Many Kinds in Advance!

  2. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
  3. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    Lots to cover here....

    1. No. MacOS usually does a fabulous job with version upgrades, no need to do a clean install. Nothing wrong with cleaning out old cruft, but not required.

    2. Yes. Restoring from Time Machine works nicely...if you do a clean install, this would be the easiest way to restore all your user data.

    3. Yes, if you do a TM restore (assuming everything is backed up), you will have everything. Some things will need to be updated (Mail database, etc.), but this is normal update process.

    4. Yes. Same as 3.

    5. Yes. Same as 3.

    6. Yes. Same as 3...they transitioned to Photos. But it will import all the content, and you will be be up and running.

    7. As I recall, yes. There are newer versions, but it is now free, so you should get those at update. Office will be fine.

    8. Both are fine, both work. I would be tempted to do the TM restore, if you already have the backup waiting. Figure a few hours...longer from one partition to the second, because the reads and writes are on the same drive.

    9. Not sure what you mean....restoring IS putting the data back, just as it was, as of the last backup.

    10. I would start by doing a clean OS install on the new HD. Next, I would restore the most recent TM backup to it and boot to it. Next, I would let everything update (open Mail, photos, etc,). Next I would run all software updates, both from Apple and all third party software. Last, I would test test test. If everything is fine....yer done. If not, you can always wipe the drive and go again.....since it was restored from backup; no risk, nothing to lose but time.

    • FYI: it is totally valid to go the other route: clone via SuperDuper your existing OS to the new HD, and then run the OS updater. Nothing wrong with this approach. But you do have a higher risk of moving more cruft with the clone...because it is a clone.

    • As for the security question, could it be a polluted browser? Do you only see that when you open a browser?
  4. charlyham macrumors regular


    Jun 30, 2012
    You can first try to get rid of the browser booger by using detectx. https://sqwarq.com/detectx/. If you do decide to do a fresh install just create a new temp admin account and then use migration wizard to bring your profile from TM. You can then remove the temp profile.
  5. Bazzy, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018

    Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi hobowankenobi,

    Sorry for the delay in responding & very deep thanks for your kind & thorough response! You have answered much of my concerns & it has helped me out greatly.

    On point 2 however, I am still a bit confused as you answered "Yes" - just wish to make sure so say I clean install El-Capitan & all other data is wiped & I need to re-install via TM. The MBP will now have El-Capitan BUT the Back-Ups will have Mavericks. If I then use any of the Back-Up Drives to restore all my data, will the process REMOVE the freshly installed El-Capitan & replace it with Mavericks from the Back Up? I am a little confused by this!

    I take full note of your comments in point 10 & will follow that process then! Currently I have 4 TM back Ups & a Single SD one so have some protection if things go haywire!

    As for this horrendous "Stags.bluekai.com" pop-up it is almost constant on many websites. I read that by installing Avast Anti-Virus would solve it which it did for a while but now no longer. Apparently it is something that needs to be updated by either and/or Apple & the Company that issues the certificates which they are not doing & only a OS upgrade will now solve it - Quite a few other folks have had to deal with it.

    I have attached a Malware Bytes & Etrecheck report in case it might help identify what might be causing the beach-balling & slow/sluggish performance - apologies for the length!

    On another note, if I was to buy an SSD - say Samsung 860evo or Crucial MX500 - what version of MacOS do you then feel would work well with my 17" 2011 MBP - do you feel High Sierra would work well? I think I read that not all of its features will work though? Ideally, I would want for the best running & most Secure OS.

    Many Kind Thanks,

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    --- Post Merged, Jun 14, 2018 ---
    Hi charlyham,

    Many thanks also for your input! I did use DetectX as you suggested but nothing regarding the Safari Browser or this Stags.bluekai.com pop-up appeared. However it did flag up some things to do with Clean My Mac 2.0 that I have installed but only use occasionally. I went ahead & deleted the files it flagged up as I dod not know what they were or what they were doing but was concerned enough to delete them as DetectX must have identified them for a reason. I have attached a screenshot of what it flagged up below - is there anything I should be concerned about?

    I will also take on board your advice about creating a new temp account & thanks for the link!

    Also, if you had my machine with an SSD - what version of Mac OS would you use or feel would work best - High Sierra or lower?

    Many Thanks!

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  6. Fishrrman, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018

    Fishrrman macrumors P6


    Feb 20, 2009
    My suggestions.

    1. Back up both internal drives using SuperDuper. You want a CLONED backup that can be mounted in the finder. I don't use TM and don't trust it.

    2. Boot from your installer USB.

    3. ERASE -one- of the internal drives completely. WIPE IT OUT. This will become your new boot drive.

    4. Do a clean install of El Cap on the drive.

    5. Now the tough decision: do you want to "migrate over" "automatically" from your backup (using setup assistant), or do you want to do a "manual migration" so that you can pick and choose what is to come over?

    Once you make that decision, you can proceed either way.

    Final thought:
    STOP using "Clean my Mac".
    Use something else or do it "by hand".
    App Cleaner seems to be ok.
  7. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    That cert warning is just that...a warning. An old or unsigned cert, not that uncommon.

    Two options:

    1. Delete the cert via keychain
    2. Click the Show Certificate button and approve it

    Seeings as you don't know what it is, the safest thing would to delete it in keychain:

    How to Delete a Certificate on a Mac

    Step 1
    Log on to your computer with an administrative account.

    Step 2
    Navigate to the "Utilities" folder in the "Applications" section of the Mac hard drive.

    Step 3
    Double-click on the "Keychain Access" icon to open the certificate application.

    Step 3
    Select "Certificates" from the list of categories in the lower-left corner of the window.

    Step 4
    Click on the virtual certificate that you wish to delete.

    Step 5
    Go to "Edit" in the top menu bar and select "Delete." Click "Delete" to confirm the decision.
  8. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi Fishrrman!

    Thanks for the input! I will do as you say & stop using (even get rid of) Clean My Mac!

    I will also go out & buy some more HDD Drives to make SD Clones of the other two Drives (Mackintosh HD2 & HD3) I have on my MBP. At present, I have a 1 x SD Back Up & 4 x TM Back Ups of the main operating Drive -Mackintosh HD.

    I plan on doing a clean install as you suggest in 3 as for some reason, even though the main HD is fairly new & all the system reports seem to suggest that all is OK, I am getting lots of beach-balls, slow/sluggish performance & very high RAM usage even though I have 16GB of RAM. This is just doing very basic stuff like web browsing or using using MS Word etc.

    Some apps like iPhoto, Quicktime etc send the MBP into a heat frenzy, very high CPU usage, RAM maxing out & Fans spinning madly at full rpm.

    As for the Data, tbh, I would rather just do everything automatically as that way, I may not miss anything inadvertently & also possibly mess things up. I just want to ensure that if I install say El-Capitan or even High Sierra (if I get an SSD) then the Back Ups which contain Mavericks will not wipe out the New OS & replace it with Mavericks again!

    Many Thanks,
    --- Post Merged, Jun 15, 2018 ---
    Hi hobowankenobi,

    Thanks again greatly for the input - I have scoured tons of places for advice on this pop up & no one seems to know how to get rid of it except by upgrading the OS!

    I followed the steps you provided but in Step 4, I could not find anything that stated "Stags.bluekai.com" so could not select & delete. There is a whole bunch of stuff there I have no idea about or if it is important, needed, useless or if much of it could be gotten rid of - if so please kindly let me know!

    Please see all the certs that show up in Step 4 & let me know if any are related to this "Stags.bluekai.com" so I can get rid of it & any others you also feel that can be removed!

    Kind Regards,

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  9. hobowankenobi, Jun 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018

    hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    Next time the cert nag pops up, click the "Show Certificate" button for details.

    You can delete all of the certs you want. Not that you need to, but stuff you don't recognize or that has expired can go. Very little risk of any issues.

    If you do for a legit site, next time you go, the site will push a new cert.

    Also...legit signed SSL certs typically have a max expiration date of about 2 years, though some may still go 3 years. Most certs that have more than that have little value for security, they are just a place holder to prevent a browser nagging you about site security.

    As for OS:

    I have had no issues with 10.13 on several machines, including an 8 year old MBP with an Samsung SSD installed. Runs great. 10.14 is right around the corner too, so 10.13 is fairly mature. Likely 1 or two more small/security patches. Apple typically supports an OS for about 5 years, so if you do go for 10.12 or older be aware that you will be pushed to upgrade in as little as a couple years. Unless you have a specific reason not to (old software, old printer that does not have newer OS drivers, etc), I would go 10.13.

    You have plenty of free RAM, and no swap space used, which is ideal. No RAM issues.

    Your slowness is either a process hanging, hogging resources, or there are lots of read/writes on the drive. It is at least possible the HD is having issues. Keep your backups current....just in case.

    Several of your helper apps are old, and no longer supported on newer OSes (last I checked). Would be wise to kill off, unless you are going to proceed with a fresh OS install. Stuff to clean out, to reduce cruft and variables:

    iStat (maybe...at least the old free light version)

    Others I don't know about:

    Avast AV
    DefaultBrowser (plugin)
    com.apple.FolderActions.enabled.plist (launchdaemon)
  10. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009


    Thanks for that - I have never messed with anything to do with Keychain as I always assumed it was way too important to mess with if you have a novice understanding of it like I do so all those certs must have built up over a very long time!

    I will delete any that are older than 2 years say - hopefully that will clean Keychain up a bit of clutter but may I ask you - can you determine from my keychain screenshots where this darned "Stags.bluekai.com" cert is? If so, I will will race to forever delete it!

    I am really tempted to just delete ALL of the certs to be honest - I have no idea what most of them are for or if important - if a site is important like you say, then new certs will be issued you say so do you think I should do so - would you if you had on your machine what I have on mine?

    As for the OS, I know I started this thread asking if El Capitan was the best choice for my MBP with a regular drive but I am now seriously considering just biting the bullet & getting a SSD - Samsung 860evo or Crucial MX500 & I can go for a 500GB one but I really want a 1TB one tbh & here in the UK, there are more costly.

    My thinking is that with 16GB of RAM (max installable) & the latest SSD, there will then be very little I can do to improve my machine any further so this will be the final step & I will hopefully have to spend no more on it. It will then have a 1TB SSD, 2TB 2nd Hard Drive & 16GB of RAM - either that or fork out £3500 on a new MBP which I do not have!

    I was able to get a ExpressCard34 which allows for USB 3.0 designed specifically for Macs (finally after many years of trying!) - USB 2.0 was a torturous experience. For the most part the card works great but can be a bit temperamental depending on the task it is given but I will still take it any day over USB 2.0 - it is way, way faster!

    As you say 10.13 (High Sierra) then I will just go for that then if I can get my SSD - I suppose then for me, there will be no more MacOS upgrades as High Sierra the highest my 2011 MBP will be able to operate. It is unlikely I will be able to ever afford a top end MBP again so I will just be stuck forever with High Sierra then I guess!

    I am not to bothered about losing older software as long as the iWork & MS Office for MAC apps work but would like to be able to use my printers - an Epson SX-535WD All in One Inkjet & a HP 2605dtn laser printer - how can I check if they will work with High Sierra may I ask?

    Many Kind Thanks!
  11. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    If you are going to move to 10.13, no need to do any real house cleaning, unless you plan to use the migration too, or otherwise pull your existing account forward. I would clean out the oldest, and any unsigned or expired (little red X on it) first, and test. Next I would remove certs that I don't recognize and test.

    Yes, you should be able to kill them all, but some of the software related certs might cause an issue, so I would kill those last.

    Yes, you will get max performance with the SSD. Have used both Samsung and Crucical with no issues in various Macs. Do you need 1TB? Or will 500GB work?

    While some older printers continue to work without driver updates, sometimes they suffer from odd/limited behavior, and often they simply don't work. We have a 10 year old Dell 5110 at work, and each year/OS I wait for it to stop working...but it still does as of 10.13, even though driver supported ended at least a couple OSes back. You can google and dig around to see if others have any problems or luck getting these printers working on newer, unsupported OSes.

    One way to test, would be to clone your OS to an external, boot to it, then upgrade it to 10.13...and see how the printers (and the machine in general behaves. It would be a test OS, so you can clean/test with nothing to lose but your time

    iWork has some updates afer 10.12 as I recall, but most older versions of Office still work, last I checked. Depends on the vintage: 2011 or older. You can consider a new(er) version of office, or, if you hare not a heavy, power user, check out Libre Office. together with iWork, might be a good, free replacement.
  12. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi Again,

    Good to know about not needing to do any house cleaning if upgrading the OS then but however I re-input my data on after OS upgrade, whether it be SD or TM, will all these old certs still be there? If I do choose migration assistant to get all my data back, what should I do with all the certs then?

    I tried removing/deleting all the ones with the "x" in the hope that this might get rid of this stags.bluekai.com pop up but the delete option is greyed out so am unable to do so - any idea why this might be so & how to overcome it?

    I am worried that 500GB might not be enough tbh - the stock drive was 750GB which was nearly full so I had to pretty much move all my movies/media stuff on to another drive to make room. Even now, you will see that I have 485GB of data on my main drive which really does not leave room for much else!

    I really hope my current printers will work with 10.13 as I can still use very cheap generic ink with the Epson & new ones are chipped/coded to screw you over. With the HP, I have enough of spare laser ink cartridges of each colour to last quite a long time so would also like to be able to use rather than fork out more money for printers I really do not want/need & then teh heavy ink costs afterwards!

    I may well try out your idea of testing via a bootable clone - need to get another spare HD first before I can do so.

    Will check out LibreOffice as well - I like the MS Office - mine is 2011 as it means I can send create & send documents to Windows users without any issues!

    Many Thanks!

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  13. hobowankenobi, Jun 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018

    hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    Click the lock icon first, authenticate, and then try your delete again.

    Yes, I would expect everything to come over if you restore from TM, use the Migration tool, or upgrade the OS....either way, you will retain the user account, all settings and preferences are retained, including existing keychains.

    One other way to reset the keychain is to simply reset the keychain. You can do it manually or with the reset button. Both wipe out everything, and let you start fresh. The manual way lets you recapture some old keys (passwords), but most folks simply wipe out (reset) their keychain, and start fresh. That means simply using your mac, and re-entering site passwords as needed.

    Why you enter a password, and check the "remember me" box, typically a keychain entry is made. Same goes for joining wifi, and any other network password protected stuff.


    2011 should work fine as is, but check out Libre Office, I find it works seamlessly with Office documents, both send to and receiving from Office users.

    According to this page, the HP should work with 10.13...scolling down to see 2605 listed.
  14. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi Again!

    I went back into Keychain & made sure all the locks symbols at the top corner were unlocked but it still did not work - the delete option was still greyed out on the "System Roots" section - this happened whether I selected all the expired certs or just one of them. If I right click on any expired cert, it gives a bunch of options but not delete.

    If I went to the "login" section, it DID allow me to do so & I deleted one of them - an Oracle one which I think might be the offending one but there are some expired Apple ones there & I left them alone & thought I better ask you before touching them - please see screenshots.

    If I do migrate, I would rather just get rid of all old & expired stuff as I do not want them migrating over & wish for a clean a system as possible. Do you think I should reset Keychain then - due to lack of knowledge, I just wish to ensure I will not lose anything or affect laptop function/usability but am happy to re-enter passwords etc.

    Thanks for the insight into LibreOffice - I will most definitely check it out once I have upgraded the OS & it sounds like a great option!

    Great to know that my HP laser printer will still work then - thanks immensely!

    I have a confession to make - with all the lag, slow operation & beach-balling I am getting despite it being on a relatively new half filled drive with no issues identified, I just got so fed up now that I have ordered a new SSD - A 1TB Samsung 860 Pro. It was expensive but ironically the same sort of price as the 860 Evo so I just assumed the Pro version might be better or more reliable etc in some way - I trust it will work well in my MBP?

    Many Kind Thanks!

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  15. charlyham macrumors regular


    Jun 30, 2012
    I did a little research and found this article that addresses the stags.bluekai and explains what is causing you to see the notices.

    I would steer clear of clean my mac or mackeeper. I have heard nothing good about either of those. I use Detectx and Malwarebytes to clean Possibly Unwanted Programs and sometimes use Onyx if I get weird things happening with the file system.

    Any version of OSx would be good. High Sierra changes the file system to the new apfs and from the little bit I have read about that change is that some older programs may have trouble with it. I haven't run into that on my 2010 white macbook and am running High Sierra on it on a 250gb samsung evo ssd and 4gb ram. I was pleasantly surprised how much faster it is with the ssd. It boots almost as fast as my 2013 Air.
  16. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi charlyham,

    Thanks kindly for the link & info - it seems that only an OS upgrade will get rid of the stags.blukai issue as I had read then & Apple will not do anything about it anymore on Mavericks huh?

    Please tell me that I do NOT have Mackeeper or anything related to it on my MBP - did you see/find anything on my system that is - if so, PLEASE tell me how I can get rid of it fully & permanently as I was not aware it might be there.

    Going to delete Clean My Mac 2.0 as well - hardly ever use it anyway - its one of those enticing programmes that give novices like me some sort of maybe misguided satisfaction & peace of mind that they can regain valuable space, get rid of junk from the system & that everything will then be fine & in tip top shape after using it - experts like you folks know better!

    Good to know that your 2010 MB runs well with High Sierra & hopefully that might also then mean that my 2011 MBP will not either with the 16GB RAM & Samsung 860 Pro SSD?

    Many Thanks,
  17. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi All,

    I got my Samsung 860 Pro SSD today & I set about installing High Sierra on it as an external drive via USB cable. I followed the instructions on two YouTube Videos to the letter & after completing the install process my MBP went through the automatic restart & after restart completed, the Samsung SSD which I named "Macintosh SSD" appeared on the desktop in Orange.

    It shows capacity as "1.02TB, 1.02TB Free" but there is a folder inside called "macOS Install Data".

    On the videos, after the OS installation is complete & the computer restarts, it automatically takes the users to entering all the log in personal details & preferences but this not happening in my case & the MBP restarts on my usual Mavericks Desktop.

    Can anyone please be kind enough to tell me if I did anything wrong & how to complete the HS installation on the currently external SSD - "Macintosh SSD" please?

    Many Thanks,

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  18. Fishrrman macrumors P6


    Feb 20, 2009
    I'm going to -guess- that you don't have the "full installer".

    There are many confusing posts above.

    What did you use to get this far?
    Internet recovery?
    Or... something else?
  19. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi Fishrrman,

    I am sorry if my posts have been confusing - it was not intentional but I will try harder to make things more clearer!

    I had previously downloaded High Sierra from the App Store & had used that to install it on the external Samsung SSD named Macintosh SSD.

    Just to let you know, I was finally able to get the High Sierra process completed on the external SSD. It was an USB issue of some sort - when connecting the SSD via USB cable to either the USB 2.0 Ports built in on my Mac or to the USB 3.0 ones on the Express Card that I have installed the above was all that was happening & on some ports the SSD disk was not even showing up.

    On one occasion, I got a power message regarding USB connection so I decided to connect the Samsung SSD to a powered external USB 3.0 Hub & then connect the Hub to my MBP & it worked - the rest of the install process took place & I now have HS installed on the Samsung SSD so it seems that it was a power issue between the SSD & my MBP when the two are connected to each other directly - maybe the SSD requires more power than the USB ports on my MBP are able to provide since it is so old? I do not know.

    I now have to figure out how to restore all my data onto the SSD WITHOUT wiping out the newly installed High Sierra. I was going to do it via Time Machine but have read that a TM restore WILL overwrite High Sierra with Mavericks which I do not want. My SuperDuper back Up will also presumably do the same since it too was made on Mavericks.

    So, my dilemma is, how do I transfer everything from the Mavericks based TM & SD Backs Ups I have to the external Samsung SSD without wiping out High Sierra? Please remember, my plan was to have a clean install with High Sierra, Transfer all my data on to it & once that is all done & OK, install it in my MBP & use as my main drive.

    Many Thanks,
  20. Fishrrman, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018

    Fishrrman macrumors P6


    Feb 20, 2009
    Alright, now you have a drive that is bootable to the finder, even though it's an external drive.

    "Bootable to the finder" is what counts on the Mac.
    Anything less than that "isn't good enough".

    Have you already gone through the initial setup procedure on the new drive?
    That means, have you created a new account on the new drive?

    You can use "Migration Assistant" with your TM backup to restore your apps, accounts, and data.

    What you need to do is this:
    1. Get booted to the finder from the external drive (as you are now)
    2. Connect your TM backup (but don't do anything with it yet)
    3. Open Migration Assistant. It will require a password (your NEW password) and take a moment to get itself ready
    4. "Aim" migration assistant at your TM backup
    5. Migration assistant will now ask WHAT you wish to migrate. It will offer to migrate applications, accounts, settings, and data.
    6. I would choose to migrate EVERYTHING.
    7. Now let migration assistant do its thing. It may take some time, depending on how much is on the TM backup. You should IGNORE the messages "xxx many minutes left" -- this is often inaccurate.
    8. When done, you need to log OUT of the new account you created when you set up the external drive. LOG INTO the "old" account that was "brought over" by migration assistant. This gets you "back to where you once belonged".

    Does this work?
    If it DOES, the next step is to get the contents of the external drive onto the INTERNAL drive.
    But that will be the subject of another post.
    You've got to get the stuff above done first.
  21. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi Fishrrman,

    Thanks greatly! You asked:

    "Have you already gone through the initial setup procedure on the new drive? That means, have you created a new account on the new drive?"

    - Yes Sir, I have.

    Thanks for the step by step instructions - BEFORE I carry them out, I just wish to make sure that:

    a) Doing the Migration Assistant Data Transfer (especially since as in point 6 you say "choose everything") WILL NOT replace/erase High Sierra On the external SSD Drive with Mavericks that all the Time Machine Backs are made with as my MBP is currently on Mavericks?

    b) Do I have have to restart the MBP by holding down the "alt" button to do this procedure or is it "Cmd +R" or something else?

    You say: "Does this work? - If it DOES, the next step is to get the contents of the external drive onto the INTERNAL drive."

    - Sorry to be thick again but if I have done the procedure as you have provided & it transfers all my data on to the external SSD OK, my plan was to simply then to remove the HDD inside the MBP & swap it with the SSD with all the Data now on it & just use the MBP as normal - will this not work then?

    I am just a bit confused when you say the next step is to get the contents of the external drive (SSD with data now transferred from TM via MA) on to the INTERNAL Drive as I will be removing the current INTERNAL Drive & replacing it with the SSD?

    Many Thanks,
  22. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.
    The migration steps above per Fish are the easiest way to migrate your data....which means moving everything BUT the OS. User data, configs, and settings: no, it will not wipe out or replace your OS.


    The folder you have on your new SSD is not the normal directory structure that a bootable drive normally has. You should see the normal root directories, including:


    So your OS install looks to be flawed or incorrect.

    Easiest way to test:

    With the external plugged in, simply restart your computer while holding the Option key. You should get a list of bootable OSes, and if you see your new SSD, select it to boot it.

    If it boots, and all is well, you can proceed with the migration steps.

    If it does not boot, you need to wipe the drive and reinstall the clean OS. No need to waste time migrating if the OS is not installed correctly and happy.


    Once you have a happy, booting new OS on the SSD, I would proceed with the migration tool, and then boot again into your migrated user and test.

    If everything is good, then yes, you simply swap the now external SSD for the old internal HD. Done.
  23. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009
    Hi All,

    Thanks Fishrrman & hobowankenobi - greatly appreciated!

    Well, things were very testing indeed - all sorts of problems:

    1) The external SSD would always mount to the desktop but did not show up after pressing "alt" at starting - tried multiple times. Initially I tried via direct connection to my Mac via the USB 3.0 card ports. Then via the powered USB 3.0 hub & to the USB 3.0 Card but no joy.

    I then tried the above again but this time to each of the 3 built in USB 2.0 hubs & I got exactly the same situation on the first two USB 2.0 Mac Ports. I finally tried connecting the external SSD to the last USB 2.0 port & the SSD was available after pressing "alt" & restarting. I do not know why this happened as I tested each port with other USB devices & they all seem to work just fine?

    I was also having lots of issues with my TM Back Ups - they started to hang & get stuck and one some disks, started to back up the entire drive instead of doing the supposed incremental back ups. This made me very nervous about using TM/MA as I was losing so much time waiting for back ups to finish or get unstuck etc.

    As I got scared using TM/MA, I ended up transferring the data from my SuperDuper Back Up via USB 2.0 on the only port on my Mac that would show the SSD after restarting.

    The process went smoothly but it took an absolute age. I did notice something though - my original Macintosh HD showed 509.69GB Free but after the SD transfer process completed on the SSD, it showed 545.56GB Free so there is a difference of 35.87GB - Is this a serious concern, is data missing or is it to do with space being freed up by High Sierra & it being more efficient etc than Mavericks or the way SD works?

    I installed the SSD inside my MBP & initially - it went crazy - massive CPU, RAM Usage & very high temps - even small apps like Activity Monitor used High CPU etc.

    It has decreased now but still very high compared to Mavericks - Temps are almost twice as high & I get lots of CPU spikes & very heavy RAM usage doing just light things like web browsing which can eat up nearly all 16GB of my RAM. Believe it or not, I am still get some Beach-Balling occurring & this is on a Brand New Samsung 860 Pro SSD installed - WHY is this all happening?

    The Mail App is acting very weird, deleted email end up in the junk folder, emails already opened, are re-sent as new & now I have hundreds to sift through again.

    The dreaded "stags.bluekai" pop-up has finally disappeared though which is great!

    Some of the expired certs in Keychain are still there & I am unable to delete - delete option is greyed out.

    The MBP now takes about 55 secs to fully start up which is great as well. I did an Etrecheck again & it reports System Performance as "Excellent" which is very bemusing considering the issues I am having. It also flagged up some items to "Clean Up" & "Remove" but it is not letting me - stating the current version is not recognised(?) - I checked on their website & there is a new version but it is now not free!

    I am a bit concerned that even with High Sierra & a Brand New SSD installed, I am still getting some Beach-Balling & why running very light tasks, my CPU & RAM use is so very high causing temps to skyrocket. I can also feel the SSD inside getting warm.

    Even when doing nothing & with NO apps running - the systems uses very high RAM (sometimes ALL 16GB of it) compared to Mavericks & Temps are much higher. Would really welcome any thoughts, ideas & advice on how to resolve!

    Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 01.14.53.png
    Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 14.20.49.png

    Screen Shot 2018-06-28 at 22.08.30.png Screen Shot 2018-06-28 at 22.08.45.png Screen Shot 2018-06-28 at 22.08.59.png Screen Shot 2018-06-28 at 22.09.19.png
  24. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2015
    on the land line mr. smith.

    I still see a few things that are old, and have the potential to cause some issues. Would be good to remove the variables and see how it runs.

    You can also Safe boot, and see what resource use is like.

    Don't forget that the drive gets indexed on the first boot, and that (a one time thing) takes some resources.

    Stuff to consider pulling:

    Dr. Cleaner
    Flip for Mac
    Director Shockwave
    Flash (version 10??? Crazy old!)
    Memory Monitor


    Stickies is using the most CPU?
    RAM looks good, but you said it was all used?
    10.13 installed....but HFS+ on SSD? Is that right?
  25. Bazzy thread starter macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2009

    If I Safe Boot, what is the process/procedure to follow in order to check what resources are being used or are causing issues problems?

    I emailed SuperDuper about the 35.09GB difference in HD & SSD sizes after transferring all the data & if any Data was missing & was told that:

    "This is due to sleep images, swap files, temporary files and the like. You may have even had some "dead" folders in /Volumes from network mounts that failed. If you received no errors, you're fine."

    Does that sound correct to you as I just wish to ensure that there was no actual Data Missing or Loss?

    I have now deleted all on your list except Flash as I not sure where version 10 is - I cannot seem to find it? The info I get is mine is version I also found some Flash Folders (one called PepperFlashPlayer?) & a Flash Player.prefpane - are these the ones you mean or something else? Where is this Flash 10 so I can get rid of it?

    As for RAM< it gets very heavily used/depleted - with no apps running it varies between 3-5GB & if only Mail & Safari are running then it can get into the low MB region. CPU usage on basic apps/usage is still very high & I get a fait few spikes when the fans kick in at high speed randomly & temps go crazy - much higher than on Mavericks. I still get Spinning Beach Balls & this quite upsets me as I did not think that would ever happen with a SSD?

    I do not know exactly what HFS+ is or what you are referring to but when installing High Sierra on the SSD - I followed many guides which all said to erase the SSD & then reformat with "Mac OS Extended Journalled", Partition as 1 & ensure that GUID is selected which is what I did - Is there something wrong/incorrect with my SSD set up then?

    Having real problems with the Mail App - I am beginning to detest it - if I "delete" any mail by selecting the delete trashcan icon then it goes into the Junk Folder instead of the Trash Bin/Folder BUT if I right-click & select "delete" then it does go in the Trash Bin?

    Mail that has already been opened comes again as New Mail & SO FAR, on out of 9 email accounts, one of them it now (as of today) has 8425 old emails as New Mail - this is exactly the sort of problem I really wished to avoid & was concerned about & why I asked about this possibility in point 4 of my opening post - do I now have to sift through all 8425 of them again to ensure they are on my Mac with High Sierra? I am also scared the very same will happen will all the other 8 email accounts - HELP!!

    As far as Stickies using most RAM - it can be ANY app which when opened/used that then uses a lot of RAM/CPU & then Temps go very High - Why?

    Idling Temps on Mavericks was anything between 35 to 48 degrees & on HS it is about 70 degrees or higher.

    High Sierra is completely new to me coming from Mavericks so I am still trying to figure out many things as so much has changed & it's only been a few days so please bear with me!

    Deep Thanks,

    Removal Of Said Items (Except Flash):
    Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.25.51.png Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.49.38.png

    Flash Info/Files Found Via Finder:
    Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.27.21.png Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.43.01.png Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.29.37.png

    SSD HD Info
    Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.45.42.png
    Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.46.05.png Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 22.45.21.png

    Massive Influx Of New (Old) Mail On One Email Account (So Far!)
    Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 23.01.31.png


    Attached Files:

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