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OS X vs Linux?

Mac or Linux?

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
blackf77t said:
I realize this thread is a little old, but I think it is still relevant.
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+1

(It's a shame that some people rush to dismiss content based solely on its age, without taking time to realise its value.)

It encouraged me to register and share my thoughts. I have used just about every OS you can think of professionally and personally - BSDs, Linux, BeOS, IRIS, BSDI, Windows, etc. …
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An invitation: List all of the operating systems you have used! – blackf77t, you might add some detail there; I'll be interested. Thanks.

… my daughter asked me to fix the old macbook core 2 duo … Yosemite looks great and all of the applications are simply better - Mail, Calendar, account integration, iPhoto, and iTunes. It really got me reconsidering my decision to move to Linux.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I disagree about the looks of Yosemite; that's why (linked above) I'll be interested in a more detailed list of the operating systems that you have used.

I tried a few options and settled on Linux Mint 17.1. Mint is very fast, nvidia drivers work well …
Click to expand...

Non OS X Alternatives to OS X Yosemite
  • includes praise for Mint and other alternatives
  • my own concerns about drivers – not graphics drivers alone – involve PC-BSD on Mac hardware.
… considering spending a little more money on a 11" macbook air and turning my desktop into a server. My remaining concern is the price.
Click to expand...

For value for money, I plan to get a new MacBookPro9,2. People may laugh at my preference for a slow internal drive (5400 RPM) but for performance, I expect to use ZFS in a way that will probably never be possible with Apple Core Storage – removable L2ARC, SSD on USB 3.0 (blackf77t, that's probably enough for you to get the idea).

Other topics that may be of interest:
556fmjoe said:
I fully agree about systemd, but I think there are other important differences between the BSDs and Linux. …
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I'm unfamiliar with systemd. Is there a short, fairly simple explanation of why it might be associated with dissatisfaction with Linux?

(I posted https://twitter.com/grahamperrin/status/577168484884439040 but there's no response from iTWire.)

skaertus said:
Yes, very relevant. I don't think there is a thread about OS X vs Windows which would be relevant as well.
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You might be pleasantly surprised by some of the discussion under a front page news article, Microsoft Launches Site to Lure MacBook Switchers to Surface Pro 3. There's FreeBSD, PC-BSD, Linux and so on. I watched the topic quietly for a few pages before responding to a number of points, Christmas eve Apple versus the rest.

A similar but less excited topic (this was not front page news): Switching from Mac to PC, what made you do it?

OS X 10.11

blackf77t said:
…

1.) OS X Performance - Apple could make system speed and opengl a priority in the next release. …
Click to expand...

For the next release there's not yet a sub-forum in MacRumors Forums, so I'll add speed-related thoughts under OS X Yosemite (10.10) – OS X 10.11 Wishlist (and request a move of that topic to the OS X sub-forum).
 
grahamperrin said:
Respectfully, I disagree about the looks of Yosemite; that's why (linked above) I'll be interested in a more detailed list of the operating systems that you have used.
Click to expand...
What don't you like?

I'm unfamiliar with systemd. Is there a short, fairly simple explanation of why it might be associated with dissatisfaction with Linux?
Click to expand...
The quick short simple explanation is that the Linux OS software that loads the operating system in Linux called init is old and loads programs one at a time. Systemd can load the system faster with more modern software methods. As a result, almost all Linux distributions are dropping init for systemd. The problem is that systemd doesn't just replace init, the project has had scope creep where it replaces other low level systems. This is a problem for Linux and even more for BSD. It is a problem for Linux for two reasons. First, systemd replaces multiple systems. This may be good in the short term, but it locks Linux into systemd. Linus, inventor and leader of Linux code development, has complained that systemd developers are sloppy and expect Linus to clean up after them. It is even worse news for BSD, because BSD systems generally import a large amount of software from Linux. Systemd will make that more difficult.

references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

https://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/why-do-bsd-people-fear-systemd/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/

----------
grahamperrin said:
+1

(It's a shame that some people rush to dismiss content based solely on its age, without taking time to realise its value.)



An invitation: List all of the operating systems you have used! – blackf77t, you might add some detail there; I'll be interested. Thanks.



Respectfully, I disagree about the looks of Yosemite; that's why (linked above) I'll be interested in a more detailed list of the operating systems that you have used.



Non OS X Alternatives to OS X Yosemite


For value for money, I plan to get a new MacBookPro9,2. People may laugh at my preference for a slow internal drive (5400 RPM) but for performance, I expect to use ZFS in a way that will probably never be possible with Apple Core Storage – removable L2ARC, SSD on USB 3.0 (blackf77t, that's probably enough for you to get the idea).

Other topics that may be of interest:


I'm unfamiliar with systemd. Is there a short, fairly simple explanation of why it might be associated with dissatisfaction with Linux?

(I posted https://twitter.com/grahamperrin/status/577168484884439040 but there's no response from iTWire.)



You might be pleasantly surprised by some of the discussion under a front page news article, Microsoft Launches Site to Lure MacBook Switchers to Surface Pro 3. There's FreeBSD, PC-BSD, Linux and so on. I watched the topic quietly for a few pages before responding to a number of points, Christmas eve Apple versus the rest.

A similar but less excited topic (this was not front page news): Switching from Mac to PC, what made you do it?

OS X 10.11



For the next release there's not yet a sub-forum in MacRumors Forums, so I'll add speed-related thoughts under OS X Yosemite (10.10) – OS X 10.11 Wishlist (and request a move of that topic to the OS X sub-forum).
Click to expand...

I will check out the other threads.
 
blackf77t said:
… Linux/BSD/Unix
… I do admit some concern about systemd and launchd, changing the unix design principle of doing one thing well. I think it will ultimately hurt Linux and BSD. …
Click to expand...

blackf77t said:
… The quick short simple explanation is that the Linux OS software that loads the operating system in Linux called init is old and loads programs one at a time. Systemd can load the system faster with more modern software methods. As a result, almost all Linux distributions are dropping init for systemd. The problem is that systemd doesn't just replace init, the project has had scope creep where it replaces other low level systems. This is a problem for Linux and even more for BSD. It is a problem for Linux for two reasons. First, systemd replaces multiple systems. This may be good in the short term, but it locks Linux into systemd. Linus, inventor and leader of Linux code development, has complained that systemd developers are sloppy and expect Linus to clean up after them. It is even worse news for BSD, because BSD systems generally import a large amount of software from Linux. Systemd will make that more difficult.

references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

https://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/why-do-bsd-people-fear-systemd/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/
Click to expand...

Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchd#Use_outside_OS_X confirms what I suspected about resistance to launchd, beyond Apple; but from the second point at http://www.phoronix.com/forums/show...ases-Lumina-Desktop-0-8-2&p=472462#post472462 I assume that we should not rule out the possibility of adoption by at least one of the BSDs.

I treat launchd, in modern versions of OS X, as a very good thing. Very capable, stable, and so on.

Is the technical essence of systemd so different (from the essence of launchd) that people can not imagine systemd becoming a similarly good thing?

I will check out the other threads.
Click to expand...

Again, thanks …

What don't you like?
Click to expand...

… in the 10.11 wish list you'll have seen – in a single bullet point – what is, to me, the worst aspect of 10.10. More verbose explanations are spread across various topics. Graphically, I like to compare:
Also from post (a), with emphasis:

"… I installed all available desktop environments for PC-BSD, not sure whether I delved into all of them. Certainly some of them were intentionally extremely minimalist, those were too geeky for me. A little of what I saw had more wow factor than any version of OS X. …"​

– and as far as I recall, the desktop environments that wowed me were not unique to PC-BSD; I'd expect to find them also on Linux.

----

Side note: a year or so ago I realised that some of what's in the aboutthebsds.wordpress.com domain is beyond ridiculous. That's not to dismiss the blog post above; just a general observation.
 
Last edited:
Side note: Please lets not bring systemd talk into a Mac forum this war has been going on for enough years in the Linux community there is no need for it to spill over here.

On topic: I use Macs at work, I support my wife and daughters Macs I'll be darned if I'm going to use them for myself. My main desktop dual boots Linux and OSX because I want to work from home, my portable is Linux only. Things are just easier in Linux.
 
I spent 14 years on Linux before moving to OS X. I liked Linux, but always felt that it was like going to a restaurant and having your meal prepared by 50 different chefs in 50 different kitchens and none of them collaborated on anything. Being on OS X feels like one chef prepared everything so that the items all blend with each other.
 
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lowendlinux said:
Side note: Please lets not bring systemd talk into a Mac forum this war has been going on for enough years in the Linux community there is no need for it to spill over here. …
Click to expand...

Sorry. As a Mac user who has used Linux occasionally for more than a decade, without ever hearing the word 'systemd', I did appreciate the short simple explanation. I"ll strike through the one question above.
 
grahamperrin said:
Sorry. As a Mac user who has used Linux occasionally for more than a decade, without ever hearing the word 'systemd', I did appreciate the short simple explanation. I"ll strike through the one question above.
Click to expand...

It wasn't directed at you it was just preemptive because this has been an ongoing philosophical and technical battle in the Linux world since 2010. It's caused rift and resignations in many projects and in many ways divided the community. There has been a cease fire in the last couple months mostly because systemd has won and has been integrated into most distros and will be integrated into most desktops in the near future but the systemd opponents have also delved into creating an alternate init system so there will be another battle of idea in the next 24 months. The nickle tour is systemd ignores the Unix philosophy, isn't very portable meaning it can't be used easily on the BSD's, the people who wrote it are group of polarizing Red Hat employees so there is a fear of corporate take over, it's less transparent therefore less easily mailable by system administrators, and finally it seems to be encroaching on every part of Linux even in places that init shouldn't reside to be fair to the systemd cabal they never stated that it was supposed to only be init though. IMHO the biggest reason people don't like it is Lennart Poettering and Kay Sievers are just not well liked in the community in general but both are good if not great coders.

Right now everyone is in their corners and I prefer it that way, systemd won this round it's time for all to get some water, a pep talk, and a bandaid.
 
This is an old thread, but had to type in my two cents for you know what and giggles.

Mac user for 20 plus years. First one I bought was a 512K, last was an Intel mac mini. I drank the kool-aid and bled four colours, with Gil, Steve and co at their darkest hour. Did my part to turn dozens, maybe hundreds onto Apple over Wintel from 1987 to 2012 That being said....

Completely, utterly and totally despised the shift to Intel and Intel macs. Bought three, all were garbage. Began to also hate everything about OS X around Snow Leopard, then Lion...Apple's Vista. Unusable on a two year old mac mini. Erased half my itunes Library on a fourth attempted install. Done.

Moved to Linux fulltime around 2012, which in all honesty I had been flirting with since the days of MKlinux. First revived some PowerPC macs with MintPPC and Debian, then moved onto Dell's and Think Penguins. Happy with everyone. Dell's laptops are a joy to work on, hard drive in and out in seconds, not hours. If you've ever taken apart a Powerbook or iBook to replace a hard drive you will know what I mean. Johnny Ive is a sadistic mofo.

I have no issues with software on Linux, when I needed to I ran Microsoft Office in PlayonLinux, though LibreOffice gets the job done for me now. No longer need Photoshop, GIMP is all the image editing I'll ever need. No need to worry about Apple suddenly abandoning my hardware with the next OS release. Linux=Predictability, and a thousand different distros to choose from. Can use my hardware for ten or more years if I want thanks to distros like Puppy and AnTIX.

We know now Apple threw all of its users under the bus thanks to Snowden, have zero respect for anyone in Cupertino anymore. Elegance? Ease of use? Does that really matter when you are being thrown under a bus? A prison is still a prison, no matter how pretty.

Come to think of it, why am I even here? Oh, still use some of my PowerPC macs running Tiger for real legacy type stuff, like being able to open 25 year old files. Might be a way in tux, but I can't be bothered.
 
For me, OS X is the industry supported Linux like OS that comes compatible with its HW. I run Linux Mint on other devices and will be teaching my kids Linux when they get older. Huge fan of Linux and love OS X because it's the closest thing to Linux and not Windows.
 
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I began using Kubuntu around two weeks ago. Just temporarily.

It's very slick, but – considering the sizes of the open source communities – too many bugs; its quality falls below what I expect from a modern release of an Ubuntu-based distribution of Linux.

OS X (Mavericks) wins.
 
grahamperrin said:
I began using Kubuntu around two weeks ago. Just temporarily.

It's very slick, but – considering the sizes of the open source communities – too many bugs; its quality falls below what I expect from a modern release of an Ubuntu-based distribution of Linux.

OS X (Mavericks) wins.
Click to expand...

There's your problem. You used an Ubuntu-based distribution. ;)

If you're going with Linux, Slackware FTW. That distro has Just Worked[tm] since 1993. Everything Pat and his team releases is solid and stable. I used that distro for 20 years for all my personal use until switching to OS X (my only reason for switching was I got tired of building and maintaining my own hardware). I still dabble in it from time to time, but if I were to go back to Linux, Slackware would be the choice.

After that, stay with OS X.

BL.
 
bradl said:
There's your problem. You used an Ubuntu-based distribution. ;)

If you're going with Linux, Slackware …

After that, stay with OS X.
Click to expand...

Thanks, to put this in context:
– TLDR, Kubuntu because I was very happy with KDE Plasma 4 on PC-BSD. And "I occasionally toy with pre-release macOS Sierra … but I have no desire to return to that part, or any other part, of the Apple 'ecosystem'.". A slightly longer explanation: before long I should be back on track with FreeBSD-based pre-release TrueOS Desktop. BSD is off-topic from the OS X vs Linux? question so more than that, I'll not say here :)
 
grahamperrin said:
Thanks, to put this in context:
– TLDR, Kubuntu because I was very happy with KDE Plasma 4 on PC-BSD. And "I occasionally toy with pre-release macOS Sierra … but I have no desire to return to that part, or any other part, of the Apple 'ecosystem'.". A slightly longer explanation: before long I should be back on track with FreeBSD-based pre-release TrueOS Desktop. BSD is off-topic from the OS X vs Linux? question so more than that, I'll not say here :)
Click to expand...

No worries. To paraphrase Michael Elkins, creator of the Mutt email client:

"All operating systems suck. (You just need to) choose the one that sucks less."

BL.
 
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I plan to learn more about OS X, this thread has taught me a lot....I dislike Linux and find it inferior to my preference of Windows 10, but OS X from a basic interaction has wowed me.
 
BeefCake 15 said:
You're quite harsh on Linux. Yes Windows 10 is simpler for the end user but doesn't mean it's superior to Linux. To each product its advantages and disadvantages.
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ehh.. For his use, he probably does see windows as superior, especially if that is what he cut his teeth on. Personally, I develop for linux on a daily basis and thus feel much the opposite. Any day I have to do any sort of work on Windows, I feel like I have one hand tied behind my back and it is usually a bad day.
 
After using computers in various form since the ZX80 I've learned that it's all about using the right tool for the job, like most things in life!

Running a webserver doesn't need the bloat of Windows in the same way that trying to work with a team in a corporate environment will be more difficult using Linux that it would using Windows or OSX.

OSX is a actually a good middle ground, although my NAS is based on FreeBSD and I still prefer to use this, or some Linux variant, for anything where a GUI isn't really required.

Luckily, I don't mind using any of them, although some make me swear more than others :D
 
I worked on windows, linux (ubuntu/mint) and macOS. An OS must be stable and deliver productivity on a great UI. IMHO Linux still has a long way to go. When I used linux crashes were too common. I actually felt happy reinstalling windows. Imagine that. Till 10.11.6 I found macOS stabler than windows (last version I used was win7). If you love terminal and looking for solutions with apps showing a non tuned user interface linux will suit you. If not welcome to macOS.
 
grahamperrin said:
@grandM please, what do you mean by "non tuned"?
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the GUI of different apps do not match. Someone compared it with different cooks. He is right. Pages, numbers etc also all have the save and other functionalities at the same place. Linux apps were not streamlined.
 
grandM said:
the GUI of different apps do not match. …
Click to expand...

If applications do what's required, then variations such as that rarely bother me.

I am bothered when, for example, an application does not quit in response to Control-Q.

Less bothersome: keyboard shortcuts that I know to be Mac-specific. So for example I sometimes wished to use a shortcut to minimise windows. Today I took time out to set a shortcut.
 
bradl said:
There's your problem. You used an Ubuntu-based distribution. ;)

If you're going with Linux, Slackware FTW. That distro has Just Worked[tm] since 1993. Everything Pat and his team releases is solid and stable. I used that distro for 20 years for all my personal use until switching to OS X (my only reason for switching was I got tired of building and maintaining my own hardware). I still dabble in it from time to time, but if I were to go back to Linux, Slackware would be the choice.

After that, stay with OS X.

BL.
Click to expand...

I respect PV quite a bit but right now he's swimming up stream and it's not going to get better. He needs to colaborate and get the systemd shims done or 14.2 needs to be his last release. The DE pickins that don't have hard systemd depends are getting pretty slim.

I have 14.2 running in a virtual and that's where it'll stay I just can't imagine using it as a DD.

grandM said:
I worked on windows, linux (ubuntu/mint) and macOS. An OS must be stable and deliver productivity on a great UI. IMHO Linux still has a long way to go. When I used linux crashes were too common. I actually felt happy reinstalling windows. Imagine that. Till 10.11.6 I found macOS stabler than windows (last version I used was win7). If you love terminal and looking for solutions with apps showing a non tuned user interface linux will suit you. If not welcome to macOS.
Click to expand...

grandM said:
the GUI of different apps do not match. Someone compared it with different cooks. He is right. Pages, numbers etc also all have the save and other functionalities at the same place. Linux apps were not streamlined.
Click to expand...

You have to look outside the Ubuntu world to get what you want Ubuntu isn't the only Linux and it's really not the best at anything.

grahamperrin said:
If applications do what's required, then variations such as that rarely bother me.

I am bothered when, for example, an application does not quit in response to Control-Q.

Less bothersome: keyboard shortcuts that I know to be Mac-specific. So for example I sometimes wished to use a shortcut to minimise windows. Today I took time out to set a shortcut.
Click to expand...

You have to map it in your keyboard settings I have "ctrl q" set to quit apps as well as "alt space" set to launch my launcher.

===

Linux isn't for everyone you have to want to use it and be willing to learn and by learn I don't mean where everything is in the GUI. There are books, there are video's, there are free tutorials, and classes run by the Linux foundation. IRL I'd never use a Mac because I agree with the FOSS philosophy and I'm unwilling to throw away everything I've learned and the FOSS community.
 
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