Other Mobile Phones with Similar Signal Loss Issues

[ratbatblue]

You, and everyone else acting this way, are absolutely positively delusional and should seek help. Canceled your pre order? Give me a ******* break. Unreal..

I don't need help, when I have the wise counsel of geniuses like yourself to show me the error of my ways. Thanks for setting me straight. Now I know it's delusional to expect something to work the way it's designed and marketed to work, and wrong of me to want to use accessories with it through my own choice, rather than out of necessity. How could I not have seen that before?

 

[zed]

This is the first time that Apple has had the equivalent of a BP oil spill and yet it's customers are happy to go swim in the gulf and pay for the privilege to do so.

Wow.... did you really just make this comparison?

 

[3583582]

Both my first gen iPhone and my mums relatively new Sony Ericsson does exactly the same thing.. I have no idea how this have gotten so much attention.

 

[rsocal]

Funny

Been doing this for years. Never had a signal problem.

This was to funny dude!!!

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My personal theory on the occurrence of losing service is that most of us on AT&T are in fringe networks. Covering the antenna, which is placed on the exterior of the cell phone, is negatively affecting reception like it always does. The reason why is a little more complex then just "shorting out", but it does occur when held. This has always happened with phones, and happened with my 3G as well. When I would leave it on my desk at home, it could send/receive text messages, hold calls, and transfer data. If I held it in my hand it would go to "Searching..." and to "No Service".

Bottom line, holding antenna with your hand negatively affects signal quality. The question is are you on a fringe network where a little signal loss will result in a full loss of service, or are you in a strong service are where it will drop bars but not calls?

Qualifications: I am an Electrical Engineer who studied at the University of Pittsburgh, however, I do not specialize in Radio Frequency studies.

It attenuates the signal. Your hand doesn't cause 'interference' as much as it works like a damping field... It is directly related to the frequency(s).

I remember one of the early shoplifting detection schemes that was released. People gradually figured out that if you held the tag in both hands, the detector couldn't sense the tag passing through its field. Also thieves started carrying baggies of water because it effectively stomped the signal too. The company eventually went bankrupt... Mark one up for both human ingenuity and engineering stupidity...

 

[jrbdmb]

Yes, it is. The phone works fine, and some people will stop at nothing to try and take Apple down a peg.

My iPhone 4 does not work fine. If I hold it in my left hand (which I have done with every cell phone I've owned) I lose enough signal strength to get dropped calls or fail loading web pages.

Yes, I could hold the edges of the iPhone 4 with my fingertips instead of resting it in my left palm as I have always done. But this is a workaround to a serious flaw in the iPhone 4.

But feel free to continue your assertion that the iPhone 4 is fine, any criticism is a "witch hunt", and that Apple is apparently infallible.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Here's the solution ... simple, elegant, only $59.99 at your Apple store:

Maybe if you wrapped your hand with aluminum foil???

 

[ratbatblue]

Seriously? Personal question - how tall are you? I'm 6' 1" and from the top of my left thumb to the bottom of my the muscle at the base is 5" with a hand plam down to 5.5". The 5" long iPhone 4's left side is in contact with my palm from just below the '-' volume button to the very bottom with it running out before my palm does. With fingers wrapped naturally around the phone the little finger is more often than not right at the break between the metal case.

How are you holding it that you don't touch the metal on the sides? fingertips? Just significantly smaller hands? I'm genuinely curious.

I'm 5'8", and for me, the measurements you mention are 4.5" and 5". If I were to hold the phone in my left hand, as I just tried with my 3GS, my natural grip has my thumb along the bottom 2/3 of the phone's left side, with what is the "sore spot" on the iPhone 4 resting lightly against the base of the thumb. That's actually one of two possibilities. An adjustment to that grip moves my thumb diagonally, so that the sore spot doesn't touch my hand at all. In practice, I would be changing those two grips back and forth to relieve hand cramping.

 

[dmcdan0]

I'm more concerned about the video skills of the moron who shot this video. I mean honestly, you think people would want to make it somewhat bearable to watch. Down with youtube.
Oh yes, and Apple should have innovated a way around this signal issue, its a weak response to say "just don't hold it wrong."

 

[irun5k]

probably already been asked in the last 20 pages of comments...BUT:

if the issue can be resolved with a simple case or even a piece of tape, isn't it conceivable that the phone could have been designed in such a way that this problem would never happen?

at the absolute, ridiculous bare minimum, couldn't the relevant exterior portions of the phone have been coated with some sort of high tech material, like... dunno, cellophane?

That is just me talking, if I were to make an iPhone in my garage. Certainly the most modern design and manufacturing capabilities in the world have something at their disposable beyond scotch tape.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I'm actually glad this happens because it pretty much made me buy a case and that seems like a really good idea for the iPhone 4 at this point considering you drop it once your probably shattereD

With 'Voice Command', you shouldn't need to touch the phone much...

Does Voice Command work for texting?

 

[androiphone]

awww I miss my nokia 6230 - I used it for a massive 5 years before I ever wanted to upgrade, and it is still my backup phone now, it was loyal and did everything that a phone should do without kicking up a fuss, while all my friends sony ericssons were breaking (the faulty direction pads) around me mine never once floundered and it still fully works today if/when I ever need to get it out.

but I just tested the singnal and I have to wrap both hands over the ariel and then use my legs to block it more, then the signal drops from full to one bar and then comes back up to full call quality is as good as ever all the time throughout though so must just be before it rams up the power to get a better signal.

 

[Phillysnun]

Both my first gen iPhone and my mums relatively new Sony Ericsson does exactly the same thing.. I have no idea how this have gotten so much attention.

I've had every iPhone. I've had many other phones prior. This is the FIRST phone I've owned that will, unless you are in an excellent signal range, utterly fail whent I touch it the wrong way. To call it the "same thing" is to not understand that this is a much more fundamental flaw in design for typical use.

 

[Stink Star]

It sure is hard being on top....

All I can say is that my ip4 has identical reception as my 3G and 3GS, and when I had sprint before AT&T i had waaaaayyyy more dropped calls, and since the only real competition to the ip4 is the Evo and that is sprint only, I'm better off with the ip4.... Depending on the networks around you it may be different, but for me it works fine

 

[androiphone]

Does Voice Command work for texting?

no

 

[terrywfoster]

The 2 iPhone 4's I bought both have this issue. Not that much of an issue since I will put it in an Otter Box when it comes out.

 

[yg17]

You, and everyone else acting this way, are absolutely positively delusional and should seek help. Canceled your pre order? Give me a ******* break. Unreal..

Why should somebody spend good money for a product that is clearly defective and the manufacturer calls a "non-issue"

If this was the Droid or any other phone, you people would be raking them over the coals. I can see the posts now. "OMG, the Droid doesn't work when you hold it!" or "Wow, Droid sucks, how did they screw that up? Apple would never do that!" But when it's Apple that screwed up, anyone who dares to question them and do business with a competitor is "positively delusional" and "should seek help". Sorry, but anyone who would willingly give a company money when their product has an obvious manufacturing defect that is being passed off by the CEO as a "non-issue" is the one who is positively delusional and should seek help.

 

[job2]

As someone pointed out earlier, doesn't the problem occur when you're in fringe areas? AT&T seems to suck big time. I live in Sweden, and I'm not experiencing such problems, no matter how I hold and try to cover the antenna on my 3GS. I loose a pin, at most.

 

[Jmacman78]

I just wanted to chime in here.

So yes, other phones you can lose some signal when holding the phone.

This new iPhone 4 loses all signal when held, IMO that is to the extreme and its not forgivable. I could see if it lost a bar or two.

I tested it myself, I have strong signal with 5 bars, and I am right near a tower, when I hold the phone like I normally would, the phone slowly creeps down to one or no bars.

Apple's response to this issue is complete horse crap IMO. Also, if Apple knowingly released the phone with this problem as bad as it is and created the bumpers as a way to alleviate the problem, that is pretty shi**y.

I love the phone itself but I am so extremely disappointed in Apple right now.
I will rethink buying new Apple products in the future after this.

 

[spacemanspifff]

Tape! Case! WTF!

So it seems that they are saying if I want to use my left hand with this phone that I now need to either spend more money on a case or stick a piece of tape on my brand new £500 phone - you gotta be F**king kidding!

Yes, I agree that the signal will suffer when you hold any cell phone in your hand, but not suffer to the degree that you can watch the signal drop all the way down in a few seconds until the service just disappears! I'm in the UK, so this is not just an American AT&T issue. It's a bad design defect.

I can't see a way to fix this without a redesign of the chassis. In the meantime Apple should offer a FREE bumper to anyone that wants one - just send us all a voucher in the mail. At the very least, they should allow all customers who have an issue with this to buy the bumper case at cost price [which I'm guessing is pennies].

Closing ranks and telling us to spend another £25 just to make the phone part of this new phone work is not the way to build customer loyalty!

Frankly I am amazed that Apple didn't find this out during the development of this new phone and then work out an engineering solution to fix it [before they released it]. I hope that they have people working on a chassis redesign right now.

This error could cost them millions, if they don't offer us something, I'll join the class action that is bound to be coming down the pipe, who's with me?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

probably already been asked in the last 20 pages of comments...BUT:

if the issue can be resolved with a simple case or even a piece of tape, isn't it conceivable that the phone could have been designed in such a way that this problem would never happen?

at the absolute, ridiculous bare minimum, couldn't the relevant exterior portions of the phone have been coated with some sort of high tech material, like... dunno, cellophane?

That is just me talking, if I were to make an iPhone in my garage. Certainly the most modern design and manufacturing capabilities in the world have something at their disposable beyond scotch tape.

I really doubt that Scotch tape is going to fix the attenuation issue. Duct tape, maybe. It holds the universe together after all...

Maybe putting tape on the spot where the antenna is would remind you not to put your hand there?

At some point, you just can't make a device totally reality proof. Eventually *something* is going to be found that does *something* to the signal *somehow*. Some things you just can't design away. In this attenuation problem, one *could* change the frequencies involved but that would invalidate every cell phone that is to be used for that carrier's frequencies and could potentially open a whole new issue of actually causing disease in humans. Sure, they could boost the signal too but the power really could start something that you don't want to happen... For me, I'm not going to change anything except for trying to change my hand position when I notice I'm losing the signal.

Since other phones have the same issue, this ISN'T an Apple/Steve Jobs issue. It's physics and nature. It's what happens if you were in a steel box. The signal just isn't able to penetrate your hand... Perhaps Apple could have put the internal antenna at the top of the phone but that would open a whole new issue because you have to have the proper size of the antenna for it to function. It might have been a design trade off in the placement of the antenna to save having to move things around on the top edge. On my 3GS, it's pretty busy up there already...

This is a non-issue IMO. We all need to breath in, breath out and move on...

 

[BobVB]

I'm 5'8", and for me, the measurements you mention are 4.5" and 5". If I were to hold the phone in my left hand, as I just tried with my 3GS, my natural grip has my thumb along the bottom 2/3 of the phone's left side, with what is the "sore spot" on the iPhone 4 resting lightly against the base of the thumb.

So some of its style - it would never even occur to me to naturally grip something other than with the center of gravity at the center of that grip. From your discription its like you are putting your thumb at the center of gravity and supporting it solely below that. I would feel quite insecure in my grip of something that way, the whole grip 'security' is pressing the left corner into the the base of the thumb...

Again, I blame the lack of real naked field testing with a broad range of people. Doesn't matter how many you put out for testing if you are requiring them to use them with an accessory like a case (which in one of the Gizmodo stories it was said was a requirement.)

I mean yes my 3GS lost some signal at home when held but not from 5 bars to zero bars with drop of signal.

Piss poor testing and I hope someone comes out with a 'slick' bumper (or that the  one is slicker than it looks in the pictures) Knowing the problem is fixable helps but it still going to be the most 'fraught with problems' launch of an  product in a long long time. The naysayers are going to have a field day and its going to be legitimate this time.

 

[Poll Smoker]

I really doubt that Scotch tape is going to fix the attenuation issue. Duct tape, maybe. It holds the universe together after all...

Maybe putting tape on the spot where the antenna is would remind you not to put your hand there?

At some point, you just can't make a device totally reality proof. Eventually *something* is going to be found that does *something* to the signal *somehow*. Some things you just can't design away. In this attenuation problem, one *could* change the frequencies involved but that would invalidate every cell phone that is to be used at those frequencies and could potentially open a whole new issue of actually causing disease in humans. Sure, they could boost the signal too but the power really could start something that you don't want to happen... For me, I'm not going to change anything except for trying to change my hand position when I notice I'm losing the signal.

Since other phones have the same issue, this ISN'T an Apple/Steve Jobs issue. It's physics and nature. It's what happens if you were in a steel box. The signal just isn't able to penetrate your hand...

This is a non-issue IMO. We all need to breath in, breath out and move on...

*yawn*

 

[netdoc66]

I can reproduce this problem

But I have to grip the phone aggressively. Otherwise, this phone has the best call quality of any iPhone I've ever owned So I love it. I keep getting a random no sim installed message that requires a reboot but I'm thinking it might be just a bad sim.

 

[ItsGavinC]

But I have to grip the phone aggressively. Otherwise, this phone has the best call quality of any iPhone I've ever owned So I love it. I keep getting a random no sim installed message that requires a reboot but I'm thinking it might be just a bad sim.

I CANNOT reproduce this with my iPhone (no yellow screen either!). I live in a suburb of Phoenix.