Other Mobile Phones with Similar Signal Loss Issues

[inguatu]

noooooo.....


Android is a geek phone, simple as that...and developers will never make money from open source... it's already a proven fact, AKA Sourcforge, linux... blah blah blah.

It's nothing to do with fan-ism, it's simple historical fact.

OSX was based on FREEBSD... open source. People build applications for OSX. Linux is open source. Companies are building apps for Linux. Android OS is open source, yet people are making money in the market place with their apps.

The only thing proven categorically is ignorance.

 

[Thex1138]

OSX was based on FREEBSD... open source. People build applications for OSX. Linux is open source. Companies are building apps for Linux. Android OS is open source, yet people are making money in the market place with their apps.

The only thing proven categorically is ignorance.

Yes, and now it's proprietry OS X/iOS... AKA not open source.

 

[idude1471]

I will ask apple for a refund and go back to my 3G. This is unacceptable. If a bumper is required it should be in the box. I held apple in high regard until the official statement about this issue. I'm a lefty that seems to have this problem a little worse than others. I can't use this phone with out dropping calls.

It's pretty sad when my cell phone needs to wear a condom just to function properly.. POOR MOVE APPLE.....

 

[ClearBox]

Good so far

My wife and I recently purchased iPhone 4's and have not experienced any issues so far.

As an experiment - I have not told my wife about this reception issue with some iPhone 4's. She is not very technical and also does not visit tech blogs etc.

I'm going to check-in with her on a regular basis to ask her about her phone and to see if she is having any problems.

This will give me an idea if this is truly a real issue as it relates to the daily use of the iPhone 4, or maybe just an isolated issue to a few users / devices.

Sometimes problems are amplified when people are actively going on a witch hunt.

 

[idude1471]

Wake up people... With anything else if you were told " I know your car doesn't run sir, but if you buy this condom at 10% of the cost of your car, it will be ok. Or you can change the way you drive"

That is nuts!!!!! Everyone should return these phones and stop being happy to throw your money away..

 

[0098386]

You somehow think a Wii remote is equivalent to an iPhone. Now who is mad?

The Wii remote is even cheaper than the iPhone yet Nintendo still gave out 4 per household to the (at the time) 9 million Wii owners in the world. They also gave out 4 wrist straps per household too. For free.

In comparison Apple won't ship out an even cheaper (since the Wiimote is more intricate and larger) for their much more expensive and delicate product with a major design flaw that requires the use of such a case.

It's not a mad comparison at all. It just puts Apple in a very bad light.

 

[MH01]

noooooo.....

The best thing about android is strains and groans from the owner/manufacturers to extrenuate and try to clone everything that the iphone represents... and that the iPhone already is... from hardware to software...

Android is a geek phone, simple as that...and developers will never make money from open source... it's already a proven fact, AKA Sourcforge, linux... blah blah blah.

It's nothing to do with fan-ism, it's simple historical fact.

Both have pros/cons. Anyone who cannot accept that fact is a Fanboi, either Android or Apple. Apologist are the annoying ones.

 

[jrbdmb]

This the most fabricated post of all. The point is closing the loop in a circuit connection with your hand being the middle between two antennas.

It's not about touching the system, but connecting the circuit. Put an insulator in-between your hand [we are electrical machines] and the phone will change the results.

Here's the solution ... simple, elegant, only $59.99 at your Apple store:

 

[BobVB]

yeah unacceptable

I go from 5 bars to no bars holding it normally, at the center of balance. Maybe if a person has tiny hands they don't touch both sides of the metal on the left side but my hand extends below the iPhone and touches the entire left side. Can reliably drop the call by holding the phone normally. With nerve damage in my left hand holding it out of balance just really isn't an option.

Tried the Scotch™ tape fix, still lost signal. Hold it in a micropore cleaning cloth, signal is fine.

I'm an  fan boy as much as the next guy, had a Mac first day they were for sale in 1984, but this is crap designing and testing. The only way I can figure this serious flaw got past design is the freakishly high level of security on prototypes in the lab (remember how they didn't realize that people would need a screen lock on the iPad until they were out in the field because all the ones in the labs were bolted to tables) and when they took them in the field we know they were required to put them in 3GS cases which would again mask the problem.

≥ or all their test people had itsy bitsy hands.

I've ordered a bumper but don't like the idea of a rubber ring around something I need to quickly shove in and out of a front pants pocket.

Everything else is great but that the phone is essentially unusable out of the box is a really really bad mistake that I don't know how they are going to fix.

 

[jrbdmb]

My wife and I recently purchased iPhone 4's and have not experienced any issues so far.

As an experiment - I have not told my wife about this reception issue with some iPhone 4's. She is not very technical and also does not visit tech blogs etc.

I'm going to check-in with her on a regular basis to ask her about her phone and to see if she is having any problems.

This will give me an idea if this is truly a real issue as it relates to the daily use of the iPhone 4, or maybe just an isolated issue to a few users / devices.

Sometimes problems are amplified when people are actively going on a witch hunt.

Just because you don't see the issue doesn't mean many others aren't seeing it. Speculation is that those not seeing the problem are using a different frequency (one of GSM 850, GSM 900, GSM 1800, GSM 1900) that's less prone to this problem.

And people reporting dropped calls when holding the iPhone 4 in a typical way is *NOT* a "witch hunt."

 

[locust76]

You somehow think a Wii remote is equivalent to an iPhone. Now who is mad?

He's kinda got a point. I mean, neither the Wiimote nor the iPhone 4 can make handheld telephone calls

 

[Takeo]

Yes - it's true - this can be done with any phone. In fact, I tried it on my ancient Motorola RAZR last night. Sure enough, I could make the bars go down. But I had to use both hands and completely cover the entire phone and clasp very tightly. I mean, I practically had to sit on the thing. And even then I could only get it to go down from 5 bars to 3. With the iPhone 4, just holding it lightly in a normal fashion does the trick. That's broken. Simple and plain. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the Apple Engineering department right now.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see Apple favouring design aesthetics over function. I mean, they released a round mouse for gods sake!!! Companies came out with little prosthetics you could clip on to the mouse to make it usable as as a... you know... mouse! Sound familiar? This is the same exact thing but a million times worse and more damaging. Unreal.

p.s. I LOVE the analogy that putting a 25 cent piece of rubber on a $500 phone to make it work properly is like putting a car bra on a Ferrari. Exactly.

 

[job2]

Lol, so 3G/3GS-users who experience the same problems discovered it now, 1-2 years from when they were launched? Really? (However, I'm not experiencing those problems with my 3GS, in some truly magical way. Well, if I hold my phone as it should be held that is, and not by squeezing every tiny inch of it.) This "problem" is common in about every phone out there. Cover the antenna and the reception will decrease (link).

 

[jrbdmb]

Yes - it's true - this can be done with any phone. In fact, I tried it on my ancient Motorola RAZR last night. Sure enough, I could make the bars go down. But I had to use both hands and completely cover the entire phone and clasp very tightly. I mean, I practically had to sit on the thing. And even then I could only get it to go down from 5 bars to 3. With the iPhone 4, just holding it lightly in a normal fashion does the trick. That's broken. Simple and plain. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the Apple Engineering department right now.

Or the Marketing department. As I can't imagine that Engineering wasn't already aware of the issue. Did Apple sales / marketing really imagine that people would not be seriously p****d about this?

 

[pmz]

1) Apple started out the day saying this was a software issue. Now they admit it's a hardware issue. They flat out lied.

2) They knew the phone had this problem from get go which is why they left slits for the bumpers. Even so they sold the phone without those bumpers included and no fair warning to consumers about this flaw.

3) They are as of this moment saying "it's your fault, don't hold the phone like that, buy a $30 product to fix our design flaw".

4) I never had a bumper for my 3GS, it was solid enough (made it fall several times, nada), it's ugly, useless and makes it bigger in the pocket. And people were bragging about how the iPhone is so beautiful and thinner even with the obviously ugly antenna sides...

5) For years Blackberry's and other phone's on AT&T never experienced the crazy poor coverage problems that the iPhone did. Many for years have said the problem is due to the iPhone design just as much as it is to AT&T. The fact that the iPhone 4G now has improved reception only makes this point plainly clear. For years iPhone users have suffered through crappy coverage at what now looks to be the hands of poor phone design. Maybe a point that would have been clearer sooner if it weren't for such consumer loyalty to Apple. Consumers instead have blamed AT&T all this time.

5) Despite all of this, Apple fanboy apologist try to find excuses for a compagny that gets their money. (Sucking c$ck is good yum)

That is all just nuts to me and is one of the rarest things you will see in all of retail. This is the first time that Apple has had the equivalent of a BP oil spill and yet it's customers are happy to go swim in the gulf and pay for the privilege to do so.

That final paragraph is, In my opinion, worthy of institutionalizing you. Grow up, and do not compare Apples frigging phone to an actual tragedy and disaster.

 

[ratbatblue]

Yeah, But a DROPPED Signal?

An acquaintance of mine brought her new phone in to show me yesterday afternoon, and I held it using the "Grip of Death". It took 15-20 seconds, but the signal gradually dropped off from 4 bars to nothing. We established that, for most people, even wrong-handers, it's not exactly a natural thing to hold a cell phone with the lower left corner pressed tightly into the palm of the hand. So it does seem likely that even though this is a valid defect, it probably will not bring anyone's world crashing down.

However...although I agree with Apple's (rather presumptuous) statement that any cell phone will experience some signal attenuation, due perhaps to the hand/body diverting some of the signal from the phone, I do not agree with their apparent simple dismissal of the defect in the iPhone 4 as nothing to be concerned about. There's a difference between some signal attenuation and total loss of signal to the antenna, resulting in no service. This is, again in my opinion, a major flaw, regardless of how likely one is to hold the phone in that position.

I believe Apple knew about this, and that is why their bumper exists. I think they knowingly brought a flawed product to market, and it's outrageous that they placidly say, "Just put a case, OR A PIECE OF TAPE, on it." One of the iPhone 4's big selling points is that it's aesthetically pleasing (pretty). But we're expected, or in some sense required, to cover up that beauty in order for the expensive device to function? Uh-uh, Apple. Wrong answer.

Just canceled my pre-order. Call me when when you're back in touch with reality. You'll find me on Sprint, with an Evo in my hand.

 

[Poll Smoker]

Lol, so 3G/3GS-users who experience the same problems discovered it now, 1-2 years from when they were launched? Really? (However, I'm not experiencing those problems with my 3GS, in some truly magical way. Well, if I hold my phone as it should be held that is, and not by squeezing every tiny inch of it.) This "problem" is common in about every phone out there. Cover the antenna and the reception will decrease (link).

*yawn*

 

[pmz]

Just because you don't see the issue doesn't mean many others aren't seeing it. Speculation is that those not seeing the problem are using a different frequency (one of GSM 850, GSM 900, GSM 1800, GSM 1900) that's less prone to this problem.

And people reporting dropped calls when holding the iPhone 4 in a typical way is *NOT* a "witch hunt."

Yes, it is. The phone works fine, and some people will stop at nothing to try and take Apple down a peg.

 

[pmz]

An acquaintance of mine brought her new phone in to show me yesterday afternoon, and I held it using the "Grip of Death". It took 15-20 seconds, but the signal gradually dropped off from 4 bars to nothing. We established that, for most people, even wrong-handers, it's not exactly a natural thing to hold a cell phone with the lower left corner pressed tightly into the palm of the hand. So it does seem likely that even though this is a valid defect, it probably will not bring anyone's world crashing down.

However...although I agree with Apple's (rather presumptuous) statement that any cell phone will experience some signal attenuation, due perhaps to the hand/body diverting some of the signal from the phone, I do not agree with their apparent simple dismissal of the defect in the iPhone 4 as nothing to be concerned about. There's a difference between some signal attenuation and total loss of signal to the antenna, resulting in no service. This is, again in my opinion, a major flaw, regardless of how likely one is to hold the phone in that position.

I believe Apple knew about this, and that is why their bumper exists. I think they knowingly brought a flawed product to market, and it's outrageous that they placidly say, "Just put a case, OR A PIECE OF TAPE, on it." One of the iPhone 4's big selling points is that it's aesthetically pleasing (pretty). But we're expected, or in some sense required, to cover up that beauty in order for the expensive device to function? Uh-uh, Apple. Wrong answer.

Just canceled my pre-order. Call me when when you're back in touch with reality. You'll find me on Sprint, with an Evo in my hand.

You, and everyone else acting this way, are absolutely positively delusional and should seek help. Canceled your pre order? Give me a ******* break. Unreal..

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My 3GS does it too...

I never realized that it could be ME that was killing the signal that I blamed AT&T for not having...

I mean, don't get me wrong, AT&T DOES suck (except for their local customer service) BUT now I will try to see if it's my human hands harshing the ether...

I even got a microcell because the signal was so abysmal here. I turned it off and even with holding my phone by the very bottom with only two fingers the unadulterated signal still blows...

 

[Poll Smoker]

Yes, it is. The phone works fine, and some people will stop at nothing to try and take Apple down a peg.

Is it hard to type with Jobs' b*lls on your chin?

 

[sefs]

Radio frequency reception is an interesting beast. Electricity, magnetism, and field theory are also equally interesting. These subjects are studied by electrical engineers for four years before they get the entry level qualification to work in positions involving these subject areas. The point being, these are complex sciences, that lay explanations like "the hand is creating a short circuit", do not come close to accurately answering signal loss phenomena.

My personal theory on the occurrence of losing service is that most of us on AT&T are in fringe networks. Covering the antenna, which is placed on the exterior of the cell phone, is negatively affecting reception like it always does. The reason why is a little more complex then just "shorting out", but it does occur when held. This has always happened with phones, and happened with my 3G as well. When I would leave it on my desk at home, it could send/receive text messages, hold calls, and transfer data. If I held it in my hand it would go to "Searching..." and to "No Service".

Bottom line, holding antenna with your hand negatively affects signal quality. The question is are you on a fringe network where a little signal loss will result in a full loss of service, or are you in a strong service are where it will drop bars but not calls?

Qualifications: I am an Electrical Engineer who studied at the University of Pittsburgh, however, I do not specialize in Radio Frequency studies.

 

[Takeo]

Yes, it is. The phone works fine, and some people will stop at nothing to try and take Apple down a peg.

You're kidding right? I'm as big a "fanboy" as you'll find. I've been using Mac's since 1994. I've never owned a PC. I bought the iPad the day it came out. But this problem is inexcusable. Some attenuation is normal but I have to practically sit on my old RAZR to get it to drop from 5 to 3 bars. Some people are getting the iPhone 4 to lose all signal within seconds by holding it normally in the left hand! That's insane.

 

[BobVB]

We established that, for most people, even wrong-handers, it's not exactly a natural thing to hold a cell phone with the lower left corner pressed tightly into the palm of the hand.

Seriously? Personal question - how tall are you? I'm 6' 1" and from the top of my left thumb to the bottom of my the muscle at the base is 5" with a hand plam down to 5.5". The 5" long iPhone 4's left side is in contact with my palm from just below the '-' volume button to the very bottom with it running out before my palm does. With fingers wrapped naturally around the phone the little finger is more often than not right at the break between the metal case.

How are you holding it that you don't touch the metal on the sides? fingertips? Just significantly smaller hands? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

ratbatblue...

Y'all need to take a pill...

Ever since the industry got away from the external antenna, the possibility for human attenuation of the received signal has existed. I never believed that it could be this pronounced... I can take my 3GS from 5 to zero bars in seconds. I am invincible, feel my wrath!

It's probably the nature of the beast, and every device will experience this problem. It makes me wonder if this is the root of the iPad wi-fi problems too...

I remember the same thing when I got one of those big-ass satellite dishes in the 90's. My neighbor had a beautiful yard full of huge maple and oak trees that were actually rather on the tallish side (any vegetation kills the satellite signal). The idiot installer told me that I'd have to raise my dish in the future to clear their trees but if I didn't want to spend the money, he knew of a way to guarantee their trees died. I should just call him and *POOF* with in days the trees would be dead. I was horrified... And, no, I am not cutting my hand off to save the signal... It does make me wonder what that signal is doing to my body though. Doesn't the iPhone boost the power when it thinks their is a weak signal?

I read where Richard Branson doesn't let his phone come anywhere near his head (probably afraid of sparks setting off the hydrogen?) and that sounded loony before. Maybe it's making more sense now.

I would think that there is more data now to make an informed decision if phones actually do cause issues in the human body... The problem was that in the original investigation there wasn't enough people that had them and used them as much as now...