Other Mobile Phones with Similar Signal Loss Issues

[BobVB]

My question is if it's an issue of where you're holding the phone, why does a bumper fix it?

Because its an 'enough' issue - as long as you have enough of a signal the underlying software defect that won't let you keep connected never kicks in.

The 'shorting' causes a significant drop in signal strength greater than merely holding the phone - in an area where you are 'just barely' 5 bars it can take you down to where the phone should be kicking in to keep you connected and either isn't or is doing it wrong.

The bumper stops the antenna shorting so greatly reduces the times when your signal is dropping low enough to hit the problem handling routines. The problem is still there, you just aren't activating it as often or at all.

 

[BigPrince]

Does the iPhone "manual" demonstrate proper and improper use of the phone and is this listed under improper use?


if it is not listed under improper use, then this would clearly demonstrate to me that this is a design flaw.

 

[Thex1138]

You're all looking at it the wrong way....

You are not supposed to give your iPhone the Vulcan Nerve-Pinch Grip... Be Gentle with the precious

 

[zeeko30]

Test with Speed Test app

I apologize if this has already been said, I admit I only read 3 pages of comments.

Do not rely on the signal strength bars to test your iPhone for this issue. Please try using a speed testing app that checks your upload and download speeds. I recommend Speed Test, the app from the people of speedtest.net

When I run the Speed Test while setting the phone down or holding in my right hand, I am getting spectacular 3G speed. The results are shown in real time with a graphic that looks like a speedometer in a car which measures Mbps. While the test is running, put your finger or palm over the black band on the lower left side of the phone.

For me the results are undeniable and stunning. The speed test needle dips instantly and dramatically. When I remove my finger the needle races up to higher Mbps. You can even stall out the data transfer all together, this is not a minor signal loss.

I personally love the iPhone 4 so much for all that it offers I probably will drink the koolaid and try to hold it different, and my wife was probably goin to get the bumper case anyway. I just enjoy the phone too much to give it up. But this is very disappointing!

One positive out of the speed test: when holding the phone "correctly," I am getting about 3.5Mbps down and 1.5Mbps up! I think those are great numbers, my iPhone 3G got about 1.5 up and 0.4 down. My cable internet only gets 1Mbps down!

 

[macsmurf]

My question is if it's an issue of where you're holding the phone, why does a bumper fix it? The only thing a bumper does is keep your skin from making contact with the device. If it relieves the problem then simple logic suggests the problem isn't where you hold it but rather where your skin makes contact with it. No knowledge of how antennas function is required to test or deduce this.

It takes a certain degree of salesmanship to on one hand suggest you're blocking the signal with your hand just like any other phone while at the same time saying that purchasing something that adds an additional layer of material around the antenna will correct the problem.

And/or religious fervor.

 

[beantown6171]

If you take in the phone, demonstrate the problem, chances are they'll swap it with a brand new one.

They're good that way.

ya i went to the apple store he gave me a new one and it did the same thing,he told me to just keep m,y original one and he would get me a bumper but they were sold out,he gave me a 1-800 number to call and i told them i wanted to talk to a senior advisor and that i refuse to buy a bumper, he took my infomation and is sending me a free bumper

 

[pmz]

I don't need help, when I have the wise counsel of geniuses like yourself to show me the error of my ways. Thanks for setting me straight. Now I know it's delusional to expect something to work the way it's designed and marketed to work, and wrong of me to want to use accessories with it through my own choice, rather than out of necessity. How could I not have seen that before?

It does work, just fine. It's your problem for being duped into thinking it doesn't. Again, its your problem.

 

[pmz]

Why should somebody spend good money for a product that is clearly defective and the manufacturer calls a "non-issue"

If this was the Droid or any other phone, you people would be raking them over the coals. I can see the posts now. "OMG, the Droid doesn't work when you hold it!" or "Wow, Droid sucks, how did they screw that up? Apple would never do that!" But when it's Apple that screwed up, anyone who dares to question them and do business with a competitor is "positively delusional" and "should seek help". Sorry, but anyone who would willingly give a company money when their product has an obvious manufacturing defect that is being passed off by the CEO as a "non-issue" is the one who is positively delusional and should seek help.

Because it is not CLEARLY DEFECTIVE. If it was CLEARLY DEFECTIVE, it wouldn't have just went on sale to probably upwards of 3 million people.

 

[pmz]

So Apple says: "Don't hold it that way!"

Yet in their very own ads...

http://www.twitpic.com/1zs2jp

Guess what. The phone ********** works, even if you hold that it. Maybe not yours, but then again, maybe there's something wrong with you, not the phone?

 

[drjac]

My Experience with Iphone 3G and Iphone4

I´ve had always have problems with Iphones and ATT in my area. ATT introduced an app to monitor drop calls and poor quality. I have constantly used the app to let them know of my multiple connection problems. Problems that other family members with other phone don´t have in the same areas at the same time. My phone was change twice for a new one and never solved the drop call issue. I love Iphone tech and apps, but as a phone it leaves a lot to be desired. I had high hopes for Iphone4, but after 2 days of use in different locations, I believe it performs worst than the 3G and 3Gs. Something is wrong with the communications part of this phone, maybe the antenna or the protocol for selecting cell frequency, but it does not work as well as other phones.
Sorry Apple, but you have to clear this out, otherwise many as me will be returning a beautiful piece of engineering that fails as a reliable phone.
A loyal Apple User

 

[distortedloop]

went out to an area with über AT&T coverage - I could hold the phone and it never dipped below 5 bars. I think the speculations are probably correct this is a compound problem:

1) the natural attenuation of signal when any cell phone is held,

Yes, that's been my premise all along, glad we're on the same page here.

2) the additional attenuation if the hand 'shorts' the iPhone 4 antenna, but most important,
3) the iPhone 4 iOS 4 is not properly handling the dwindling signal well - it isn't aggressively trying to maintain the signal or switch to a more powerful signal.

Secretive testing with iPhone 4's in 3GS cases in very 3G enabled Silicon Valley effectively masked this problem until wide release.

As has been rumored I bet this is primarily a software fix and if the antenna touching still causes too much of a signal strength dip for some, the bumpers should fix the rest or at least put them on par with other cell phones.

But the problem with "aggressively trying to maintain the signal" is going to be REDUCED BATTERY LIFE, at which point the whiners will be out in force blasting Apple for lousy battery life, don't you think?

Perhaps Apple should give you a similar option in the iPhone settings that you get with the Airport Express units - an option of "interference robustness" which gives you the option of picking stronger signal or longer range. I doubt that would happen, though, Apple thinks iPhone customers are ignorant and can't figure out advanced features on their phones.

 

[dmelgar]

It's hard to believe Apple could have not known about this problem but if they were always using those cases in the real world testing to disguise it then it would make more sense. But really. Does Apple not employ or contract with anyone who knows about cell phone antennas or antennas in general who voiced a theoretical worry about grounding out the signal with your hand? Makes you shake your head at this potential blunder.

I'm wondering too. How could they possibly not have known about this?
Secrecy could have been part of the problem as you say... always using it in a case. But what about on the Apple campus? Do they just have a very strong signal there?

It does put the keynote in a different light. I wonder if thats why the network failed. For all his complaining about WiFi hotspots, the iPhone 3GS seemed to work fine during the keynote.

 

[jerry333]

I can replicate the issue. If I hold the side, Speedtest won't even connect. However, Apple has always been good to me with support, so I'm willing to give them a few days to rectify the problem before declaring foul.

FWIW, I'm right handed but I hold the phone in my left hand so that I can use my right hand to work the screen or jot down notes--but that's when I hold the phone in my hand--mostly I use a headset so holding the phone isn't an issue.

I used the case from the original iPhone on the 4G and the problem disappears. (Yes, some field engineering is required--but it's free and it works).

<rant>IMHO, the problem with the "bumper" solution is that I keep my iPhone in my shirt pocket. Where I work there are "corporate standards" which sets air conditioning to 78F. Of course it's only that cool right next to the vents. A case that protects the iPhone from sweat is mandatory since Apple doesn't warranty water damage. I suspect that the 78F standard works fine in New York where you only sweat a couple of weeks a year, but one-size-fits all is a terrible way to economize because it only economizes in a few locations and costs a lot more in others such as Florida, Louisiana, or Texas. Federal highway funding demands asphalt roads which melt here in about a year so every couple of years they redo all the federally funded highways. Roads that are built with local funds use concrete and last for thirty years--another example of New York thinking </rant>

 

[distortedloop]

Because it is not CLEARLY DEFECTIVE. If it was CLEARLY DEFECTIVE, it wouldn't have just went on sale to probably upwards of 3 million people.

I disagree! There is no way in Hell that Apple would have missed the shipping date they promised as the release date if this "design flaw" was discovered too close to the launch, assuming they even knew about it until the million or so first day owners got the phone in hand and gave it some real world testing. The media and fanboys would have torn Apple to shreds in the press and the blogs if they missed the launch date and the stock would have taken a beating.

Apple would have just gambled that most people wouldn't notice - and outside of these forums, I'll be most people don't. Apple would also have assumed that the amazing, wonderful, fabulous "retina display" would wow people so much they'd look the other way (pun intended) on this issue.

Apple's secrecy probably bit them in the butt here. They play the iPhones so close to the vest that only a handful of people (Pogue, Mossberg, Ihnatko, etc) get to actually use one for any amount of time before the public release. No real world testing by large numbers of people in diverse areas. The infamous "bar iPhone" was covered in a case to make it look like a 3G phone - this clearly masked the shorting issue as the tester didn't make skin contact with the phone in the real world.

Sprint and Google were clever with the EVO 4G - they gave out thousands of them to developers, FOR FREE, weeks before the launch. There was plenty of real-world testing by hardcore users that revealed a serious flaw with the SDcard. Because of that testing, Sprint was able to have the software fix for the problem ready as an OTA (over the air) pushed fix the day the phone launched!

Imagine how much less press this Apple business would be getting if a large number of people had used the phone before it went on sale and Apple had had a fix ready for it on launch day as part of the iTunes-required activation process. This would be a non-issue, if it is indeed fixable with software.

 

[distortedloop]

Guess what. The phone ********** works, even if you hold that it. Maybe not yours, but then again, maybe there's something wrong with you, not the phone?

No need to be nasty. Some people have different natural conductivity in their skin, sweatier palms, whatever. I haven't had this issue in real world use of the phone yet, but there's clearly an issue for lots of folks.

Even if those with the problem are a small percentage of users, a small percentage of a million devices sold in the last few days adds up to thousands of people or more. Many probably haven't even noticed the problem (like me, until reading about it here) and I'll bet a large number of them that did just blamed AT&T, as is popular to do when iPhones (of any model) get lousy reception or drop calls.

 

[trssho]

oK, so I just got off the phone with another agent. Long and short was she said to expect an announcement tonight.

OK, guess that didn't happen. I am sure an official announcement will be forthcoming, as this problem has become viral between the www and TV news.

Think I am going to start my first official poll. How is apple going to fix problem?

 

[kdarling]

Secrecy could have been part of the problem as you say... always using it in a case. But what about on the Apple campus? Do they just have a very strong signal there?

Rumors say Apple HQ had poor ATT reception back when the iPhone project started, so they installed a cell on campus.

It does put the keynote in a different light. I wonder if thats why the network failed. For all his complaining about WiFi hotspots, the iPhone 3GS seemed to work fine during the keynote.

You bring up an interesting question. Does the same problem occur with WiFi?

 

[AidenShaw]

"Death Grip"

The picture of Jobs was a teaser on the front page of today's Mercury News, and the other was a half-page story on the front of the business section (there were about 12 column inches of story which didn't fit on the scanner).

Doesn't look like this issue is going to disappear on its own....

 

[distortedloop]

You bring up an interesting question. Does the same problem occur with WiFi?

I was able to drop the WiFi signal strength indicator by one bar 4 times in a row by shorting the antennas with my hand just now, but the next 5 tries I couldn't, so nothing conclusive here. I'm connecting to an 802.11n Apple router, btw. I was also able get the WiFi signal to drop from where I am at by just moving the phone an arm's length from its original test position, but again, it's not doing it now, so nothing conclusive with that either, imo.

Also, even with the "nickel test", I can't get the WiFi to drop now, just the 3G signal.

Interestingly, unlike my tests in the office yesterday, where AT&T signal strength is very strong, and it took over a minute before I could get the 3G signal indicator to drop, it happens here at home in under 5 seconds. I go from 5 bars to 3 bars in 4-5 seconds, and then to 0 bars in another 5 seconds or so. Note that I never get to the No Service level.

Also worth mentioning is that even with 0 bars displayed I had no problems getting test phone calls made to the iPhone 4.

 

[BobVB]

I found an old 3GS silicon case I used before I got it Ghost Armored, put the 4 in it and now when I hold it I drop 1 bar out of 5, not down to nothing - so antenna shorting is a big part of the problem for me and since holding it by 3 fingers like a princess is not an option I have a bumper on order.

But the problem with "aggressively trying to maintain the signal" is going to be REDUCED BATTERY LIFE, at which point the whiners will be out in force blasting Apple for lousy battery life, don't you think?

Maybe - from what I understand it is a software problem - your 3GS did always aggressively try and keep the signal and it is mostly a mess up in their new attempt to let the phone pass off to a cell tower that might not be strongest but has less load than the strongest that isn't working right. So even if you are shorting out the antennas you shouldn't see the 'drop like a rock to no signal and dropped call' behavior if they fix this. How much it reduces your battery life will depend on how often you are in that sort of a reception area I guess. Like I said, last night in a high coverage area I could hold the phone as I usually did and even that didn't drop it below 5 bars. This does look like more a software 'oops' than a fundamental flaw.

I can see the next model having some sort of coating on the stainless steel.

I bet we have engineers with cancelled weekend plans and we'll see 4.01 iOS very very soon which will solve the immediate issue.

 

[DMann]

ya i went to the apple store he gave me a new one and it did the same thing,he told me to just keep m,y original one and he would get me a bumper but they were sold out,he gave me a 1-800 number to call and i told them i wanted to talk to a senior advisor and that i refuse to buy a bumper, he took my infomation and is sending me a free bumper

Try swapping it again after two weeks time - the later shipments of phones may have addressed the problem.

 

[madmax_2069]

This is simple

Your body produces a electrical current that interferes with a cell phones reception when your hand comes into contact with the antenna. If i touch the antenna on my cell phone the signal drops allot (almost to a single bar in most places or completely kills the signal).

That is why you should get one of those rubber cases (or even use tape), That alone keeps you from touching the sides (which is the antenna on the iPhone 4) and it will keep you from getting interference from your body.

 

[distortedloop]

This is simple

Your body produces a electrical current that interferes with a cell phones reception when your hand comes into contact with the antenna. If i touch the antenna on my cell phone the signal drops allot (almost to a single bar in most places or completely kills the signal).

Yeah, we all figured that out a few hundred posts ago. ;-) Apple even said the same thing to PCMag on Thursday evening.

That is why you should get one of those rubber cases (or even use tape), That alone keeps you from touching the sides (which is the antenna on the iPhone 4) and it will keep you from getting interference from your body.

But that's ridiculous. You really think that someone should have to use tape on their brand new $600 cell phone to get it to work?

As for rubber cases and rubber bumpers, I've never used them on prior iPhones because part of the pleasure of owning an iPhone is its industrial design. Now, to make it work i have to cover up that industrial design with an ugly rubber case or an ugly rubber bumper? Really? Then what's the point of the beautiful industrial design?

Cases and bumpers are fine if you WANT to use them...they should not be NECESSARY to use just to get your $600 device to actually work as advertised.

Whether you're a fanboy, a hater, a troll, or someone reasonable, you have to admit that as released to the public, the iPhone has some design flaw - it may be hardware, it may be software, or it may be a combination of both, but there's something not-quite-right about things right now if you have to use tape or a rubber case or hold the phone unnaturally to make a call.

 

[distortedloop]

Maybe - from what I understand it is a software problem - your 3GS did always aggressively try and keep the signal and it is mostly a mess up in their new attempt to let the phone pass off to a cell tower that might not be strongest but has less load than the strongest that isn't working right.

Well, to my original point, the 3G wasn't renowned for having fantastic battery life, was it? May have been better than earlier iPhones, but nothing to write home about. I could never make it through the day with mine unless I had a charger or battery pack around. The same's true for my Nexus One as well. Amazingly, my EVO has extraordinary battery life as long as I leave the 4G radio off), but it's got the biggest battery of the three (in mah) I believe.

I bet we have engineers with cancelled weekend plans and we'll see 4.01 iOS very very soon which will solve the immediate issue.

I wonder how many engineers Jobs fired over this.

 

[madmax_2069]

you have to admit that as released to the public, the iPhone has some design flaw - it may be hardware, it may be software, or it may be a combination of both, but there's something not-quite-right about things right now if you have to use tape or a rubber case or hold the phone unnaturally to make a call.

It is a major design flaw that should have been seen (and fixed) before they even finished designing it.

All they had to do was put a hard clear plastic coating over the antenna or something similar to insulate it from contact, but still maintaining the overall look and feel of the original design.

Do you think they might offer the above as a repair option later down the road (that is if people complain enough to Apple for a faulty design).

I seen the issue coming when the leaked photos and info of the iPhone 4 was shown (before most reviews or any of this began). A exposed antenna (such as with the iPhone 4) is never a good design.

I am defiantly not a troll or other form of puke inducing hater, nor am i any fanboy. i consider myself as someone semi reasonable.

Having anyone tell people how to hold a iPhone or any cell phone in general was more like a slap in the face then anything else.