"Other" workout registers excerise while sitting

[Night Spring]

Um. You know we're talking about running actual workouts, right? The heart rate monitor is 100% active while you're in the middle of a workout started on Apple Watch.

Actually, while I did start this thread to point out how the Other workout gives you exercise and activity credit for doing nothing, my frustration is with Apple watch's activity tracking in general. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm happy with discussing any aspect of watch activity tracking.

 

[thefredelement]

Actually, while I did start this thread to point out how the Other workout gives you exercise and activity credit for doing nothing, my frustration is with Apple watch's activity tracking in general. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm happy with discussing any aspect of watch activity tracking.

That was like a thread I made, I chatted with Apple and they said I didn't need to start a workout on the Watch to get credit for it - I asked because I prefer to use 3rd party apps like Nike + Running & Strava. Both of those apps support bluetooth HRM, but they don't write heart rate data to Health. They said I should calibrate the watch though - I did that yesterday and will again today on a walk this evening.

So I'm going to get a chest strap and hook it up to those apps & the Watch. I'm not sure if the watch will get the heart rate from the strap if an app is also getting it.

Effectively this relegates the watch to a tiny iPhone remote (for me) but I guess I don't have to fuss around with it to change the music...

 

[Betsy30]

I chatted with Apple and they said I didn't need to start a workout on the Watch to get credit for it.

I'm going to try doing my weight workout tonight without starting Workout and see what happens. I did 30 minutes of weights on Sunday using the Other setting and got credit for all of it as exercise. My workout should be closer to an hour tonight. We shall see what happens.

 

[Lictor]

The heart rate is important but unfortunately it is not working well. When on a run my heart rate varies from 135 and then down to 62 over and over high then low no matter how I wear the watch.

Same here... It went up to 200 while I was just walking and then all the way back to 60 minutes after while I was waiting for the green light... It's not very consistent..
But then, it's just a watch and it has access to very limited data. For instance, HR can vary for a lot of reason. If I'm seated doing something stressful, it can actually go quite high. And then, if I get up for a walk, it will actually go down as stress level diminished and vessels are opening again... The fact that the watch is actually right most of the time is already pretty incredible, it will never be right 100% of the time...

 

[Julien]

Same here... It went up to 200 while I was just walking and then all the way back to 60 minutes after while I was waiting for the green light... It's not very consistent.....

When slightly loose I would get high HR readings during running. Now I tighten up the strap one notch (snug) before a run and push up my wrist about ½". I get accurate and almost identical HR reading as my Garmin 620.

Today I did an easy 6.5 mile run and my Garmin 620 had my average HR at 148 and my Watch was also 148. It is almost always within 3BPM of my Garmin 620. I am completely amazed at how accurate the optical HR monitor on the Watch can be when worn (snug and up wrist) and used correctly.

 

[flur]

You guys are not getting the point though. The point isn't what is and what isn't an exercise. The point is that the same instrument measures the same activity very differently. If I'm just going for a casual walk, and choose "outdoor walk," I don't expect to be burning loads of calories. But if I don't choose "outdoor walk" and just start walking, I DO expect the watch to tell me I've burned a similar amount of calories as when I chose "outdoor walk." It doesn't. And that is why people are upset.

I'm finding the walking is crediting just fine either way (workout app or no workout app). BUT when I go out for a walk, I'm not taking it easy, I'm working up a sweat, because that's exercise. When I go out with my dog, it credits me nothing, because we're stopping every 30 seconds for him to sniff or pee on something. That's the same for 1.01 and 1.00.

 

[Julien]

I'm finding the walking is crediting just fine either way (workout app or no workout app). BUT when I go out for a walk, I'm not taking it easy, I'm working up a sweat, because that's exercise.....

Last Saturday I did a run (10.5 miles) and ended it at a grand opening festival for a trail system. It is exactly 1 mile from my house. I set my Workout to Outdoor Walk (my first and just to get another activity gold Star) and walked home. I got full Exercise credit for the 15 minutes of walking time and this was after a LONG run.

Most people just don't understand that to reach a 'brisk walk' achievement requires extra effort beyond a 'normal' walking pace.

 

[Lictor]

When slightly loose I would get high HR readings during running. Now I tighten up the strap one notch (snug) before a run and push up my wrist about ½". I get accurate and almost identical HR reading as my Garmin 620.

That might be that. I haven't worn a watch for 25 years, so it tends to be uncomfortable if it's too snug and I wear it pretty loose.

 

[Julien]

That might be that. I haven't worn a watch for 25 years, so it tends to be uncomfortable if it's too snug and I wear it pretty loose.

You have to wear it like this to get accurate HR. If not then you would need to get a BT HR chest strap in order to get an accurate reading.

 

[Night Spring]

Most people just don't understand that to reach a 'brisk walk' achievement requires extra effort beyond a 'normal' walking pace.

I think most people would understand that a brisk walk requires more effort than a normal walk -- that's basically the definition of a brisk walk, isn't it? The problem is trying to figure out how fast we have to walk before the watch considers it exercise. For instance, my "fast" walk might be the same speed as your "normal" walk.

 

[thefredelement]

There was talk on MR early on about how the watch learned your resting HR and thus could automatically determine that you're exercising because your heart rate is not resting. I guess that's not the case anymore? Or who knows if it was in the first place. It sounds like a good way for it to work though.

 

[flur]

I think most people would understand that a brisk walk requires more effort than a normal walk -- that's basically the definition of a brisk walk, isn't it? The problem is trying to figure out how fast we have to walk before the watch considers it exercise. For instance, my "fast" walk might be the same speed as your "normal" walk.

This is a question that can be answered. I suspect it's darn close to a 15 minute mile (which is REALLY fast for a walk) to get the credit. It's for sure at least a 20 minute mile, but I'm think even that might not credit. I always get credit for my walk to my Pilates class - it's about a 10 minute walk, so I'll set a workout tonight before I head to class and I'll let you know what my pace is.

 

[Night Spring]

This is a question that can be answered. I suspect it's darn close to a 15 minute mile (which is REALLY fast for a walk) to get the credit. It's for sure at least a 20 minute mile, but I'm think even that might not credit. I always get credit for my walk to my Pilates class - it's about a 10 minute walk, so I'll set a workout tonight before I head to class and I'll let you know what my pace is.

Thanks. I assume you'll be using the Outdoor Walk setting? I might try doing a Outdoor Walk with a goal of say, a quarter of a mile, and then walk as fast as I can, just to see how long it takes me. Hm, should I try a quarter, or a tenth?

 

[Betsy30]

Well, my resting HR seems to be running in the low to mid 60s. I just spent over an hour in the gym with my HR ranging from 111 to 128 and that got me 1-2 minutes of Exercise. I did not use Workout. Believe me, I will in the future. This is crazy.

 

[millerrh]

Well, my resting HR seems to be running in the low to mid 60s. I just spent over an hour in the gym with my HR ranging from 111 to 128 and that got me 1-2 minutes of Exercise. I did not use Workout. Believe me, I will in the future. This is crazy.

I know! I don't like that it is forcing you to use a workout mode to get any credit. On the other hand, if you are diligent about your workout routines and DO use the workout app, you can get a pretty good idea of when you actually went to the gym and worked out and when you didn't.

Ever so slightly warming to the idea of this to help me encourage me to do actual workouts and not rely on treks up stairs or long walks to the grocery store to give me any meaningful credit. Apple just needs to change their whole marketing campaign to get rid of the notion that this thing works passively at all.

 

[flur]

Thanks. I assume you'll be using the Outdoor Walk setting? I might try doing a Outdoor Walk with a goal of say, a quarter of a mile, and then walk as fast as I can, just to see how long it takes me. Hm, should I try a quarter, or a tenth?

So I walk faster than I'd thought - a 15 minute mile. I seemed to vary to slightly faster and slightly slower but kept around 15 the whole time. So...maybe try that pace and see if you get credit?

ETA - yes, I used the outdoor walk workout to test. But it credits me at that pace even if I don't use a workout.

 

[Night Spring]

So I walk faster than I'd thought - a 15 minute mile. I seemed to vary to slightly faster and slightly slower but kept around 15 the whole time. So...maybe try that pace and see if you get credit?

ETA - yes, I used the outdoor walk workout to test. But it credits me at that pace even if I don't use a workout.

Well, I didn't have a chance to do an outdoor walk today, but I did try an indoor walk for a quarter of a mile. I walked at what for me is an above average speed, and it took me 5 minutes. So that is a 20- minute mile, right? I don't think I can hit a 15-minute mile unless I run!

So maybe if the watch is now defining walking exercise only by pace, that is why I have so much trouble filling up the exercise circle since the update? Perhaps before the update, it was crediting exercise for a 20-minute mile, or maybe factoring in other metrics such as heart rate?

 

[Julien]

Well, I didn't have a chance to do an outdoor walk today, but I did try an indoor walk for a quarter of a mile. I walked at what for me is an above average speed, and it took me 5 minutes. So that is a 20- minute mile, right? I don't think I can hit a 15-minute mile unless I run!

So maybe if the watch is now defining walking exercise only by pace, that is why I have so much trouble filling up the exercise circle since the update? Perhaps before the update, it was crediting exercise for a 20-minute mile, or maybe factoring in other metrics such as heart rate?

Not sure of you physical *limitations or metrics but a 20 minute mile is only 3MPH. The average normal walking speed is 3.1MPH. So you are actually walking slower than the average person walks to their car. This is not anywhere near the 'brisk walk' threshold so why would you expect it to count as exercise minutes?


*I'm sure Apple algorithms account and adjust the relative 'brisk walk' threshold based on personal metrics (age, sex weight and hight).

 

[Night Spring]

Not sure of you physical *limitations or metrics but a 20 minute mile is only 3MPH. The average normal walking speed is 3.1MPH. So you are actually walking slower than the average person walks to their car. This is not anywhere near the 'brisk walk' threshold so why would you expect it to count as exercise minutes?

*I'm sure Apple algorithms account and adjust the relative 'brisk walk' threshold based on personal metrics (age, sex weight and hight).

Well, ithe watch was counting imy "fast" waking as exercise under 1.0.

I'm a woman, small, and have a physical disability. So, yes, I walk slower than the average person. I think before the update, the watch was correctly crediting me for what was a brisk walk FOR ME. I think what happened is that other people were getting over credited for exercise, so Apple adjusted the exercise threshold upwards. Now people with limited mobility have no way to move the exercise circle.

As I keep saying, the exercise threshold needs to be adjustable. If Apple has an algorithm that automatically adjusts this, it isn't working.

 

[Julien]

Well, ithe watch was counting imy "fast" waking as exercise under 1.0.

I'm a woman, small, and have a physical disability. So, yes, I walk slower than the average person. I think before the update, the watch was correctly crediting me for what was a brisk walk FOR ME. I think what happened is that other people were getting over credited for exercise, so Apple adjusted the exercise threshold upwards. Now people with limited mobility have no way to move the exercise circle.

As I keep saying, the exercise threshold needs to be adjustable. If Apple has an algorithm that automatically adjusts this, it isn't working.

In 1.0 the Watch was vastly overestimating exercise (it still is IMO) and has been (more) corrected in 1.01.

Algorithms for determining Workout thresholds (‘Brisk Walk’) are not dynamic or adjustable, nor should they be. They are set by scientific studies and not an individual’s preference or subjective opinion.

The Workout (‘Brisk Walk’) thresholds algorithms are set by your metrics. Here is an example of the way it might work.

Male, 25, 6’, 185 lbs might have a ‘brisk walk’ = 13:30 minute mile
Female, 65, 5’3”, 130 lbs might have a ‘brisk walk’ = 17:00 minute mile

Apple is moving into poorly understood and studied territory (deconditioned athletes/oxymoron-ish) but seems to be striking a good first effort balance. The general population has not been studied as well as the athletic community. The BIG problem is establishing baselines. This is extremely difficult or impossible and often dangerous to do with deconditioned individuals. Establishing baselines like VO2 Max and Maximal HR are extremely painful (poor lactic acid tolerance) for deconditioned individuals and because of possible heart (and other) conditions/problems a physician should to be present.

Apple appears to be putting a good effort in trying to gather enough metrics to make the Watch a good exercise indicator to the general population. For me (and any athlete) the ‘Brisk Walk’ Apple is using is a super low bar to be considered as exercise.

I would like to see Apple take more metrics into account like body ratio (body fat) and general condition. This way Apple might offer better deconditioned Algorithms while using more challenging goals for athletes.

 

[Apples n' Stone]

If only my body worked in a similar way, registering exercise even when I am sitting down could be useful.

 

[Night Spring]

I would like to see Apple take more metrics into account like body ratio (body fat) and general condition. This way Apple might offer better deconditioned Algorithms while using more challenging goals for athletes.

Yes, exactly. In the meanwhile, comments in this thread has given me some good ideas about how to use the current Workout settings to better motivate myself. So thank you.

 

[flur]

In 1.0 the Watch was vastly overestimating exercise (it still is IMO) and has been (more) corrected in 1.01.

Algorithms for determining Workout thresholds (‘Brisk Walk’) are not dynamic or adjustable, nor should they be. They are set by scientific studies and not an individual’s preference or subjective opinion.

The Workout (‘Brisk Walk’) thresholds algorithms are set by your metrics. Here is an example of the way it might work.

Male, 25, 6’, 185 lbs might have a ‘brisk walk’ = 13:30 minute mile
Female, 65, 5’3”, 130 lbs might have a ‘brisk walk’ = 17:00 minute mile

Apple is moving into poorly understood and studied territory (deconditioned athletes/oxymoron-ish) but seems to be striking a good first effort balance. The general population has not been studied as well as the athletic community. The BIG problem is establishing baselines. This is extremely difficult or impossible and often dangerous to do with deconditioned individuals. Establishing baselines like VO2 Max and Maximal HR are extremely painful (poor lactic acid tolerance) for deconditioned individuals and because of possible heart (and other) conditions/problems a physician should to be present.

Apple appears to be putting a good effort in trying to gather enough metrics to make the Watch a good exercise indicator to the general population. For me (and any athlete) the ‘Brisk Walk’ Apple is using is a super low bar to be considered as exercise.

I would like to see Apple take more metrics into account like body ratio (body fat) and general condition. This way Apple might offer better deconditioned Algorithms while using more challenging goals for athletes.

The equalizer here is HR. A more conditioned person will have a lower HR when doing the same work as a less conditioned person. The rub, of course, is that unless you are using a workout mode, the watch isn't taking HR into account. So we wind up with some people getting credited for something super easy for them, and others not getting credited for something strenuous for them (unless they use a workout mode).

I would also like to see Apple give more options for metrics, and to allow the watch to use those metrics if they are available, but to do without them when they are not. I DO think the tech is moving in that direction, but it will take time for Apple (and others) to refine their algorithms and sensors so that the watches can give us a more complete (and more accurate) health picture.

 

[Night Spring]

The equalizer here is HR. A more conditioned person will have a lower HR when doing the same work as a less conditioned person. The rub, of course, is that unless you are using a workout mode, the watch isn't taking HR into account. So we wind up with some people getting credited for something super easy for them, and others not getting credited for something strenuous for them (unless they use a workout mode).

I would also like to see Apple give more options for metrics, and to allow the watch to use those metrics if they are available, but to do without them when they are not. I DO think the tech is moving in that direction, but it will take time for Apple (and others) to refine their algorithms and sensors so that the watches can give us a more complete (and more accurate) health picture.

Yes. And hopefully, the data being gathered from current users can help contribute to the development of better algorithms, sensors, etc.

I just tried house cleaning with the Indoor Walk workout on. I ran it for about 30 minutes as I picked up things, swept the floor, and washed some dishes, with some pauses in between. I got 25 active calories and 3 minute exercise. That kind of feels right to me for a light house cleaning session.

Plan to walk to the pet store to buy cat food later today. Will turn on Outdoor Walk and walk as fast as I can, and see how fast I can go. I think increasing my regular walking pace has become my own exercise goal, thanks to this thread.

 

[flur]

Plan to walk to the pet store to buy cat food later today. Will turn on Outdoor Walk and walk as fast as I can, and see how fast I can go. I think increasing my regular walking pace has become my own exercise goal, thanks to this thread.

If you haven't done it a few times already, bring your phone with you, so it can use the GPS to correctly calibrate the distance and infer your stride length. This will make the watch more accurate in your pace and the amount of ground you cover.