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Our Lady of the Underpass
- Thread starter leekohler
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leekohler said:
i think my fellow evangelicals, i am a left winger btw, should read the new testament
jesus had a powerful message but never did he want to play the role of a politician...he had higher aspirations
today's (right wing) evangelicals are putting their faith in politics, power, and big money and have basically abandoned the message
jefhatfield said:
Just like many Muslims did in the Middle East and look what's happening now. I just hope that people like you have the courage to stand up and speak out against them-loudly and soon. You guys need to organize and take your religion back. I don't want it to seem that I'm anti-religious. I'm not.
jayscheuerle said:
Is it any better to substitute MacRumors and the word TV? Bird watching and TV (especially their mating habits). It is not the TV that is bad it is the channel they watch, hours of MTV or World Wrestling would melt the avg genious down to an 89 IQ inside a year. But substitute the History Channel, Discovery Science, C-Span, Fox News (gottcha!) and things change a wee bit. Then again spend that time in the MR politics forum and really kill time.
You mean there was a time it wasn't flat?!?!
Link
don't think the underpass is the only place, just where we are hearing about it.
stubeeef said:Is it any better to substitute MacRumors and the word TV? Bird watching and TV (especially their mating habits). It is not the TV that is bad it is the channel they watch, hours of MTV or World Wrestling would melt the avg genious down to an 89 IQ inside a year. But substitute the History Channel, Discovery Science, C-Span, Fox News (gottcha!) and things change a wee bit. Then again spend that time in the MR politics forum and really kill time.
I know that with my soon to be ex, I watched way too much TV. In fact I was thinking about switching to DSL in order to just live off the airwaves instead of cable. Unfortunately DSL is not available in my new neighborhood I found out. So here comes cable. Part of it they make non-sense not to do the TV portion ($55 for cable modem, $57 for cable modem and basic cable). In the last couple weeks I have spent more time listening to my tunes and finding time to play on the computer.
Chip NoVaMac said:I know that with my soon to be ex, I watched way too much TV. In fact I was thinking about switching to DSL in order to just live off the airwaves instead of cable. Unfortunately DSL is not available in my new neighborhood I found out. So here comes cable. Part of it they make non-sense not to do the TV portion ($55 for cable modem, $57 for cable modem and basic cable). In the last couple weeks I have spent more time listening to my tunes and finding time to play on the computer.
What's wrong with regular broadcast TV? Sure, it's not great but it's free.
Plus, you'll watch it less.
Anyone have a jack hammer?
Lets cut that thing out and sell it on Ebay with a reserve of $1.2 Million.
If that works, I will stop using Butter and oil to attempt to burn in the image of Mary in my white bread. I am on slice # 450 with no success!!
Lets cut that thing out and sell it on Ebay with a reserve of $1.2 Million.
If that works, I will stop using Butter and oil to attempt to burn in the image of Mary in my white bread. I am on slice # 450 with no success!!
840quadra said:Anyone have a jack hammer?
Lets cut that thing out and sell it on Ebay with a reserve of $1.2 Million.
If that works, I will stop using Butter and oil to attempt to burn in the image of Mary in my white bread. I am on slice # 450 with no success!!
u need to make sure a vegas casino is interested
they alread have a holy grilled cheese so maybe that wy the toast wasnt a winner
leekohler said:What's wrong with regular broadcast TV? Sure, it's not great but it's free.
Plus, you'll watch it less.
Going further OT a bit.
I know, but the point was that the cable companies make it silly not to get the basic channels with the cable modem. Just $2 gets better reception and a few more channels. That is why I am disappointed that DSL is not available in my new place. Hate to say it, but I will never go back to dial-up.
840quadra said:Anyone have a jack hammer?
Lets cut that thing out and sell it on Ebay with a reserve of $1.2 Million.
If that works, I will stop using Butter and oil to attempt to burn in the image of Mary in my white bread. I am on slice # 450 with no success!!
Better yet, let's get an old dark cloth and press it over "Mary". It'll be like a second shroud of Turin.
leekohler said:
i have been fighting apostasy for years
the fundamentalists in the mold of president bush are just the latest in a long line of bad witnesses for christ
true christians, whether they like bush or not, will put their faith in god and not in any certain political party...it would be a mistake for my fellow democrats who are christians to form an organized, powerful, rich, corrupt "christian left"...it's ok for the minister/priest to urge people to vote, but not who for because that should be up to the individual voter
christianity or any major religion i can think of is not about politics...that's what political parties are for
Separating religion and government - what a great idea! The US goverment should look into this concept. Oh yeah, that's right... we did. Now, we've seemed to have forgotten about that.jefhatfield said:i have been fighting apostasy for years
the fundamentalists in the mold of president bush are just the latest in a long line of bad witnesses for christ
true christians, whether they like bush or not, will put their faith in god and not in any certain political party...it would be a mistake for my fellow democrats who are christians to form an organized, powerful, rich, corrupt "christian left"...it's ok for the minister/priest to urge people to vote, but not who for because that should be up to the individual voter
christianity or any major religion i can think of is not about politics...that's what political parties are for
jefhatfield, I wish all Christians were as rational as you are.
feakbeak said:
thank you
without being a rational witness to one's faith, it's hard to be a good witness
if a republican christian said they wanted to vote gop because they believed in helping small business and paying off the defecit and thus gave that as their reason for voting for bush, dole, bush jr., etc, then i would totally respect that
but to vote for w because they think he's america's protestant answer to the pope or archbishop would be foolish and many evangelicals voted for bush jr. for religious reasons and that to me defies all reason...and anyway, the pope is not a political figure so being a leader, in spirit, of a billion people is ok
the problem with w is that he can change his christian agenda to that of being an american dictator and invade countries that have not invaded or attacked us...which many in the world believe w has already done
i know there are christians who feel terrible about the war in iraq and i can see it pains them to still support the president when they hear of another rash of deaths of american soldiers who should not be there anyway...they signed up to protect america from their enemies, not be the president's private army for selfish purposes
the more this war goes on, the more the rest of the world will attach christianity to bush and his war and that is a scary thought...much the way that some have attributed islam to the terrorists of 9-11
it may take decades for people to see christianity in america in a good light again...i feel sorry for all those christians who originally laid a strong foundation with the constitution, the abolition of slavery, and organizations which are dedicated to ending disease and starvation
jefhatfield said:i have been fighting apostasy for years
the fundamentalists in the mold of president bush are just the latest in a long line of bad witnesses for christ
true christians, whether they like bush or not, will put their faith in god and not in any certain political party...it would be a mistake for my fellow democrats who are christians to form an organized, powerful, rich, corrupt "christian left"...it's ok for the minister/priest to urge people to vote, but not who for because that should be up to the individual voter
christianity or any major religion i can think of is not about politics...that's what political parties are for
You're right. I guess what I'm saying is not that you should become political, but that you should shout down those who've become so. Let them know how wrong they are. I'm not hearing that from you guys at the moment-no one is. Everyone who's not Christian assumes that all Christians are right wing wackos. Not too many people are hearing that that is not the case. That's what I mean, get your message out. Actually, you may have to become political to get that done. Don't be afraid to do so. If you don't, we may become Iran.
leekohler said:
actually the moral majority is rarely moral and never was or is the majority
if the christian right, and i am talking about the ones who worship right wing politics, get too outspoken, they will only hurt their cause and the results will be seen by the next midterm election
there is no major chance of us turning into an iran quickly
but a hundred years from now, who knows where we will be?
who in 1932 thought that there would be a prominent southern governor winning in 1976 beating a northerner, then again in 1992 and 1996 and all three times winning on the more liberal platform than their opponent? the times have a way of changing and nobody can accurately predict how things will go
the christian right is the boogey man the press likes to write about these days and their bark is much less than their bite
??
Is that the Macrumors Buzzz word for 2005? It is in almost every current thread.
840
Runs and hides from zealots
jefhatfield said:
I'd say their bite is pretty nasty at the moment. 18 states have banned gay marriage or any type of rights for gay couples at all with more states on the way. They have actually managed to legislate against people for being who they are. And who's behind it? The religious right. I'd say they're accomplishing their goals very easily right now. And you don't find this worrisome?.
leekohler said:
are the religious right the majority in america? no, what are they, something like 3 million people out of 270 million?
but is their power, whatever it is in washington, worrisome? yes, but i don't think they can continue to keep on legislating their minority point of view without a backlash from democrats and republicans alike
colojohnboy: maybe, send pic.
Ah, but you're assuming that 1% of a population couldn't force rule on the rest, which history has shown many times to be possible. Historically, when a group this small takes power, it's the rich rather than religious, but power is the only thing they need, and they already have plenty. When they convert their worldly power into political power, and there's enough apathy among the serfs, all sorts of weird **** can happen. They've gotten close before-- The whole opposition to McCarthyism can be summed up in the line, "Have you no sense of decency!" which is pretty weak compared to the actual religious-based xenophobic violence he was peddling. Fortunately that sick bastard died before he could organize an army. Today's hate preachers are grabbing up whole congregations rather than attracting people one-by-one, and they're figuring out how to use the electronic age to their advantage (last sunday's televised rally, for example). The unfortunate thing is, apparently to attack these people is to attack all Christians, so it has to be seriously tempered... People cheer at David Koresh's death, but if you say "Fred Phelps should be in prison", people balk-- Free speech, they say, religious freedom. We grant Christianity enormous unrestricted activity because we've grown up with it-- it could be the national religion! Why object when they try to make it the national religion? It's splitting hairs to object simply because it's a twisted subsect that has nothing to do with mainstream Christian values. That's why they're dangerous... that's why democrats can't stop them. Deep down, most democrats are preprogrammed to accept these things. That's why CNN didn't run with the apt opening that someone here wrote about the salt stain... instead talking about the "faithful and curious".
jefhatfield, this wasn't targeted to you, just a response to the whole thread
jefhatfield said:
Ah, but you're assuming that 1% of a population couldn't force rule on the rest, which history has shown many times to be possible. Historically, when a group this small takes power, it's the rich rather than religious, but power is the only thing they need, and they already have plenty. When they convert their worldly power into political power, and there's enough apathy among the serfs, all sorts of weird **** can happen. They've gotten close before-- The whole opposition to McCarthyism can be summed up in the line, "Have you no sense of decency!" which is pretty weak compared to the actual religious-based xenophobic violence he was peddling. Fortunately that sick bastard died before he could organize an army. Today's hate preachers are grabbing up whole congregations rather than attracting people one-by-one, and they're figuring out how to use the electronic age to their advantage (last sunday's televised rally, for example). The unfortunate thing is, apparently to attack these people is to attack all Christians, so it has to be seriously tempered... People cheer at David Koresh's death, but if you say "Fred Phelps should be in prison", people balk-- Free speech, they say, religious freedom. We grant Christianity enormous unrestricted activity because we've grown up with it-- it could be the national religion! Why object when they try to make it the national religion? It's splitting hairs to object simply because it's a twisted subsect that has nothing to do with mainstream Christian values. That's why they're dangerous... that's why democrats can't stop them. Deep down, most democrats are preprogrammed to accept these things. That's why CNN didn't run with the apt opening that someone here wrote about the salt stain... instead talking about the "faithful and curious".
jefhatfield, this wasn't targeted to you, just a response to the whole thread
rainman::|:| said:colojohnboy: maybe, send pic.
Ah, but you're assuming that 1% of a population couldn't force rule on the rest, which history has shown many times to be possible. Historically, when a group this small takes power, it's the rich rather than religious, but power is the only thing they need, and they already have plenty. When they convert their worldly power into political power, and there's enough apathy among the serfs, all sorts of weird **** can happen. They've gotten close before-- The whole opposition to McCarthyism can be summed up in the line, "Have you no sense of decency!" which is pretty weak compared to the actual religious-based xenophobic violence he was peddling. Fortunately that sick bastard died before he could organize an army. Today's hate preachers are grabbing up whole congregations rather than attracting people one-by-one, and they're figuring out how to use the electronic age to their advantage (last sunday's televised rally, for example). The unfortunate thing is, apparently to attack these people is to attack all Christians, so it has to be seriously tempered... People cheer at David Koresh's death, but if you say "Fred Phelps should be in prison", people balk-- Free speech, they say, religious freedom. We grant Christianity enormous unrestricted activity because we've grown up with it-- it could be the national religion! Why object when they try to make it the national religion? It's splitting hairs to object simply because it's a twisted subsect that has nothing to do with mainstream Christian values. That's why they're dangerous... that's why democrats can't stop them. Deep down, most democrats are preprogrammed to accept these things. That's why CNN didn't run with the apt opening that someone here wrote about the salt stain... instead talking about the "faithful and curious".
jefhatfield, this wasn't targeted to you, just a response to the whole thread
I agree with you completely! Why are gays and other people the religious right doesn't like demonized? Because we challenge them. We refuse to follow their rules and have no qualms saying so. So we are automatically "against God". That's why we need more religious people on the left to speak out.
jefhatfield said:
Jeff, the issue is one that other "religious" people can also find some comfort in. Even if they don't see eye-to-eye with the total agenda.
Add to that it is now a case of those with the money can control the political process. The Religious Right are being used as pawns by the RNC IMO, because the relatively small base can be mobilized in both physical and monetary ways. Look at some of the TV evangelists, and how their "faithful" would eat cat food in order to denounce Satan.
Just look at MS's lack of support on the recent domestic partner bill in Washington state. They have one of the most progressive Gay Rights policies in business at MS. They backed down because of a threat of a boycott by the radical Religious Right to boycott them, if they supported the Bill.
It is time that we as Americans demanded that lobbyists and such go away. No more dinners. No more trips around the country, or the world. No more multi-million dollar election campaigns. No single individual, non-profit, or company (no subsidiary would count as a separate company) would be able to contribute more than $100 to any candidate in the local jurisdiction and/or state that they reside in or have "business" interest in if I had my way.
Maybe then we would see people running for office that truly have the peoples interests at heart. I would further limit speaking fees to $50 an hour. Travel expenses would be limited to the lowest coach fares at the time of booking. The standard government per diem rate would apply for what ever city they were speaking in. This goes for those in and out of office. If they wish to receive higher speakers fees and reimbursement for travel, then they will no longer receive any government pensions or benefits.
We need to end the gravy train that allows individuals to enter in to political service for the good of the people, ending up as being good for their wallets.
Maybe if we eliminate the money, we don't need term limits.
Chip NoVaMac said:
there is no doubt that the religious right, and even religious moderates w/o a political affiliation are being used by the republicans
but i wouldn't say that the tele-evangleists' faithful would eat cat food in order to denounce satan...but in the days before 1) jim bakker scandal 2) jimmy swaggert scandal 3) jerry falwell stepping down from the moral majority leadership due to untoward financial innuendos towards ptl network, christians were completely trusting of tele-evangelists and their pet projects/ventures
...but we live in a post-scandal era of television christianity and people have not forgotten how corrupt these religious television icons can be when power and money come into play