Outrageous Apple prices

[26139]

wow....

Here is comparison of 2 laptops- HP dv6700z and Macbook

Macbook 2.1 GHz - $1099; 2.4 GHz $1299

Hp dv6700z with standard AMD Athlon 1.9 GHz is
+$50 for 2.1 or +$75 for 2.2 or+150 for 2.4 to the standard price.

apple memory standard is 1 GB. +$100 to upgrade to 2GB. or +$500 for 4GB.

HP comes with 1GB. there is free upgrade to 2 GB. 4GB +$150

to upgrade dv6700z to 256 MB video card you will have to pay $99 extra.
Macbook doesn't offer this option.

wireless and bluetooth for dv6700z will cost you +$45. It is included in Macbook price.

dv6700z has dvd burner. Macbook doesn't unless you will pay for more expesive 2.4 model.
for +$15 you can get lightscribe with dv6700z.

hard drive update for macbook is +$50 for 160Gb or $150 to 250GB vs +$25 for 160GB and +$75 for 250GB. Hell you can upgrade dv6700z to 320GB for $150!

+$19 will cost you System recovery dvd for dv6700z.

So summarize this- 2.1 macbook 4GB,250 GB sold for $1749 vs 2.1 HP 256Mb video card, Microphone, webcam, wireless LAN, bluetooth, 320GB hard drive, Lightscribe, OS recovery DVD, dv6700z for $1133.99. So savings of $615!!!
So basically you end up paying for OS X $615!!!

To be fare to replace AMD processor with Intel and it will be $ 1272.99. So still $476 savings!

Dude, we get it. Apple is more expensive than HP, Compaq, Dell and nearly every other computer manufacturer. If you're the type of person who looks solely at price tag and not at value for your dollar, you're obviously not an Apple customer. This is an OLD argument that doesn't need to be repeated time and time again.

 

[macffooky]

The first letter is probably s and the last e.

That's what I thought but I didn't know that variant was used in the US of A.

 

[BongoBanger]

This topic makes my eyes bleed for a few reasons but mainly because it's so full of clichéd arguments.

 

[iMpathetic]

This topic makes my eyes bleed for a few reasons but mainly because it's so full of clichéd arguments.

Ugh, yes. At least it seems that we've beaten the troll to death with his own club.

 

[DoFoT9]

Dude, we get it. Apple is more expensive than HP, Compaq, Dell and nearly every other computer manufacturer. If you're the type of person who looks solely at price tag and not at value for your dollar, you're obviously not an Apple customer. This is an OLD argument that doesn't need to be repeated time and time again.

man i think the OP is gone lol...

yes, apple is much more expensive, and YES YES YES i (and many other mac ursers) would definately pay the increased prices to get a quality computer.

apple ftw

 

[tom.]

Smaller form factor.

12" Sony laptops with half the specs of their 15.4" friends, cost twice as much. Everybody knows you pay more for a smaller machine, with a similar spec, and to a lot of people that is worth the difference.

There is a big difference between carrying a 15.4" HP machine around as opposed to the Apple 13" equivalent. Also, nobody wants an AMD CPU in their laptop right now.

 

[mosx]

Smaller form factor.

12" Sony laptops with half the specs of their 15.4" friends, cost twice as much. Everybody knows you pay more for a smaller machine, with a similar spec, and to a lot of people that is worth the difference.

There is a big difference between carrying a 15.4" HP machine around as opposed to the Apple 13" equivalent. Also, nobody wants an AMD CPU in their laptop right now.

Those Sonys are ultraportable subnotebooks. They use smaller components, ULV CPUs and other things. The MacBook (and Pro) uses the same motherboard and components that other notebooks do. The MacBooks are "thinner" yes, but thanks to their improper cooling systems they C O O K.

Also, the MacBook weighs 5 pounds. My 15.4" HP weighs 6. The HP is only "larger" a CM or so in each direction.

AMD's processors are just fine too. My friend bought herself an HP with a Turion64 X2 at 2.1GHz, 3GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, GeForce 8400M GS, memory card reader, ExpressCard slot, HDMI output, etc. for $900. I've run all kinds of benchmarking, real world application tests (like video encoding in Handbrake and Nero) and it always comes out tied with my HP (C2D 2GHz, SR), and MacBook (C2D 2.16GHz)

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

Spec a Dell XPS against the base Macbook, no additions..After you get the processor as close as possible (2.0Ghz compared to 2.1Ghz for the Macbook), and Vista Ultimate (since that would be the fairest comparison to Mac OS X), already the XPS is $50 more than the Macbook..Make the Wireless card N, plus add the Bluetooth the Macbook has, and up the battery (because let's face it, Dell laptops have ****** battery life...My Dell Inspiron had half the battery life my Macbook has after almost 200 Battery Cycles when I bought it)..Where are you at? $1,383 compared to the Macbook at $1,099. Given, the XPS has 2GB of RAM standard, and a bigger hard drive, but I upped my RAM in my Macbook to 4GB for $60, making the total Macbook price $1,159. What is your point? Take into consideration XPSes are a lot heavier (My friend Nick's XPS cost $3000 and weighs 18 pounds x_x yuck!). So what is your point? Both have 13.3 inch screens and yes, the XPS, a gaming laptop, comes with the same X3100 graphics card as the Macbook.

Next comparison:

The Inspiron 1520..to start out, I subtracted $25 for the colour, to make it less unfair to the Dell.

Same deal with the processor...no 2.1Ghz, so upped it to 2.0Ghz. - $924

To make it fair, I should make it XP professional, but I won't put the Dell off, we'll leave it at XP Home..No Vista option.

Everything else matches up well...$924.. $1074 with the XP Professional. for $175 less, you get an inspiron..If you don't like Mac OS X, you prefer Windows, don't like the looks of Macs and like Inspirons, and all that jive, get the Dell - it's obviously a better value for you. For the rest of us, that $175 is worth it. And believe me, my Inspiron that cost like $700 is so worthless to me compared to my $1099 Macbook. Just for reference, that's the best Inspiron deal..most of them are above the $1099 for equal specs.

So, again, OP, what's your point?

 

[mosx]

Spec a Dell XPS against the base Macbook, no additions..After you get the processor as close as possible (2.0Ghz compared to 2.1Ghz for the Macbook), and Vista Ultimate (since that would be the fairest comparison to Mac OS X), already the XPS is $50 more than the Macbook..Make the Wireless card N, plus add the Bluetooth the Macbook has, and up the battery (because let's face it, Dell laptops have ****** battery life...My Dell Inspiron had half the battery life my Macbook has after almost 200 Battery Cycles when I bought it)..Where are you at? $1,383 compared to the Macbook at $1,099. Given, the XPS has 2GB of RAM standard, and a bigger hard drive, but I upped my RAM in my Macbook to 4GB for $60, making the total Macbook price $1,159.

The baseline XPS M1330 comes with a DVD writer.

Picking Vista Ultimate would actually be unfair to OS X because Vista Ultimate has features that OS X does not, like FULL disk encryption

Vista Home Premium and OS X are equal in terms of features and functionality.

Bluetooth is useless. I've had it in notebook PCs for years now and you know how many times I have actually used it? 0.

802.11n is also useless. It's still not a final draft standard and most routers that people buy are only 802.11g (not everyone is going to buy a $100 Airport Express or $180 Airport Extreme when a $40 router from Wal-Mart will cover their entire house reliably). Most peoples internet connections are still 5Mbps or below. Transferring files back and forth is still MUCH faster over a wired network.

And why do people always have to compare to the M1330? That argument that the Apple fans try to use is GREATLY flawed. Very few people actually buy the MacBook because of its size.

The vast majority of MacBook owners buy the MacBook because its the only Mac they can afford! They don't walk into the Apple store and think "hmm I think I'll get this one because I like the small size and the screen!" No, they go straight for the MacBook because not everyone can buy a $2,000 computer! If Apple had a $999 MacBook that was 15.4" with a dedicated GPU and DVD writer, it would literally fly off the shelves and the 13.3" sales would practically come to a halt.

Therefore it is perfectly valid to compare the MacBook to a 15.4" HP or Dell. Because, again, people are NOT buying the MacBook based on its size. They are only buying it because it is the only Apple notebook they can afford.

Over at HP, a 12.1" system (widescreen) with a Core 2 Duo 2.1GHz (Penryn), 3GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, GeForce 8400M GS, Fingerprint reader, DVD writer, and 4 hours of real world battery life will cost you $1,043.99. A 15.4" system with a 2.4GHz Penryn based C2D, 2GB of RAM, GeForce 8400M GS, fingerprint reader, 3.5 hours of real world battery life, 120GB HDD, etc. will come in at $1,002.99. Toss in a blu-ray drive and it comes out to be roughly $32 cheaper than the middle white MacBook. Both of those systems have HDCP certified HDMI outputs, so either one could act as a blu-ray player connected to an HDTV.

Take into consideration XPSes are a lot heavier (My friend Nick's XPS cost $3000 and weighs 18 pounds x_x yuck!). So what is your point? Both have 13.3 inch screens and yes, the XPS, a gaming laptop, comes with the same X3100 graphics card as the Macbook.

Again, the size means nothing. People only buy the MacBook because it is the only system they can afford.

Also, the XPS M1330 weighs less than 4 pounds. More than a pound less than the MacBook. The MacBook is actually the heaviest 13.3" notebook out there.

The Inspiron 1520..to start out, I subtracted $25 for the colour, to make it less unfair to the Dell.

Same deal with the processor...no 2.1Ghz, so upped it to 2.0Ghz. - $924

To make it fair, I should make it XP professional, but I won't put the Dell off, we'll leave it at XP Home..No Vista option.

I'm looking at Dell.com right now. A 1520 with a 2.4GHz C2D, XP Home, DVD writer, 1680x1050 screen, 1GB of RAM, costs $974. You can cut $100 off the price by dropping the high resolution screen.

A Dell Vostro (business notebook) with a 2.1GHz C2D, Vista Home Premium, 1440x900 screen, 1GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, 256MB GeForce 8600M GT, DVD writer comes out to $1,082.

And, again, you head over to HP and you can get 2.4GHz C2D, 15.4" screen, 120GB HDD, DVD writer, GeForce 8400M GS, fingerprint reader, high capacity battery (that does not stick out of the bottom or back) for about $1,000.

Once again, people are NOT buying the MacBooks because of their size and such. They are only buying them because it is the only Mac they can afford.

When it comes down to that, people CAN compare based on hardware that you get for the money. In all situations, Apple fails miserably.

If you don't like Mac OS X, you prefer Windows, don't like the looks of Macs and like Inspirons, and all that jive, get the Dell - it's obviously a better value for you. For the rest of us, that $175 is worth it. And believe me, my Inspiron that cost like $700 is so worthless to me compared to my $1099 Macbook. Just for reference, that's the best Inspiron deal..most of them are above the $1099 for equal specs.

Actually, as I just showed, you get a lot less for more money with a Mac. You also failed to mention that ALL of the systems compared here come WITH a DVD WRITER and not just a combo drive like that $1,100 MacBook.

For an equivalent PC, you will spend as much as $400 less.

Theres also other ways to look at it. My MacBook was $1406 after taxes. 2.16GHz, 120GB HDD, 1GB of memory, DVD writer, Intel GMA950. My HP was less than $1,000. 2GHz C2D (Santa Rosa), 160GB HDD, 2GB of RAM, GeForce 8400M GS with HDCP certified HDMI output, fingerprint reader, Expresscard slot, memory card reader, S-Video, VGA outputs, dialup modem.

So yes, Macs are considerably more expensive for LESS features. The $1299 MacBook should, without a doubt, have a 256MB dedicated GPU. No longer should it be a GeForce 8400M GS. It should either be the GT or an 8600M GS.

The MacBook Pros are at least $700 to $1,000 more than they should be.

 

[DoFoT9]

The baseline XPS M1330 comes with a DVD writer.



1. Vista Home Premium and OS X are equal in terms of features and functionality.

2. Bluetooth is useless. I've had it in notebook PCs for years now and you know how many times I have actually used it? 0.

3. 802.11n is also useless. It's still not a final draft standard and most routers that people buy are only 802.11g (not everyone is going to buy a $100 Airport Express or $180 Airport Extreme when a $40 router from Wal-Mart will cover their entire house reliably). Most peoples internet connections are still 5Mbps or below. Transferring files back and forth is still MUCH faster over a wired network.



........

1. hhmmm kinda, but kinda not. in terms of the OS, yes they may be equal. in terms of everything else. nuuhhh

2. bluetooth is NOT useless. KBs, mouses, remote controling from mobile fones for presentations, using the internet away from home. the lists goes on and i use them for all.

3. duh 802.11n is not useless. it is a great improvement over stupid 802.11g, which maxes out at 2mbps at my house. for those of us who cannot cable up our house and have a 2 storey house n comes in very handy.

maybe for you BT and 'n' is crap, but for many others it is a great milestone

p.s. if your baggin apple so much, why buy one??

 

[johnsy]

Had so much fun reading all this! You guys proved my friend's point! Thanks!

I was arguing with my friend (lets call him John) about computers. I have Mac, he has PC. I like OS X, because I can do more than just worry about security and constantly update (and pay for updates unless I get free versions) antivirus and firewall and all other junk. My friend however likes Vista. To him it is the best windows. He said that Mac owners tend to persuade other people to switch to a Mac. All this thing is like religion (or some religions)- either you switch or you damned. John said that no matter what Mac zealots say <90% of things are created using PC (windows) and there is no point to pay extra for overpriced (mediocre) hardware. Either way a lot of Mac users treat windows users with disrespect as windblows idiots. It is trivial thing- no matter what you do as long as you know how to make use of one or another tool you will reach the same result.

I am glad that not all people here will buy anything from Apple or any other manufacturer without considering pros and cons.


PEACE!

 

[demented]

Over at HP, a 12.1" system (widescreen) with a Core 2 Duo 2.1GHz (Penryn), 3GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, GeForce 8400M GS, Fingerprint reader, DVD writer, and 4 hours of real world battery life will cost you $1,043.99.

Can you please show me wher I can buy this HP. The only 12.1" Hp that I can find has an AMD processor. Thanks

 

[Sky Blue]

Had so much fun reading all this! You guys proved my friend's point! Thanks!

I was arguing with my friend (lets call him John) about computers. I have Mac, he has PC. I like OS X, because I can do more than just worry about security and constantly update (and pay for updates unless I get free versions) antivirus and firewall and all other junk. My friend however likes Vista. To him it is the best windows. He said that Mac owners tend to persuade other people to switch to a Mac. All this thing is like religion (or some religions)- either you switch or you damned. John said that no matter what Mac zealots say <90% of things are created using PC (windows) and there is no point to pay extra for overpriced (mediocre) hardware. Either way a lot of Mac users treat windows users with disrespect as windblows idiots. It is trivial thing- no matter what you do as long as you know how to make use of one or another tool you will reach the same result.

I am glad that not all people here will buy anything from Apple or any other manufacturer without considering pros and cons.


PEACE!

So you realized you were speaking nonsense, and you've decided to change your story? nice!

 

[nick9191]

John said that no matter what Mac zealots say <90% of things are created using PC (windows)

Unless your in the media industry, the music industry, or the education industry, where Apple is the largest by far.

and there is no point to pay extra for overpriced (mediocre) hardware.

You seen the Mac Pro? Damn fast and dam cheap for what it is, can't be built cheaper in fact. Put that in your friends pipe and make him smoke it

 

[SFStateStudent]

Don't even go there! It's been done! You can't compare "Apples" to "Oranges (PC)" without some form of bias either way. You can do everything you can to try to be fair and impartial, but the bottom line is you'll get real "dizzy" and your head will hurt!

 

[Cave Man]

So you realized you were speaking nonsense, and you've decided to change your story? nice!

That pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 

[SFStateStudent]

The OP is rowing with ONE OAR? What am I, a Guinea Pig?

 

[mosx]

1. hhmmm kinda, but kinda not. in terms of the OS, yes they may be equal. in terms of everything else. nuuhhh

Well, Vista Home Premium and OS X are equal because they both have different features that balance them out. OS X ships with iLife and is a great OS to use.

Vista Home Premium has things like DirectX Video Acceleration which uses dedicated GPUs full hardware capabilities to render video and it makes all well encoded videos look absolutely gorgeous.

2. bluetooth is NOT useless. KBs, mouses, remote controling from mobile fones for presentations, using the internet away from home. the lists goes on and i use them for all.

I see bluetooth mice and keyboards losing connections all the time. Having to be reset so they reconnect and can be used.

Mobile phone for presentation? Only if both the phone and software support it. The Apple remote (and most remotes that ship with notebook PCs) supports that.

Not all mobile phones support tethering via bluetooth either, so they can't be used for mobile internet. Besides, most cellular providers offer wireless internet solutions.

3. duh 802.11n is not useless. it is a great improvement over stupid 802.11g, which maxes out at 2mbps at my house. for those of us who cannot cable up our house and have a 2 storey house n comes in very handy

Well, again, the standard isn't finalized. Things could change that render current equipment incompatible. If 802.11g is so slow in your house, then you should check for things interfering with the connection. I have a reasonably large yard and my 802.11g router, $36 on sale a couple of years ago, covers my entire yard. I can sit way out in the back with my iPhone or MacBook browsing over wifi without a problem.

p.s. if your baggin apple so much, why buy one??

Just showing all sides of the story

 

[Natsu]

I think that people who buy computers from apple are willing to pay for the extra cash cuz of the uniqueness and the creativity of apple.
I like what Dsnort said, Lesson 2. "When you do something different, you get to charge extra." and I think its true. I mean HP and the other laptop brands that are based on the window platform are 'the same' but apple is just something different. You can't really compare the specs of a macbook and an HP.
I'm a PC user and I'm thinking of getting a macbook rather than a cheaper vista notebook cuz I like the stuff that apple has created

 

[johnsy]

So you realized you were speaking nonsense, and you've decided to change your story? nice!

I was not speaking nonsense. I personally believe that Apple does charge more for nothing (and to clear up here I define nothing as the same regular hardware- memory, hard drives) . BUT, it seems they are improving. For example new iMac. There are more upgrade options, you don't have to get new model if you want just processor or video card or hard drive upgraded. However price points didn't went down. In another words you can get any (new) iMac you want as long as you will pay at least $1199.

As for mediocre hardware- there are no forums for HP laptops that have display problems, problems with improperly made cases and so on. Might be few hundred less makes people less mad or what, might be (as some people here did comment) if you have saturn you care less than if you would do owning mercedes (and if you paid for one). In any case good company will do conclusions. They will improve. Bad company doesn't care. Gateway for example almost went out of business because they didn't cared.

Also it is not easy to be number one, it is way easier to be number two. Compare Toyota now and few years ago- now they are getting more comments of worse quality than years ago, just because they are number one (OK, GM is theoretically still number one, but not in practice).

I had a lot of problems with wireless Apple mighty mouse. Now everything seems improved. I think because of Leopard upgrades compared just to fresh Leopard.

Mac Pro are not that cheap! $2799 without keyboard, mouse and monitor is not THAT cheap. As far as upgradability- probably the best computer- limitless upgrades. There is one problem- seems you have to make decision WHEN you buy it. There are some upgrades not available on apple store AFTER you purchase it. Memory, hd are no problem, you will have to buy it from 3'd party anyway. Actually Mac pro is probably the last computer as we know it- before you will max out possibilities and upgrade options we probably will have some other kind processors, because silicon chips are already reached the capacity...

 

[jonswan]

If you don't like the price of Macs, don't buy one. HP stands for How Pathetic, and I should know as I owned a laptop and a printer and both were garbage. Move along.

 

[mosx]

Can you please show me wher I can buy this HP. The only 12.1" Hp that I can find has an AMD processor. Thanks

Sorry, meant 14.1. But its not like AMD's processors are bad. A 2.1GHz Turion64 X2 will easily keep up with a 2GHz Core 2 Duo.

That 12.1" HP is also a tablet PC. For $950 you get a 2GHz Turion64 X2, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, 12.1" tablet PC, GeForce Go 6150 (integrated but still better than any Intel GPU!), a DVD writer, fingerprint reader, camera, and 8 cell battery. $50 less gets you all that just with a 6 cell battery.

 

[mosx]

If you don't like the price of Macs, don't buy one. HP stands for How Pathetic, and I should know as I owned a laptop and a printer and both were garbage. Move along.

My current HP notebook is anything but garbage Has Vista. Its just as stable as my Mac. Has HDMI output with a dedicated GPU so I can play blu-ray discs on my HDTV. Fingerprint reader, TV tuner, memory card reader, etc.

I also have an HP All-in-One thats 3 years old now. Despite printing hundreds of pages, I still have 30% left in the black cartridge and 70% color! My HP Photosmart 475 photo printer is still on its first cartridge and it performs flawlessly.

 

[DoFoT9]

1.Well, Vista Home Premium and OS X are equal because they both have different features that balance them out. OS X ships with iLife and is a great OS to use.

1.Vista Home Premium has things like DirectX Video Acceleration which uses dedicated GPUs full hardware capabilities to render video and it makes all well encoded videos look absolutely gorgeous.

2.I see bluetooth mice and keyboards losing connections all the time. Having to be reset so they reconnect and can be used.

3.Mobile phone for presentation? Only if both the phone and software support it. The Apple remote (and most remotes that ship with notebook PCs) supports that.

3.Not all mobile phones support tethering via bluetooth either, so they can't be used for mobile internet. Besides, most cellular providers offer wireless internet solutions.

4.Well, again, the standard isn't finalized. Things could change that render current equipment incompatible. If 802.11g is so slow in your house, then you should check for things interfering with the connection. I have a reasonably large yard and my 802.11g router, $36 on sale a couple of years ago, covers my entire yard. I can sit way out in the back with my iPhone or MacBook browsing over wifi without a problem.

5.Just showing all sides of the story

1. ok yea osx and vista have their software, however osx is more "people" orientated. in terms of u kno music, video blaablaa. i jsut find vista to be more, uummm.. i dont know how to put it, but u get what i mean.

directx video acceleration, never heard of it. have to look into it.

2. the only time ive had bad BT reception was when the batteries died, so i replaced them and its working all sweet as again. no problems AT ALL.

3. yea mobile phone support, all compatable BT sony erricson has support to use this "media presentation" mode (in my country anyway). apple remote would be easy for preview presentations, but with the phone you can control the mouse, have arrow keys and many more.

4. i have two stations set up over WDS, this doesnt help my speeds i know. but seriously. 802.11g maxes out in the crapper. its fine for net usage up to ADSL2+, but not for transferring data, which is what i do alot of (transferring downloads, movies, rips from here to there etc)
i have time machine, it goes plenty far.
however i will be getting gigabit cables put in the house soon so thats not an issue for much longer.

5. yea ok you showed a bit of the oppositions story, im still not convinced

If you don't like the price of Macs, don't buy one. HP stands for How Pathetic, and I should know as I owned a laptop and a printer and both were garbage. Move along.

yea HP computers are ******, however their printers and some other hardware are quite awsome and cool (ugly but)

My current HP notebook is anything but garbage Has Vista. Its just as stable as my Mac. Has HDMI output with a dedicated GPU so I can play blu-ray discs on my HDTV. Fingerprint reader, TV tuner, memory card reader, etc.

I also have an HP All-in-One thats 3 years old now. Despite printing hundreds of pages, I still have 30% left in the black cartridge and 70% color! My HP Photosmart 475 photo printer is still on its first cartridge and it performs flawlessly.

still on the first cartridge?? get outa here lol. yea i have a photosmart 2600 or something, its a pretty awsome machine for being about 2 years old. have probably replaced the cartridges about 20 times however lol

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

The baseline XPS M1330 comes with a DVD writer.

Picking Vista Ultimate would actually be unfair to OS X because Vista Ultimate has features that OS X does not, like FULL disk encryption

Vista Home Premium and OS X are equal in terms of features and functionality.

Bluetooth is useless. I've had it in notebook PCs for years now and you know how many times I have actually used it? 0.

802.11n is also useless. It's still not a final draft standard and most routers that people buy are only 802.11g (not everyone is going to buy a $100 Airport Express or $180 Airport Extreme when a $40 router from Wal-Mart will cover their entire house reliably). Most peoples internet connections are still 5Mbps or below. Transferring files back and forth is still MUCH faster over a wired network.

And why do people always have to compare to the M1330? That argument that the Apple fans try to use is GREATLY flawed. Very few people actually buy the MacBook because of its size.

The vast majority of MacBook owners buy the MacBook because its the only Mac they can afford! They don't walk into the Apple store and think "hmm I think I'll get this one because I like the small size and the screen!" No, they go straight for the MacBook because not everyone can buy a $2,000 computer! If Apple had a $999 MacBook that was 15.4" with a dedicated GPU and DVD writer, it would literally fly off the shelves and the 13.3" sales would practically come to a halt.

Therefore it is perfectly valid to compare the MacBook to a 15.4" HP or Dell. Because, again, people are NOT buying the MacBook based on its size. They are only buying it because it is the only Apple notebook they can afford.

Over at HP, a 12.1" system (widescreen) with a Core 2 Duo 2.1GHz (Penryn), 3GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, GeForce 8400M GS, Fingerprint reader, DVD writer, and 4 hours of real world battery life will cost you $1,043.99. A 15.4" system with a 2.4GHz Penryn based C2D, 2GB of RAM, GeForce 8400M GS, fingerprint reader, 3.5 hours of real world battery life, 120GB HDD, etc. will come in at $1,002.99. Toss in a blu-ray drive and it comes out to be roughly $32 cheaper than the middle white MacBook. Both of those systems have HDCP certified HDMI outputs, so either one could act as a blu-ray player connected to an HDTV.



Again, the size means nothing. People only buy the MacBook because it is the only system they can afford.

Also, the XPS M1330 weighs less than 4 pounds. More than a pound less than the MacBook. The MacBook is actually the heaviest 13.3" notebook out there.



I'm looking at Dell.com right now. A 1520 with a 2.4GHz C2D, XP Home, DVD writer, 1680x1050 screen, 1GB of RAM, costs $974. You can cut $100 off the price by dropping the high resolution screen.

A Dell Vostro (business notebook) with a 2.1GHz C2D, Vista Home Premium, 1440x900 screen, 1GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, 256MB GeForce 8600M GT, DVD writer comes out to $1,082.

And, again, you head over to HP and you can get 2.4GHz C2D, 15.4" screen, 120GB HDD, DVD writer, GeForce 8400M GS, fingerprint reader, high capacity battery (that does not stick out of the bottom or back) for about $1,000.

Once again, people are NOT buying the MacBooks because of their size and such. They are only buying them because it is the only Mac they can afford.

When it comes down to that, people CAN compare based on hardware that you get for the money. In all situations, Apple fails miserably.



Actually, as I just showed, you get a lot less for more money with a Mac. You also failed to mention that ALL of the systems compared here come WITH a DVD WRITER and not just a combo drive like that $1,100 MacBook.

For an equivalent PC, you will spend as much as $400 less.

Theres also other ways to look at it. My MacBook was $1406 after taxes. 2.16GHz, 120GB HDD, 1GB of memory, DVD writer, Intel GMA950. My HP was less than $1,000. 2GHz C2D (Santa Rosa), 160GB HDD, 2GB of RAM, GeForce 8400M GS with HDCP certified HDMI output, fingerprint reader, Expresscard slot, memory card reader, S-Video, VGA outputs, dialup modem.

So yes, Macs are considerably more expensive for LESS features. The $1299 MacBook should, without a doubt, have a 256MB dedicated GPU. No longer should it be a GeForce 8400M GS. It should either be the GT or an 8600M GS.

The MacBook Pros are at least $700 to $1,000 more than they should be.

Touché, good sir. I didn't add in that part, but that is a good point. Thanks.

I chose Vista ultimate because it is the version that contains EVERYTHING the Vista Operating system contains, and Leopard contains everything Mac OS X contains, so I felt it was the fairest comparison in terms of the two.

Adding things such as Bluetooth were not in terms of how they affect every user...they were to make the machines as close to the same as possible; obviously I missed some things, and the machines are not going to be 100% identical, but I tried my best.

Same with the 802.11n

For your information, I bought it for all of those things..I could've afforded more..I thought about going for the Macbook Pro, but it was the fact that I'm getting one for College next year that made me go for the Macbook..I also went for the 2.0 where I almost went for the 2.2Ghz, but decided it wasn't going to make that much of a difference. The Macbook and Macbook Pro are both about the same weight-wise, and I don't like 15+ inch computers all that much, so yes, I was concerned about the size..if the Macbook pro was a 13" computer and still as powerful/featured, I'd get that size.

So, yes, it would be fair to compare it to a 15.4" Dell, but I wasn't in this particular case, for argument's sake.

I couldn't find anything on Dell's website about various XPS weights, I'm only going by the weight of my Inspiron and my friend's XPS, which are both well over 5 pounds. You are right about the XPS you mentioned, but I know for a fact other XPSes are not that light, and Inspirons don't dip below 6.4lbs., I believe.

Anyways, I'm not arguing that there's no reason to buy a Dell or HP or whatever computer. I wouldn't ever buy a Dell again because I think their computers are ******, and have never had a good experience with one. HP, I've heard bad things about...if I buy a WinPC, it'll be a Toshiba, most likely, as I've had good experiences with Toshiba, and their laptops appeal to me more than others. I like my Macbook, and I don't regret buying it at all, even if I could've gotten a Dell for $400 less that was equal. Fancy rhetoric aside, though, I don't think the sheep can moo.