Outrageous Apple prices

[EdLee]

As for mediocre hardware- there are no forums for HP laptops that have display problems, problems with improperly made cases and so on.

http://www.zd7000forums.com

I went there for quite a while with my ZD8000 laptop. You'd be surprised how many threads are on that site, specifically regarding screen problems, case cracking, power supply issues, battery issues, etc.

All I'm saying is that yes, *all* manufacturers have the same problems as Apple does in regards to manufacturing a laptop.

As for Apple being more expensive than most other PC laptop brands, I tend to agree, despite many of the comparisons made here. Apple has always been considered a *premium* brand by Steve Jobs and Co., and there has always been a *premium* price in regards to Apple products. This is how it is, and how it will be.

I remember a time when Sculley, Gasse, Spindler and Amielio tried like hell to get Apple to compete in the marketplace at the same level as Microsoft and PC Manufacturers. They sank down to the PC level to compete and almost destroyed the Apple brand for it.

The problem nowadays is that Apple is no longer using proprietary systems in their architecture of the desktop and laptop. This is what happened with IBM when they built the first PC...commodity, off the shelf hardware with a proprietary part (namely the BIOS). Since everyone and their brother is using Intel processors and Intel chipsets (And Broadcom. And Realtek), we now have a comparison base as to what parts *should* cost, compared to PPC or 680X0 architectures.

But the sum of the parts does not always equal the total value we receive. I would argue with Dell, HP, Alienware, Acer, etc, we get what we pay for. For the most part, we do get plain jane systems that really could have come from anyone. Slap a Dell logo on an HP system, and there you go. Toshiba and Acer, no problem, just swap logos and away you go into the world.

With Apple, it just seems, well, different. I bought my MacBook a few weeks back, and I love using it. It's not that I couldn't afford a MacBook Pro, or the latest and greatest Dell XPS laptops offered. I can and I could. But a) I wanted portability (within reason) and b) I didn't need a game machine (I've got plenty). What I needed was a system that I wasn't fiddling around with all the time and just something I could use. I did consider LINUX, but for the most part, it's just another system that would need fiddling around with, and since I do that pretty much all day, I didn't want to do that at home.

Which is why I went Mac. It's not the sum of it's parts, but the whole package for my needs in portable computing. Great interface, decent hardware, fantastic support (the Genius Bar and Apple Care deserve a lot of credit for how they support the end user...yes, I've dealt with all the majors regarding support)...it's a great package. And that's ultimately what CE users want.

Yes, I said CE.

Apple really doesn't sell computers anymore. They sell contained ecosystems or general purpose appliances that, for the most part, just work.

How many computer companies can you say that about?

Ed

 

[Cyburnclassic]

The prices of adding more RAM have dropped recently for the Macbooks, iMacs recently for the 4GB in the UK Store
Previously it was £300 to get 4GB RAM, now its £180 if upgrading from 1GB RAM
Its still very expensive, compared to DELL UK which costs £100 for 4GB of RAM (from 1GB RAM)

 

[luffytubby]

Well in a way I really don't get the Macbook.

If you look at it, it seems like the MB is the only apple laptop that is not impressive by any standards.

The Macbook Pro is a very capable and strong machine. The high end 17' model is one of the best laptops you can buy, it is thin, stylish and cool. It got it all.

The Macbook Air, is ultra portable, yet manages to have a full sized keyboard and a 13' screen. It's incredible light and slim making it comfortable to walk around with for a long time. You can forgive its technical limitations when you take its form factor into consideration. It's absolutely amazing. To think that they could make a computer that slim.


But the Macbook... it's 13' but its really heavy. Next to a 15' MBP it looks like its about the same size. it does not have any cool features like backlit keyboard, or something like that. It even has the same integrated card that the Air has, which is sad giving the difference between the two in form factor. The MB is beautiful, but its so heavy for its size and not very portable at all.
I would have pay so much more, for a better MB.
Or said in another way... a very high end portable 10'-13' computer.

 

[Matek]

Well, luffytubby, you have to be covering as much of the market as possible, it's nothing but pure economic logic. Not everyone is able or willing to buy the best there is - why waste your money if you don't actually need the functionality?

If i take your reasoning a bit further, we could abandon all system configurations that aren't maxed out as well. According to you, there is no point in having a computer with average performance if it's nothing special and the monster machine is available as well.

 

[JoeG4]

PROTIP: Try the Dell XPS M1330.

PROTIP?! OMG NO!

I just saw this the other day.. where was it..

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/c-t-tech-talk/embarrassing-computer-mistakes/t.40015001_16/

XD

 

[ayeying]

Stop complaining about the specs. Do you complain about specs when you buy a car? No, people just buy what they like. Its obvious many here on this forum like the OSX OS and the Apple style products. You pay a premium for a luxury item. Just for example, I drive an Acura RSX. I paid about $4000 bucks more then the Honda Civic EX, which apparently, is virtually the same as the RSX except the brand and outer body design (we even use the same radio and such). I don't whine and moan that I paid more for a car where I could've got nearly the same for a lot cheaper, why? because its considered a luxury item.

If you're too cheap to afford something or don't want to fork out the price to buy one, then don't complain about it. You can look at anything that is sold at a store or such and you'll see price differences, sometimes on the same item.

Just deal with it. If you want to save some cash, shop around to look for the best price that you'll take.

 

[Luzzio]

sorry but...

Lesson #1. "What something costs to build has absolutely nothing to do with how much you sell it for."

ABSOLUTELY nothing?

 

[mosx]

1. ok yea osx and vista have their software, however osx is more "people" orientated. in terms of u kno music, video blaablaa. i jsut find vista to be more, uummm.. i dont know how to put it, but u get what i mean.

directx video acceleration, never heard of it. have to look into it.

DXVA is something Apple desperately needs an equivalent to Theres absolutely no reason that 640x480 H.264 video playback in iTunes should eat up 20-30% CPU time (single core) when a modern GPU could do it and keep CPU use below 5% and not even kick the fans up or eat up more battery life.

2. the only time ive had bad BT reception was when the batteries died, so i replaced them and its working all sweet as again. no problems AT ALL.

Then you can consider yourself lucky. All people at one point or another have experienced connection issues with Bluetooth. It really is unreliable technology.

3. yea mobile phone support, all compatable BT sony erricson has support to use this "media presentation" mode (in my country anyway). apple remote would be easy for preview presentations, but with the phone you can control the mouse, have arrow keys and many more.

Sony? No thanks. I won't downgrade from my iPhone to a Sony product

4. i have two stations set up over WDS, this doesnt help my speeds i know. but seriously. 802.11g maxes out in the crapper. its fine for net usage up to ADSL2+, but not for transferring data, which is what i do alot of (transferring downloads, movies, rips from here to there etc)
i have time machine, it goes plenty far.
however i will be getting gigabit cables put in the house soon so thats not an issue for much longer.

But most people won't be doing file transfers or anything like that. 802.11n doesn't live up to its specs either. And as I said, its still not finalized. Things could change and render all current hardware obsolete.

5. yea ok you showed a bit of the oppositions story, im still not convinced

Your loss

yea HP computers are ******, however their printers and some other hardware are quite awsome and cool (ugly but

My HP notebook was almost $500 cheaper than my MacBook. Has a 2GHz C2D (Santa Rosa), 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, GeForce 8400M GS with HDCP certified HDMI output, fingerprint reader, memory card reader, express card slot, VGA, S-Video, multiple audio outputs, Firewire, modem, etc. Its also built more strongly than my MacBook and the real world battery life is pretty similar. Oh and its a 15.4" screen.

if I buy a WinPC, it'll be a Toshiba, most likely, as I've had good experiences with Toshiba, and their laptops appeal to me more than others.

It's ironic that you'd pick Toshiba over HP because you've heard bad things about HP. You should do a little research. Toshiba is notorious for dropping support for problematic products and doing everything they can to try to get out of honoring their warranty.

I went there for quite a while with my ZD8000 laptop. You'd be surprised how many threads are on that site, specifically regarding screen problems, case cracking, power supply issues, battery issues, etc.

HP has come a long way in the last few years regarding build quality and other things. They're one of the few manufacturers that actually removes the power connector from the motherboard and builds it in a manner that it can withstand the stress of being moved around and constant disconnects and reconnects.

The Macbook Pro is a very capable and strong machine. The high end 17' model is one of the best laptops you can buy, it is thin, stylish and cool. It got it all.

But the Macbook... it's 13' but its really heavy. Next to a 15' MBP it looks like its about the same size. it does not have any cool features like backlit keyboard, or something like that. It even has the same integrated card that the Air has, which is sad giving the difference between the two in form factor. The MB is beautiful, but its so heavy for its size and not very portable at all.
I would have pay so much more, for a better MB.
Or said in another way... a very high end portable 10'-13' computer.

The MacBook is a better machine than the MacBook Pro.

Why? Well, the MacBook doesn't have the fancy backlit keyboard. But so what? 99% of the time I need to actually see the keyboard (I do know how to type after all) the keyboard is lit by either ambient lighting or the screen itself.

The MacBook Pro is not worth the money simply because of the price. All of the machines are priced about $1,000 (or more) more than they should be. For $2000 you can get a Windows PC with dual GPUs, blu-ray disc burners, etc. For $2,500 you get dual GeForce 8800M GTXs and blu-ray burners.

Stop complaining about the specs. Do you complain about specs when you buy a car? No, people just buy what they like. Its obvious many here on this forum like the OSX OS and the Apple style products. You pay a premium for a luxury item. Just for example, I drive an Acura RSX. I paid about $4000 bucks more then the Honda Civic EX, which apparently, is virtually the same as the RSX except the brand and outer body design (we even use the same radio and such). I don't whine and moan that I paid more for a car where I could've got nearly the same for a lot cheaper, why? because its considered a luxury item.

If you're too cheap to afford something or don't want to fork out the price to buy one, then don't complain about it. You can look at anything that is sold at a store or such and you'll see price differences, sometimes on the same item.

Just deal with it. If you want to save some cash, shop around to look for the best price that you'll take.

Macs are anything but luxury items when you consider they give you less functionality than something costing several hundred, or even a thousand dollars or more less.. AND they're built from the same parts.

To be considered a "luxury item" the product in question has to be made from higher quality parts (Apple uses the same parts and manufacturers as everyone else does now) and offer increased functionality.

Macs are anything but luxury items. Neither is your Acura Its the lesser car but with a prettier body.

 

[UltraNEO*]

Here is comparison of 2 laptops- HP dv6700z and Macbook

Macbook 2.1 GHz - $1099; 2.4 GHz $1299

Hp dv6700z with standard AMD Athlon 1.9 GHz is
+$50 for 2.1 or +$75 for 2.2 or+150 for 2.4 to the standard price.

apple memory standard is 1 GB. +$100 to upgrade to 2GB. or +$500 for 4GB.

HP comes with 1GB. there is free upgrade to 2 GB. 4GB +$150

to upgrade dv6700z to 256 MB video card you will have to pay $99 extra.
Macbook doesn't offer this option.

wireless and bluetooth for dv6700z will cost you +$45. It is included in Macbook price.

dv6700z has dvd burner. Macbook doesn't unless you will pay for more expesive 2.4 model.
for +$15 you can get lightscribe with dv6700z.

hard drive update for macbook is +$50 for 160Gb or $150 to 250GB vs +$25 for 160GB and +$75 for 250GB. Hell you can upgrade dv6700z to 320GB for $150!

+$19 will cost you System recovery dvd for dv6700z.

So summarize this- 2.1 macbook 4GB,250 GB sold for $1749 vs 2.1 HP 256Mb video card, Microphone, webcam, wireless LAN, bluetooth, 320GB hard drive, Lightscribe, OS recovery DVD, dv6700z for $1133.99. So savings of $615!!!
So basically you end up paying for OS X $615!!!

To be fare to replace AMD processor with Intel and it will be $ 1272.99. So still $476 savings!

OK... Dunno why so many people does it.
But it's like comparing "Apples and Oranges" to be perfectly honest.

Most users who opt for Mac does so cause they want a better computing experience with a friendly more intuitive interface.. Hence MacOSX. For the most, your paying for it's brand and design, kinda like buying a Louis Vuitton shirt.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

It's ironic that you'd pick Toshiba over HP because you've heard bad things about HP. You should do a little research. Toshiba is notorious for dropping support for problematic products and doing everything they can to try to get out of honoring their warranty.

I'm going by personal experience..I've never met anyone who has an HP laptop that hails it as an amazing machine, all my Toshiba laptops and my friends' in the past have been reliable, and one of my friends dunked his laptop in water (on purpose) 3 years after he bought the computer, and his warranty covered it, for a brand new laptop. Cost him like $180, three years, no-exceptions coverage..

 

[mosx]

I'm going by personal experience..I've never met anyone who has an HP laptop that hails it as an amazing machine, all my Toshiba laptops and my friends' in the past have been reliable, and one of my friends dunked his laptop in water (on purpose) 3 years after he bought the computer, and his warranty covered it, for a brand new laptop. Cost him like $180, three years, no-exceptions coverage..

All manufacturers except Apple offer some kind of accidental coverage. HP does, Dell does, etc.

I wouldn't buy a Toshiba because they are notorious for dropping products and support for problematic products and doing everything they can to get out of supporting the warranty for that product. Head over to notebookreview and check back to 2006. The most popular Toshiba notebook during that time had some keyboard issues. Toshiba literally dropped the product from the line and the only way people could get their system fixed was.. well, to threaten and even take legal action.

Toshiba doesn't stand behind their products (HD DVD, they drop MP3 players like flies, computers) and the quality isn't very good.

Give me an Apple or an HP over a Toshiba any day.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

All manufacturers except Apple offer some kind of accidental coverage. HP does, Dell does, etc.

I wouldn't buy a Toshiba because they are notorious for dropping products and support for problematic products and doing everything they can to get out of supporting the warranty for that product. Head over to notebookreview and check back to 2006. The most popular Toshiba notebook during that time had some keyboard issues. Toshiba literally dropped the product from the line and the only way people could get their system fixed was.. well, to threaten and even take legal action.

Toshiba doesn't stand behind their products (HD DVD, they drop MP3 players like flies, computers) and the quality isn't very good.

Give me an Apple or an HP over a Toshiba any day.

I wasn't denying the existence of other accidental plans. I've never had good experiences with Dell, I've heard bad things about HP, and I've had good experiences with Toshiba. I'm not arguing the overall quality control of any of them..simply my personal experience. I don't plan on buying a WinPC again anyways, I was just saying that if I did, it'd probably be Toshiba.

What does it matter, anyways, what my choices in purchase are? I've had good experience with Apple, I've had good experience with Toshiba, and if I have a really bad experience with either, I'll go elsewhere..simple as that.