Overhauled Podcast App in iOS 11 to Bring Richer User Experience and Listener Analytics

[SteveW928]

And the subscription model he's employed is a good attempt but paying that kind of money for a function that can be had for far cheaper is not going to last long with anyone other than an Arment friend or supporter.

I don't think I use any of the paid features apart from ad removal. The price is fine, my beef is more about lack of support. Because he's caching podcast feeds, I've run across situations where the latest episodes just stop. Tweet or email him, and nothing. Luckily, the problems have resolved (after months!), but that's not good. Had they been one of the more important podcasts I follow, I'd have had to use two apps.

That said, I think that's the best feature. I subscribe to around 60 podcasts, and each time I'd fire up Apple's app, I'd have to watch it try and update 60 feeds (which took 5-10 minutes before I bought my SE). And, 60 podcasts is actually a LOT of data reading all the feeds if one wanted to do that over cellular (probably more than download of a few episodes, actually). But, if feeds get stuck, that turns a great feature into a problem.

The last UI update sealed the deal for me. Not being able to tap on a podcast episode (or a play button on the episode) and have it play is a bad UI decision.

Yea, I've had mixed feelings about the UI updates. But, I have to blame Apple for much of them, as they were the ones that pushed iOS towards flat design. They also led by example of doing it very poorly.

UI/UX, which was once Apple's strong-point has been highly damaged, if not destroyed. I can't blame individual developers too much when they follow suit.

It also lacks the fine-grained speed-control that Pocket Casts has - I normally listen to pod casts on 110%...

Heh, I had to chuckle a bit there. I think I'm now up around 2.6x-3x for about 80% of my content.

Overcast undobtedly has some great features, but Marco’s “eff everybody that doesn’t 100% agree with me” attitude has clouded his development of this app, and he’s been going down the road of UI/UX hell for months now. It’s a nightmare to navigate now. Tap. Swipe. Drop down. Tap. Swipe Right. Scroll down. Oops. Start over. Tap. Swipe. Oops. Damnit! Tap. Swipe. yeah, no thanks.

Highly opinionated... hehe. I think I appreciate that about him though... maybe birds of a feather. I find I often agree with him on tech stuff, and disagree on most everything else.

But, yes, communication and feedback don't seem to be his strengths. That's OK, but then he should find some way to address that.

Besides, there’s honestly not enought there to “buy.”

I disagree. I paid, and I'm not using the paid features. I'd have paid if he just put up a Patreon page too. I think it's well worth it.

Yes, this week, it’s free. We’ll see what happens next week. ... But overall, it’s a good solution to the how-to-get-money-from-cheap-people-who-only-want-free-apps problem.

Isn't it always free and then pay to unlock features/remove ads?

In the beginning, podcasts were something people did for fun. They didn't care about deep stats to sell to advertisers. Now it is big business.

It still is. I don't think anything has changed except the 800 pound gorillas have now stomped in the room (hello NPR, etc.?).

Just listen to Rob on Libsyn's "The Feed" podcast if you get the chance (when he gets on one of his soap-boxes). They are relatively clueless, but big enough to bend Apple's ear.

Real podcasters know the important stat is how engaged your audience is, along with appropriate niches and interests... not deep stats and downloads and such.

I'm old enough to remember all the buzz around 'clicks' and 'page-loads' back before the dot-com bust. They didn't get it then... they still don't.
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The last several iterations of the Podcast app seem like they were made by someone who doesn't listen to podcasts.

I commute on a train to and from work. I fill that time with podcasts, mostly. And the Apple app seems hellbent on getting in the way rather than just making it easy for me to listen.

No doubt! And, unfortunately, that somewhat seems to apply to Apple's whole eco-system anymore.

 

[err404]

Just give me a 30 sec skip instead of next track and I'll switch.

 

[Traverse]

I hope they offer more playback speed options.

I'd like 1.25x
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I'd like to at least see them cut down on the battery it consumes. Somehow that app seems to blast through battery far faster than the music app. I never stream. I always download episodes. Simple audio playback should not take that much power.

I've never noticed this. I just looked at my battery usage...I do listen to a lot of podcasts, but 17%?

 

[jonnysods]

It's always been a bit clunky. Looking forward to a more usable experience

 

[Wandering Wastrel]

I can understand why podcasters would want "in-episode analytics". I can't think of any reason I'd care to supply that data to them, though. Eh, I don't use the Apple app for podcast listening anyway.

But if you're a podcaster, do you really want to know how many listeners really are skipping all your ads? I mean, sure, it's a reasonable suspicion that some users are skipping them. But if you have actual data on that, the advertisers are going to demand to know that data -- and if hardly anyone is listening to them, will the advertisers keep buying ads?

I wonder if this will be a great tool for podcasters, or a giant scythe that mows many of them down.

 

[Number 41]

The lack of support for podcasts on the Apple Watch remains endlessly frustrating.

 

[mox358]

But if you're a podcaster, do you really want to know how many listeners really are skipping all your ads?

I wonder if this will be a great tool for podcasters, or a giant scythe that mows many of them down.

I agree with you that showing podcasters that people are skipping their ads could be a slippery slope, but there are other uses for this tech too.

I co-host a podcast that doesn't have advertisers but we could totally improve our show with analytics. Being able to tell which segments of show listeners are skipping means we can rework or remove segments and get episode by episode feedback. That would be pretty great for a small show like ours.

 

[AZ63]

As a daily Podcast app end user I am hoping Apple brings back some lost functionality like being able to rate a podcast in the app as we used to be able to do. Why Apple removed that feature is a mystery to me.

 

[SteveW928]

I can understand why podcasters would want "in-episode analytics". I can't think of any reason I'd care to supply that data to them, though. Eh, I don't use the Apple app for podcast listening anyway. ... But if you have actual data on that, the advertisers are going to demand to know that data -- and if hardly anyone is listening to them, will the advertisers keep buying ads?

For sure. I'm not opposed to podcasters having more data. It's more that I know who's pushing for it and why. It's the old-school radio folks who think they need it, mostly. They (falsely) believe they have good data currently (in traditional broadcast) and want it in podcasting as well. In reality, they probably have worse data than podcasters already have.

And, the problem with this is that if the podcast 'industry' does move in that direction, it could have a big impact on what is already a struggle to get advertisers or sponsors. In other words, we don't want traditional metrics applied! 99% of podcasters don't want a few bucks CPM. That would be crazy, and way undervalue most podcasts.

Besides, traditional ads don't work that well in podcasts anyway. What works, are real relationships with vendors that are good fits to the audience, naturally used and promoted by the host. When podcasting becomes - insert generic 30-second as spot here - of course people will just hit the 30-second skip button, or turn it off.... just like they are now doing with traditional media.

... but there are other uses for this tech too.

... Being able to tell which segments of show listeners are skipping means we can rework or remove segments and get episode by episode feedback. That would be pretty great for a small show like ours.

Absolutely! It's good data to have, just not for the reasons NPR and the other traditional media folks are demanding it.

 

[DNAppleGold]

Meh, he's blown his advantage at this point. Pocket Casts is far more reliable, doesn't come out with updates twice a week ( one to fix a bug and another to fix something broken by the fix). And the subscription model he's employed is a good attempt but paying that kind of money for a function that can be had for far cheaper is not going to last long with anyone other than an Arment friend or supporter. The last UI update sealed the deal for me. Not being able to tap on a podcast episode (or a play button on the episode) and have it play is a bad UI decision.

Not to turn this into an overcast thread, but I like a lot of the new UI. I particularly like how they've incorporated forced touch and allow you to store podcasts on the watch. Not perfect but overall I like it. YMMV

 

[budselectjr]

More analytics aren't going to fix the broken advertiser driven podcast model.

 

[SteveW928]

More analytics aren't going to fix the broken advertiser driven podcast model.

IMO, it's not so much that podcasts can't be supported by advertising. The problem is more how the relationship is seen and implemented.

In traditional advertising, you're typically making a shot-gun approach into - possibly - a market segment. Aside from doing something like a promo code (which you can easily do in a podcast), you have little idea how many people listened or even responded to your ad either. In fact, podcast downloads is probably a more accurate view of real audience than a radio, TV, or newspaper have.

That's why Facebook and Google are kind of exciting to advertisers, as you can actually have a much more targeted audience. I certainly understand why advertisers might want the data that's being requested, it's what they know.

But, I don't think they really understand the medium. Unless we're talking some big NPR show, most podcasts are already quite niche with a very specific, highly-engaged audience. So, instead of blasting a message to an audience of 10,000 and hoping to engage 100, that podcast with 100 listeners might actually be a more valuable audience from the get-go.

Second, if the advertiser/audience is really a good match, it's likely the host of the podcast will be interested as well. If they use and love the product, they can make a very natural introduction to the audience which will convert WAY higher than any form of traditional advertising.

So, the real problem here is a hold-over from traditional media and traditional advertisers. They don't get this new environment so they want to force it into THEIR mold. Instead, they need to learn how the new environment works, and adapt. IMO, podcast sponsorship and advertising done well is likely the best advertising medium available, if it's done right.

(And, I say this both in terms of knowing a good bit about the industry, and as a podcast consumer who has been highly influenced towards buying products I've learned about via podcasts.)

 

[The Game 161]

but still no podcast app on apple watch ugh

 

[SteveW928]

but still no podcast app on apple watch ugh

Hehe, yes, that would be an actual use for the Apple Watch (for me).

BTW, Overcast has the capability to push episodes to the Watch. I think it re-encodes them, as the Watch doesn't support the right formats to just sync them over.

 

[The Game 161]

Hehe, yes, that would be an actual use for the Apple Watch (for me).

BTW, Overcast has the capability to push episodes to the Watch. I think it re-encodes them, as the Watch doesn't support the right formats to just sync them over.

Yeah overcast is great for Apple Watch. The design needs abit of work though

 

[Fall Under Cerulean Kites]

I disagree. I paid, and I'm not using the paid features. I'd have paid if he just put up a Patreon page too. I think it's well worth it.

Sorry, I was actually referrring to another commenter that said “Apple should just buy Overcast.” And I was saying that there’s “not enough there” for Apple to buy. Not enough value in the application - nothing so specialized that their internal coders couldn’t replicate. And no desire to buy Overcast as an acqui-hire in order to get Marco. I can’t see Apple ever hiring Marco.

Isn't it always free and then pay to unlock features/remove ads?

Before the ads were put in place, it was free but other features were IAP. Then it was free and full featured. Then it was free with patreon donations. Then I think it was made free, full featured, but with ads.

Marco talked at length about the ad system. Without putting words in his mouth, I recall he felt he’d rather have people see the ads than pay because he can make more money that way. And the ads are actually great. Most are for podcasts, and are very relevent, in general. There’s no viagra ads, ads with audio/video, etc. I’ll actually say the ads are fantastic.

 

[budselectjr]

IMO, it's not so much that podcasts can't be supported by advertising. The problem is more how the relationship is seen and implemented.

In traditional advertising, you're typically making a shot-gun approach into - possibly - a market segment. Aside from doing something like a promo code (which you can easily do in a podcast), you have little idea how many people listened or even responded to your ad either. In fact, podcast downloads is probably a more accurate view of real audience than a radio, TV, or newspaper have.

That's why Facebook and Google are kind of exciting to advertisers, as you can actually have a much more targeted audience. I certainly understand why advertisers might want the data that's being requested, it's what they know.

But, I don't think they really understand the medium. Unless we're talking some big NPR show, most podcasts are already quite niche with a very specific, highly-engaged audience. So, instead of blasting a message to an audience of 10,000 and hoping to engage 100, that podcast with 100 listeners might actually be a more valuable audience from the get-go.

Second, if the advertiser/audience is really a good match, it's likely the host of the podcast will be interested as well. If they use and love the product, they can make a very natural introduction to the audience which will convert WAY higher than any form of traditional advertising.

So, the real problem here is a hold-over from traditional media and traditional advertisers. They don't get this new environment so they want to force it into THEIR mold. Instead, they need to learn how the new environment works, and adapt. IMO, podcast sponsorship and advertising done well is likely the best advertising medium available, if it's done right.

(And, I say this both in terms of knowing a good bit about the industry, and as a podcast consumer who has been highly influenced towards buying products I've learned about via podcasts.)

Well now all advertisers are gonna ask for your podcast's "Apple stats". Those will be some fun disscusions for those who make false claims about their listenership numbers.

 

[stevet]

I don't think I use any of the paid features apart from ad removal. The price is fine, my beef is more about lack of support. Because he's caching podcast feeds, I've run across situations where the latest episodes just stop. Tweet or email him, and nothing. Luckily, the problems have resolved (after months!), but that's not good. Had they been one of the more important podcasts I follow, I'd have had to use two apps.

That said, I think that's the best feature. I subscribe to around 60 podcasts, and each time I'd fire up Apple's app, I'd have to watch it try and update 60 feeds (which took 5-10 minutes before I bought my SE). And, 60 podcasts is actually a LOT of data reading all the feeds if one wanted to do that over cellular (probably more than download of a few episodes, actually). But, if feeds get stuck, that turns a great feature into a problem.


Yea, I've had mixed feelings about the UI updates. But, I have to blame Apple for much of them, as they were the ones that pushed iOS towards flat design. They also led by example of doing it very poorly.

UI/UX, which was once Apple's strong-point has been highly damaged, if not destroyed. I can't blame individual developers too much when they follow suit.

Ya, I mean at this point most of the top podcast catchers do the same core features. And while Overcasts best features where the silence trimming and the audio processing that he does (which is good), Pocket Casts (and others?) do similar enough processing that it makes that less of a reason to stay with it.

I agree about the caching and customer support. I'm ok with the caching as long as things get acknowledge, see the Pocket Casts team for that, they are responsive if someone has an issue. Overcast... like you said, it's a black hole. One in which he used to mention on his podcast with great pride, when I used to tune in to it. Like it was a badge of honor to not reply to someone that is really having an issue. I'm biased now I guess but he's just not a likable person imo.

Regarding the UI, he put the information icon on the podcast instead of a play button, makes no sense to me. While the flat design is driven by Apple, that was really his decision.
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It's free now

It's free with ads, iirc. And besides, he's not in business for long if no one pays.

 

[spetznatz]

All I need it to do is sync a playlist containing my subscribed podcasts released over the last two weeks to my iPhone, and it can't even do that consistently or reliably. The Music app never missed a beat in this respect. And I have absolutely no interest in streaming podcasts...

 

[Liamda1y]

I haven't used Podcast apps for awhile now, switched to Pocket Casts, does the podcast app still have issues syncing which episodes you've played and not played between devices, along with positioning syncing?

The reason I switched to Pocket Casts is because I always used to have issues between iTunes, iPad and iPhone with position playback, which episodes I've completed and new subscriptions. I would be tempted to go back but I had so many issues I gave up with it.

Edit...

All I need it to do is sync a playlist containing my subscribed podcasts released over the last two weeks to my iPhone, and it can't even do that consistently or reliably. The Music app never missed a beat in this respect. And I have absolutely no interest in streaming podcasts...

I take that as a no then. Why can't Apple get this right? They should just acqui-hire Pocket Casts and rebrand it. Its the perfect App.
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All I need it to do is sync a playlist containing my subscribed podcasts released over the last two weeks to my iPhone, and it can't even do that consistently or reliably. The Music app never missed a beat in this respect. And I have absolutely no interest in streaming podcasts...

The last several iterations of the Podcast app seem like they were made by someone who doesn't listen to podcasts.

I commute on a train to and from work. I fill that time with podcasts, mostly. And the Apple app seems hellbent on getting in the way rather than just making it easy for me to listen.

Doesn't surprise me they ruined the Music app in iOS 9/10 by baking in Apple Music and Cloud Library, and the first stuff you see is cloud music instead of stuff locally. The old music app in iOS 8 was perfect.

 

[jagooch]

I sent this to Apple feedback, copy and submit it if you like. I really want trim silent and volume boost!

Feature request
I request the trim silence and voice boost features for IOS podcasts . The features have been available for competitive apps like Overcast and PocketCasts for years, and it's a feature that users have come to expect in Podcast players.

The lack of these features are what keeps me from using your product. Please add these features!

 

[SteveW928]

I sent this to Apple feedback, copy and submit it if you like. I really want trim silent and volume boost!

Feature request
I request the trim silence and voice boost features for IOS podcasts . The features have been available for competitive apps like Overcast and PocketCasts for years, and it's a feature that users have come to expect in Podcast players.

The lack of these features are what keeps me from using your product. Please add these features!

Sorta, but I'd probably still use Overcast. The big feature besides the above, is that it stops the App from having to scan each podcast RSS feed, which when you're subscribed to over 50, took *many* minutes (and a bunch of data) each time I launched the app.

The downside of Overcast, is that it isn't well supported, though it's also not often I have issues. The Apple Podcast app, though, there's effectively zero support.
(I thought I should maybe expand on this a bit... Because Overcast uses their own servers to read podcast feeds and check for new episodes, the app isn't directly scanning feeds like Apple's app. As I said, that's the main thing I like... but it can also be it's weakness if something goes wrong at the Overcast server level. For example, you might notice after some time that one of your podcasts hasn't had a new episode in a while, go check their site or in iTunes, and there are new episodes. At that point, what do you do? This has happened a few times to me in the last 6-9 months. I've sent emails/tweets, and never hear back. Eventually, the problems go away, but it's still a pain. In one case, it took like 2 months until the feed resumed and suddenly a had a ton of new episodes to get through. IMO, that's unacceptable in terms of support, especially when I've paid/donated to fund the app. If the dev was struggling to survive, that would be one thing, but in listening to podcasts he's on, I don't think that's the case. He just seems to have a 'I don't include/do support' type attitude. That's too bad, as it's one of the very few flaws in an otherwise exceptional app.)

 

[Rommelnoodles]

Has anyone figured out how to write reviews on iOS 11? I’ve been looking everywhere but can’t figure it out. I can read reviews but nothing I can see to actually write one in the podcast.app