Overwatch not coming to Mac OS X

[Regime2008]

Oh.. Now we're into 'gaming must be at 5k'... Neat. Remember this?

We were talking about older hardware when you mentioned YOUR computer. Now we are talking about modern computers with the Rx 580, 575, etc. I wouldn't buy a 4k or 5k monitor to play games at 1080p lol. Who does that? That's why I said it's not worth it when you have to lower resolution and change settings (you can even quote my earlier post which states this). I used to game on an ultrawide 2560x1080p monitor. I then upgraded to a gtx 1080 Ti to play at 3440x1440. It would be stupid of me to try and game at that default resolution, without a GPU upgrade wouldn't it?

 

[JordanNZ]

We were talking about older hardware when you mentioned YOUR computer. Now we are talking about modern computers with the Rx 580, 575, etc. I wouldn't buy a 4k or 5k monitor to play games at 1080p lol. Who does that? That's why I said it's not worth it when you have to lower resolution and change settings (you can even quote my earlier post which states this). I used to game on an ultrawide 2560x1080p monitor. I then upgraded to a gtx 1080 Ti to play at 3440x1440. It would be stupid of me to try and game at that default resolution, without a GPU upgrade wouldn't it?

Dude.. Stop shifting the goalposts.

What's your point?

My point is that macs dating back to 2012 could play overwatch at 1080p/60fps happily. Many modern macs would run it ever better (higher resolution/settings).

What exactly is your point?....

 

[Regime2008]

Dude.. Stop shifting the goalposts.

What's your point?

My point is that macs dating back to 2012 could play overwatch at 1080p/60fps happily. Many modern macs would run it ever better (higher resolution/settings).

What exactly is your point?....

While you don't mind downgraded visuals, I do. Seems to just be a matter of difference of opinion. I come from the PC side of things, you come from Mac side. I specifically chose my components so that they will just work, for its intended purpose. That's the whole point of building your own setup. I doubt Apple intended for its users to dramatically lower the resolution in order to play games. Then again that could be why Apple doesn't have much of a library of games.

 

[JordanNZ]

While you don't mind downgraded visuals, I do. Seems to just be a matter of difference of opinion. I come from the PC side of things, you come from Mac side. I specifically chose my components so that they will just work, for its intended purpose. That's the whole point of building your own setup. I doubt Apple intended for its users to dramatically lower the resolution in order to play games. Then again that could be why Apple doesn't have much of a library of games.

So... We are back at 'unless you can play at 5K 60fps Ultra'... It's a waste of time?..

 

[Regime2008]

So... We are back at 'unless you can play at 5K 60fps Ultra'... It's a waste of time?..

I don't think you get the point. Apple pairs 4/5k panels with sub par gpu's for it's intended native resolution. That's like trying to haul a couple of tons with a Ford Pinto. It doesn't make sense. While it works for watching videos and basic video/picture editing. It will not fare well with games at native or half of its native resolution. Would you buy and Xbox 360 and a 4k TV to play at 4k resolution? I would hope not, as the hardware wouldn't be up to par.

On the PC side of things, a VERY common thing to do is, pairing a GPU with a Display. See Here. Isn't the whole point of having a Mac, because of its simplicity, and how it just "works"? Why tinker with all the settings? If someone is spending over 3k on a computer, don't you think it should be able to do much more than a PC that costs a FRACTION of the price, yet can run circles around the high end Mac's?

 

[JordanNZ]

I don't think you get the point. Apple pairs 4/5k panels with sub par gpu's for it's intended native resolution. That's like trying to haul a couple of tons with a Ford Pinto. It doesn't make sense. While it works for watching videos and basic video/picture editing. It will not fare well with games at native or half of its native resolution. Would you buy and Xbox 360 and a 4k TV to play at 4k resolution? I would hope not, as the hardware wouldn't be up to par.

On the PC side of things, a VERY common thing to do is, pairing a GPU with a Display. See Here. Isn't the whole point of having a Mac, because of its simplicity, and how it just "works"? Why tinker with all the settings? If someone is spending over 3k on a computer, don't you think it should be able to do much more than a PC that costs a FRACTION of the price, yet can run circles around the high end Mac's?

Again.. You've shifted the goalposts.. And gone off on a total strawman argument.

Back to the point.

Modern macs will play overwatch fine at a decent frame rate.
Do you agree with this? Because this is the only point I've been trying to make this entire time.

I'm not debating the merits of 5k resolution.. Or gaming PCs, or anything along those lines.

I'm saying that overwatch will run at a decent frame rate on modern macs.

 

[Regime2008]

Again.. You've shifted the goalposts.. And gone off on a total strawman argument.

Back to the point.

Modern macs will play overwatch fine at a decent frame rate.
Do you agree with this? Because this is the only point I've been trying to make this entire time.

I'm not debating the merits of 5k resolution.. Or gaming PCs, or anything along those lines.

I'm saying that overwatch will run at a decent frame rate on modern macs.

Ok scarescrow the strawman... I started off with saying Apple doesn't offer good GPU's, and that the RX 580 is the best GPU they currently have. Then I said the next best GPU probably can't play games at a constant 60fps. You still following? I then mentioned it's not worth lowering the resolution and settings just to maintain a stable framerate, and that it would be worth upgrading the GPU. I even entertained your comments about your computer.

With that out of the way, you should be able to make the conclusion from my post's that:
1) Apple doesn't use the best GPU's
2) Rx 580 is the best that Apple offers currently in its Mac's.
3) Playing at a lower resolution and lowering the settings, just to hold a stable framerate, isn't worth it to me.

Instead of trying to moving goalposts, you should have been able to conclude that I wouldn't lower the resolution and settings in a game, if my computer couldn't handle it AT DEFAULT RESOLUTION/SETTINGS. So why are you trying to change my opinion on what I consider playable, vs what you consider playable? I even mentioned upgrading the GPU, vs buying a whole new computer.

Here's one of the first results when searching for buying a 4k monitor and upgrading the GPU.

"You want a good enough GPU to push enough frames to your monitor at its optimal resolution. A GTX 1070 on a 1080p/60 monitor, for example, might be overkill for most pre-2016 games. Still, a higher-end GPU means you have headroom to dial-up the image quality with higher anti-aliasing settings, use NVIDIA's Dynamic Super Resolution, or turn up Physx effects, even if you're stuck at 1080p/60. A 1440p/144 monitor won't do much for you if your GPU can't pump out more than 60 fps at that resolution. If you're forced to go down to 1080p on a 1440p monitor to get playable frame rates, you've wasted your money on the monitor."

Bonus question! If I said I wouldn't downgrade the resolution or change the settings on whatever hardware I am playing on (with the examples of 2012 imac with a 2k panel, or the Mac with the 5k display and Rx 580)...Why on earth would I lower the resolution to 1080p, after I explicitly stated that IT'S NOT WORTH DOWNGRADING THE RESOLUTION OR SETTINGS over 50 posts back? Do you now understand that you have been quoting me over and over for no reason now? Sorry if I had to state the resolution/settings part so many more times.

 

[Eric5h5]

I then mentioned it's not worth

Yeah, you keep making these entirely subjective claims and presenting them as objective. Over and over and over again. Guess what, this topic isn't about what YOU consider playable or whatever. Frankly, nobody cares.

--Eric

 

[Regime2008]

Yeah, you keep making these entirely subjective claims and presenting them as objective. Over and over and over again. Guess what, this topic isn't about what YOU consider playable or whatever. Frankly, nobody cares.

--Eric

You obviously care enough to quote me or even keep up for that matter. Well the both of you actually. And I did state that it was my opinion, that many other gamers and companies just so happen to share as well. Otherwise, why would Nvidia and AMD keep pushing for better and better GPU's. Why are displays having an increase in resolution every so often?

 

[Eric5h5]

I don't care about what you consider playable, I care that you're 100% determined to keep missing the point. The minimum specs included integrated graphics, and the recommended specs start with a HD 7950. Plenty of Macs have the hardware to run the game. Get over it. You keep insisting "but...but...ultra settings 4K 60fps etc. etc." Not. The. Point.

--Eric

 

[Regime2008]

Now I highly doubt Overwatch will come to Mac anytime soon...But I really hope it does. I have never been the type to be fond of "exclusives", as they segregate people from really fun games. With that being said, if this game does come to Mac, I would hope Apple will start giving a **** about its users. The whole idea of eGPU's or having to spend so much on hardware, that is laughable at best when it comes to driving today's AAA games.

Even if Apple can somehow jump into the gaming market overnight, it would be almost impossible to persuade PC users to spend over 3x the amount of money, for comparable hardware that they already had. And from the look of their future lineup, it doesn't seem like they really want to have performance or even replaceable GPU's.

I don't care about what you consider playable, I care that you're 100% determined to keep missing the point. The minimum specs included integrated graphics, and the recommended specs start with a HD 7950. Plenty of Macs have the hardware to run the game. Get over it. You keep insisting "but...but...ultra settings 4K 60fps etc. etc." Not. The. Point.

--Eric

Page 7, post #173. I kinda made my point long before all this, before the topic was derailed... I never said the game had to be played at 4k resolution. Why do you keep missing that? I keep insisting that it is illogical and a waste of money to get a 4k/5k panel, to play games at 1080p because the gpu is limited. Ask ANY experienced PC builder and see what they say.

Let's say the this gen and last gen iMacs can play overwatch at 1080p. Guess what, it would still be a downgraded experience if you need to lower the resolution and turn down the settings. The iMac 5k panel doesn't scale well to 1080p first and foremost. Best option would be 2560x1440 and drop the resolution scaling down to about 50-75%. Again, I personally wouldn't be happy with spending a couple grand, only to have a downgraded experience. This is my opinion, and I will be sticking to it.

So, I'll leave you with this. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20748695772 Opinions of Overwatch players, on official blizzard forums, talking about the game coming to Mac. It's not just me who feels this way, but the majority of people in anything gaming affiliated, in regards to Apple. If someone is stuck in Apple's eco system, they can still build a Hackintosh for a fraction of the price, and be able to play games - unrestricted and not throttled by heat and loud jet engine fans blaring from an iMac.

 

[JordanNZ]

That's not what he meant. Apple doesn't offer good gpu's, and the 580 is the best they offer currently. Their second best gpu offered probably can't play overwatch at a consistent 60fps, which i personally feel is pretty low for a fps.

I keep quoting you on your earlier posts (like this one) because you refuse to see the point I’m trying to make, and continuously try to shift the debate to something completely different (4K/gaming PCs etc).

See this post I’ve quoted here?... your statement isn’t based in fact. Which I’ve shown over and over.

Instead of accepting that, you keep trying to change the topic to something else.

I’ll reiterate my point again for you.


Modern macs will play overwatch at a decent frame rate.

 

[Regime2008]

I keep quoting you on your earlier posts (like this one) because you refuse to see the point I’m trying to make, and continuously try to shift the debate to something completely different (4K/gaming PCs etc).

See this post I’ve quoted here?... your statement isn’t based in fact. Which I’ve shown over and over.

Instead of accepting that, you keep trying to change the topic to something else.

I’ll reiterate my point again for you.


Modern macs will play overwatch at a decent frame rate.

Never shifted debate. Look at my first post in this thread. Did I not say it will work? I keep referring to downgraded performance, which obviously means it can run, but to what extent?

Why do you keep dodging my points about having to lower the resolution and visual quality? Especially when Apple sells these things at high dollar? I don't get the defense for a product that was never intended for gaming in the first place.

They offer a better Gpu than the 580? Or the part about Apple not having good GPU's? Which part was not fact? My assumption, with the word PROBABLY?

If the game is installed, and opened without changing any settings, the game will default to the monitor's resolution. At that point, even the 580 will dip under 60fps. So in actuality, even my assumption technically is a fact.

 

[JordanNZ]

Never shifted debate. Look at my first post in this thread. Did I not say it will work? I keep referring to downgraded performance, which obviously means it can run, but to what extent?

Why do you keep dodging my points about having to lower the resolution and visual quality? Especially when Apple sells these things at high dollar? I don't get the defense for a product that was never intended for gaming in the first place.

They offer a better Gpu than the 580? Or the part about Apple not having good GPU's? Which part was not fact? My assumption, with the word PROBABLY?

If the game is installed, and opened without changing any settings, the game will default to the monitor's resolution. At that point, even the 580 will dip under 60fps. So in actuality, even my assumption technically is a fact.

Because

You don't speak for everyone either. No one said anything about 4k 120fps. I only mentioned what card should be used as a minimum, as dropping framerate in online gaming is not an enjoyable experience. My guess is you haven't played overwatch on a PC, as you don't seem to grasp how critical it is have a constant 60fps.
[doublepost=1510806838][/doublepost]

You continue to contradict yourself.
The point was frame rate... (60fps) Not 5k resolution.

 

[Regime2008]

Anything below the Gtx 750 Ti, would be dropping below 60fps. While Overwatch does not require the beefiest specs, an integrated video card cannot do justice for this game. If you have to turn the settings to low, and play at a much smaller resolution just to maintain frames, it's not worth it.

Here is a video playing on the minimum specs. Intel Hd 4400
This cannot be considered "playable" when it comes to a online only, competitive game.

Because


You continue to contradict yourself.
The point was frame rate... (60fps) Not 5k resolution.

Contradicted? I DID say "If you have to turn the settings to low, and play at a much smaller resolution just to maintain frames, it's not worth it."

If I said the above quote, and also mentioned how important a constant 60fps is...Do you NOT think I meant the two combined? Native resolution, AND constant 60fps? Especially when my first post in this thread concluded:
"Even if Apple can somehow jump into the gaming market overnight, it would be almost impossible to persuade PC users to spend over 3x the amount of money, for comparable hardware that they already had. And from the look of their future lineup, it doesn't seem like they really want to have performance or even replaceable GPU's."
It should be pretty apparent that if I am going to spend over 2-3 grand on a computer, it should be able to play a 2 year old game at max settings. If someone wanted to play games, do you think they would buy a Mac opposed to a PC? Do you think they would go on a forum and complain about why x,y,z game isn't coming to Mac? I answered your question long ago, yet you have yet to answer ANY of mine.

 

[JordanNZ]

Contradicted? I DID say "If you have to turn the settings to low, and play at a much smaller resolution just to maintain frames, it's not worth it."

If I said the above quote, and also mentioned how important a constant 60fps is...Do you NOT think I meant the two combined? Native resolution, AND constant 60fps?

You didn’t mention native resolution.. so you are talking about 5k?... Then why this quote?

You don't speak for everyone either. No one said anything about 4k 120fps. I only mentioned what card should be used as a minimum, as dropping framerate in online gaming is not an enjoyable experience. My guess is you haven't played overwatch on a PC, as you don't seem to grasp how critical it is have a constant 60fps.
[doublepost=1510806838][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1510950247][/doublepost]

Contradicted? If someone wanted to play games, do you think they would buy a Mac opposed to a PC? Do you think they would go on a forum and complain about why x,y,z game isn't coming to Mac? I answered your question long ago, yet you have yet to answer ANY of mine.

Because I’m not interested in your opinion about who should by macs/gaming PCs/other games, or anything else you’ve brought up. I really don’t care.

One more time.

Over watch will run at a decent frame rate on modern macs. That’s been my point all along.

Would you like me to say it again?

 

[Regime2008]

You didn’t mention native resolution.. so you are talking about 5k?... Then why this quote?

[doublepost=1510950247][/doublepost]

Because I’m not interested in your opinion about who should by macs/gaming PCs/other games, or anything else you’ve brought up. I really don’t care.

One more time.

Over watch will run at a decent frame rate on modern macs. That’s been my point all along.

Would you like me to say it again?

Would you like me to go back and merge my two posts together? Would that make you happy?
Again, my point is and has been:
You pair your hardware accordingly for its purpose. There's no point in getting a monitor with a higher resolution than your GPU can handle. A minimum of 60fps is a must for fluid gameplay in Overwatch. I wouldn't degrade my visual performance (resolution or graphics settings), because I wouldn't throw away my money on a Mac in the first place. I spent less than the latest 27" iMac, and can perform way better for a fraction of the price. This has been my point all along, and don't care about your opinion either .

 

[JordanNZ]

Would you like me to go back and merge my two posts together? Would that make you happy?
Again, my point is and has been:
You pair your hardware accordingly for its purpose. There's no point in getting a monitor with a higher resolution than your GPU can handle. A minimum of 60fps is a must for fluid gameplay in Overwatch. I wouldn't degrade my visual performance (resolution or graphics settings), because I wouldn't throw away my money on a Mac in the first place. I spent less than the latest 27" iMac, and can perform way better for a fraction of the price. This has been my point all along, and don't care about your opinion either .

Modern macs can play overwatch with a decent frame rate (60fps). This isn’t an opinion.

 

[Regime2008]

Modern macs can play overwatch with a decent frame rate (60fps). This isn’t an opinion.

Sure, with a downgrade of quality and resolution, of course the modern ones can . The high end one with the RX 580 can even play it on medium to high settings, with half the native resolution and maintain 60fps, for only $2300!! I never said the modern ones couldn't. But again, different strokes for different folks.
Matching monitor and GPU when it comes to gaming, is a must. Not an opinion.
Constant minimum frame-rate is a requirement for fluid gameplay in overwatch. The game was meant to be played at 60fps. Not an opinion either.

 

[JordanNZ]

Sure, with a downgrade of quality and resolution, of course the modern ones can . The high end one with the RX 580 can even play it on medium to high settings, with half the native resolution and maintain 60fps, for only $2300!! I never said the modern ones couldn't. But again, different strokes for different folks.
Matching monitor and GPU when it comes to gaming, is a must. Not an opinion.
Constant minimum frame-rate is a requirement for fluid gameplay in overwatch. The game was meant to be played at 60fps. Not an opinion either.

Good thing it’s not hard to maintain 60fps then

 

[Regime2008]

Good thing it’s not hard to maintain 60fps then

Well I mean...it really shouldn't be, its a 2 year old optimized game, and far from the most demanding game. There's plenty of PC's from 2010 that can play it at Ultra/Epic with a simple gpu upgrade.

 

[antonis]

Kind reminder: Having a Mac (any mac) with a gpu that would be sufficient for a PC game, doesn't make that said mac automatically capable of running it on macOS. Remember, most games have a significant fps toll when running under macOS. Speaking of blizzard, their games that are released for both platforms, run much better on the windows side compared to macOS side, on the very same machine. So, the minimum requirements for a PC game do not necessarily apply for a Mac as well; or at least it's not a given.

Besides that, we all know that even on PC, the minimum specs are just rubbish most of the times and are there in order to widen the target group as much as possible. Many games are nearly unplayable when used under minimum specs (I'd expect 1st-person shooters to be the most fitting example to this).

So, projecting the minimum specs of a PC game in order to say that it will run equally good or bad to a Mac with the same h/w , leaves a whole lot of other parameters out of the table.

On the bright side, though, if your mac fulfills the requirements for a PC game, nothing stops you from playing this game on windows side. If it plays well on a PC it will on a Mac as well, under windows.

 

[wubsylol]

Perhaps one day when each point release of macOS doesn't break all their games Overwatch for Mac might be on the cards.

 

[Eric5h5]

Kind reminder: Having a Mac (any mac) with a gpu that would be sufficient for a PC game, doesn't make that said mac automatically capable of running it on macOS. Remember, most games have a significant fps toll when running under macOS.

Kind reminder: Metal exists now, and that's what Mac games are generally using from now on instead of OpenGL. While that doesn't necessarily mean that performance is equal (and indeed Blizzard games with Metal renderers still tend to lag behind Windows performance), so far the fps hit is usually much less.

if your mac fulfills the requirements for a PC game, nothing stops you from playing this game on windows side

"Windows side" is not something that just automatically exists. Since I believe everybody is aware of the possibility of buying Windows and using it with Bootcamp by now, and indeed has been for many years, it seems pointless to mention this. We can just assume, for any game, that anyone who is willing to use Bootcamp has already done so. The discussion is about Overwatch on macOS.

--Eric

 

[marksatt]

Bean-counters care about there being enough of an install base that can run the game to the minimal standard so there are enough potential sales, how many can play it with all the bells & whistles isn't terribly important. On that score most Mac models since 2012 with a GPU faster than the Intel HD 4000 are probably sufficient. Now that doesn't mean Blizzard think they will get enough sales from that user base to justify the development of a Mac version, but they haven't made any statements about that, only technical challenges.

I don't know what challenge they are referring to, but they aren't the only ones struggling to ship titles as has been seen with other AAA games. I know from working on UE4 that there are a number of API/shader differences that make life harder and whose workarounds are quite complicated. This can reduce performance vs. Windows so they might have found another gotcha that really hurts their engine.