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I expect Win10/XBox One cross play for Overwatch which would explain a lot. Since I am moving to Xbox for my own AAA gaming this works for me. :D

A gaming capable Mac is midrange performance at best when brand new for 3 grand. I'm not doing that. I'll do Mac for everyday computing and whatever games will run on the Mac I have such as older titles, etc. but for new stuff I'll be going console which provides an experience I'll enjoy for less money spent on hardware.

I have to agree with this except change the XBox part to PS4 in my case :)
Also games like Overwatch etc do not interest me one bit.
 
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I have to agree with this except change the XBox part to PS4 in my case :)
Also games like Overwatch etc do not interest me one bit.

In a perfect world with plenty of time I'd like owning both as PS4 has a lot of great exclusives. I really want to play the Halo series and Gears of War games though. Also my nephews have been after me for ages to get one so we could play together online which would be fun so I chose that.
 
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So its being reported by all the major gaming news sites that Overwatch will come out on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 and cost $60.

They've been calling into Gamestops after one confirmed that there is an Overwatch: Origin Edition listed in their system.

Interesting. People on reddit seem to be divided by the price and waiting to Blizzcon (literally tomorrow) for official news is probably better.

Still no word on Mac.
 
So the lack of Mac support has nothing to do with Microsoft.

It's probably just business. Even if we can say that Apple can't be culpable because they haven't done anything differently: That's the point. Apple has had a decade to figure out gaming on their platform and they haven't. They don't care, and neither should developers.
 
Ive been playing Overwatch everyday. I'm slowly getting better at it but there will always be twitchy kids that will kick my butt. I was playing 1vs1 against an easy AI just to compare classes. I couldnt even kill the AI as the one tank chick with the pink hair. Her shield sucked too.
The dwarf that builds the sentry gun is easy mode, though. I got 'play of the game' and ~50% of the kills two maps in a row and i didnt really do much except maintain and upgrade the gun.
 
Still just super disappointed about this decision. Blizzard is an A1 developer, and having them cut out Mac gaming here is brutal. I get it's just a business decision, but one I'm very unhappy with. I mean, they've been on stage at Apple events in the recent past promoting their games/tech.

What a bust.
 
It's not the first game not to come to Mac and it will not be the last, if you really want to bunny hop around fighting others on your Mac then Bootcamp it, you have the choice and they know that, think they said it to.

As yet that ad means nothing that may of been photoshopped, where did it come from ?
 
It's probably just business. Even if we can say that Apple can't be culpable because they haven't done anything differently: That's the point. Apple has had a decade to figure out gaming on their platform and they haven't. They don't care, and neither should developers.
Let's see: they have introduced Metal for Mac recently, putting emphasis on its use for games. And they have introduced and steadily improved several game related APIs in the last couple of years, including SpriteKit, SceneKit, GameKit, and whatever that controller API was called.

I admit that none of these (except maybe for Metal – but probably not in its current state) are of much help for triple A cross platform games, but that does not look as if they don't care. Whether they are good in caring about it is a different question, though.
 
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Let's see: they have introduced Metal for Mac recently, putting emphasis on its use for games. And they have introduced and steadily improved several game related APIs in the last couple of years, including SpriteKit, SceneKit, GameKit, and whatever that controller API was called.

I admit that none of these (except maybe for Metal – but probably not in its current state) are of much help for triple A cross platform games, but that does not look as if they don't care. Whether they are good in caring about it is a different question, though.

They certainly care, but maybe in a different direction than we do, or we'd like to. Apple seems to promote their mobile gaming and the bridging/porting between their devices including computers. They want to control everything and unify as much as they can within their ecosystem and that seems to be Metal's main mission. This should also not surprise any old apple user. But that falls way far from AAA gaming in which Apple lacks the h/w and the system s/w for it (aka optimized and frequently updated drivers). If they really wanted to catch up with Windows in AAA gaming they'd go towards Vulcan.

After many years, I've recently built a gaming PC that use exclusively for games - I couldn't change Mac for anything else. To my pleasant surprise, every few days I have to download and install a newer version of GPU drivers from nVidia. According to their release notes, most of these driver upgrades are aiming to some newly released AAA title where the new drivers are optimized to squeeze the GPU for it. Now, that's how the AAA gaming support is done and I think we'll all agree that Apple's strategy is nowhere near that.
 
It's not the first game not to come to Mac and it will not be the last, if you really want to bunny hop around fighting others on your Mac then Bootcamp it, you have the choice and they know that, think they said it to.

As yet that ad means nothing that may of been photoshopped, where did it come from ?
Gamestop.

Honestly check the Overwatch subreddit.

Its not confirmed but basically is. People have gone to their local Gamestop and some have successfully been able to preorder Overwatch.

They even have receipts, pictures, etc.
 
It's not the first game not to come to Mac and it will not be the last, if you really want to bunny hop around fighting others on your Mac then Bootcamp it, you have the choice and they know that, think they said it to.

As yet that ad means nothing that may of been photoshopped, where did it come from ?

It is the first Blizzard game though.

Hearthstone - had PC/Mac beta and release
Heroes of the Storm - had PC/Mac beta and release
Overwatch - Blizzard's new IP in many years - PC and consoles, no Mac.
 
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From the Overwatch Q&A

Q: Will there be a Mac version?

A: Currently no, the tech of Macs is too hard to make Overwatch for.

not sure exactly what's meant by that, but there it is.
 
It's pretty damn straight forward to me. Apple's Mac GPUs and 3D APIs are not up to snuff with what is needed to run the game. Instead of trying to make a low-end version of the game to support integrated GPUs Blizzard is going to target a market that can run current generation console games. When the marketshare is already so small (3-4% of Steam users). The company is barely selling hardware that meets the minimum specs. Their 3D API doesn't support the features and functionality you need to properly render the game. It is NOT worth developers to target the platform. My hope is that a defections of such a stalwart supporter of Mac software will get customers to complain to Apple that the status quo of their GPU hardware and 3D API on OSX support is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!

Pick you model and let them know, you want better graphics!

http://www.apple.com/feedback/imac.html
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html
 
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I question the argument about OS X 3D APIs not being good enough for Overwatch. Blizzard are not exactly the guys using cutting edge features. There's still using openGL 2-3 for most (all?) of their games on OS X. Those who know how to port games (read: Feral), have made Shadows of Mordor and Alien: Isolation a possibility on OS X. We also have the Metro redux games. These are at least as demanding as Overwatch.
High-end Macs could certainly run Overwatch on OS X. Mac are not less powerful than PC on average (remember than most PCs are cheap crappy laptops). It's just that the Mac has much a lower install base. Don't look for another reason. Similarly, Blizzard don't do Linux games.
 
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Also Blizzard got a huge sponsorship from Microsoft (using Windows 10 in all their Blizzcon championships).

Ahhh so it's another game project that ended up being scooped up and hijacked by Microsoft, so definitely will be absent on the Mac. But maybe they will eventually released a gimped Mac version some 4 years later. Oh wait…. sounds just like Halo.
 
Ahhh so it's another game project that ended up being scooped up and hijacked by Microsoft, so definitely will be absent on the Mac. But maybe they will eventually released a gimped Mac version some 4 years later. Oh wait…. sounds just like Halo.
Expect that if Microsoft didn't buy Halo, it would have sucked. It used to be a RTS. Microsoft funded Bungie.

Should just grow up and realize someone else buying a company/project besides Apple does not mean its bad.
 
Those who know how to port games (read: Feral), have made Shadows of Mordor and Alien: Isolation a possibility on OS X. We also have the Metro redux games. These are at least as demanding as Overwatch.
At least two of your examples are actually good illustrations how limited OS X's graphics capabilities are: Feral clearly struggled to make Shadow of Mordor run under OS X. For example, they obviously had to work around missing texture compression features, causing the game to balloon from 40 GB under Windows to almost 70 GB under OS X. And they still barely managed to make the game run on at least somewhat powerful older Macs: it's been a long time since I have seen a Feral port run so badly on a machine that meets the given minimum requirements.

And to make the Metro games run under OS X, the developers liberally removed all kind of more advanced graphical features that they couldn't get to work properly on a Mac. The games still look good (and run decently), but when you compare them to the Windows version, you'll notice various effects are missing.

High-end Macs could certainly run Overwatch on OS X.
The question is how high-end these Macs have to be. If you could only run it on for instance the upper range iMacs of the last two years, you'd hardly have a install base big enough to make it worthwhile.
 
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Its not API that is problematic here but the servers and possibility to connect Mac, Windows, and Console servers into one, In my opinion.
 
Its not API that is problematic here but the servers and possibility to connect Mac, Windows, and Console servers into one, In my opinion.
I don't think they will be cross-platform support between PCs and consoles, not only due to balancing reasons, but also because Microsoft would never allow filthy Playstation peasants to play with their Xbox crowd. So I doubt that's actually a factor.
 
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The question is how high-end these Macs have to be. If you could only run it on for instance the upper range iMacs of the last two years, you'd hardly have a install base big enough to make it worthwhile.

I think that is it in a nutshell. The installed base of Macs capable of running it well and the subset of users owning those Macs who would want to play it and buy it are too few to justify the expense of creating and supporting a Mac version of the game.
 
The problem is that Blizzard games historically have been PC targeted and their low-end system requirements have always been incredibly low. However, Overwatch is targeting current generation consoles as their min spec which supports the DirectX 11/12 feature set. Them having to rework how the rendering works to support integrated/low-end PC graphics cards is not acceptable.

There are considerable gaps with the current Metal OS X API as it compares to modern 3D APIs
- Unable to run both compute and 3d rendering on the same metal device at the same time. No support for asynchronous computation on the GPUs.*
- No support for tessellation (a often used feature in modern games).
- No support for GPU created geometry (geometry shaders/tessellation)
- Same or worse performance than OpenGL on the same hardware.

*Edit: Educated myself a little more about these topics, and reworded

I was hopeful that the Metal API would be updated with the iPhone 6S to support tessellation, but it wasn't, even if the hardware could technically support it. This is the current state of OS X as well. The same hardware that supports OpenGL 4.1 (which includes tessellation) doesn't support these features using the Metal API because there is no API to perform this behavior.

Having said that, I don't disagree that the bigger problem is that Apple sticks integrated GPUs in their < $2500 computers, and the only way to get a graphics card is in their $2500+ line of computers. This is a big middle finger to 3D application developers for OS X. However, the APIs desperately need to be at least feature parity to modern consoles to even be considered a target platform for games that target them.[/S][/S]
 
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- Unable to run both compute and 3d rendering on the same metal device at the same time.
Well, that explains why we won't get the Elite Dangerous expansion…

- Worse performance than OpenGL on the same hardware.
I guess you are referring there to the Ars Technica benchmarks? Don't forget that they said themselves their numbers aren't completely to be trusted, since the benchmark suite they used was not yet properly optimised for Metal for Mac. Metal benchmarks for iOS consistently show a clear, albeit small increase in performance.
 
I guess you are referring there to the Ars Technica benchmarks? Don't forget that they said themselves their numbers aren't completely to be trusted, since the benchmark suite they used was not yet properly optimised for Metal for Mac. Metal benchmarks for iOS consistently show a clear, albeit small increase in performance.

Now that mobile CPUs have continued to get faster, the lower overhead of the draw calls isn't really the limiting factor it once was. Now it's more about driver/shader efficiency. Some latest benchmarks on iOS for example have shown that OpenGL is actually producing better frame times than Metal is now that the CPU draw call batching isn't the limiting factor.

77657.png


https://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?be...S&api2=metal&hwtype2=GPU&hwname2=Apple+A9+GPU

Granted this is a single benchmark suite, but it's the only one that is consistently performed on most mobile hardware. 3D Applications on OS X are rarely CPU limited. A mass majority of applications that are being made to support prior generational APIs (prior to DirectX 12 and Vulkan) will not push graphics in this way. Unless there are benchmarks/applications that truly push the draw call overheads there is rarely a situation where Metal is going to drive the performance over previous generation APIs.

When an application is made to push these draw call overhead you get some great performance gains as documented here.
http://flexmonkey.blogspot.com/2015/09/a-first-look-at-metal-performance-on.html
There just aren't a lot of applications that have that extreme level of draw calls because it doesn't have a prayer of running on older hardware at an acceptable frame rate. Only brand new software such as the the Ashes of Singularity benchmark/game will actually push these new API to where their lower overhead actually significantly benefits the framerate.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-ashes-of-the-singularity-dx12-benchmark-tested

Until these types of applications are the norm, the Metal API isn't going to benefit that much on OS X. It is nice that they are future-proofing for when that day arrives, but that's a couple years from now before applications are designed for these low-overhead APIs, at least for Windows/OS X. Metal is now available on a good chunk of iOS devices and for iOS-only releases, this might be a better test bed for applications to utilize the new low-overhead APIs into their visuals/design.

When Metal was first announced for OS X, there was hope had by myself that Apple's sub-par OpenGL drivers could be eliminated and a more efficient Metal driver set could be used. However, early reports are showing that Metal drivers are not more efficient, and in some cases worse than OpenGL rendering the same scene. If that scene was redone to push the driver overhead like the samples done above, then you would get performance improvements that Apple touted.

Anyways, my point is that traditional draw-call conscious application rendering is not going to benefit when the CPU is not the limiting factor. This is currently is the case in a vast majority of cases for OS X applications in the next couple years.
 
The thing is, when engines are ported to another API, they may performed less well initially. This is the cost of porting. I suppose that engines coded for Metal from the start would perform better. OpenGL cannot do efficient multithreading for instance. Metal can. A 3D engine has to be rewritten to take advantage of that. There's a lot of optimisation to be done.
 
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