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Nothing OWC sells is reasonably priced.

I disagree.

I have bought memory, HDD's from them, and their prices were in line with other vendors at the time. More recently, I bought the Accelsior S card, and it was the cheapest of its kind that I could find.

And finally, I bought a mouse about three years ago which wasn't as described on their site (5-buttons). Return shipping on their dime and money back, no problem.
 
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What stupid myth? Ask the users queuing at the genius bar, ...
Things can always fail earlier, bad monday device, with too much dust in the fab, or some earth vibration, optical out of focus, ...

And there are power users, using Xcode and VMs on the go to get work done.
I can guarantee you that none of the users at the genious bar, or 99.9999% of those power users, has ever come close to reaching the full number of read/write cycles in the Macs. All the other stuff you mention has nothing to do with read/write cycles.

So if the SSD is worn out you want to throw the whole logic board away, right? Awesome.
No need to be an ass and draw out conclusions based on pure speculation from your part.
 
I can guarantee you that none of the users at the genious bar, or 99.9999% of those power users, has ever come close to reaching the full number of read/write cycles in the Macs. All the other stuff you mention has nothing to do with read/write cycles.

No need to be an ass and draw out conclusions based on pure speculation from your part.

I thought I made a point when I pointed out flash can fail much earlier than the specified write cycles. There never was a Nvidia or AMD GPU recall due to manufacturing defects? Never a logic board replacement program for loosening solder? There never was an retina display image retention issue?

So beside that for some normal Joe users this will fail during regular use after the warranty period, additionally comes that Mac OS X has an increasing tendency to dump tons of random noise into the systelogs, and re-download emails and iTunes content, and cache video streams. This can quickly accumulate extraordinary over the years, too.

Thank you for calling me an ass. So what is your plan with such an rMB when the flash failed a month or year after Apple Care?
 
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It would be a lot easier and cheaper if Apple made these MacBooks a bit thicker and added a hard drive bay. Then you could just have a 512 gigabyte Solid State Drive for the OS, applications and maybe some other stuff, and a 2 terabyte hard drive for media.
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I'm an Aperture user that benefits from large capacity drives for media creation. I guess I'm just one of those customers Apple has no need for anymore.

Storage is the primary reason I'm stuck on a 2012 15" MBP with dual drive 256GB SSD/2TB HDD. I wish I had a lighter machine with retina screen but I can't give up my internal storage solution so I'm riding this out until it dies and then I'll have to figure out what to do later. I really hope a solution comes along but I don't think there's anything in the pipeline for dinosaurs like me.
They actually still make the 2012 13” MacBook Pro. Admittedly, it doesn’t have a retina display and it’s not as light as a retina MacBook Pro, but it’s lighter than a 15” and it has the two drive bays that you need. I’m not that old, but I’m also interested in having as much onboard storage as possible. Retina MacBook Pros are nice, but I prefer to have extra storage, though I don’t need it for work, it’s just for my personal media collection. Hard drives still beat Solid State Drives in price-per-gigabyte. Solid State Drives are great, but they’re still too expensive for storing TV shows and movies.
 
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Personally, when I purchased my 2013 MBA 13", I did so with the intention of purchasing an upgrade drive. Remember a story from Anandtech saying they would be out shortly... its been awhile now.

The laptop has done its job. Since the El Capitan upgrade, getting issues with keeping my jetdrive inserted into the SD slot. 128 gb drive is not sufficient for me.

Now at a cross roads, part of me would love to upgrade to a mbp 13 or 15" with more ram and a faster cpu. More economical to upgrade HD and wait/save for a laptop I do want.

Speed I imagine will be a little bit of an issue. Drive failure is a huge issue though (from what I've read on prior posts).
 
Could you link me where I can buy a PCIe SSD 480 Gb for $129 ? :rolleyes:
Just so you know, the Retina MacBook Pros use NVMe Solid State Drives. Granted, NVMe is PCIe, but it uses four lanes instead of sixteen.
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ieek, did not realize that, will keep that in mind because that makes it an absolute nogo for me.
What is Apple thinking? Planned obsolescence at it's best? In 2-5 years when all erase-rewrite cycles of the flash are used up you throw the logic board away? :-/!
Actually, the Solid State Drive is the only part that can be replaced independently of the logic board. The only catch is that it uses a proprietary interface, which makes it even more expensive than regular NVMe.
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Personally, when I purchased my 2013 MBA 13", I did so with the intention of purchasing an upgrade drive. Remember a story from Anandtech saying they would be out shortly... its been awhile now.

The laptop has done its job. Since the El Capitan upgrade, getting issues with keeping my jetdrive inserted into the SD slot. 128 gb drive is not sufficient for me.

Now at a cross roads, part of me would love to upgrade to a mbp 13 or 15" with more ram and a faster cpu. More economical to upgrade HD and wait/save for a laptop I do want.

Speed I imagine will be a little bit of an issue. Drive failure is a huge issue though (from what I've read on prior posts).
Maybe you should just go with the 2012 13” MacBook Pro. Apple still makes it. You could get an Solid State Drive, a hard drive and a data doubler to accommodate your storage needs. That’s where the older MacBooks really shine; upgradeability, particularly in the area of storage.
 
This is the only option right now. Some people find system pulls on eBay, but I highly doubt you'll find a pulled 1TB drive.

Hopefully this is just the beginning, and we'll see some solutions from Crucial and Transcend in the future.
There are plenty of 1 TB original Apple SSDs for your machine on eBay.
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The Mercury is a standard 2.5" drive that can be used with Mac, Windows, Ubuntu, etc, so yes, Trim support is OS Dependent.
These drives aren't being used with anything but a MacBook and OSx so they say no (native) Trim support which is true.
Did you want them to say Trim support, yes, but only after a hack?
I would not consider the Trimforce enable command, being an OS X El Capitan feature, a hack.
 
It's a tough crowd here and none the less always appreciate the feedback and discussion. A few things -

TRIM will be history in a few years. It's always been a crutch and in the simplest terms it's a means for the controller to hand off work load to the computer's processor. In the early days of SSD, the drive controllers simply did not have the horsepower to do the block management necessary for the I/O capability available. That changed in 2010 with enterprise core designed controllers which targeted RAID setups where TRIM interface wasn't even a possibility - but was ideal for the Mac platform where there initially was no TRIM support. Our drives do NOT slow down and give consistent performance when empty or 99.9% full (note that if any boot drive is that full there isn't the free space the OS needs and slow down from that has nothing do do with the drive regardless of what drive type/model). Further - many drives that do depend on TRIM do slow down and start showing less consistent mixed I/O performance in real world use even as they only get past 75-85% capacity - this doesn't happen with our drives as noted. We had no luxury of TRIM when we came into this space and have focused on never depending on TRIM. It is an engineering choice and not depending on TRIM provides real benefit short term and long.

The quality and components of the drives has always been consistently maintained with Tier 1. While I can name more than a couple companies, at least one effectively defunct, that played a different game - we have always listed out our build details and we just don't do the start at X and then reduce to Y later. Never. On our external drive solutions we list the drives that are inside. We list the power supply and chipset specs - we provide more transparency that most any manufacturer for all the solutions we offer. And it's been like that here from the get go.

Everyone has different experiences and with respect to where SSDs were 6 years ago. Where Apple was with proper 6Gb/s SATA support in their laptops 4-5 years ago - I can't say there were not bumps in the road. Until various 'quiet' Apple EFI updates fixed the SATA 6G issues in the 2011 MacBook Pro models (updates of impact that occurred over about a 1.5yr period) and OS X stabilized on how Wake/Sleep timing and commands were issued for SSD/Flash based drives (about 2-3 years ago) - there was a lot more going on that added challenges that are thankfully now in the past. That being said - these challenges were universal and I have used our SSDs in my own systems from day#1 and still use those same SSDs in Macs I run at home and absolutely stand by them in terms of their quality and industry position. We are the only ones with a true focus and dedication to building drives that really are built for Mac first and provide a line up with support of Mac models no one else provides both with these latest as well as IDE/ATA models for Macs most may not even care about - but we do and we have customers that do which is the why in everything we do.

These latest drives are up to 1.5X faster in raw throughput speeds vs. original models - but are slower than the latest 4 lane modules shipping in more recent models in that throughput. However, and we will be publishing a bunch of real world benchmarks that include the array of factory drives, due to our dual processor design and focus on the real world - the Aura SSDs actually perform exceptionally well in real world mixed load and even where raw numbers (which are great for file copies and basic ingest performance) would imply a real difference - these drives shine and perform very respectively in terms of where the real work is done.

FileVault is supported on these drives. A spec now obsolete from a time over 3 years ago came into the original listing we posted - that is now removed/updated. There was a time when there were issue FileVault and most SSDs, today we do not have that limitation between current OS and drive controller firmwares.

Quick bit - support of the iMac and Mac mini 2013+ models are just a couple weeks away. Technically what we are shipping now are 100% compatible with those models. But each of these models have their own special installation requirements which we will have fully presented and made understandable prior to offering. Simple stuff even like where the heat transfer pad needs to be to the Mac mini requiring a special cable for adding a flash blade to a unit without one installed at the factory. It's the details and taking the time to get the details nailed is important.

One last comment concerning controller/processors. For a lot of different reasons Sandforce has some negative associations their processors really doesn't deserve. That said- and larger related to current capacity capabilities and performance attributes in capacity - we do use the Silicon Motion processor for all of our new Aura SSD PCIe flash storage models as well as in all our 1TB and higher capacity 2.5" offerings. The highly regarded Silicon Motion processor/controllers have had the benefit of coming into a space after standards and implementations had become stable and more fixed vs. dealing with the shifting sands that prior were the norm (why critical firmware updates for SSDs until a couple years ago used to be somewhat frequent occurrence). Timing is everything. That said we do understand the importance of perception and definitely need to work to align some perceptions in general with the actual realities.

Thank you for the feed - all the good, bad, and ugly. We are customer focused, here for you and absolutely because of you. Happy to reply to messages here (as best as can) or email owc@macsales.com. Thanks!

- OWC Larry
Founder & CEO
 
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Thanks for clarifications. I'm quite happy about your products. While they aren't as fast as Apple's SSDs, they are an option and a possible replacement for defective units when the warranty expires.
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Just so you know, the Retina MacBook Pros use NVMe Solid State Drives. Granted, NVMe is PCIe, but it uses four lanes instead of sixteen.
I know that, but my point is: people complain about OWC prices, and someone said you can find a 480 Gb SSD for 129$.
I'm still waiting to receive the link to an online store selling PCIe (or NVMe, whatever ...) SSDs for $129....
 
TRIM will be history in a few years. It's always been a crutch and in the simplest terms it's a means for the controller to hand off work load to the computer's processor. In the early days of SSD, the drive controllers simply did not have the horsepower to do the block management necessary for the I/O capability available.
I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong and misleading. TRIM is a way for the host computer to provide the SSD controller with information that the controller itself has no way of knowing: which pages are no longer used by the file system and can be safely ignored in garbage collection. It is true that controllers today use more sophisticated garbage collection algorithms and TRIM is not an absolute necessity (it never has been). But TRIM is *always* an improvement. TRIM is not a significant "work load" for the computer. And it's not going away anytime soon.

Here's an easy to read article explaining this in more detail:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...garbage-collection-so-i-dont-need-trim-right/

Anyway, it seems you are confirming that your SSD does not support TRIM, is that correct?
 
You must be content to live under a totalitarian regime.

I can, and do, self-support. I know the risks, and I pay the penalty when I screw up. What is not "cool" or right is to tell people false information. Yes, you can do what you want when your Mac is out of warranty, but if you screw it up good don't count on the good guys bailing you out. It's just that simple. That's called the truth, and it's what anyone who actually knows a thing or three about Macs should be telling you.
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Why oh why couldn't Apple use a standard format for once. :( Then we could simply plop in a nice Samsung 950 Pro ...

Because Apple would then accrue liability. It's just that simple. To avoid that liability Apple would have to test with EVERY SSD available out there. You think Apple updates are slow now? Just wait until they have to complete quality control on EVERY SSD OUT THERE. Seriously, if you want that hot, steaming mess why not just go buy a PC and live the dream?
 
Because Apple would then accrue liability. It's just that simple. To avoid that liability Apple would have to test with EVERY SSD available out there
How about not treating users like Kindergarten children that can't take responsibility for their actions? If I make unsupported modifications to my computer, I'm fully aware that the consequences are my own responsibility. And legally Apple is already covered because modifications void the warranty anyway. So I really don't see what the problem is.
Seriously, if you want that hot, steaming mess why not just go buy a PC and live the dream?
Because a PC doesn't run OS X.
 
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I can, and do, self-support. I know the risks, and I pay the penalty when I screw up. What is not "cool" or right is to tell people false information. Yes, you can do what you want when your Mac is out of warranty, but if you screw it up good don't count on the good guys bailing you out. It's just that simple. That's called the truth, and it's what anyone who actually knows a thing or three about Macs should be telling you.

I noticed how you subtlety hinted that I don't have the technological experience to service my own computers. Fact is, I have been servicing laptops for years, replacing screens, keyboards, logic boards, etc.

I obviously don't expect Apple to be responsible if I improperly serviced the computer, leading to a issue.

That said, if, for example, I replaced the SSD and 8 months down the road, my logic board failed, how am I in any way responsible for the fault?
 
This is not as cut and dry as you believe and I stand by what I said with respect to TRIM. As for TRIM never having been a necessity - it is a necessity with many SSD designs including many today. SSDs that expect TRIM do suffer performance hinderance as well as higher write amplification where TRIM is not engaged. While it's typically not to this extreme with any modern SSD today, you go back a few years and in the absence of TRIM you could find yourself needing to nuke and pave drives that over months or years reached the point of being slower than a hard drive.

To say TRIM is always an improvement is simply not true. It is actually pretty balanced in terms of the use or non-use of TRIM - except with Mac OS systems where you have to utilize a hack to enable TRIM. While this may seem like no big deal to more technically proficient folks that contribute here, and it's not with absolute zero risk, it is something that the majority of more typical users out there don't want to have to have the first thought about and the majority never enable TRIM and have no idea what it would even mean.

The ultimate solution would be a better TRIM support from Apple with manufacturer submission. That being said - Apple calls SSD and Flash drives in all their systems 'Flash Storage' rather than 'Flash Storage Drive' for a reason - it implies it's a fixed and non upgradeable component as opposed to something modular. While we know this will be changing, currently the only Mac without drive upgradeability is the MacBook 12" (2015 introduced) with it's direct on board flash placement.

We at OWC have been heavily involved with SSD engineering for over seven years now and have been manufacturing these drives for over six. To say we have a deep understanding of the technology and interfaces involved would be an understatement. There is a lot more to a non TRIM implementation than just garbage collection.

Additional information on this subject can be found in our blog here and also a prior post linked from this blog here:
http://blog.macsales.com/31602-owc-ssds-built-to-perform-with-or-without-trimforce-command

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong and misleading. TRIM is a way for the host computer to provide the SSD controller with information that the controller itself has no way of knowing: which pages are no longer used by the file system and can be safely ignored in garbage collection. It is true that controllers today use more sophisticated garbage collection algorithms and TRIM is not an absolute necessity (it never has been). But TRIM is *always* an improvement. TRIM is not a significant "work load" for the computer. And it's not going away anytime soon.

Here's an easy to read article explaining this in more detail:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...garbage-collection-so-i-dont-need-trim-right/

Anyway, it seems you are confirming that your SSD does not support TRIM, is that correct?
 
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You could probably sell your Apple 512gb drive on ebay for around $400, making a 1tb drive even cheaper than a normal SSD. It would be nice if they had a trade-in program though, Apple drives are worth a lot of money.
Do these installations void your warranty? I have one of these http://tardisk.com and doesn't require tools, and doesn't void warranty . I was thinking to add more space with OWC though.
no, there is no tamper protection so theres no way Apple will know, you would probably want to switch it back to the original SSD if sending it in for Warranty though. Personally I would never send in a computer with personal data and would remove the drive.
 
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Do these installations void your warranty? I have one of these http://tardisk.com and doesn't require tools, and doesn't void warranty . I was thinking to add more space with OWC though.
It does not providing no damage was caused during installation.

"Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. Put simply, the act states that a company can’t require you to upgrade with only its own branded parts to retain the warranty. This important act protects your rights as a consumer and allows you to install OWC upgrades with peace of mind confidence."
 
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To say TRIM is always an improvement is simply not true. It is actually pretty balanced in terms of the use or non-use of TRIM
Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I was involved in designing garbage collection algorithms for storage systems. Even the best algorithms can still take advantage of the additional information provided by TRIM. At best, garbage collection can approximate performance and write amplification in certain limited usage scenarios where files are rarely deleted, but there is no scenario where it is harmful in any way. There is a reason why almost all SSDs and operating systems support it.
Additional information on this subject can be found in our blog here and also a prior post linked from this blog here:
http://blog.macsales.com/31602-owc-ssds-built-to-perform-with-or-without-trimforce-command
This page says that TRIM can be enabled on your older SSDs using the trimforce command. Is that still the case with the Aura, or does it simply not support TRIM at all?
 
Thanks for clarifications. I'm quite happy about your products. While they aren't as fast as Apple's SSDs, they are an option and a possible replacement for defective units when the warranty expires.
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I know that, but my point is: people complain about OWC prices, and someone said you can find a 480 Gb SSD for 129$.
I'm still waiting to receive the link to an online store selling PCIe (or NVMe, whatever ...) SSDs for $129....
Okay. I’ve never seen an NVMe Solid State Drive priced that low, but I got my 480 gigabyte (SATA) Solid State Drive from Best Buy for $120.
 
No, mid-2012 rMBP is Apple-profile SSD, not 2.5".

Ah, OK. I was looking at the non-retina. I did not remember there were 2 concurrent product lines. I was surprised, because it seemed you were not talking about the 2.5" indeed.
 
Do these installations void your warranty? I have one of these http://tardisk.com and doesn't require tools, and doesn't void warranty . I was thinking to add more space with OWC though.
It has completely different performance....

Okay. I’ve never seen an NVMe Solid State Drive priced that low, but I got my 480 gigabyte (SATA) Solid State Drive from Best Buy for $120.
Your SATA drive is a completely different hardware so prices can't be compared.
I'm not saying OWC's SSD is cheap, but you can't use a SATA drive to make a comparison.
 
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It's a tough crowd here and none the less always appreciate the feedback and discussion. A few things -

........................................

That said we do understand the importance of perception and definitely need to work to align some perceptions in general with the actual realities.

Thank you for the feed - all the good, bad, and ugly. We are customer focused, here for you and absolutely because of you. Happy to reply to messages here (as best as can) or email owc@macsales.com. Thanks!

- OWC Larry
Founder & CEO

Thanks for the explanation, Larry.

FWIW, OWC has always done me right, and your site is a great resource for Mac-related stuff.
 
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