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Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I was involved in designing garbage collection algorithms for storage systems.

**** - Very cool btw.

Even the best algorithms can still take advantage of the additional information provided by TRIM. At best, garbage collection can approximate performance and write amplification in certain limited usage scenarios where files are rarely deleted, but there is no scenario where it is harmful in any way. There is a reason why almost all SSDs and operating systems support it.
This page says that TRIM can be enabled on your older SSDs using the trimforce command. Is that still the case with the Aura, or does it simply not support TRIM at all?

For most of our drives, you can enable TRIM - although we have specifically focused on implementation that truly negates the need for TRIM. It is an aspect of why we have the over provisioning we do. As for harmful - properly implemented, I don't disagree that TRIM isn't harmful - but a couple makers out there have known faulty TRIM implementations that absolutely can cause issue. Further - a benefit of not having TRIM enabled is improved data recoverability. Just like you can recover an accidentally erased file from a hard drive, you can do so from a non-TRIM enabled SSD as well. But on SSDs with TRIM enabled - once the file is erased, there is no getting it back. You also have slightly faster boot ups without TRIM as well. In any event - we didn't have the luxury of any TRIM option in 2010 and have focused entirely on avoiding a dependence on it due to a customer base that largely isn't comfortable with what are effectively hacks and often don't follow instruction guides for extra steps if something is working without those steps.

To answer the question on the current gen Aura SSD PCIe drives - not for any issue at the controller/processor level, but due to the necessary means of implementation of this dual-controller solution - native trim is not able to engage with this drive. Running TrimForce doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't do anything with our current PCIe models. And again - by design, the need for TRIM is negated in these implementations.
 
It does not providing no damage was caused during installation.

"Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. Put simply, the act states that a company can’t require you to upgrade with only its own branded parts to retain the warranty. This important act protects your rights as a consumer and allows you to install OWC upgrades with peace of mind confidence."

This is 100% wrong.

Any decent lawyer will be able to tell you the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 has important protections for not only consumers, but manufacturers as well. If a manufacturer can demonstrate third-party parts will make the product malfunction or not work to specifications, they can be exempted from the M-MWA. What do you think the odds are Apple will be able to demonstrate a third-party part takes the computer out of spec? I will go with 100% on that one.

I also add the warranty you agreed to with Apple has the following EXEMPTION in the warranty :

(g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;

So no matter how carefully you perform the work, you are STILL VOIDING THE WARRANTY. As I said before, if you are willing to risk never getting service from an AASP or Apple themselves then go for it. If you do not want to take that risk, then don't. Just don't complain later when the consequences of your actions come back to bite you.
[doublepost=1457554958][/doublepost]
That said, if, for example, I replaced the SSD and 8 months down the road, my logic board failed, how am I in any way responsible for the fault?

See your Apple warranty agreement, part g, under "This Warranty does not apply:" :

(g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple;

That's how.

Modify it in any way, you instantly void your warranty. Period. End of story. Full stop. Apple is under precisely ZERO obligation to work on out of warranty product. So are Apple AASPs. If they choose to do so, you won the lottery. All I have ever said is don't be surprised if you cannot find any legitimate source to work on it. If you are of the devil-may-care, laugh in the face of danger type, then go for it.

If you are not, then don't.

It really is just that simple. What you really shouldn't do is mislead people that there are no consequences to the actions they take. That is especially true if you don't take the time to read the warranty documentation.
 
To answer the question on the current gen Aura SSD PCIe drives - not for any issue at the controller/processor level, but due to the necessary means of implementation of this dual-controller solution - native trim is not able to engage with this drive. Running TrimForce doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't do anything with our current PCIe models.
Thanks for clarifying, Larry.
 
Because Apple would then accrue liability. It's just that simple. To avoid that liability Apple would have to test with EVERY SSD available out there. You think Apple updates are slow now? Just wait until they have to complete quality control on EVERY SSD OUT THERE. Seriously, if you want that hot, steaming mess why not just go buy a PC and live the dream?

so where were the certifications for EVERY SINGLE DRIVE OUT THERE when Apple products still supported common form factors?

the amount of BS in this thread is absurd even for Macrumors.
 
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They were always an artist tool that the windows world could never compete with, though those times have changed. I think they gave up on their base in favor of more money and while I can't blame them, I think having over $100,000,000,000+ in cash or cash equivalents is probably enough to make some machines that won't sell a ton, but will continue to support their artist base that kept them alive through the 80's and 90's.
Yeah. I don't blame them either so I don't mean to whine (too much). But for those of us in the 90's who felt like we were helping out David in his battle with Goliath then it does sting to see how quickly Apple abandoned the artists once they became king. (And to pour salt on the wound, they market the Pencil "for the Creatives" as if Apple's abandonment of creatives hasn't disrupted our near-perfect Apple-centric workflows).


I appreciate the thin, lightweight great looking retina macbook pros, but without any real user upgrades available, I don't see myself upgrading to them anytime soon, not for $3000+ for a top of the line macbook pro I can't ever upgrade in any way.
I think the original reasons for killing off the true "Pro" machines was because Apple was trying to streamline their product offerings. But with Apple's product library getting out of control again then it wouldn't hurt to reintroduce a Pro machine that actually had pro features, user upgradability and standard SSD.
 
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so where were the certifications for EVERY SINGLE DRIVE OUT THERE when Apple products still supported common form factors?

I am taking it you don't remember going four freakin' years between Mac OS updates because of that nonsense, do you? Dear God, don't tell me you want to return to that or, heaven forbid, the days of Extension Manager?
 
That's already been available for a while. Check OWC's website.
There is nothing there that works on the 2014-2015 iMacs. Could you link to whatever you're talking about?
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It's a tough crowd here and none the less always appreciate the feedback and discussion. A few things -

TRIM will be history in a few years. It's always been a crutch and in the simplest terms it's a means for the controller to hand off work load to the computer's processor. In the early days of SSD, the drive controllers simply did not have the horsepower to do the block management necessary for the I/O capability available. That changed in 2010 with enterprise core designed controllers which targeted RAID setups where TRIM interface wasn't even a possibility - but was ideal for the Mac platform where there initially was no TRIM support. Our drives do NOT slow down and give consistent performance when empty or 99.9% full (note that if any boot drive is that full there isn't the free space the OS needs and slow down from that has nothing do do with the drive regardless of what drive type/model). Further - many drives that do depend on TRIM do slow down and start showing less consistent mixed I/O performance in real world use even as they only get past 75-85% capacity - this doesn't happen with our drives as noted. We had no luxury of TRIM when we came into this space and have focused on never depending on TRIM. It is an engineering choice and not depending on TRIM provides real benefit short term and long.

The quality and components of the drives has always been consistently maintained with Tier 1. While I can name more than a couple companies, at least one effectively defunct, that played a different game - we have always listed out our build details and we just don't do the start at X and then reduce to Y later. Never. On our external drive solutions we list the drives that are inside. We list the power supply and chipset specs - we provide more transparency that most any manufacturer for all the solutions we offer. And it's been like that here from the get go.

Everyone has different experiences and with respect to where SSDs were 6 years ago. Where Apple was with proper 6Gb/s SATA support in their laptops 4-5 years ago - I can't say there were not bumps in the road. Until various 'quiet' Apple EFI updates fixed the SATA 6G issues in the 2011 MacBook Pro models (updates of impact that occurred over about a 1.5yr period) and OS X stabilized on how Wake/Sleep timing and commands were issued for SSD/Flash based drives (about 2-3 years ago) - there was a lot more going on that added challenges that are thankfully now in the past. That being said - these challenges were universal and I have used our SSDs in my own systems from day#1 and still use those same SSDs in Macs I run at home and absolutely stand by them in terms of their quality and industry position. We are the only ones with a true focus and dedication to building drives that really are built for Mac first and provide a line up with support of Mac models no one else provides both with these latest as well as IDE/ATA models for Macs most may not even care about - but we do and we have customers that do which is the why in everything we do.

These latest drives are up to 1.5X faster in raw throughput speeds vs. original models - but are slower than the latest 4 lane modules shipping in more recent models in that throughput. However, and we will be publishing a bunch of real world benchmarks that include the array of factory drives, due to our dual processor design and focus on the real world - the Aura SSDs actually perform exceptionally well in real world mixed load and even where raw numbers (which are great for file copies and basic ingest performance) would imply a real difference - these drives shine and perform very respectively in terms of where the real work is done.

FileVault is supported on these drives. A spec now obsolete from a time over 3 years ago came into the original listing we posted - that is now removed/updated. There was a time when there were issue FileVault and most SSDs, today we do not have that limitation between current OS and drive controller firmwares.

Quick bit - support of the iMac and Mac mini 2013+ models are just a couple weeks away. Technically what we are shipping now are 100% compatible with those models. But each of these models have their own special installation requirements which we will have fully presented and made understandable prior to offering. Simple stuff even like where the heat transfer pad needs to be to the Mac mini requiring a special cable for adding a flash blade to a unit without one installed at the factory. It's the details and taking the time to get the details nailed is important.

One last comment concerning controller/processors. For a lot of different reasons Sandforce has some negative associations their processors really doesn't deserve. That said- and larger related to current capacity capabilities and performance attributes in capacity - we do use the Silicon Motion processor for all of our new Aura SSD PCIe flash storage models as well as in all our 1TB and higher capacity 2.5" offerings. The highly regarded Silicon Motion processor/controllers have had the benefit of coming into a space after standards and implementations had become stable and more fixed vs. dealing with the shifting sands that prior were the norm (why critical firmware updates for SSDs until a couple years ago used to be somewhat frequent occurrence). Timing is everything. That said we do understand the importance of perception and definitely need to work to align some perceptions in general with the actual realities.

Thank you for the feed - all the good, bad, and ugly. We are customer focused, here for you and absolutely because of you. Happy to reply to messages here (as best as can) or email owc@macsales.com. Thanks!

- OWC Larry
Founder & CEO
Fantastic! I eagerly await your iMac compatible model!!!
 
There is nothing there that works on the 2014-2015 iMacs. Could you link to whatever you're talking about?......
Fair enough. OWC SSDs are available from as far back as the G5 models up to the 2013 iMacs. Since you didn't specifically state you were looking for 2014-2015 iMacs, I had no way of knowing that. :)

OWC Larry.... when can we expect those?
 
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This is 100% wrong.

Any decent lawyer will be able to tell you the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 has important protections for not only consumers, but manufacturers as well. If a manufacturer can demonstrate third-party parts will make the product malfunction or not work to specifications, they can be exempted from the M-MWA. What do you think the odds are Apple will be able to demonstrate a third-party part takes the computer out of spec? I will go with 100% on that one.

I also add the warranty you agreed to with Apple has the following EXEMPTION in the warranty :



So no matter how carefully you perform the work, you are STILL VOIDING THE WARRANTY. As I said before, if you are willing to risk never getting service from an AASP or Apple themselves then go for it. If you do not want to take that risk, then don't. Just don't complain later when the consequences of your actions come back to bite you.
[doublepost=1457554958][/doublepost]

See your Apple warranty agreement, part g, under "This Warranty does not apply:" :



That's how.

Modify it in any way, you instantly void your warranty. Period. End of story. Full stop. Apple is under precisely ZERO obligation to work on out of warranty product. So are Apple AASPs. If they choose to do so, you won the lottery. All I have ever said is don't be surprised if you cannot find any legitimate source to work on it. If you are of the devil-may-care, laugh in the face of danger type, then go for it.

If you are not, then don't.

It really is just that simple. What you really shouldn't do is mislead people that there are no consequences to the actions they take. That is especially true if you don't take the time to read the warranty documentation.

Do you even listen to yourself?

Apple has to be able to demonstrate that the malfunction is caused by incorrect installation of the third party parts or the third party parts malfunctions.

It's the same reason that Ford cannot deny warranty for a failed transmission if I changed the engine oil unless it can be demonstrated that somehow my changing the engine oil caused the transmission to failed.
 
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Fair enough. OWC SSDs are available from as far back as the G5 models up to the 2013 iMacs. Since you didn't specifically state you were looking for 2014-2015 iMacs, I had no way of knowing that. :)

OWC Larry.... when can we expect those?
He already said "within weeks" in his post.
 
What stupid myth? Ask the users queuing at the genius bar, ...
Things can always fail earlier, bad monday device, with too much dust in the fab, or some earth vibration, optical out of focus, ...

And there are power users, using Xcode and VMs on the go to get work done.

So if the SSD is worn out you want to throw the whole logic board away, right? Awesome.
I would suggest some reading about SSD longevity. Even cheap SSDs should write 100TBs and good ones can go over 1PB. Yes controllers could possibly fail but it's quite rare in good drives. But if you wear out even a 128GB SSD you are doing something crazy. If you are worried about it though, buy the largest one you can because they will last longer.
 
I like the fact there is now an option for aftermarket upgrade. I only hoped for slightly better write speed than 425MB/s

Can't wait for first reviews (performance/power consumption).
 
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I am taking it you don't remember going four freakin' years between Mac OS updates because of that nonsense, do you? Dear God, don't tell me you want to return to that or, heaven forbid, the days of Extension Manager?

yeah, sorry, been using macs since 1988, unless you're talking back in the pre-OSX days, the longest gap in OS updates was between Tiger and Leopard and that was just a touch over two years. Also, i dont recall any OSX updates being held up due to hardware support issues. care to elaborate?

oh wait, you mentioned extension manager. so yeah, OS9. i fail to see how computer technology that is over 15 years old and long since deprecated has any relevance to modern technology or Apple's business practices today. Also, that was back in the days when Apple was only beginning to embrace standards like ATA drives and PC100 RAM, so yeah, there was a lot more engineering involved. You're talking about the days when Apple hardware still required non-standard RAM... SCSI hard drives... DB15 monitor connectors! Apple seems to have forgotten all this, since they now seem to be going back to that backward thinking that marginalized them to begin with.

the entire purpose of them going to OSX to begin with was to get away from having to deal with that stuff thanks to the fact it was all based off open standards. again, another lesson they seem to have forgotten
 
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Turns out that this is actually a RAID 0 drive with two Silicon Motion SM2256 SATA 6Gbps controllers. I was mistaken for assuming it to be native PCIe with SM2260, apologies for that.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10128...ade-for-macbook-pro-and-macbook-air-pcie-ssds

The RAID 0 factor makes this much less appealing. The chance of failure is practically double and SSDs with internal RAID 0 have traditionally had pretty poor random performance. The SM2256 also means that the drive is likely using TLC NAND, and drives with such configuration haven't performed very well. I would say it's better to wait for actual native PCIe drives than buy this.
 
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I would suggest some reading about SSD longevity. Even cheap SSDs should write 100TBs and good ones can go over 1PB. Yes controllers could possibly fail but it's quite rare in good drives. But if you wear out even a 128GB SSD you are doing something crazy. If you are worried about it though, buy the largest one you can because they will last longer.

You write yourself: "should", "could", ...

And what will most likely go bad is not the controller but the flash cell, ...

I'm not only an early adapter of flash, we run flash cache on all our last years Linux VM servers:
https://www.t2-project.org/zine/6/

I even have a PATA-SATA bridged SSD in my G4 Cube, ...

Guess what? I already have a stack of bad SSDs next to the stack of bad HDs, ...
 
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This is 100% wrong.

Any decent lawyer will be able to tell you the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 has important protections for not only consumers, but manufacturers as well. If a manufacturer can demonstrate third-party parts will make the product malfunction or not work to specifications, they can be exempted from the M-MWA. What do you think the odds are Apple will be able to demonstrate a third-party part takes the computer out of spec? I will go with 100% on that one.

I also add the warranty you agreed to with Apple has the following EXEMPTION in the warranty :



So no matter how carefully you perform the work, you are STILL VOIDING THE WARRANTY. As I said before, if you are willing to risk never getting service from an AASP or Apple themselves then go for it. If you do not want to take that risk, then don't. Just don't complain later when the consequences of your actions come back to bite you.
[doublepost=1457554958][/doublepost]

See your Apple warranty agreement, part g, under "This Warranty does not apply:" :



That's how.

Modify it in any way, you instantly void your warranty. Period. End of story. Full stop. Apple is under precisely ZERO obligation to work on out of warranty product. So are Apple AASPs. If they choose to do so, you won the lottery. All I have ever said is don't be surprised if you cannot find any legitimate source to work on it. If you are of the devil-may-care, laugh in the face of danger type, then go for it.

If you are not, then don't.

It really is just that simple. What you really shouldn't do is mislead people that there are no consequences to the actions they take. That is especially true if you don't take the time to read the warranty documentation.
That's only if you upgrade the RAM in one of Apple's newer Macs, or if the third-party part caused the issue.

For example, a friend of mine has an early 2011 15" MacBook Pro whose logic board fried a year or two ago. When he sent his MacBook Pro in, Apple did the repair for the flat rate price. They replaced his 16 gigabytes of Crucial RAM and replaced it with 8 gigabytes of Apple RAM, but they did the repair anyway.
 
I like the fact there is not an option for aftermarket upgrade. I only hoped for slightly better write speed than 425MB/s

Can't wait for first reviews (performance/power consumption).
Why are you glad that there's no aftermarket upgrade?
 
Yeah. I don't blame them either so I don't mean to whine (too much). But for those of us in the 90's who felt like we were helping out David in his battle with Goliath then it does sting to see how quickly Apple abandoned the artists once they became king. (And to pour salt on the wound, they market the Pencil "for the Creatives" as if Apple's abandonment of creatives hasn't disrupted our near-perfect Apple-centric workflows).



I think the original reasons for killing off the true "Pro" machines was because Apple was trying to streamline their product offerings. But with Apple's product library getting out of control again then it wouldn't hurt to reintroduce a Pro machine that actually had pro features, user upgradability and standard SSD.
It has nothing to do with streamlining product offerings. It was a one-for-one swap. Unless you're talking about a reduction in Configure-to-Order options. Regardless, they deliberately made it less upgradable. If they cared about upgradability, they would have made it a bit bigger and used PCIe instead of their proprietary interface for the graphics card.
 
I am always glad to see OWC offer new life to old machines. I like the company, and have used upgrades from them for my systems and for friends.

Now that my 2008 15" MBP is getting long in the tooth, it is amazing how more difficult it has become to do any after-market upgrades for Apple laptops. :|
 
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Turns out that this is actually a RAID 0 drive with two Silicon Motion SM2256 SATA 6Gbps controllers. I was mistaken for assuming it to be native PCIe with SM2260, apologies for that.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10128...ade-for-macbook-pro-and-macbook-air-pcie-ssds

The RAID 0 factor makes this much less appealing. The chance of failure is practically double and SSDs with internal RAID 0 have traditionally had pretty poor random performance. The SM2256 also means that the drive is likely using TLC NAND, and drives with such configuration haven't performed very well. I would say it's better to wait for actual native PCIe drives than buy this.

Those are incorrect assumptions. We absolutely are not using TLC flash in these or any of our current SSD/Flash models. As noted - all of our SSD solutions all use Tier 1 MLC NAND Flash. It is not a true statement to suggest that the chance of failure is doubled with this configuration at all - this is a a single, integrated flash array device - not a couple independent spinning hard drives raided up.

- OWC Larry
 
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