Palm Cobalt and Mac OS X

[micvog]

Re: Ugh! I am not going to say iPhone, but

Originally posted by snahabed
A stylish, hard drive based phone unit that iSyncs to iCal, Address, Mail, Safari Bookmarks...

If you want a hard-drive based phone, let it be a PowerPhone (ala PowerMac line).

All I want is a small, lightweight flip phone that syncs my address book and calendar flawlessly using bluetooth and that has a clean, simple and intuitive interface. That should be the iPhone (or even ePhone). I don't need a camera... an AAC player... or a built-in GameBoy.

I can understand why Apple doesn't want to manufacture a phone... but couldn't they at least team up with Sony, LG, Samsung, Nokia, etc. to get full iSync functionality in 3rd party phones?

Oh... and it has to be CDMA. None of the three GSM providers in my area cover my work location.

 

[geeyesgee]

Re: Ugh! I am not going to say iPhone, but

Originally posted by snahabed
This is exactly why I wish Apple would release a next-generation smartphone. ... A stylish, hard drive based phone unit that iSyncs to iCal, Address, Mail, Safari Bookmarks... Bluetooth, etc. it just seems all in place.

And don't forget the ability to connect to the iTunes Music Store remotely and wirelessly! iPod moving towards cell phone/PDA/digiCam would make huge business sense for Apple.

 

[snahabed]

I think the iPod mini drives would be perfect for a phone. Actually, not a bad basic form either.

We could go back and forth all day about the details... candybar vs. flip, keyboard vs. Ink, color vs. iPod screen, camera vs. none.... how would battery life be, how big would it be, basic vs. power functionality, have iPod functionality, etc. I just think there are huge strides to be made in this market (that is, the smartphone market, not the dead PDA market)... and it is clear that PocketPC, Palm, and Symbian blow huge chunks

Again, this is pretty much at the bottom of the rumor pile, but it just seems like phone/PDA companies are dropping the ball in innovation and interoperability with Mac systems.

 

[ThorPrime]

noooooooo

I've used a palm for 5 years and had 3 different models, but it looks like I won't be getting another.

It's true that if all you use a PDA for is contacts and date book, that you'de be better off with an iPod, but they can do so much more.
I've used mine as an eBook Reader, MP3 player, GameBoy (NesEM baby), Movie player (mmplayer), note taker, and so much more...
The PDA is not dead, it is just moving into the one handed laptop area...

I hope apple builds iSync support for cobalt, I would really hate to pay more $$ for a third party solution, just becuase i use a mac, no matter how good that solution is.

 

[Fukui]

Originally posted by BwanaZulia

- Contacts should be Vcards
- Memos should be XML based
- Calendars events should be iCal (forgot the open standard for that, know it is XML based)
- Todos should be built into the calendar or some other XML based standard. vToDo or ToDoML.

Right now, all of my extra data in vCard standard that AddressBook uses goes nowhere on my Palm.

BZ

Exactly. For the life of me, I don't understand why H/W maufactures dont open source thier drivers...I mean, if people port thier drivers to support everything under the sun, what does it matter to them? More sales? Oh no!!

 

[geerlingguy]

No emoticon can express the feelings of anger I have towards Palm right now! !

 

[Moonlight]

Email Palmsource !!!!

Send them a note, saying we want the new OS to sync witht the Mac !!!


http://www.palmsource.com/contact/write_os.html


Maybe if they get enough letters ?

 

[BobVB]

Re: Email Palmsource !!!!

Originally posted by Moonlight
Send them a note, saying we want the new OS to sync witht the Mac !!!


http://www.palmsource.com/contact/write_os.html


Maybe if they get enough letters ?

Oh and if you are getting the Palm email product ads, go to the bottom link and unsubscribe. They ask for feedback as to why you are quitting and what they could do to keep you interested. Go tell them!

 

[synergy]

Re: Complete and Utter Bull...

Originally posted by prismfinder
Developers always look at Apple's 5% marketshare and think it's not worth building apps for.

This is a big mistake. I'd be willing to bet that a much higher percentage of Mac users use PDAs than PC users. In fact, I know few Mac users that don't use PDAs.

Personally, however, I hope this just means Sony will move in on the Mac space by providing Mac support for the Clie.

I think the biggest mistake in ignoring the mac market is ignoring the trend setters. The Mac platform sets the trends for PCs. USB was made popular on the Mac, video editing for the masses was made popular on the Mac.

Just like the luxury cars of the world add the fancy features slowly those features trickle down to the masses. By software and hardware makers ignoring that aspect they write themselves out of existence.

Yes Apple has 3% of the marketshare, but their mindshare is much greater.

 

[tychay]

The open XML format for iCal is called "iCalendar" I believe it was used for a couple years before iCal popularized it.

A number of people are confusing PalmOne (hardware) with PalmSource (software). If you're going to blame PalmOne, you might as well blame Sony also.

This definitely sounds shortsighted--a lot of innovation in the Palm world has come from Mac people: Mark/Space, pedit, HackMaster, Palm Buddy, BrainForest, Documents To Go, etc. Many of the first category apps for the Palm were developed on the Mac because the development environment and structure is reminiscent of early Macintoshes. Heck they both favored CodeWarrior back then. I'm sure that the number of Mac-toting Palm users is much greater than Apple's marketshare or even % userbase. Especially since Palm is strong in the same countries that Apple is and you can count on a Mac user to probably think twice before buying a PocketPC.

In any case, most reports say that in the cell phone market and the handheld PDA market the long term trend is for a free operating system (Linux). I don't believe that Apple's innovative UI has much to offer here, and especially when it will have to compete with free. Even Microsoft is seeing encroachment. MS, I can understand, but Palm's lack of support for standards is... disheartening.

This action shouldn't be a surprise to the Mac world: Palm Desktop for Mac stuck on 5.0, lack of large file support in HotSync (keeping a lot of Mac owners from purchasing the Tapwave Zodiac), no IP synching, and, most egregiously, the fact that POSS (Palm OS Simulator and the sequel to POSE) doesn't support Macintosh. Apple was the company that made Acorn (ARM) what it is when they developed the Newton. Even the cruddy Symbian OS migrated to a Java emulator a long time ago...

I guess some employees of Be still hold a grudge that Apple bought out NeXT instead of them.* Then again, when a company starts outsourcing its core competency out to India, we could just blame the whole thing on the fact they have too many morons steering the ship.

I noticed that PalmSource is switching to an open-source toolchain. At least then a decent Palm simulator will come to the Mac by way of the Linux world.

Then again, even WindRiver (the largest embedded software company) has decided to do a 180 degree and adopt Linux. So I guess the open-source writing in on the wall. First Linux will eat the Windows CE userbase, then the cell phones, and finally the PDA market.

* I could argue here that if Larry Slotnik is correct by saying that the new features inherited from BeOS (multimedia, multithreading, ARM native implementation) make the Palm so different that PalmSource can be troubled to make a Mac port of a tiny little driver (HotSync). Well then, I guess Apple must have made a good decision because if you can't port a PDA to the Mac now, then how could you have expected to port an entire operating system to replace the Mac eight years ago?

 

[mkrowland]

oh, well

As long as iSync and iCal still sync with my Tungsten C, I could care less. Palm desktop software has been clunky since I updated to OSX years ago.

I say adieu, Palm desktop.

 

[shadowself]

Palm stupidity

This is really stupid of Palm to do.

So virtually the only platform they will directly support is various forms of the Windows OS. Isn't this their major competitor? Isn't their maket share among Windows users falling like a rock? Isn't the usage of Palm devices (among PDA users) a higher percent in Mac OS users than in Windows OS users (i.e., well over half of Mac OS users who have a PDA are Palm users while less than half of Windows users who have a PDA are Palm users)?

If these are all true, then Palm has finally set itself up to fail completely.

I am a Palm user (have a Tungsten T and was considering a T3 or getting whatever the follow on will be).

The ultimate hald held in my opinion? Look at the mobile devices in the old Sci-Fi TV series "Earth, Final Conflict". With the flexible screens that are just starting to get out of the labs those might actually be available within the next ten years -- or maybe (hopefully?) Apple is working on them in their lab right now.

 

[Docrjm]

Have used four diff palms to date, if they no longer provide integration with mac, i will prob no longer ugrade palm hardware.
This is very narrowminded of palm.

 

[tex210]

ithink

something wicked this way comes...
If third party support is required to get a device working, said device will not sell very well in our community. I was looking forward to a treo gsm, but this pretty much kills that, even if it is still contains the older hotsync/os5.... Palm is saying future (cobalt(where it matters the most)) development for Apple is dead. Step up Jobs... we want our NEWton!

 

[tychay]

Re: oh, well

Originally posted by mkrowland
As long as iSync and iCal still sync with my Tungsten C, I could care less. Palm desktop software has been clunky since I updated to OSX years ago.

I say adieu, Palm desktop.

If you read the whole article you will see it covers both Palm Desktop and HotSync. So you and I are SOL if we were to upgrade our Tungsten|C's to Cobalt unless you go third party or Apple steps up.

The article was written by Ed Hardy, a mac user (or used to be), so I trust him to get it right.

Another juicy bit of irony is I wonder where Palm got the idea of renaming Palm OS 5 "Garnet" and Palm OS 6 "Cobalt". I understand why Apple had to do it with Jaguar and Panther (because by they couldn't very well call it "mac oh-ess ten eleven" and "mac oh-ess ten twelve", but whose marketting coattails are they riding on anyway?

First the letter X is in vogue and now it is strange codenames to replace numbers, I can't wait to see what Microsoft calls Windows Longhorn when it finally comes out...

Anyone remember the MacWorld keynote where Jobs brought out Palm saying, "We've been working closely with these guys!" Or have we forgotten that along with voice print logging in, the Cube and the Apple Studio Display?

Take care,

terry

 

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by BobVB
serendipity strikes again. I just fired off a feedback to Handspring/Palm last night that because they have chosen to drop Graffiti input for their PDA smart phones I will be looking elsewhere for one.

With keyboard input only I will ALWAYS have to look at the device to enter information - with handwriting recognition I don't.

My next PDA will be a smartphone and it will be a GSM/GPRS one with bluetooth, handwriting recognition (Graffiti, Jot etc) and customizable programming (Palm would be great but I guess Java will be ok). The Sony Ericsson P900 fits the bill so far and Palm isn't even in the running.

Have you checked out Samsung's SPH-i500?

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=SPH-I500

I agree that Graffiti was best. I loved my Kyocera 6035 Palm/phone combo. But it died recently, and now I have a Treo 300. I wish I could afford the i500, though.

 

[cubist]

A third-party app will only sell to a small portion of an already small community... which means not very many sales, which means not much reward for making a good program.

I have an Audiovox Thera (PocketPC 2002). I got PocketMac 3.1, which worked, barely. It took 7 minutes to sync, vs. 20 seconds on the PC. It syncs with Entourage or iCal. There are numerous bugs.

All of you who are putting down Palm Desktop, get some experience with iCal first. iCal is a toy - the to-do list is painfully clunky, only offers a couple of sorting options, and crashes from time to time. Tasks can only be on one calendar (category). The calendar didn't support timezones before 1.5.2, I haven't tried it since then. Sure, it looks pretty.

Anyone who can organize their life with iCal has a pretty simple life, and doesn't need a PDA.

One other point - handwriting recognition on the PocketPC is not as good as Palm's... but the best handwriting recognition out there is - believe it or not! - Graffiti on the Newton 2100.

 

[BobVB]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Have you checked out Samsung's SPH-i500?

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=SPH-I500

I agree that Graffiti was best. I loved my Kyocera 6035 Palm/phone combo. But it died recently, and now I have a Treo 300. I wish I could afford the i500, though.

Nice, but no Bluetooth and Sprint only. I mean my needs for the perfect phone so small - GSM/GPRS, bluetooth (gotta have a wireless headset), Grafitti and Palm OS that will sync with a Mac. I don't need a camera, MP3 player or the like.

 

[david_r_p]

I'm extremely disappointed

I don't even use a Palm device (but my wife does), but I am starting to get a sinking feeling about our chosen platform. How many relevant pieces of hardware and software can we afford to lose before we lose all viability? Anyone remember the Amiga? I don't want to have to purchase $40.00 third party apps just to do something as simple as syncing a Palm. This is so frustrating...

 

[lewdvig]

If it isn't clear yet, the best mobile OS is Symbian. Screw palm and MS. A small series 60 (or even just SyncML compatible) phone and iPod is all anyone needs.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally posted by lewdvig
If it isn't clear yet, the best mobile OS is Symbian. Screw palm and MS. A small series 60 (or even just SyncML compatible) phone and iPod is all anyone needs.

What about syncing with the Mac? Aren't we back to relying on third-party support?

And will Sprint buy into it? Still waiting for them to support Bluetooth officially.

 

[Trimix]

i must be getting on in age, but after trying almost every handheld device and after having been deserted by HP and their decision to abandon the 200LX, i have moved over to a nokia communicator and my trusted filofax - and guess what - this combo is the perfect office on the road
screw palm for not addressing mac users' needs

 

[michaelb]

Re: Email Palmsource !!!!

Originally posted by Moonlight
Send them a note...
http://www.palmsource.com/contact/write_os.html
Maybe if they get enough letters ?

Absolutely right. We cannot rely on Palm picking up on the anger expressed in the forums.

I've sent the letter below. I urge everyone concerned about this issue to send something similar. And tell your friends to tell their friends to do the same: the backlash may then come to their attention.

Dear PalmSource,

I am extremely disappointed to read that you no longer intend to support the Mac OS with your future products.

As a Palm user since 1996, having owned six iterations of them up to my current T3 and recommended them to countless numbers of buyers (both Mac and PC users), I feel that my support of the Palm platform may now be drawing to an end.

I am aware that 3rd party solution(s) may be available to provide the missing synch support, just as they exist for using Pocket PC devices on a Mac. However, by not providing "out of the box" support for the Mac platform, you are sending a clear message to both the press and the Mac-using community that you believe the platform no longer worth your attention.

I strongly urge you to reconsider this short-sighted and potentially damaging move. You may not be aware that many of us Mac users do actually talk to PC users and influence their PDA buying decisions. To jettison the minority Mac platform because of its low marketshare is one thing, but to cause them to become disgusted advocates for competing products is another.

Please reconsider your strategy.

Sincerely,

Michael ----------
Palm user since '96

 

[rog]

Re: Re: mobile phones

Originally posted by Lancetx
I did the same thing a couple of months ago too. Between my BT phone and iPod, I didn't need my Palm anymore either. This news just reinforces the fact that I made the right decision by getting rid of it. Good riddance PalmOne...

Well, a lot of us actually know how to use a PDA for more than contacts and calendars. For instance, with mine, I sure the web, do email, enter expenses and sync with Quicken with PocketQuicken, create documents and sync them to the desktop with Wordsmith and Documents to Go, view photos that were on my Mac using Splash Photo. Ditch your phone, get a Treo instead.

Without native Mac support, Palm developers will stop making mac conduits and mac users will be screwed. Apple is never going to make a PDA because PDAs are going to die and become converged devices like the Treo. After using my Treo a couple days, I would have never gone back to a regular PDA and a cell phone.

Everyone who is upset by this should email Palm, including investor relations. Tell them you are an irate shareholder and you'll be selling off your shares and telling others to do the same. These jerks need to reverse this decision and fast!

If you can't use either major PDA OS with a mac out of the box, that is a huge problem for Apple. iSync is a joke and as it is is still dependent on Palm software. It also doesn't make up for lack of mac specific conduits.

 

[johnpaul191]

$40 Mac tax.... lame

i guess it doesn't bother me that i may have to use a 3rd party app..... it does bother me that i would have to pay a $40 "Mac tax". The Mac and *Nix users are always subsudizing the windows software we throw away with our scanners, PDAs, printers, cell phone data cables (thanks Verizon!), and whatever else. <P>
That being said i am thankful that SOMEONE makes the devices work on Macs, and deserve some cash for their efforts. Maybe Palm makers or someone will license the app and offer it with the device. I really hope Palm doesnt become as lame as Sony with supporting customers. At least Palm still beats Sony in durability of devices. ARG. I'll NEVER buy a PocketPC, so it's another Palm or scale down to a cell phone. They do have me there.