Palm Pre to Sync with iTunes on Macs?

[SandynJosh]

I would be more surprised if Apple stood by and did nothing about this rather than release an update that stops the sync from happening...why you ask? Because while Apple would make $$ from Pre users buying music, that would be one less device able to use app's from their app store, of which Apple makes 30%.

There is a huge leap from playing music on a device and running an app. Put that funny cigarette down and move away from the ashtray.

 

[nagromme]

Apple allows third parties access to iTunes.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172?viewlocale=en_US

I don't see any indication that Palm has done anything that Apple would be concerned about by hooking into iTunes.

Thanks for the link (And to add to that: devices not on the list may be compatible with one on the list--and thus, they show up in iTunes as one of the listed models and work just fine.)

Now back to our regularly-scheduled knee-jerk "Apple is more closed/restrictive/greedy/sue-happy/evil than other companies" discussion

 

[longofest]

If Apple disabled Pre's ability to Sync, that would be insanely stupid.

I love how we as a community have blasted Microsoft over the years for being anti-competitive and monopolistic, when the crap Apple is starting to pull is worse than anything MS did.

Apple could inadvertently break Palm's syncing capability if they update their iPhone-iTunes communication interface. My guess is that Palm reverse engineered the protocol to get this to work, so a future update to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod Touch firmware could break the functionality.

 

[Penguinwrangler]

I'm sorry, but I just can't get excited about the Pre AT ALL until someone explains to me how you type on the damned thing without it wobbling all around and falling out of your hands!! The keyboard is at the very bottom, and unless it's dramatically lighter than other current smartphones, has to be really top-heavy when typing.

 

[BaldiMac]

You're reading that the wrong way. Apple built in the functionality, not the other way around.

I'm not sure what you think I am misreading. I was just demonstrating that Apple does allow third party access to iTunes. I do not know how the functionality is implemented.

 

[danny_w]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172?viewlocale=en_US

Apple lists the following mp3 players as compatible with iTunes (updated July 22, 2008):

Digital Players Manufacturer Connection
iPod Apple FireWire / USB
Nomad II Creative Labs USB
Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB
Nomad II c Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB
Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB
Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 500 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 600 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 800 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 900 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S10 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S11 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S30S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S35S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S50 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Chiba SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Fuse SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Cali SONICBlue/S3 USB
psa]play 60 Nike USB
psa]play 120 Nike USB
SoundSpace 2 Nakamichi USB
CD MP3 Players Manufacturer
RioVolt SP250 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP100 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP90 SONICBlue/S3

EDIT: Sorry, a little late on the save button!

 

[statik13]

Whoo-hoo! The Pre is looking more and more like the device I want to buy. It won't be much of a music / movie player at 8 gigs, but syncing to iTunes will definitely help.

 

[nagromme]

I'm not sure what you think I am misreading. I was just demonstrating that Apple does allow third party access to iTunes. I do not know how the functionality is implemented.

For just loading tracks, I assume not much is needed beyond standard access like any USB storage volume. For playlists, I'm curious what would be involved--I'm guessing some 3rd-party players sync them and others don't? Or is there one industry standard for playlists on all devices? (I would imagine iTunes would sync playlists and not just songs before the iPod existed--but I don't know technically how it works.)

 

[longofest]

I'm not sure what you think I am misreading. I was just demonstrating that Apple does allow third party access to iTunes. I do not know how the functionality is implemented.

The only form of official third party access to iTunes comes in the form of iTunes plugins. Any other access is Apple-developed. The third party devices you linked to had their interfaces developed by Apple.

My point here, is that Apple is not in the practice of having other companies write their device drivers for iTunes compatibility, so Palm did this without Apple's blessing. The link that you showed was a different scenario when Apple did the device drivers.

 

[SandynJosh]

Apple is in business to make money, yes I know this is obvious, but no one is mentioning the obvious....
If the pre threatens Apples money flow don't they have to respond in a
hostile way? Wouldn't you?

For craps sake, this announcement ENHANCES Apple's money flow.

Allowing a multitouch patent infringement, on the other hand, would threaten Apple's ability to offer an unique user experience on an iPhone, iTouch, the current laptops, and any future products that use multitouch.

 

[slu]

Smart move by Palm. I am an iPhone user currently, but when my contract is up and if the Pre is a good phone, I now have two devices to choose from.

I know you can sync the Blackberry with helper apps, but I never wanted to bother. Working with iTunes out of the box is a big selling point to people like me. To switch, I would not have to change anything other than the device. That is huge.

And this is good for the consumer. If the Pre is easy to use and sync, it would be an actual competitor to the iPhone, driving innovation and price decreases for all of us.

 

[BaldiMac]

For just loading tracks, I assume not much is needed beyond standard access like any USB storage volume. For playlists, I'm curious what would be involved--I'm guessing some 3rd-party players sync them and others don't? Or is there one industry standard for playlists on all devices? (I would imagine iTunes would sync playlists and not just songs before the iPod existed--but I don't know technically how it works.)

My completely uneducated guess would be that Apple licenses APIs to third parties. Any translation to store and identify the files in the third party device would be processed by the devices firmware.

 

[Darth.Titan]

iTunes has been around long before the iPod, and it's been syncing with plenty of devices since then.

I would not call a bit over 10 months "long before". iTunes was obviously released as the iPod was in final development to prepare the way for its release.

The rest of your point is absolutely valid however. I'm just being nit-picky.

 

[iOrlando]

I dont see apple allowing that to continue. The idea that it will simply sell more songs and stuff is pretty weak. Apple makes squat from the songs; itunes is simply meant to entertain apple product owners. Apple would much rather have you buy their products and then use itunes instead of having non-apple users also buy off of itunes.

 

[fourthtunz]

For craps sake, this announcement ENHANCES Apple's money flow.

Allowing a multitouch patent infringement, on the other hand, would threaten Apple's ability to offer an unique user experience on an iPhone, iTouch, the current laptops, and any future products that use multitouch.

It does? I don't work for Apple so I don't know what they know.
All I'm saying is if it doesn't increase profit for them they of course have to respond in a way that protects their cash flow.

 

[kas23]

Hmmm... I'm just sitting here waiting for Tim Cook's "Lawsuit".

However, this would sell alot more music from iTMS.

Excellent point. For this very reason, they just may not mind. It may even turn some PC people onto Apple's product.

This is all great news. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how this violates the EULA. Even if it does, good luck trying to hold it up in court. This isn't exactly Psystar.

 

[danny_w]

I would not call a bit over 10 months "long before". iTunes was obviously released as the iPod was in final development to prepare the way for its release.

The rest of your point is absolutely valid however. I'm just being nit-picky.

Apple bought what became iTunes, so yes, it predated the iPod by a long shot (exactly how long I don't know).

 

[tyr2]

"In fact, the iTunes Store treats the Pre just as it would an iPod or an iPhone with one exception: it can't handle old copy-protected songs."

And presumably it can't handle shiny new copy-protected videos either.

 

[longofest]

And presumably it can't handle shiny new copy-protected videos either.

Aye. Videos and Movies are definitely out.

 

[babyj]

I can't see why Apple would want to stop this, there is massive potential in getting customers to buy in to iTunes and then move on to other Apple products. I know there is potential for a fact - that is how Apple got me.

I was on Windows and needed a decent music manager, I tried everything I could find and went with the best - iTunes. I ripped all my music cd's with iTunes and was impressed with the way it worked so when it came to buying an MP3 player I got an iPod Mini.

I was more than impressed with my iPod Mini so when it came to buying a new laptop I got a MacBook. Things continued to get better, I got an iPod was really impressed by the syncing - having my photo's, video's, calendar all sync up perfectly and in my pocket.

Then I needed a new phone, got an iPhone and was blown away by the syncing - it worked perfectly (email, contacts, calendar) and took me all of 30 seconds to set up. I literally spent days / weeks trying to do the same with my old phone and Windows and never got it to work.

I reckon Apple will benefit from it more than Palm.

 

[Darth.Titan]

Apple bought what became iTunes, so yes, it predated the iPod by a long shot (exactly how long I don't know).

The original comment I replied to was about iTunes, not SoundJam MP. SoundJam was reworked rather extensively after Apple bought it, so they are not the same thing.

 

[BaldiMac]

The only form of official third party access to iTunes comes in the form of iTunes plugins. Any other access is Apple-developed. The third party devices you linked to had their interfaces developed by Apple.

Okay. Like I said, I don't know how the functionality is implemented.

My point here, is that Apple is not in the practice of having other companies write their device drivers for iTunes compatibility, so Palm did this without Apple's blessing.

Do you have any information to support this claim?

 

[hbg]

Whoo-hoo! The Pre is looking more and more like the device I want to buy. It won't be much of a music / movie player at 8 gigs, but syncing to iTunes will definitely help.

Before you make the decision to get that Pre, consider the following:

1. Can’t surf net or email while on phone.
2. No visual voicemail.
3. Can’t download from Amazon store over 3G. Sprint will only allow over wifi.
4. No onscreen typing ability. If you want to type a web address, for example, in landscape mode, you have to rotate the phone to type on the keyboard. I know- somebody will say a developer will develop an app- but it does not exist yet.
5. Smaller screen than iPhone.
6. Only 8 gig memory, which, after system software, leaves just over 7 gigs. Heck, a modest music collection will consume most of that. Pitiful in the current smartphone era when new iPhone rumored to go to 16 and 32.
7. Small, cramped keyboard.
8. Can’t use internationally.

There are some positives for the Pre:
1. Multitasking.
2. Hard keyboard (albeit with problems noted above).
3. Sprint 3G network larger than AT&T (but could change).

 

[Hattig]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172?viewlocale=en_US

Apple lists the following mp3 players as compatible with iTunes (updated July 22, 2008):

Digital Players Manufacturer Connection
iPod Apple FireWire / USB
Nomad II Creative Labs USB
..

Yeah, a bunch of ancient MP3 players, some of them were out before the original iPod!

Allowing manual drag and drop to a USB mounted filesystem isn't really support in my opinion. Support is allowing all the clever playlist syncing stuff that iTunes can do to work with the other player, even to the point of having an icon for that player show up.

Apple can do the right thing - allow and encourage third party devices to plug into iTunes as a digital media library, or the wrong thing (lock down, anti-competitive, Microsoftian, etc).

 

[kas23]

Apple could inadvertently break Palm's syncing capability if they update their iPhone-iTunes communication interface. My guess is that Palm reverse engineered the protocol to get this to work, so a future update to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod Touch firmware could break the functionality.

I doubt they "reverse engineered" it, but rather engineered it. Remember, Rubinstein was key in the development of the iPod, so he probably knows a thing or two about the inner workings of iTunes. And as the article says, there are other former Apple employees that have worked on the development of the Pre.

I know you are not directly trashing the Pre, but people have to remember that the Pre was developed by some of the very same minds that helped develop some of the products we love, the iPod. Since the iPhone has been in development for years, it is likely these people helped develop the iPhone too. Just because they now work for a different company doesn't mean they are now producing garbage.