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Palm Releases webOS 1.3.1, iTunes Media Sync Missing
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HLdan
macrumors 603
This was not one of Palm's engineers "sneaking" a fake device I.D, FYI, Palm advertised the sync functionality with iTunes on their own website so it definitely had to be a corporate decision to create the hack. Also, think about it, if was any engineer's wrong doing do you think that Palm would keep on patching the hack after Apple kept bricking it?
Heaven forbid that Apple should give their users a better experience by allowing another music player to synchronise directly through iTunes instead of third party software. Apple here are guilty of the sort of practices they have criticised PCs manufacturers for before, i.e. encouraging ever increasing numbers of pointless programs to bloat the machine. If Apple applied the same logic to routers then Macs could only connect to Airstations. I could only tether my laptop through an iPhone (while of course paying extra on a contract to be able to do so). I could only use Apple displays and Apple keyboards (in fact only Apple keyboards are properly supported in OSX but PC keyboards will work if you can stand to have some buttons remapped wrongly).
Apple play ball with other peripherals as long as it suits them to do so. It may be their right to prevent the Palm Pre from synching but that doesn't stop it from being a petty and hypocritical thing to do. So all those defending Apple as if they were somehow being molested by Palm here should really take a step back to take stock.
Apple play ball with other peripherals as long as it suits them to do so. It may be their right to prevent the Palm Pre from synching but that doesn't stop it from being a petty and hypocritical thing to do. So all those defending Apple as if they were somehow being molested by Palm here should really take a step back to take stock.
sterlingindigo
macrumors 6502
So how are Pre/Pixi sales going now, anyway? I can't seem to find any news on that even for the UK. (Or on the new MS Retail Stores)
ChazUK
macrumors 603
This is possibly the worst aspect of what Palm have done with the pre and iTunes sync.
There must be a few customers who unwittingly bought the Pre with the intention of using it with iTunes who are SOL now it isn't working and for some reason, a few people are painting Apple in a bad light as if it's their fault.
Whilst disabling the sync may seem petty, it's up to Apple what they do with their software.
MorphingDragon
macrumors 603
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
The comment I made was in response to a post that supposed that the salesperson claimed the Pre supports iTunes syncing. If this is the salesperson for the mobile company, I think you would have grounds for termination of contract.
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/091027/aapl10-k.html
Scroll down to the table. Apple's revenue last year was $36.5B, and about $4B of that, or about 10% of their revenue was from music sales ("Other music related products and services"). Unlike the other 90% of their revenue, the 10% from music sales has to support the labels cut in addition to their development and operations costs. It's not that far of a leap to conclude that their margins on music sales are far less than hardware sales (especially given how high their margins are on hardware). This means that over 90% of their profits are from hardware. I would speculate it's somewhere near 95%.
As an additional illustration of the marginal profits in the on-line music business is the fact that two currently most viable on-line music stores are both using music sales as a marginal side business: Apple and Amazon. Apple has found it lucrative to use music to support hardware sales. Amazon has found that the marginal cost of supporting a music store can be justified by the marginal music profits, probably because they already have an established on-line store, customer base, payment system, etc. To me, it is very telling that there are few (if any?) other viable on-line music stores that exist in a stand-alone music-only business model. How many have tried and failed? 10? 20? To me, it was just obvious that the on-line music business is quite marginal, and makes sense that any strategy by Apple to focus there at the potential expense of hardware would be foolish. So yes, I take strong exception to anyone frustrated by Apple's moves against Palm naively thinking it is from spite, pettiness or being dumb.
When I said "follow the money", I assumed that it was understood that the on-line music sales business is not that lucrative, and that Apple does not make much profits on it. I'm sorry that you were not following that point. Once you do, it is very easy to follow the money. Apple recognizes that the music sales business is marginal, but represents a very nice value-ad for a much more lucrative hardware business model. While at first glance it may appear illogical for them to give a damn if someone else uses iTunes to sync with their device, when you follow the money and their business model, it becomes obvious why they view the integration of iTunes solely with their hardware as a core component of their value to their customers.
Edit: Here is an article I found laying it out nicely. The article claims Apple makes a 60% margin on the iPhone, and 10% margin on music store sales. Run that through the numbers on the table, and only considering iPhones and the music store (excluding iPods, Macs and others), and you have music profits of only $400M and iPhone profits of $4B, or 90% from hardware, when only the iPhone is considered. It would be higher if iPods are considered.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/153538-why-apple-isn-t-making-itunes-available-for-the-palm-pre
*LTD*
macrumors G4
matticus008
macrumors 68040
No. The features of the phone are not part of the service contract. The statement has no bearing whatsoever on the terms of the contract, regardless of its truth or who said it.
You can get out of a contract only if the material terms of the contract itself change or if you were fraudulently (i.e. not simply misinformed) misled about the meaning of the terms of the contract by the offeror, and that fraud induced you to agree. In this case, the salesperson gave you no incorrect information about your contract, to say nothing of fraudulently incorrect information.
A salesperson for the company reading from the list of features provided by Palm does not give you any leverage with your service contract with the cellular company. It gives you leverage against Palm and Palm alone.
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
I think a company would have a hard time arguing the two were not tied when they sell them as a bundle, the salesperson closes the deal on both, and makes fraudulent statements about one. The courts look poorly on big corporations and fine print / double speak sales information, and usually gives benefit of the doubt to consumers in such matters. You may be representing the wording in the contract correctly, just as fine print may state certain things. But I am quite certain a good case could be made to my point.
This thing reminds me of the internal Microsoft saying back in the 80s. "DOS isn't done 'till Lotus (1-2-3) won't run."
For those of you unfamiliar, Microsoft thought that they should own the DOS software market because they owned DOS.
For those of you unfamiliar, Microsoft thought that they should own the DOS software market because they owned DOS.
in my opinion i think its mandatory to sync with itunes in order to achieve the highest possible convienience for users. Especially for mac users.
i for example don`t want to own an iphone anymore since every man and his dog have it by now. I like the apple products (got the latest 15" mbp and a 15" pb before) but keep in mind a little bit of competition is always good. on the other hand i like having a hardware keyboard....although for myself the palm pre keyboard is too small. What happens without a noticeable competitior can easily be seen when looking at the prices for iphones.
i for example don`t want to own an iphone anymore since every man and his dog have it by now. I like the apple products (got the latest 15" mbp and a 15" pb before) but keep in mind a little bit of competition is always good. on the other hand i like having a hardware keyboard....although for myself the palm pre keyboard is too small. What happens without a noticeable competitior can easily be seen when looking at the prices for iphones.
Most pre users that care about media sync probably didn't "upgrade" to iTunes 9.0.2, since all that did was break Palm Pre syncing.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
Your analogy fails because iTunes isn't an Operating System. Nothing runs on top of iTunes. If Palm had written some sync software for OS X and Apple were purposefully breaking it with OS X updates, you might have some kind of a point.
Too bad that's not the situation at all.
*LTD*
macrumors G4
You think most Pre users would know NOT to upgrade? Isn't that expecting a bit much?
DMann
macrumors 601
matticus008
macrumors 68040
Well, you would be wrong.
If I sell you an Apple iPod and a Marware case as a bundle, and the Marware case is defective, what does that have to do with Apple? If I sell you a subscription to Vonage and a Panasonic phone, and the Panasonic phone breaks, how is that Vonage's fault? The fact that they are sold together does not make Palm's software part of your contract.
No salesperson made a fraudulent statement about any of them. Yet again, I will repeat the really very simple point: Palm advertised the feature improperly. The cellular carriers get stock information, and their salespeople may reasonably rely on that information. Reasonable reliance precludes a finding of fraud.
Yeah, no. They don't. Verizon or any other carrier is not responsible for Palm's childish hacking games. Palm advertised and delivered a software feature that was improperly implemented. That rests with Palm and Palm alone.
It has exactly nothing to do with a cellular service contract. If you disagree, point out the language in the service agreement that talks about syncing with iTunes. There isn't any.
And I am absolutely certain it could not be.
Once begun, a cellular service contract can only be terminated by paying an ETF or when the terms of the contract are changed by the provider. That's it.
If a software update makes your favorite Windows Mobile application stop working, that has nothing to do with your Verizon contract. If Motorola decides to disable syncing via USB on your phone, that has nothing to do with your contract. If Palm gives up on its iTunes hack and is too lazy to write a real sync utility, that too has nothing to do with your phone service contract.
The material terms of your contract are duration, service provided, fees, and usage policies. Identify the portion of the service agreement that has changed as a result of the iTunes hack not working.
Exactly what technology has Apple either Admitted stealing or has been convicted by a court as stealing? Cite please (and no, pending lawsuits that have not progressed passed filed do not count - anybody can do that without proof).
Huh?
If you are referring to this, not that I said convicted and specifically stated no accusations. I can accuse you of murder - without proof it’s meaningless though. I see nothing that said Apple has been convicted of stealing this technology. All we have is a filing - which I specifically said does not count. Anybody can file a suit without one iota of proof. Provide me proof (and not allegations) with a cite and I might believe you. Otherwise, you better retract that comment if you expect to be taken seriously.
MorphingDragon
macrumors 603
Well thats already obvious! 😀 Sadly I do not see that product in Apples portfolio....