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Palm Reportedly Rejected Jobs' Proposal Not to Poach Each Others' Employees

anti- trust anyone

ummm, can u imagine if companies made deals like this between each other all the time on a large scale??

indentured servitude, collusion, anti-trust etc!!

nice to see bosses, genius or not, decide where people choose to work or not!


tmoore049 said:
non-compete clauses are now wrong and illegal??
maybe i need to brush up on my contract drafting skills, but i have been under the impression throughout my career that a properly defined, reasonable agreement to protect intellectual property is somewhat normal, if not essential. while an outright prohibition in space and time may very well be unenforceable, an argument could be made that this was just a friendly reminder that liability may stick should a non-compete agreement be broken or a breach of contract induced. consequently, everybody should be weary of hiring anybody's ex-employees. of course its easy to blame jobs as a 'control freak' (although not personally knowing the man i feel it is simply idiotic to make such claims) this seems to me to be nothing more than a PREemptive (no pun intended) legal manouver to buttress a NCC
then again, you americans have some pretty 'interesting' anti-trust laws, so im not entirely sure where fiduciariy obligations end and anti-trust violations begin... (i would hazard a guess that most people are as confused as i am)
Click to expand...
 
Let's see, Palm has been raising its intellectual capital over the last several years by hiring high ranking Apple employees. It has happened more than once, and has give Palm some degree of legitimacy (even if it may be too late).

What was the number of high-ranking employees hired away from Palm by Apple in the last few years?

So if you're Palm do you sign the agreement?

Thought not.
 
There's lots of bad blood between Apple and Palm. That is apparent by Schiller's douchebag reference to the Palm App Catalog during WWDC.

How many Palm employees did Apple poach during the run-up to the iPhone? A source I read on PalmInfoCenter.com said 2%, which is a considerable portion. Apple obviously took the cream from the top, the best 2%.

I don't blame Palm for not agreeing to a non-poach agreement. I think Palm has a very nice OS now, and if they have the time to refine their OS over the next year, they'll beat the iPhone (at least in it's current iteration).

Add to the fact Palm will have webOS phones on all the major carriers soon, and I don't see why people always say Palm is on life support.

Apple was on life support in the mid 90's and look at them now.
 
Multi-Tasking Pre = 1HOUR BATTERY

dagamer34 said:
It's easier to make a cohesive argument when you use facts. The iPhone 3GS and the Palm Pre both use a ARM Cortex A8 processor, however the Palm Pre is clocked at 500Mhz, whereas the iPhone 3GS is clocked at 600Mhz.

In other words, the Palm Pre has a SLOWER CPU, not faster.
Click to expand...

Actually, I've asked a friend of mine how his Pre was working for him.. and he says, "Multi-Tasking is great! It just runs my battery down SOOO FAST!" Which is why Jobs stated in the BEGINNING that Apple does not allow multi-tasking.
 
Why is this illegal?

Why would it be illegal for two companies to agree not to hire each others employees. That is ridiculous. Companies can choose who to hire and when what do you think this is Russia?

The Government is investigating Apple and Google for Schmidt being on Apples board which he is not anymore, not for their hiring practices. There is nothing illegal about this. The only reason the palm CEO said this is because he did not want to agree to what Jobs was proposing and he knew the only way Palm could maybe come out of it's coma was to hire rubenstein and other Apple engineers to build the Pre and I am still not convinced that it worked, if they were out of their coma they would have built a better phone than the iphone not that plastic piece of crap they call the Pre that feels like it is going to fall apart in your hands and they would have partnered with a real carrier not Sprint, they are a joke as well just like Palm is a joke!!!!
 
What?

brofkand said:
There's lots of bad blood between Apple and Palm. That is apparent by Schiller's douchebag reference to the Palm App Catalog during WWDC.

How many Palm employees did Apple poach during the run-up to the iPhone? A source I read on PalmInfoCenter.com said 2%, which is a considerable portion. Apple obviously took the cream from the top, the best 2%.

I don't blame Palm for not agreeing to a non-poach agreement. I think Palm has a very nice OS now, and if they have the time to refine their OS over the next year, they'll beat the iPhone (at least in it's current iteration).

Add to the fact Palm will have webOS phones on all the major carriers soon, and I don't see why people always say Palm is on life support.

Apple was on life support in the mid 90's and look at them now.
Click to expand...

The Web OS is not a great OS. It has major issues, it is slow and unresponsive, drains the battery, and is not a great device. Not to mention the horrible body it has, it is akin to the first generation Iphone not the 3gs, the 3gs blows it out of the water. Also 8gb of memory I had that on my first Iphone, if you think Palm will ever come close to the Iphone then you are living on another planet. Google with Android may be a different story if they can find someone to build a decent piece of hardware for it with a headphone jack!!! Also they need to get Android out with multi touch. But the hardware is key. Apple got out of Life Support because of Jobs coming back I don't see how Palm is going to come back if they keep building crappy devices.
 
gilkisson said:
1) Reference that Apple employees are at "low, cheap salaries" please.
Click to expand...

http://hurvitz.org/blog/2008/06/apples-engineers-profit-center

swingerofbirch said:
Why would Palm want to have agreed? Do they have anyone Apple wants?
Click to expand...

Apple hired 2% of Palm's workforce away from them to make the iPhone.

"In his August 2007 communications with Jobs, Colligan said Apple had hired at least 2 percent of Palm’s workforce as the company developed the iPhone. Apple released the iPhone in June 2007."
 
Yea, using another company's USB vendor ID and ID codes is very legal. <sarcasm>

Not to mention that Apple blocked this and Palm found another to cheat and lie. Somehow that is legal in their [Palm] blind eyes but not some business agreement. Palm, suck it up because you suck at making phones now and even worse in judging the legality of your cheating and lying.
 
Rubinstein is sort of fascinating. And the events that lead up to his joining Palm are also interesting.

• Rubinstein was hired by Steve Jobs in 1990 to run NeXT's hardware division. In 1993, Rubinstein oversaw the dismantling of NeXT's hardware division and left the company.

• In early 1997, Steve Jobs again recruited Rubinstein to work for Apple. Rubinstein was hired as Sr. Vice President of Mac hardware. He personally oversaw the hardware development of the iMac G3 and is credited with deciding to use USB as the primary input bus.

• Rubinstein also oversaw the launch of the G3, G4 and G5 processors across Apple's entire line of computers. He's credited with coming up with the marketing term, "megahertz myth" that was popularized by Apple in the late-1990's until the launch of the Intel Macs in 2006.

• In 2004, the iPod and Mac divisions were split and Rubinstein took over as Sr. Vice President of iPod development.

• In late 2005, Apple begins work on a secret project under Steve Jobs' control that would later become the iPhone. Apple begins recruiting engineers from Palm and other cell phone makers.

• It's been reported that the iPhone team was kept completely separate from other engineering teams including Rubinstein's. It's unclear how much or little Rubinstein knew about the iPhone project.

• Rubinstein resigned as Sr. Vice President of iPod development in mid-2006, roughly a year before the original iPhone shipped. He told Steve Jobs that he had made millions in Apple stock and wanted to retire with his family in Mexico.

• In late 2006, he was approached by ex-Apple CFO Fred Anderson to work for Palm.

• In early 2007, Rubinstein joined Palm as the head of R&D. Palm then began recruiting Apple engineers to work on a new project which became the Palm Pre. Apple previewed the iPhone to its Macworld audience. Apple moves Mac OS X engineers to iPhone project.

• In April 2007, Apple delays 10.5 Leopard due to lack of engineering resources.

• In mid-2007, Apple shipped the iPhone. Steve Jobs makes plea to Palm to quit recruiting Apple engineers.

• In mid-2008, Apple shipped the iPhone 3G.

• In late 2008, the new iPod nano debuted. It's been reported it was Rubinstein's last major product decision at Apple.

• In mid-2009, Palm shipped the Palm Pre and their new Web OS. Within weeks, Rubinstein became the CEO of Palm, Inc. Apple shipped the iPhone 3GS.
 
zombiedictator said:
http://hurvitz.org/blog/2008/06/apples-engineers-profit-center



Apple hired 2% of Palm's workforce away from them to make the iPhone.

"In his August 2007 communications with Jobs, Colligan said Apple had hired at least 2 percent of Palm’s workforce as the company developed the iPhone. Apple released the iPhone in June 2007."
Click to expand...

The data you cite came from GlassDoor.com (a factiod available by reading the link you gave), a site where employees can voluntarily submit their salaries. For the category of Engineer for Apple, as of today (your reference was over a year old, by the way), the average for a software engineer was $98,000 - based on 67 anecdotal submissions.

Your reference isn't only outdated, it's hardly conclusive of anything.

CFR again.:rolleyes:
 
peterlobl said:
ummm, can u imagine if companies made deals like this between each other all the time on a large scale??

indentured servitude, collusion, anti-trust etc!!

nice to see bosses, genius or not, decide where people choose to work or not!
Click to expand...

This isn't an act of nobility.

Palm didn't agree because it would not benefit them in any way at all.

That's a CEO looking out for his company's best interests; not for those of his employees.
 
dyler said:
The Web OS is not a great OS. It has major issues, it is slow and unresponsive, drains the battery, and is not a great device. Not to mention the horrible body it has, it is akin to the first generation Iphone not the 3gs, the 3gs blows it out of the water. Also 8gb of memory I had that on my first Iphone, if you think Palm will ever come close to the Iphone then you are living on another planet. Google with Android may be a different story if they can find someone to build a decent piece of hardware for it with a headphone jack!!! Also they need to get Android out with multi touch. But the hardware is key. Apple got out of Life Support because of Jobs coming back I don't see how Palm is going to come back if they keep building crappy devices.
Click to expand...

I think the webOS is excellent. I wouldn't call it any slower than my iPod Touch running 3.0. Web browsing is MUCH quicker on the Pre, using the same WiFi hotspot. Changing display orientation is MUCH quicker on the Pre. Overall, though, it is about as fast as my iTouch in most things. The battery gets me through the day, which is from what I hear how most smartphones are these days (including the iPhone 3G s).

I think the body is wonderful, especially the physical keyboard. I am one of those that just prefers a physical keyboard, not that the iPhone soft keyboard doesn't work well. I just like tactile keys. It's not as big as the iPhone, it fits perfectly in the hand, and works well.

You shouldn't say things and expect them to be gospel. Just because you don't particularly care for webOS (or live in a fool's paradise with Apple Stockholm syndrome, whichever the case may be) doesn't mean Palm is doomed or Palm is incapable of making nice hardware or software.
 
panamajack said:
They are in the State of California, home of both Palm and Apple. That's WHY Jobs would go out and request a gentlemen's agreement
Click to expand...

They are "supposedly" un-enforceable here in the State of California, but having worked here in CA for the last 10+ years in the tech sector, every company has one. Plus I have seen people break them, and let me explain how it plays out.

You join Company A, you sign a non-compete.

You leave Company A, and take a job with Company B.

Company A considers Company B to be similar, and thus determine you have broken your non-compete.

Company A files a law suit against you, and drags you through the courts. This ends up costing you, the employee (my friend blew over $50k in attorney fees fighting it) a lot of money to fight.

Company A also sends a letter to Company B.

Company B let's the employee go to avoid getting tied up in the mess.

So you may say their un-enforceable, what's it matter. The case was ultimately withdrawn (over 18 months later), he had long since lost his job with the Company he had joined, and was out over $50k in attorney fees which he never recovered.

So it doesn't need to be completely enforceable if the company can simply bully you. This is what happened to my friend. Gotta love the State of California, where Company's can use the Court System to basically bankrupt you whether or not they have a case against you.
 
Apple should kill Palm by introducing a CDMA iphone to Verizon and Sprint after the exclusive contract ends with AT&T. They can make up the 'shared revenue' they have with AT&T by profiting the handset costs on Verizon/Sprint.

Verizon / Sprint may not support Visual Voicemail but at least they will have tethering and/or MMS.
 
brofkand said:
Apple was on life support in the mid 90's and look at them now.
Click to expand...

More like Apple was on life support from 1989-2001.

I'm not bashing Apple...but they have changed their business model from selling computers (birth-2001) to selling consumer entertainment devices (2001-present with iPod, iPhone, iTunes). As a company, I'm wondering what else Apple will create/sell to survive the upcoming 5 years...sure, Apple is doing very well financially, but this could be yet Ride 5 on the Apple Financial Rollercoaster that happens every 6-10 years.

It would be nice if Apple put some serious thought back into their computer division...in regards to offering more of a selection for a wider audience of 6billion people on the planet...a better sub $1500 desktop that us techie folks can upgrade/modify rather than an all-in-1 unit (iMac) or Mini that requires a putty knife and painstaking work to upgrade/repair. A sweet $400-$500 netbook. A sub $1000 fully equipped desktop computer (iMacs are still way overpriced if you ask me...$1200 is crazy for mom and dad to buy a baseline machine...and don't reply that they should buy the Mini and all the a-la-carte options which essentially add up to ($900 for the Mini and $200 for a non-Apple monitor) $1100 anyway for a very low end Mac). The iPod has already saturated the market...I love my iPods...but they are pretty much a commodity right now and consumers are beginning to wonder if competing devices are better values...not just the Zune (which I would never buy simply because MS makes it) but Creative and Samung products as well as a handful of others. The iPhone seems to be a big market for Apple for years to come if they play their cards right...but will we see Apple, Inc. rename itself to Apple Telecom, Inc in 5 years?
 
gilkisson said:
1) Reference that Apple employees are at "low, cheap salaries" please.
2) If Palm is indeed paying top dollar, they are doing so on much lower sales and margins than Apple. How long can they continue to do so?
3) What is usually the largest line item in any P&L statement?
Click to expand...

From personal experience: Apple R&D salaries are competitive, but not top-dollar. They know and capitalize on the fact that Apple is an awesome company to work for, with great benefits (in the HR sense and in the company store) and industry cachet. Having Apple on your resume is a great foot in the door of pretty much any Silicon Valley company. Apple is one of the few companies to realize that an extra $5k spent on benefits for your employee will save you from having to desperately offer him $10k more to stay next year.

In short: Apple gets top-5% employees with top-25% salaries.

Much the same could be said for Google, although the benefits there materialize differently.

(Note I have no idea how this trickles down to Retail employees ... I suspect that there is a similar middling-pay-for-top-talent dynamic there, but if you're in retail you're used to being pissed on every day so I don't know how Apple really compares to any other brand name outlet.)
 
twoodcc said:
i'm really starting to not like palm at all
Click to expand...

As an employee of a company who'd like to have my choice of employers when I leave this one: this news makes me like Palm a lot more.

Sorry, non-compete agreements are highly anti-employee, and, IMHO, immoral. They are impossible to verify compliance to without enlisting the help of a lawyer, and are completely intended to keep employees from ever leaving a company (by making job searches impossible without leaving the software industry altogether).

So, yeah: good for Ed!
 
jettredmont said:
Sorry, non-compete agreements are highly anti-employee, and, IMHO, immoral. They are impossible to verify compliance to without enlisting the help of a lawyer, and are completely intended to keep employees from ever leaving a company (by making job searches impossible without leaving the software industry altogether).
Click to expand...

Good luck getting a job in the tech industry (even in California where their "supposedly" illegal) without signing one. I only had 1 job where I didn't have one (it was a startup, I was hired by the CTO over lunch, with literally a contract written on my own notepad I had brought), and they tried to get me to sign one when I quit by holding my last pay check. A quick phone call from my attorney cleared that right up.
 
jettredmont said:
(Note I have no idea how this trickles down to Retail employees ... I suspect that there is a similar middling-pay-for-top-talent dynamic there, but if you're in retail you're used to being pissed on every day so I don't know how Apple really compares to any other brand name outlet.)
Click to expand...

The retail employee discount is terrible and they treat their employees like criminals. I can say this from personal experience.

iphones4evry1 said:
Competition is a good thing...
...but stealing someone else's technology (by stealing knowledgeable employees) is not.
Click to expand...

Ummmm, who else are you supposed to hire? Non-knowledgeable employees?

"Well, you have no experience in the field. No references, no hands on learning...you'd be perfect for the job!"
 
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