Palm Reportedly Rejected Jobs' Proposal Not to Poach Each Others' Employees

[Master Chief]

There's way too much noise in this thread – too many people acting like 15 year old Apple fan boys – and better visit MacNoise.com next time

Now, the only news worthy line in Connie Guglielmo's story is this one: "Apple hasn’t sued Palm over the Pre’s technology". I wonder why. Don't you?

And if I was Palm's CEO... then I would not have signed anything from a competitor.

 

[kdarling]

I don't have any problem with Jobs suggesting a deal with Palm to prevent poaching, likely through the use of head-hunters, ...

To not actively lure away employees is one thing.

But Apple wanted Palm to secretly agree to not hire each other's employees -- at ALL. Even if someone voluntarily left one company and applied at the other.

In response, Palm said "Your proposal that we agree that neither company will hire the other's employees, regardless of the individual's desires, is not only wrong, it is likely illegal."

 

[*LTD*]

And it appears Apple couldn't have done it without Palm employee's and Palm patents. It goes both ways here. Both sides used each other for leverage. Apple just had the capital and means to do it faster.

But then again to you Apple is perfect.

They do have quite a habit of getting closer to that than anyone else, for some strange reason. Must be dumb luck, or a series of accidents.

 

[DougB541]

Every thread...every single one on Mac Rumors no matter the topic, usually turns into a Steve Jobs/Apple circle jerk.

Just an observation.

 

[DMann]

So what. One of them came out on top and is staying there.

Apple innovated a superior implementation of the smartphone before anyone else. Seems to be quite a habit for them.

This seems to be the major difference here. Considering that the Newton gave Palm a jumpstart back in 1989, they've had over 17 years to come up with something highly revolutionary. In this arena, innovation+implementation seem to go the distance - others will follow.

 

[*LTD*]

Every thread...every single one on Mac Rumors no matter the topic, usually turns into a Steve Jobs/Apple circle jerk.

Just an observation.

Is there are reason not to have it turn into that?

We're a happy and generally satisfied bunch. Not my fault that the average PC user doesn't know what that means.

We have it easy. I mean, it's like 99.95 of the rest of the industry (in this case mobile) is still asleep at the wheel like they were over two years ago. What gives?? It's really starting to look like there's no talent outside of Cupertino. Or at least no one else is bothering to use any.

 

[inkswamp]

Puh-lease. Seriously.

There are enough headhunters, recruiters, HR reps, friends of friends, online forums, etc. to get somewhat "inside" information on a company such as benefits packages and salary compensation. Please don't tell us that Palm had some super duper secret access...you've been watching too many spy movies if you think that's the case.

Palm had someone on their side who would likely have personal connections to a lot of Apple's top talent, would know their history with the company in great detail and would very likely be aware of their personal aspirations as well as any grievances they might have with the company and would also be welcome to contact them personally via phone or in person. You seriously would compare the info and connections that person would have to that of a headhunter or HR rep? I suspect you don't fully understand the difference or are being intentionally obtuse.

 

[DMann]

Palm had someone on their side who would likely have personal connections to a lot of Apple's top talent, would know their history with the company in great detail and would very likely be aware of their personal aspirations as well as any grievances they might have with the company and would also be welcome to contact them personally via phone or in person. You seriously would compare the info and connections that person would have to that of a headhunter or HR rep? I suspect you don't fully understand the difference or are being intentionally obtuse.

Furthermore, for a company which thrives by keeping its cards exceedingly close to the chest, it is all the more important for them to try to avert a potentially substantial compromise such as this. Most other scenarios with, and for, other corporations and their employees do not apply here - this is a unique set of conditions and circumstances for a one-of-a-kind company - an entirely different league altogether.

 

[Master Chief]

Palm had someone on their side who would likely have personal connections to a lot of Apple's top talent, would know their history with the company in great detail and would very likely be aware of their personal aspirations as well as any grievances they might have with the company and would also be welcome to contact them personally via phone or in person...

In short: Mr. Rubinstein used his network (capabilities) and these now former Apple employees must have good memories, or else they would not have jumped ship. Right?

That somehow shows that Mr. Rubinstein didn't leave Apple to relax and enjoy life, but that he might have some sort of grievances himself. Why else would he choose Palm over Apple? Because he like the thrill? Or is Palm really paying that much?

Whatever it is... I can understand that Mr. Jobs wasn't all that pleased, and that he tried to stop it. That's part his job after all.

 

[mccldwll]

To not actively lure away employees is one thing.

But Apple wanted Palm to secretly agree to not hire each other's employees -- at ALL. Even if someone voluntarily left one company and applied at the other.

Oh really?? And where exactly is there a communication from Apple to that effect? Curious how Guglielmo quotes Palm's own communication but doesn't have the one to which Palm is allegedly responding. If this story wasn't written by someone as honest as the day is long, who works for an organization which always tells the truth and never tries to move markets, especially during OE week, then I might wonder about motive. Do you keep copies of all the correspondence you send, but not what you receive? And once again, no matter how many times you ask for my assistance, I'm not interested in helping you rob the corner store and beating up that little old lady behind the counter. That would be illegal.

 

[mccldwll]

Today's internet "news" is driven by the need to make money by getting as many readers as possible. Controversy sells.."

On another subject-- 8/17/09

 

[kdarling]

Oh really?? And where exactly is there a communication from Apple to that effect?

Fair enough. Even though this is macRUMORs and it's assumed that every headline should be automatically taken with a huge dose of salt, you are free to reiterate that the information comes from a former employee of only one of the two companies.

Which doesn't automatically negate it. Perhaps he felt that it's okay to release his own mail, but not the other person's. And the chance of Apple acknowledging the incident is pretty small, unless the FTC gets involved because of potential anti-competitive legalities.

If you search the net and news, no one disbelieves the claim. For better or worse, it smacks of something Jobs would do. And Apple hasn't denied it, which is a pretty big clue. Personally, I think he released the information because of the current investigations into Silicon Valley hiring practices, and wanted to cover his own butt.

In any case, the point of my post was that the topic is not simple non-compete agreements, or disallowing headhunter poaching. The topic is secretly agreeing to not hire at all. That's what should be debated as to whether it happened or is legal.

Cheers!

 

[seedster2]

Palm had someone on their side who would likely have personal connections to a lot of Apple's top talent, would know their history with the company in great detail and would very likely be aware of their personal aspirations as well as any grievances they might have with the company and would also be welcome to contact them personally via phone or in person. You seriously would compare the info and connections that person would have to that of a headhunter or HR rep? I suspect you don't fully understand the difference or are being intentionally obtuse.

I think you may be creating a unique scenario that is actually quite common that can easily said about any high ranked executive who chooses to leave for a competitor. I've seen this kind of poaching happen frequently. It is up to the current employer to make your position too good to give up.
If Apple employees who you all consider to be the brightest in the industry decide to jump ship, it suggests they like where palm is headed or Apple isnt doing enough to keep them there.

Furthermore, for a company which thrives by keeping its cards exceedingly close to the chest, it is all the more important for them to try to avert a potentially substantial compromise such as this. Most other scenarios with, and for, other corporations and their employees do not apply here - this is a unique set of conditions and circumstances for a one-of-a-kind company - an entirely different league altogether.

Again this is not a unique set of circumstances. Apple is not the only corporation with trade secrets they need to protect. If so the Papermaster case would have never come up (what was your take on that matter?) If apple can enforce NDA's and have a gang of lawyers if they feel trade secrets were divulged. Otherwise if they hope to maintain their current model of secrecy they will just have to change policies internally. This is the case everywhere else. Im sure other CEO's attempt the same moves steve is alleged to have communicated, but please dont try to justify it by saying Apple has to do this.


What Steve is trying to do here is stopping the bleeding of talent. There is no reason for Palm to agree to a deal like this. Especially considering Apple was siphoning some of their talent according to the Palm CEO. Either way practices like the one described is terrible for the employee.

All the discussion regarding itunes and Palm's demise are tertiary - simply trying to dodge an uncomfortable topic.

 

[mccldwll]

Fair enough. Even though this is macRUMORs and it's assumed that every headline should be automatically taken with a huge dose of salt, you are free to reiterate that the information comes from a former employee of only one of the two companies.

Which doesn't automatically negate it. Perhaps he felt that it's okay to release his own mail, but not the other person's. And the chance of Apple acknowledging the incident is pretty small, unless the FTC gets involved because of potential anti-competitive legalities.

If you search the net and news, no one disbelieves the claim. For better or worse, it smacks of something Jobs would do. And Apple hasn't denied it, which is a pretty big clue. Personally, I think he released the information because of the current investigations into Silicon Valley hiring practices, and wanted to cover his own butt.

In any case, the point of my post was that the topic is not simple non-compete agreements, or disallowing headhunter poaching. The topic is secretly agreeing to not hire at all. That's what should be debated as to whether it happened or is legal.

Cheers!

Darling,
You're flat out wrong. Guglielmo reviewed several pieces of correspondence and quoted (out of context, I'm sure) from one of aapl's. This was released on Bloomberg and picked up by Blodget and every other rumor monger on the internet. Its purpose was to impact aapl's stock price during OE week. The fact that people on the internet don't disbelieve it says absolutely nothing. Many people on the internet also believe the earth is flat and that Obama was born in Kenya. Lots of crooks and idiots on the internet. And the fact that aapl didn't deny it is not a clue at all if you know anything about aapl. Aapl never comments, unless a writing purports to be from aapl (fraudulent internal memo), and it's not. And you're the one who's trying to make the subject about whether or not there was an attempt to agree not to hire at all, as opposed to poaching, though that's certainly the rumor Guglielmo is trying to start. And it's ridiculous to debate whether something is legal or not, unless it's a lawyers' forum AND all the facts are in evidence. It's really a shame people can't see what's really going on here. But nice try.

 

[xIGmanIx]

Is there are reason not to have it turn into that?

We're a happy and generally satisfied bunch. Not my fault that the average PC user doesn't know what that means.

We have it easy. I mean, it's like 99.95 of the rest of the industry (in this case mobile) is still asleep at the wheel like they were over two years ago. What gives?? It's really starting to look like there's no talent outside of Cupertino. Or at least no one else is bothering to use any.

I think this is subjective at best, however that is off topic.

I find it odd that apple thought to even ask such a thing. Its not like they are partners, they are rival companies competing in the same space. i can understand not poaching, but to assume not to hire the other is absurd. my company is a partner with another company, and we have a "managers" agreement to not poach, however, if an employee decides to apply, its the right thing to do to make the manager aware.

 

[mccldwll]

I find it odd that apple thought to even ask such a thing.

Try going to the next logical thought, which is: "I find it odd that apple would ever ask what Connie Guglielmo tries to portray apple as having asked." Does it really make sense that apple asked a self-damaging question and that Palm, its competitor, did not retain a copy of that damaging question, but did retain a self-serving copy of the answer? Well, does it, Gman????

 

[xIGmanIx]

Try going to the next logical thought, which is: "I find it odd that apple would ever ask what Connie Guglielmo tries to portray apple as having asked." Does it really make sense that apple asked a self-damaging question and that Palm, its competitor, did not retain a copy of that damaging question, but did retain a self-serving copy of the answer? Well, does it, Gman????

well, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities for jobs to ask that. However, unless it is an official press release and input from both companies is provided, i guess we can only take it for what its worth

 

[mccldwll]

well, it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities for jobs to ask that. However, unless it is an official press release and input from both companies is provided, i guess we can only take it for what its worth

Anything is possible.
I'm not defending apple and jobs. Obviously there were angry communications in 2007 re: poaching talent. It's just that it's unclear exactly what was said and how it was said. However, what is clear is that bottomfeeders like Guglielmo and Bloomberg pushed this crap immediately before options expiration, very likely with the intent of impacting the price of aapl stock and options, and/or drowning out more important news. This may be a rumor site, but people here need to learn to critically question rumors such as this and not accept them as gospel BEFORE taking off on a discussion of whether the rumored act was bad or not.

 

[clevin]

but people here need to learn to critically question rumors such as this and not accept them as gospel BEFORE taking off on a discussion of whether the rumored act was bad or not.

are you kidding? this is macrumors.com, and any DOA patents ever made by apple can generates hundreds of posts. Just why only positive rumors about apple can be discussed? why negative ones can not?

Also, the fact shouldn't be lost that Apple hired 2% of Palm's employee in the running up of first iPhone launch. And the fact the iPhone itself is still a single tasking, gigantic app launcher, extraordinary similar to Treo 600, doesn't it?

DOJ is investigating, we can sure all shut up and wait, or say whatever they think.

the statement that "SJ is control freak" is beyond discussion. btw

 

[DELLsFan]

Palm...I think they should join Apple whilst they can. "If you can't beat them (which they can't)..."...

I actually think if Apple bought Palm out, that would be a good thing ... for Palm.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

They do have quite a habit of getting closer to that than anyone else, for some strange reason. Must be dumb luck, or a series of accidents.

You act like Apple invented everything is has made. Hate to tell you, the only thing innovative at Apple is their ability to gobble up smaller innovative companies and rebrand them