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Originally posted by MrMacman
What are you talking about, look at CPU -- jag owns
Memory -- Jag owns
Open GL -- jag again

That is what you use most of IMO.

Disk speed increase is nice tho.


I agree on the differences though there is a marked improvement in disk performance a 38% improvement alone. Also there was another major improvement in another system test that is by far the most complained about performance issue (drumroll please) User Interface. The user Interface improved by 49% that's huge!! Because of these two improvements pretty much alone this gave the whole system an overall score improvement of 28%. That's like going from the singe 800 G4 being tested to near the results of a single 1GHz G4. That's really impresive. Also remember this is all from an early prerelease. Expect things to improve dramatically.


MoparShaha you stated that you felt the underlying changes in 10.1 to 10.2 was greater then what they are doing to 10.3. I just have to let you know that this is incorrect. I'm not trying to be rude it really is a good thing that the truth is otherwise. From what I have heard the difference between 10.3 and 10.2 is much closer to the difference between 10.0 and 10.2. The underlying changes being made in 10.3 are huge there is nearly nothing that hasn't be improved, streamlined, or optimized in some way. Also they are making a huge number of changes to the system GUI and improving the overall useability drastically. The features that were gone over at the keynote and can be reviewed at the website are just the tip of the iceberg. As I understand it there is much much too come and there was either just too much to pack into a keynote or a lot of the changes just weren't ready for prime time. All in all it is actually pretty amazing that they are getting done what they are doing in the time they have alloted. Expect good things very good things. Too all of you saying $129 is too much. Well once you see it in action and hear everyone raving about it you won't be able to dig up the money fast enough. Also for educational buyers the prices for Jaguar is only $69. So go find a student that's willing to buy it for you. I expect the discount will probably be the same for Panther.
 
Re: Re: Any readers here with a preview copy?

Originally posted by nosaj56
Text clippings can now be copied and pasted! (I'm running Panther.)

Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: Any readers here with a preview copy?

Originally posted by inkswamp
Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)

I agree. The difference in time is huge. On one hand you open the clipping and copy and then paste, done. The other hand you open textedit (which is in my dock for this reason) drag and drop the clipping on to the blank document then select all and copy and then paste. The difference is huge. I hate to do this but thank you Apple for giving me another feature back that you took away. They took away spring loaded folders and they finally gave it back. They are going to give us back text clipping copying. Now all I want back is the click and a half magnifying glass that let you surf through folders like spring loaded folders just without dragging something.
 
Re: Re: Re: Any readers here with a preview copy?

Originally posted by inkswamp
Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)

Heh, I feel the same, the list of moans and whines against OSX just gets shorter and shorter; most of the features of Panther (Open/Save dialogs, Mail/UI speed, Labels, Network Browser) are straight from my gripe list! $129 - or its equivalent in Euros - seems like a bargain to me.

Mike.
 
All these great new features (innovations) look a lot like Windows. I'd rather just have tile and cascade for window management, but whatever.

I'm happy these things are being incorproated into OS X. But I don't think I'm going to buy Windows functionality in OS X for $129 so soon after purchasing a new machine with Jaguar. I'm just not going to do it. I may have to wait until I get a new machine.

Hopefully there will be a $49 upgrade.
 
Ahhh... Panther...

I'm very excited for panther.. though like someone asked: what are the min. or preferred system requirements. I'm trying to milk the most out of my 400mhz G3 iMac DV until the 15 inch PowerBook G5 comes out (i know, it's awhile), so any performance boost is gladly welcomed. anybody have panther? post all the screenshots (somewhere).

thanks
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Looks very impressive

Originally posted by primalman
They alreadt used it for OS X 10.0 I believe. It's in the keynote. Watch it.

Then how about Mac OS-X Domestic House Kitty? What part of meow don't you understand? :)
 
Originally posted by MorganX

Hopefully there will be a $49 upgrade.

Yes, I agree 49.00 seems reasonable. Alternatively, go to the Apple Store Online, and buy from the student store( I payed 69.00 for 10.2.). I am not in college anymore, yet I still use the student discount--hell, I am a student for life!:D
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
I agree on the differences though there is a marked improvement in disk performance a 38% improvement alone. Also there was another major improvement in another system test that is by far the most complained about performance issue (drumroll please) User Interface. The user Interface improved by 49% that's huge!! Because of these two improvements pretty much alone this gave the whole system an overall score improvement of 28%. That's like going from the singe 800 G4 being tested to near the results of a single 1GHz G4. That's really impresive. Also remember this is all from an early prerelease. Expect things to improve dramatically.
I have seen the difference, but even in beta form I don't understand why the lack of preformance in other crucial areas.

Eh, we will have to see.
 
would like to see more benchmarks from those who have it (using XBench) - especially on Dual Machines (before and after)...

my biggest question is - with the dev preview, do ALL the apps run okay in it? Photoshop, etc...? found an app that doesn't start up?
 
Re: Re: Re: Looks very impressive

Originally posted by nosaj56
I can fast switch to another user with iChat running and switch back and to iChat and it's back just how i left it.

yes, I know. if you have fast user switching enabled and one is running iChat, then you switch to the other user, iChat still runs on the other and you still recieve all the messages. iTunes still plays, everything still runs. you just get a new desktop to clutter up!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Looks very impressive

Originally posted by primalman
They alreadt used it for OS X 10.0 I believe. It's in the keynote. Watch it.
yep, and Puma was 10.1, so dont go suggesting it either. they could however... use Ocelot... or if they wanna ditch the cat thing... go with Albacore :D

Ocelot would be my choice of their next revision. 10.4

and man am I glad to have labels back.

the System Profiler (they dropped the Apple in front of it) has been redone. more detail now on AGP graphics cards

the tabs like the ones in preferences panes and stuff are totally different now, but I like them better. they redid many things, and I'm really happy with them. you can securely empty the trash with 1, 7, or 35 pass secure empty. very nice, but takes longer. I think 7 is government standard... could be wrong though.

just click the close button (red button inright corner) of the system prefs and it closes the whole sys prefs app thingy. only app it does this on though, so dont freak. Also, Safari scroling looks smoother for some reason, I'm not the only one that has noticed this either.

the UI performance improvement is just huge. that alone almost makes the upgrade worth it. it's a nice upgrade and you people bitching about it really just confuse me. Apple doesn't owe it to you. Apple gave you iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and Safari, yet you want to complain about a pretty inexpensive OS upgrade that is really worth it? be realistic here folks. it's worth every penny.
 
Where would an average shmo like me get ahold of a copy of panther? Is there any FTP's set up to DL it off...or someone willing to send it over AIM?...just wondering

jimimarley@cox.net
 
I guess I was hoping for a few more features

I think many of the features are wonderful in panther, however, I was hoping that there'd be a few more. I was hoping for a re-intro to tabbed finder windows... dock improvements... piles and with the new finder, does that mean no more columns views? And if so why can't they add that for flexiblity for people who like different work flows? another question... are there any performance issues on older G4s? Or will it be as fast or faster than jag is now?
 
Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
...you people bitching about it really just confuse me. Apple doesn't owe it to you. Apple gave you iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and Safari, yet you want to complain about a pretty inexpensive OS upgrade that is really worth it? be realistic here folks. it's worth every penny.
I couldn't agree more. If you're using OSX every single day, all day long, then you'd stand in line to pay $129 for all the improvements. But if your only using your Mac for a couple hours a day to surf the Net, answer email, play games and write the occassional Word document, then you wouldn't benefit greatly from the upgrade.

In which case you complainers probably haven't seen Panther at work beyond looking at a few screenshots on a website or reading a bullet point list of improvements... and never even bothered to watch the WWDC presentation.

So quit your griping and ask mom and dad for the money.
 
Re: Ahhh... Panther...

Originally posted by michaelrjohnson
I'm very excited for panther.. though like someone asked: what are the min. or preferred system requirements. I'm trying to milk the most out of my 400mhz G3 iMac DV until the 15 inch PowerBook G5 comes out (i know, it's awhile), so any performance boost is gladly welcomed. anybody have panther? post all the screenshots (somewhere).

thanks

Well simply put Panther will run faster then Jaguar on any system that you can curretnly run Jaguar on so in the realm of system requirements in affect you don't need quite the system you did before but I wouldn't push it.
 
Originally posted by cubist
Could someone explain the Expose feature in a brief sentence that makes sense?

Load this quictime interactive video.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/expose.html#

Click on the F keys at the bottom and watch the windows zoom out and place themselves next to each other so you can see what each window is. When you hold your cursor over them a box appears with a title for the window so you know what they are. Once click on the window zooms all the windows back to there original size with the window you clicked on as the top most active window so you can work in it. The different F keys do different things like hiding all the windows, hiding all the windows except the ones from the app you are working in and zooming them out and organizing them so you can see them and the final one zooms all the windows out so you can see them. You can also set hot corners of the screen if you prefer instead or in addition to the F keys so that when you drag your mouse to one or another corner of the screen you get the same action the F keys performed.
 
Re: I guess I was hoping for a few more features

Originally posted by movabi
and with the new finder, does that mean no more columns views?

columns view is still there. so are both of the others. They have taken nothihng away form the finder, except they have switched it up a bit... takes quite a bit of getting use to.
 
Originally posted by ryanmil1
Where would an average shmo like me get ahold of a copy of panther? Is there any FTP's set up to DL it off...or someone willing to send it over AIM?...just wondering

jimimarley@cox.net

I don't know what your experience is with beta OSs but let me give you a tip. From what I have heard Panther is very buggy and is definitely not appropriate for you main system where data loss is not acceptable. Also since you would be pirating the system you would be comitting a crime. If for some reason you could not get more recent additions of the preview you would be stuck with the one you get and would have to perform a complete clean install to get back to 10.2 or even to move to the final version of 10.3. In other words there is typically no upgrade path.
 
yes yes...I know. That is why I would put it on my old ass Imac that doesn't get used for anything but screwing around...which is exactly what I would be doing
 
Originally posted by ryanmil1
yes yes...I know. That is why I would put it on my old ass Imac that doesn't get used for anything but screwing around...which is exactly what I would be doing

Are you running Jaguar on it currently? I would think that would be the only requirement. If you really want to get it I would look into one of the peer to peer programs for the Mac I've been told it's not hard to get Panther if one wants it.
 
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