Parental Control App Developers Urge Apple to Make Screen Time APIs Available for Third-Party Apps

[delhifox]

So, they want Apple to create APIs that give developers unprecedented access to a users device and how they use it?

Not gonna happen. Apple doesn’t even give developers access to your phone call log or text messages, and they think Apple will allow this?

They are happy to give your health data(with permission), whats the issue with opening up API? Let the best designed app win here? Also opening up API will make Apple compete with them - something which they claim right but not in reality.
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I know what an API does.

MDM gives developers "unprecedented access". These developers were using MDM. Do you think they'll be happy with restricted APIs from Apple that offer a very limited subset of what they were used to getting before?

For example, I mentioned the phone log or text messages. Apple doesn't allow developers access to these areas because of the potential for abuse. One of the selling features of Qustodio (one of the companies who filed a complaint with the EU) is the ability to monitor calls and messages. That ability will never exist for developers.

Clearly you don't know much about MDM. No MDM gives "unprecedented access" to anyone. Not even when the device is is under supervised mode. Apple made sure of this. NO app is allowed to look into text or call history. Period. Qustodio's feature was limited to Android, google play version doesn't even allow this anymore.

Without implementing an MDMish solution its not possible to implement any app control(limit/block, etc) solution. Apple has blocked this without making their screen time API available to developers.. this is just bad business practice.

 

[gmarm]

How about APIs for setting default browser, mail client, music, notes app???

It has been a decade already!

 

[honglong1976]

As a parent, I don't give smartphones and tablets to my little kids. That's parental control in action.

I am a parent and I restrict access. I also use the iPad with my son. I am a parent, that's control.

These apps are great for lazy parents who just leave their child with an iPad for hours at a time, sometimes all day (I know many that do this).

 

[gnasher729]

Apple should have given APIs for developers instead of doing this. I mean I don't use ScreenTime, but developers have vested time into their products people enjoy using. Sooner or later Apple is going to get a lot of heat for this type of behavior.

_After_ deciding whether apps should be given access at all (and there is a lot of potential for abuse, for example if you manage to lay your hands on your husbands/wives/girlfriends/boyfriends phone for a few minutes), it is a matter of priority: How much work is it, how many users will benefit, and how many users would benefit from other changes?

 

[Kabeyun]

And people can do whatever they want to respond to Apple's self-selfing business practices, such as buying 30% fewer iPhones vs last year.

Where did you get that data? Not from Apple, since they don’t report unit sales. You can’t possibly have made it up, so please share your source.

 

[gnasher729]

The disparity between the analysts's 30% unit drop estimate vs Apple's reported 17% revenue drop implies a shift toward higher ASPs, which in turn obviously would mean the premium phones are selling in strong numbers whereas the lower-end phones are not.

There is also a trend that people are changing from buying a $600 phone every two years to buying a $1000 phone every three years. When that happens, it should be obvious that unit sales are dropping, while revenue per year grows. And for Apple, what counts is the revenue, not the unit sales. And the number of iPhone users, which wouldn't be affected by this change at all.

 

[dilbert99]

So, they want Apple to create APIs that give developers unprecedented access to a users device and how they use it?

Not gonna happen. Apple doesn’t even give developers access to your phone call log or text messages, and they think Apple will allow this?

No they want a level playing field.
Parents want choice to use what apps they want to use.
Apple as typical wants to be dictator, judge, jury and executioner.

 

[Kabeyun]

These apps are great for lazy parents who just leave their child with an iPad for hours at a time, sometimes all day (I know many that do this).

That’s not the only kind of parent for whom these apps can be useful, nor the only kind of child.

 

[gnasher729]

MR (Joe), did Apple really say that? If so, did you or anyone think to challenge it?

Yes, they did, and nobody is challenging it because it is an absolute fact.

 

[Heineken]

I am a parent and I restrict access. I also use the iPad with my son. I am a parent, that's control.

These apps are great for lazy parents who just leave their child with an iPad for hours at a time, sometimes all day (I know many that do this).

I know. In my opinion it’s child abuse.

 

[BootsWalking]

There is also a trend that people are changing from buying a $600 phone every two years to buying a $1000 phone every three years. When that happens, it should be obvious that unit sales are dropping, while revenue per year grows. And for Apple, what counts is the revenue, not the unit sales. And the number of iPhone users, which wouldn't be affected by this change at all.

Unit sales are important because they drive potential service revenue. And Apple's market share dropped, so the number of iPhone owners relative to total Smartphone owners did change (dropped).
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Where did you get that data? Not from Apple, since they don’t report unit sales. You can’t possibly have made it up, so please share your source.

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-36-million-iphones-shipped-q1-2019/

 

[Gutwrench]

Yes, they did, and nobody is challenging it because it is an absolute fact.

If Apple actually said that then Enterprise users ought to have questions.

 

[AutomaticApple]

I want to monitor each and every text message to avoid abuse.

Do you want to monitor every step he takes too? Maybe even monitor every time he breathes?
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it’s child abuse.

Mentally?

 

[PickUrPoison]

If Apple actually said that then Enterprise users ought to have questions.

I think enterprises that use MDM already know what it gives them.

 

[Krizoitz]

Apple should have given APIs for developers instead of doing this. I mean I don't use ScreenTime, but developers have vested time into their products people enjoy using. Sooner or later Apple is going to get a lot of heat for this type of behavior.

No, Apple shouldn’t give 3rd party apps access to the same internal APIs it’s own apps use, that would be a massive security hole.

Apple MIGHT be able to give some/similar abilities through APIs to developers, but everyone who assumes it will be easy/won’t involve considering the security implications had clearly never spent any time developing real software (or alternatively is very very bad at it). I certainly think it would be fine for Apple to consider that, but depending on the demand for these types of apps it may or may not be worth it.

What Apple should be doing (and I hope they are) is investing more money/resources in the app review process to try and find ways to catch apps that are using features like MDM in non-approved ways sooner. And developers who were using such functionality in non-approved ways shouldn’t be complaint, they should be thanking their lucky stars Apple didn’t just shut them all down and ban them from the App Store to begin with. They had absolutely NO business using MDM, none. It was clearly a violation of the terms of the developer agreement.

 

[Gutwrench]

I think enterprises that use MDM already know what it gives them.

If Apple actually said what MR (Joe) claimed then Apple should have the same privacy and security concern for consumer-focused enterprise apps using MDM. Or explain why they don’t. I’d like to better understand that aspect.

 

[Breaking Good]

As a parent, I don't give smartphones and tablets to my little kids. That's parental control in action.

How do you define "little"? Do you define a 12 or 13 year old as little? Plenty of 12 year olds have smartphones these days. They are increasing becoming a necessity in today's society. I have one relative who told me that his children have had to use their smartphones in class to take a test when they didn't have enough computers to go around. Elementary schoold children are routinely using iPads and Chromebooks in class to do work.

If you are not teaching your children to responsibly use technology you may find that they are quickly left behind their peers.

 

[PickUrPoison]

If Apple actually said what MR (Joe) claimed then Apple should have the same privacy and security concern for consumer-focused enterprise apps using MDM. Or explain why they don’t. I’d like to better understand that aspect.

According to Apple “MDM gives a third party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.”

When that third party is an enterprise who’s able to exercise that control and access over a device used by their own employee, Apple is OK with that—that’s why they created MDM in the first place.

But when that third party is an app vendor who’s able to exercise that control and access over a device used by a member of the general public, such as your kids, Apple is most definitely not OK with that.

That’s my understanding anyway.

PS There’s no need to speculate as to whether MR (Joe) is mischaracterizing Apple’s stance on this. There are links in the article back to the source. For the record, Apple did state they have privacy and security concerns when an app meant for use within an enterprise is instead used by a consumer-focused app vendor on a customer device.

 

[NufSaid]

Apple is often slow to the game but implementation is often very well done. Screentime 1.0 was a very good start I even run it on myself to monitor and shut off apps at night.

I don't mind them going slow and then working on the API - taking time sure beats exploding phones.

 

[RedTomato]

I wish Apple would employ programmers / software designers who actually have children to code / design the Parental Control / ScreenTime software.

Superficially, they look nice. They work for a few minutes of playing around. But as a parent with kids who tries to use them in the real world, they fall into a shuddering mess.

For example: Parental Controls has always been buggy on OSX and causes various obscure bugs if you try to use it, and struggles to deal with browsers getting bits of code from all over the web, leading to an endless series of requests to allow this that or the other website.

ScreenTime can’t differentiate between weekends, school term and holiday time, when you might want to have different rules. Reprogramming the ruleset every couple of months, across different children becomes a pain.

Giving kids a bit of one-off extra time in the evening is a pain. Sometimes you want different rule sets for:

• school hours
• out-with-friends time
• homework time (research)
• golden time (self-assigned goals)
• chill time (games)
• bedtime (lockdown)

This isn’t possible. There are many different types of children at different ages and different parenting scenarios and Screentime doesn't cover them.

The list goes on, and different parents will want different things. At the moment, it’s like someone described to to Apple coders what they thought parents wanted. It hasn’t been dogfooded enough.

 

[Kabeyun]

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/30/apple-36-million-iphones-shipped-q1-2019/

Thanks for that. But I take issue with the idea that the drop, if accurate (it may not be), is all due to “self-serving business practices” (meaning being perceived as expensive?). It would seem to be due to price undercutting by budget competitors and Chinese market protectionism.

 

[Gutwrench]

According to Apple “MDM gives a third party control and access over a device and its most sensitive information including user location, app use, email accounts, camera permissions, and browsing history.”

When that third party is an enterprise who’s able to exercise that control and access over a device used by their own employee, Apple is OK with that—that’s why they created MDM in the first place.

But when that third party is an app vendor who’s able to exercise that control and access over a device used by a member of the general public, such as your kids, Apple is most definitely not OK with that.

That’s my understanding anyway.

Enterprise MDM apps are being commercially marketed. I’d like to understand why Apple does not feel they are a privacy and security concern too.

PS There’s no need to speculate as to whether MR (Joe) is mid-characterizing Apple’s stance on this. There are links in the article back to the source. For the record, Apple did state they have privacy and security concerns when an app meant for use within an enterprise is instead used by a consumer-focused app vendor on a customer device.

Please read my point again. I’m not speculating anything. I’m wondering if MR (Joe) had the presence of mind to ask Apple if they have the same privacy and security concerns for a commercially marketed app for enterprise use.

 

[Jakewilk]

Does nobody see the hypocrisy here? Cupertino CREATES that MDM API in the first place... why, to allow companies to keep uber tight control over their employees phones. Suppose because the company actually buys those phones. So they are saying that human beings have NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY when they use a company supplied phone. So some devs realize that using this stuff CAN give parents good access to restricting what their kids are doing at the same time they are buying said kids these kinds of mobile devices. So then they close these guys down, shouting about privacy concerns?? Excuse me, we are talking about parents of little Johnny & Janet, 8 and 11 years old. So it's OK to violate grown folks privacy, but not children's? I am not buying any of this crap, it's all about the only app doing this belongs to them in the first place.

Yes, it is okay for a company to monitor their employees’ company device usage, but it is not okay for developers to monitor the usage of a child of unaware parents. You missed the point of this decision by apple; it has nothing to do with parents monitoring children, but developers having unprecedented access to the information of these children.

 

[Heineken]

How do you define "little"? Do you define a 12 or 13 year old as little? Plenty of 12 year olds have smartphones these days. They are increasing becoming a necessity in today's society. I have one relative who told me that his children have had to use their smartphones in class to take a test when they didn't have enough computers to go around. Elementary schoold children are routinely using iPads and Chromebooks in class to do work.

If you are not teaching your children to responsibly use technology you may find that they are quickly left behind their peers.

Today’s society is increasingly becoming more and more rotten. For me it’s not an argument. If you must know mine are 8 and 6 years old.

 

[mtngoatjoe]

I wish Apple would employ programmers / software designers who actually have children to code / design the Parental Control / ScreenTime software.

Superficially, they look nice. They work for a few minutes of playing around. But as a parent with kids who tries to use them in the real world, they fall into a shuddering mess.

For example: Parental Controls has always been buggy on OSX and causes various obscure bugs if you try to use it, and struggles to deal with browsers getting bits of code from all over the web, leading to an endless series of requests to allow this that or the other website.

ScreenTime can’t differentiate between weekends, school term and holiday time, when you might want to have different rules. Reprogramming the ruleset every couple of months, across different children becomes a pain.

Giving kids a bit of one-off extra time in the evening is a pain. Sometimes you want different rule sets for:

• school hours
• out-with-friends time
• homework time (research)
• golden time (self-assigned goals)
• chill time (games)
• bedtime (lockdown)

This isn’t possible. There are many different types of children at different ages and different parenting scenarios and Screentime doesn't cover them.

The list goes on, and different parents will want different things. At the moment, it’s like someone described to to Apple coders what they thought parents wanted. It hasn’t been dogfooded enough.

Most of what you want is already possible. It would be nice to set restrictions by blocks of time, but giving extra time in the evening is easy. And it's also easy to customize the app limits and down time for specific days of the week. And I haven't noticed any bugs with the OS version we're on.