Passbook = NFC in new iPhone

[kdarling]

What kind of security would be available for NFC functionality? Would the person making a purchase need to input a PIN or password prior to the purchase going through? If so, there is the potential for it to be more secure than a physical credit card.

Apparently, just as with credit cards, below a certain amount no PIN is required at many stores. Above that, you have to enter one.

In my experience, it seems that there are fewer measures being taken to confirm that a person using a credit card is the owner of that card. As an example, I recently found out that my credit card company is flagging all purchases at Walmart over a certain dollar amount as potential fraud. The reason? Walmart isn't doing a very good job of checking the ID of a person paying with a credit card.

No kidding. Earlier this year one of my credit card bills had an extra $400 of purchases from a Walmart far away. Of course, they took it off my bill as soon as I called and explained it wasn't me. Obviously my CC number was cloned at a restaurant or gas station. This could not have happened so easily with an NFC-only account, because the thieves (hopefully) wouldn't know my PIN.

I keep saying that the real wallet killer will be when we can carry our driver licenses on our phones as well.

 

[CyBeRino]

I have a friend who just writes CHECK ID in the signature spot on the card. It's kind of inconvenient to pull put your ID everytime, but it does prevent theft.

It's also invalid, and the credit card companies require merchants to decline the card in such a case. If the card is unsigned, they require the card holder sign it on the spot before the merchant can process it.


(That is, unless he writes that following his actual signature. In that case it's fine.)

 

[b166er]

The card bearer really just needs to have the permission of the cardholder, although surely many businesses would still choose not to accept it.

How would anyone know who has permission? That's ridiculous. Any and every credit card company can and will issue a second card for the account with the name of your kid/spouse/etc on it. If you're too lazy/ignorant to do that than I can't help you. In times as this where credit card theft is a way some people make a living people should just know better. I've seen it all when it comes to scammers or just malicious use of cards. The couple gong through divorce- one has the others card and has a shopping spree- stuff like that. See it daily. Then a month later it's my fault for not verifying the name to the person.

If it was ok for anyone to use the card they wouldn't bother putting a name on it. Same goes for checks. You have to prove you are you. If that's too hard for you cash is still an option. Not YOU personally- the collective you.

 

[reclusive46]

Call me old fashioned but I think you should have to sign your name when using a credit card. That receipt is a legal statement of liability to pay the company that is issuing you credit. I think a big part of the credit card debt problem is a result from these kinds of lax policies. Given, the CC companies let it all slide because in the end it usually means more money for them.

I can't tell you how many people I encounter on a daily basis that don't understand that your name has to be on the card you are trying to use.

Like I said I'm not opposed to NFC, I know people want it. It's just not something I will use.

That sounds real secure lol Like anybody checks the signature. We used to have it in the UK but most European countries now use Chip and Pin, which is far more secure.

 

[sawah]

Call me old fashioned but I think you should have to sign your name when using a credit card. That receipt is a legal statement of liability to pay the company that is issuing you credit. I think a big part of the credit card debt problem is a result from these kinds of lax policies. Given, the CC companies let it all slide because in the end it usually means more money for them.

I can't tell you how many people I encounter on a daily basis that don't understand that your name has to be on the card you are trying to use.

Like I said I'm not opposed to NFC, I know people want it. It's just not something I will use.

I am first going to say that I don't necessarily disagree with you. I work at a gas station in a small town and people use their wife's or parent's credit cards and checks all the time. No one ever signs their credit cards either, whether local people or not. It says specifically in our handbook not to take unsigned cards and they aren't allowed to sign them in front of us. If we did that, we would never take another credit card because no one ever does what they are supposed to.
When I didn't have a debit card I used my husbands card all the time. My name wasn't on the card, but it is on the account.
When you signed up for a credit card, you agreed to pay for whatever you charged to it. Why should you have to sign for it every time?

----------

It's also invalid, and the credit card companies require merchants to decline the card in such a case. If the card is unsigned, they require the card holder sign it on the spot before the merchant can process it.


(That is, unless he writes that following his actual signature. In that case it's fine.)

This is incorrect, at least in my business. You may not sign your card in front of me. If it's not signed we aren't supposed to take it. We do anyways, but those are supposed to be the rules.

 

[MACis122]

http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/13/phil-schiller-app-store-is-more-democratic-than-traditional-retail-passbook-is-not-a-direct-payment-service/

In this article it debunks nfc for passbook

 

[0m3ga]

As insecure and ripe with fraud as iTunes / App store is, I can't find one positive with this system. I will never allow Apple to have another one of my cards in their system, for anything. Prepaid credit cards or app store type cards is the only way for me, regardless if it is Android or Apple.

 

[MVallee]

NFC is rolling out pretty fast IMO. I live in a small town (112,000 people) in Canada and NFC is everywhere in my town. All the gas stations have PayPass, my supermarket has both PayPass and Visa Paywave and now they are starting to roll out Interac Flash (for debit payments). My bank just sent me a new debit card with NFC.

I think Passbook looks like a good idea, but its clear that Apple is setting this up as a wallet replacement. If they don't do it, it would be too big of a missed opportunity. Why replace some of the loyalty cards in your wallet but not replace the truly useful cards (debit/credit)?

 

[NewbieCanada]

I have a friend who just writes CHECK ID in the signature spot on the card. It's kind of inconvenient to pull put your ID everytime, but it does prevent theft.

Believe me, if his experience is anything like mine was (Canada has since gone to chip cards), he's pulling out the ID for less than 1 in 10 transactions!

But when I did have to do it, well the ID is in my wallet, just like my card, so no biggy pulling it out when asked.

The hard part was dealing with the very occasional monumentally stupid cashier who couldn't figure it out and would have to call over their only marginally smarter manager. "It means ASK ME FOR MY PHOTO ID. I WROTE IT THERE SO YOU CAN LOOK AT MY PICTURE, THEN ME, THEN THE PICTURE AGAIN AND THE MATCHING NAMES AND SEE THAT I'M THE LEGAL OWNER OF THE CARD."

Kind of pointless anyway. I've been the victim of card fraud several times and so have most people I know. None of us have ever actually had our cards lost or stolen. It's counterfeit cards that are the actual problem these days. If my card's ever really lost, I'd call the bank and it's cancelled instantly.

 

[mbell1975]

Seriously? The new iPhone is just barely going to be getting 4G. NFC? LOL. Will be years before the iPhone ever sees it.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

The tech/infrastructure for NFC just isn't there.

That is a chicken-egg argument..

That's because when Apple does it, everyone will jump on board.

Quoted for truth.

Seriously? The new iPhone is just barely going to be getting 4G. NFC? LOL. Will be years before the iPhone ever sees it.

What does 4G have to do with NFC?

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Count on it. Companies will be lining up by the hundreds to support an Apple NFC network.

Apple = Money

Android = LOL. Want proof...Google Wallet...

This is 100% truth. The iPhone is as mainstream as it gets. Even though there's more phones in the public with Android OS, the iPhone is still 100x more of a household name than any Android phone. I bet most of everyones's parents in this thread doesn't know what Android or W7 is. But they know what an iPhone is. Even with RIM being close to a damn penny stock, the Blackberry is still a bigger household name than Android.

What kind of security would be available for NFC functionality? Would the person making a purchase need to input a PIN or password prior to the purchase going through? If so, there is the potential for it to be more secure than a physical credit card.

In my experience, it seems that there are fewer measures being taken to confirm that a person using a credit card is the owner of that card. As an example, I recently found out that my credit card company is flagging all purchases at Walmart over a certain dollar amount as potential fraud. The reason? Walmart isn't doing a very good job of checking the ID of a person paying with a credit card.

I can't remember the last time I been asked for ID. Even when I make purchases over a thousand, I still don't get asked for ID. 75% of the time, a signature isn't even required. About 10 years ago it was completely differ. Maybe they curbed security measures to compete with the ease of online purchases. That's the only excuse I can think of.

 

[mbell1975]

That is a chicken-egg argument..

Quoted for truth.

What does 4G have to do with NFC?

Apple is always so far behind on tech they don't even have 4G yet. NFC is pretty new tech, it will be at least another year before Apple implements it.

 

[macingman]

Apple is always so far behind on tech they don't even have 4G yet. NFC is pretty new tech, it will be at least another year before Apple implements it.

Most countries the iPhone is sold in don't even have 4G or there isn't a significant amount of coverage.

Just because apple takes a while to introduce some technology doesn't mean for all.

 

[mbell1975]

Most countries the iPhone is sold in don't even have 4G or there isn't a significant amount of coverage.

Just because apple takes a while to introduce some technology doesn't mean for all.

Thats absurd. Most countries don't have satellite, cable or HDTV either but that doesn't stop a company from selling hugh 60 inch HDTVs globally does it?

 

[jw12345678]

Nfc

My bank (here in the UK) has just sent me a sticker that attaches to the back of my phone which uses NFC. Now all I have to do is waive the phone over one of the terminals which bear the sign (a sideways apple wifi symbol) to pay for anything up to £20 without a pin or signature. The sticker doesn't have my name or even a full card number on it. Its called Paytag, and is being heavily pushed for the Olympics.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Thats absurd. Most countries don't have satellite, cable or HDTV either but that doesn't stop a company from selling hugh 60 inch HDTVs globally does it?

That's completely FALSE!!!! Only a small number are left in the dark. You need to do some serious research before posting. This goes for most of your posts.

 

[cynics]

Most countries the iPhone is sold in don't even have 4G or there isn't a significant amount of coverage.

Just because apple takes a while to introduce some technology doesn't mean for all.

What does country have to do with anything? There is a LTE version for the states and a non LTE version for countries without LTE, the way a lot of current LTE phones are. Plus having the tech doesn't require it's usage, ex. new iPad.

 

[macingman]

Thats absurd. Most countries don't have satellite, cable or HDTV either but that doesn't stop a company from selling hugh 60 inch HDTVs globally does it?

Actually most countries HDTV's are sold in do have cable and HDTV. Also every country has satellite because well its a satellite.

Seriously stop talking out of your ass.

 

[Rajani Isa]

I look at the 2-3 main places I would use NFC (groceries, target, home depot) and I don't see any existing NFC systems setup.

See this logo on any card readers? Usually the same one you'd swipe debit through if it's seperate than the credit card reader.

Then it is set up for NFC (at least one implementation.)

Home Depot does have it, along wiht 7-11s, etc. Jack In the Box even has an externally mounted one for the drive through in my experience.

How would anyone know who has permission? That's ridiculous. Any and every credit card company can and will issue a second card for the account with the name of your kid/spouse/etc on it.
[...]
If it was ok for anyone to use the card they wouldn't bother putting a name on it. Same goes for checks. You have to prove you are you. If that's too hard for you cash is still an option. Not YOU personally- the collective you.

First of all, it's not okay for "anyone" - just who the account holder(s) allow. Second of all, in part for the bit I quoted from you above, most places won't accept cards without matching names (note, where I work we do tend to make exceptions with business cards, but then also grab the user's ID info.)

But usually, yeah, Joe So-and-So gets told that unless she is can come in with ID, no he can't use Karen Whats-her-name's card, even if she is his fiancé/girlfriend/lifepartner.

Thats absurd. Most countries don't have satellite, cable or HDTV either but that doesn't stop a company from selling hugh 60 inch HDTVs globally does it?

A 60' HDTV without those things isn't necessarily useless. DVDs, etc, can take advantage of it's features.

4G support without a 4G network is.

 

[Gala]

Anyone else think this feature will be expanded greatly when the new iPhone comes out?

It's basically going to act as a virtual wallet, need to scan tickets? Use your iPhone's passbook with NFC. Buy groceries? Credit card in passbook. Checking into airport? Again use the passbook.

I thought WWDC was pretty underwhelming, but I think this feature means that the iPhone announcement will be a lot better and will have some pretty cool features.

Thoughts?

I remember reading this (link posted below) a while back and it seems to make a lot of sense. Especially now that Passbook will be released in the new update. Its an automatic update and all their previous devices already have it installed. Making this even an easier transition than only being limited to new phones. This is where NFC is stalling IMO right now because it's only in new devices and won't be largely incorporated by consumers for another few years (due to the fact that it takes most consumers don't get the top generation phones).

http://www.cultofmac.com/167758/why-apples-iwallet-wont-have-anything-to-do-with-nfc/

 

[Tilpots]

I keep saying that the real wallet killer will be when we can carry our driver licenses on our phones as well.

Agreed. Until we have legal IDs, we will still need our wallet. Passbook will be great NFC or not and will kick the can further down the line, but if we still need a physical ID, we still need something to put it in.

I really wish the US Government would institute a digital national ID program.

 

[Meanee]

I have a friend who just writes CHECK ID in the signature spot on the card. It's kind of inconvenient to pull put your ID everytime, but it does prevent theft.

And it never works.

I had "Check ID" for years. Maybe 3-4 times a year I get asked for ID.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Apple is always so far behind on tech they don't even have 4G yet.

Meh, I don't get all the 4G hype... But that is a personal matter.

NFC is pretty new tech, it will be at least another year before Apple implements it.

The basis of the tech is 30 years old, the consortium 8 years old, and the first NFC phone is 5 years old, so this is not really a new tech at all.

Heck, NFC is everywhere already! I've had a NFC card for university access for 7 years now, which is back when I started.

 

[Technarchy]

If the iPhone "5" supports NFC, it will be the new standard damn fast.

It will be everywhere overnight.