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So do I. Note, however, that Apple isn’t blocking access to the hardware, but rather just a specific use for it. They do allow 3rd party access for other uses of the NFC hardware, just not for payments. It still isn’t right.
I agree with Apple tbqh. I dont trust third parties especially PayPal with direct NFC chip access. I feel like companies should be forced to disclose they are using NFC directly to the user upon opening the app and that the user should have to opt into NFC use manually for that app.

PayPal is just looking at their narrow use case. They arent looking at the bigger security picture. The EU is getting way too involved in the creation of these devices.
 
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In my country, we have NFC eMoney cards where you can put funds to it and you can use it for contactless payments (usually for parking and highways). The local bank who publish the card has their banking app that can utilize the iphone NFC to read the balance and top up funds to the card.

As such, I don't think this kind of access is what these bozos are asking for, since it's possible already. It seems that they wanted access to the whole hardware so they can have their own individual "Apple pay like" payment system. I don't think that would be only accessing the NFC, but probably the secure enclave as well.

Yeah no.

In my country, we already solve all this drama with standardized QR code for payment. Simple, platform agnostic, contactless. No drama.
 
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The "Dithering" podcast touched on this today and I tend to be in agreement with Ben Thompson that it would be okay if Apple opened up the NFC API to third party payment options, but that Apple Wallet should not be forced to support other payment services.

So you could use PayPal or some other payment option via the iPhone's NFC, but PayPal could not be included in Apple Wallet.
Apple is not being forced to open Apple Wallet to other services. Apple is being forced allow access to the NFC chip in the phone so third party vendors can use tap to pay. Not to mention Apple was being dishonest when it said it was opening access to the NFC Chip with their new tap to pay on iPhone when it does not, since all transactions are facilitated thru the Apple Wallet.
 
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What right does the EU have - or any other body, for that matter - to dictate to a private company which parts of their products must be accessible to the public? Should the EU force car makers to provide public APIs to all vehicle functions and all sensors? Etc., etc.
Imagine if Ford decides to change the intake of the gas tank so you can fill your car up only at Ford approved gas station with the according gas nozzle? Any government should stop this nonsense. Or imagine apple not allowing any other camera app the access to the iPhones lenses? Why limit the choices of your customers?
 
Imagine if Ford decides to change the intake of the gas tank so you can fill your car up only at Ford approved gas station with the according gas nozzle?

You mean linke printer manufactures try to prevent users from using third party ink or car manufacturers prevent me from using OpenStreetmap in the build in navigation system. I have absolut no problem with this. I simply do not buy these printers and my next car will have Apple CarPlay and no building navigation system.

Users have the choice of buying Android and other phones. If enough users would decide, that a feature is important enough to change from the iPhone to other systems Apple would change its strategy.

I personally think, that the EU is the worst party to influence design decisions of these kind. And I do not want to use a separate, probably really bad app, for every credit card I use. But this would for sure happen, if every vendor could use this API as they want to.
 
Many payment processing system are already using QRC Codes. In other words using the display (output) and the camera (input) to read the transaction data (money, recipient …).

NFC component is just another input output. A more convenient one for the purpose. Apple is simply blocking its use on iOS to third parties to turn that convenience to an advantage for Apple Pay on top of selling the smartphone.

It’s applying innovation but leverage.
 
[...]

NFC component is just another input output. A more convenient one for the purpose. Apple is simply blocking its use on iOS to third parties to turn that convenience to an advantage for Apple Pay on top of selling the smartphone.

[...]
Yes, it's their smartphone, their software. Everyone wants access to Apples' platform on Apples dime and make money from Apple's hard work.
 
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Imagine if Ford decides to change the intake of the gas tank so you can fill your car up only at Ford approved gas station with the according gas nozzle? Any government should stop this nonsense. Or imagine apple not allowing any other camera app the access to the iPhones lenses? Why limit the choices of your customers?
This is not a car, not an electrical outlet, nor a food processing plant, where some standards should apply. While all companies have to follow current laws, mass produced products intended for consumer consumption in competing markets differentiate themselves by the features. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy the products. And if one doesn't like the features or doesn't thing the value to price ratio is right for them, move on. And if one believes the manufacturer is limiting the choices of customers, buy another product that doesn't. Really quite simple.
 
I have to side with PayPal on this, it is not really right that Apple added a hardware feature into the phone that only Apple applications can access and use. It is my device, I should have the choice in what tap to pay options that I can use with NFC.
You do have a choice. Go with Apple, and only use it for Apple Pay, or go buy another phone. Boom, choices.
 
This is not a car, not an electrical outlet, nor a food processing plant, where some standards should apply. While all companies have to follow current laws, mass produced products intended for consumer consumption in competing markets differentiate themselves by the features. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy the products. And if one doesn't like the features or doesn't thing the value to price ratio is right for them, move on. And if one believes the manufacturer is limiting the choices of customers, buy another product that doesn't. Really quite simple.

I appreciate that we will probably never really agree on this because we come from completely different perspectives. I simply don't believe that mobile phones are -- or at least will be -- just pieces of consumer electronics. They are increasingly the main or even the only way people access all sorts of things, from the mundane to the very essential. They connect people, they are how people increasingly buy goods and services, use services, do their banking etc etc. That's great, nothing wrong with that.

Because they are increasingly becoming so essential it's simply not desirable to enable any one company to use its position as hardware or software platform provider to privilege its own services over those of others. It's simply not healthy. Equally, there is no good (public policy) reason to expect people who might want to use a different payment provider than Apple Pay to have to change their entire ecosystem, nor is it likely that a lot of people would do so.

From the perspective of a market regulator it is therefore probably not very convincing to rely on consumer choices as the only vehicle to ensure effective competition in your jurisdiction. If you have an iPhone you are likely to use Apple Pay because that's your only option other than throwing out your iPhone (and potentially your Mac)?

Additionally and unrelated but related after all, a frequently heard argument is that competitors should simply create their own platform if they're not happy with Apple. This is even less convincing not just because there's probably not a lot of room next to iOS and Android, but more importantly because to suggest every service provider needs to create their own hardware platform because or in case the big platforms have shut them out in favour of their in-house services is ridiculous (not that you have made this suggestion here, but some have in one way or another).

All of this, of course, sucks for Apple who have created a very successful platform and now want to capitalise on this platform through other services they can push through it. That's understandable, but probably also undesirable in the broader picture even though individual customers may appreciate the coherent service Apple can provide them. Yet nobody has suggested that Apple would no longer be allowed to do that, just that Apple needs to compete on a level playing field with its services. They might still be better and customers might still choose them, I certainly would in a lot of cases, but we don't want Apple (or others) to corner certain markets by default.
 
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That is such a generic response for any criticism that anyone has for the iPhone. Moving platforms on a whim is not a valid option nor is it something that Apple would support.
It's been the platform since day one. Apple isn't surprising anybody. You knew this when you decided to go with Apple to begin with.
 
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It's been the platform since day one. Apple isn't surprising anybody. You knew this when you decided to go with Apple to begin with.
Incorrect, NFC was not an option when I started using the iPhone. I did not know that Apple was going to release a feature that was common in other smartphones and lock it down. Like I said, I use ApplePay and I would still use ApplePay given alternatives. I just don't like the fact that Apple has locked down the feature, I don't think that is fair.
 
They didn't release a feature and then lock it down. It was locked down from the time they introduced it. Again, you knew before you purchased the first iPhone with NFC that they would keep it for themselves only.
 
It's been the platform since day one. Apple isn't surprising anybody. You knew this when you decided to go with Apple to begin with.
I guess Apple also knew that countries are going to make rules and regulations that may not always benefit them. If not, they should have known. You, as an Apple consumer should also have known that Apple will follow the rule of the land before buying an iPhone, or did you think that Apple is a law unto itself? Why complain now? You can always start manufacturing a phone that suits your requirement instead of complaining that Apple is being disadvantaged.
 
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They didn't release a feature and then lock it down. It was locked down from the time they introduced it. Again, you knew before you purchased the first iPhone with NFC that they would keep it for themselves only.

Nice fictitious answer.
Personally I have owned one since the 2 and NFC was not till the 6. There was a lot of “awwwww” when it didn’t come out for the 5 and same when we saw the limitations of the 6. Apple has allowed more with each release but for whatever reason refuses to allow pay access.
 
Apples implementation of NFC credit unique. Apple processes their credit card as a debit purchase, requires a pin. Saves money. The pin aspect is the unique combination of iPhone, watch generating the pin automatically. More secure. Why Apple credit card does not activate the NFC on the physical card. One cannot use the physical card on Apple Pay because it processes as a credit card. No way to interact with the iPhone or watch to get the unique pin. More secure physical card. Same with some merchant’s transactions using Apple Pay. A enter pin pops up now and then. The merchant can force the the transaction to credit if their systems allows. With this unique extra security, Apple Pay is not the same as any other NFC implementation. Far more secure, using debit less expensive, and not open to everyone. There you have it.
 
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Americans whose only understanding of freedom is that businesses have the right to do whatever they want are so tiring to listen to.

Like you can’t ever articulate why being able to use different payments through NFC would ever be a bad thing for consumers, you’re just upset that someone else told poor little $2.6-trillion-market-cap Apple what to do.

If your take on a given subject is worrying about business freedom to be anti-consumer just spare us all and don’t post it.
 
I agree with Apple tbqh. I dont trust third parties especially PayPal with direct NFC chip access. I feel like companies should be forced to disclose they are using NFC directly to the user upon opening the app and that the user should have to opt into NFC use manually for that app.

Well before we can say we don’t trust 3rd parties with direct access to NFC, I think Apple should be required by the EU to elaborate on why they claim that opening up the NFC for payments would be a security risk. They always vaguely say it’s a security risk, but have never elaborated on why. Until they do, I don’t buy it.

On your suggestion of asking for user permission to access the NFC, it’s a good idea, but even that Apple refuses to do.
 
Apples implementation of NFC credit unique. Apple processes their credit card as a debit purchase, requires a pin. Saves money. The pin aspect is the unique combination of iPhone, watch generating the pin automatically. More secure. Why Apple credit card does not activate the NFC on the physical card. One cannot use the physical card on Apple Pay because it processes as a credit card. No way to interact with the iPhone or watch to get the unique pin. More secure physical card. Same with some merchant’s transactions using Apple Pay. A enter pin pops up now and then. The merchant can force the the transaction to credit if their systems allows. With this unique extra security, Apple Pay is not the same as any other NFC implementation. Far more secure, using debit less expensive, and not open to everyone. There you have it.

No we don’t have it. Nice explanation on Apple’s card. However, this shows no reason why NFC cannot be open for other pay systems on your iPhone.
 
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