OS Neutral PC over Mac or Console ?

[Washac]

I assume as games moves endlessly onward we as Mac users will either have to put up with what we have or move over to the Power PC gaming rigs or go console for our gaming needs.

It soon will not be that we can put up with what we have because games will eventually outgrow our Macs.

It sure looks like Apple does not care in any way about this, but then do they need to ?

Over to you.

 

[Superspeed500]

I could play all the games I liked to play on my 2010 MBP back in 2010 with Windows 7 installed on it. The Mac was one of the cheapest MBP 15" at the time and it had a discrete Nvidia Graphics card with 128 mb VRAM. It was priced at about 14 000 NOK.

Nowadays the cheapest MBP 15" costs 22 490 NOK without a proper graphics card! Thats 2 490 NOK more than I paid for a Windows gaming PC with 3TB HDD + 230GB SSD, i7-4790, GeForce GTX 980 and 16 GB of RAM!

Portable computers are more exspensive than desktop computers, yes, but I do belive that the current MBP lineup is a bit too exspensive. I prefer Windows/Linux desktops for gaming, but I do at the same time prefer Mac and OS X for video editing and day to day tasks.

It would therfor be awasome if Apple could create Macs with better graphics card, so I could play at least some higher end games on a Mac It seems to me that Apple have sort of jumped out of the gaming market :/

 

[Pakaku]

Apple does not care at all about computer gaming (iOS is another story) and their hardware isn't any good for the higher end games anyways. I don't expect that to ever change, if not get even worse. You would get better performance for the same price, or cheaper parts for the same performance, if you went PC instead of Mac. The only thing you miss out on is a nice-looking case (which I am still upset about since building my own PC recently)

So no, not unless you buy a classic Mac Pro and put it through an upgrade project. Which says a lot when a 'classic' product is more viable than a modern one. Also, chances are you're going to be running Windows if you went through with it, which you may not mind.

 

[erayser]

I game on PC, Xbox one, PS4, and use my NVidia Shield console to stream PC to TV. I play mostly multi-plat games on PC, and exclusives on the Consoles. I have no preference between PC and consoles.. But I would rather game on PC than on Macs. One reason is PC builds is one of my main hobbies... and like the fact I can upgrade and select the parts I want in my computer. My current PC gaming rig is going to get a big upgrade later this year. It's not for everyone... but I can't just use a computer. I have to be able to upgrade and build to enjoy it more. Nothing against Macs... and I would buy one for use in the house, but would never consider it for gaming.

 

[saturnotaku]

My PC is a gaming laptop that does double duty as a console when I want to play on the couch. The current generation of consoles has zero in the way of compelling exclusives.

 

[tdale]

From a gamer friend, PC is the way to go. Power, and features in a PC game. Console games have less in game features. But consoles costs 1/10 of a top end gaming PC. Mac? yeah, nah. Too expensive, and inflexible. You cant buy or upgrade power on Macs.

 

[AFEPPL]

Gaming on the mac is just a no no.

I don't game on the PC anymore, but clearly the hardware is always going to over take consoles - that said i'd always turn to my XBOX One for games.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I built myself a Skylake PC for the stuff that my 12 core Mac can't do. But then I found that the Skylake runs circles around the Mac and Windows 10's performance makes OSX look slow. So now I am always thinking I should sell my Mac because I barely turn it on. Love my iPad Pro and iPhone but...

 

[Huntn]

PC is first choice. If you travel and have an affinity for the MacOS, get a top end MBP (with the dedicated graphics) and put Boot Camp on it. It will server your gaming needs adequately and give you the MacOS while on the road. I highly reccommend it.

 

[saturnotaku]

PC is first choice. If you travel and have an affinity for the MacOS, get a top end MBP (with the dedicated graphics) and put Boot Camp on it. It will server your gaming needs adequately and give you the MacOS while on the road. I highly reccommend it.

If the current Retina MacBook Pro had a halfway decent GPU for the price, I would agree with you. There are plenty of thin and light notebooks out there for similar or less money that have way more powerful hardware. The price/value for running OS X relative to the hardware you're getting in a Mac is not there any more. Not to mention the fact that AMD is no longer officially supporting Boot Camp configurations in its GPU drivers, meaning that you have to rely on either outdated software or potentially unreliable/non-functional hacks.

 

[Huntn]

If the current Retina MacBook Pro had a halfway decent GPU for the price, I would agree with you. There are plenty of thin and light notebooks out there for similar or less money that have way more powerful hardware. The price/value for running OS X relative to the hardware you're getting in a Mac is not there any more. Not to mention the fact that AMD is no longer officially supporting Boot Camp configurations in its GPU drivers, meaning that you have to rely on either outdated software or potentially unreliable/non-functional hacks.

Don't take this as an argumentative reply, but... I thought it was Apple that supported Bootcamp. I value access to the MacOS and related software, gaming is a side note. Are there reports of Bootcamp no longer working? What third party software/hacks are you referencing?

 

[saturnotaku]

Don't take this as an argumentative reply, but... I thought it was Apple that supported Bootcamp. I value access to the MacOS and related software, gaming is a side note. Are there reports of Bootcamp no longer working? What third party software/hacks are you referencing?

You're conflating AMD's driver support with Boot Camp as a whole. They are two (mostly) separate things. Boot Camp is the framework Apple provides that allows Windows to be installed on its machines. As part of that framework, Apple provides a software package allows the hardware to work as if it were a native Windows PC. This includes the drivers for the chipset, SSD controller, sound card, WiFi, trackpad, keyboard, et al. They all provide the most basic functionality - getting Windows to recognize that the hardware exists so you get audio from the speakers, etc. Most of the these drivers are fine to get the system up and stay operational. The one exception is the GPU. While Apple provides a GPU driver for Boot Camp installations, they are often very old, and thus not well-optimized for recent games. Back when I would install Windows 7 on my 2011 MBP, the AMD driver Apple provided was at least a year out of date. Up until very recently, I could hop on to AMD's website and download the most current Radeon Mobility drivers that supported the hardware, so it was easy to remain current. Now, this is no longer the case as AMD says straight up in the release notes:

• This driver is not intended for use on AMD products running in Apple Boot Camp platforms. Users of these platforms should contact their manufacturer for driver support.

AMD recently released an updated driver for Windows 10 that will work on Boot Camp systems, however it is based on their old 15.xx core, rather than the newer, better performing 16.xx line. Windows 7/8.1 users are still stuck with an old driver from September 2015.

When I talk about 3rd-party driver hacks, I mean something like this. It requires messing with the .inf files and disabling driver signature enforcement on Windows - both of which will be well beyond the capacity of most users who may want to install Windows on their Macs just to play the new Doom or something.

 

[Huntn]

You're conflating AMD's driver support with Boot Camp as a whole. They are two (mostly) separate things. Boot Camp is the framework Apple provides that allows Windows to be installed on its machines. As part of that framework, Apple provides a software package allows the hardware to work as if it were a native Windows PC. This includes the drivers for the chipset, SSD controller, sound card, WiFi, trackpad, keyboard, et al. They all provide the most basic functionality - getting Windows to recognize that the hardware exists so you get audio from the speakers, etc. Most of the these drivers are fine to get the system up and stay operational. The one exception is the GPU. While Apple provides a GPU driver for Boot Camp installations, they are often very old, and thus not well-optimized for recent games. Back when I would install Windows 7 on my 2011 MBP, the AMD driver Apple provided was at least a year out of date. Up until very recently, I could hop on to AMD's website and download the most current Radeon Mobility drivers that supported the hardware, so it was easy to remain current. Now, this is no longer the case as AMD says straight up in the release notes:

• This driver is not intended for use on AMD products running in Apple Boot Camp platforms. Users of these platforms should contact their manufacturer for driver support.

AMD recently released an updated driver for Windows 10 that will work on Boot Camp systems, however it is based on their old 15.xx core, rather than the newer, better performing 16.xx line. Windows 7/8.1 users are still stuck with an old driver from September 2015.

When I talk about 3rd-party driver hacks, I mean something like this. It requires messing with the .inf files and disabling driver signature enforcement on Windows - both of which will be well beyond the capacity of most users who may want to install Windows on their Macs just to play the new Doom or something.

If Bootcamp is becoming less compatible with PC Gaming, this would concern me and effect my future Mac laptop choices, as in give up on serious gaming instead of spending $2400 on a Mac laptop.

Are the old drivers, for example Sept 2015, adversely effecting your game play? My 2011 MBP is getting long in the tooth now, so I don't play some of the newest games on it, like ARK:Survival Evolved and Fallout 4, but I use (just) the Apple provided drivers without issues. Maybe there are issues, but I've not run into them. I play World of Tanks and a variety of Steam games on my MBP, without any noticeable problems.

 

[Irishman]

Gaming on the mac is just a no no.

Then why am I able to do it??

 

[saturnotaku]

Are the old drivers, for example Sept 2015, adversely effecting your game play? My 2011 MBP is getting long in the tooth now, so I don't play some of the newest games on it, like ARK:Survival Evolved and Fallout 4, but I use (just) the Apple provided drivers without issues. Maybe there are issues, but I've not run into them. I play World of Tanks and a variety of Steam games on my MBP, without any noticeable problems.

That's the thing. My MacBook Pro was my only computer, and the combination of old hardware with poorer software support was hampering my ability to play newer games. Much of my need to have OS X was work related, but since I now have a job where that's not required, I was able to get a Windows-based notebook with a proper gaming-grade GPU for far less than what a MacBook Pro with dGPU would have cost. I would even have had enough money leftover to purchase a refurbished MacBook Air if for some reason I desperately wanted the OS X experience.

Speaking strictly about the MacBook Pro, its combination of a middling dGPU and AMD-imposed software restrictions, make it not a viable machine for anyone who wants to do even a small amount of AAA gaming.

 

[Huntn]

That's the thing. My MacBook Pro was my only computer, and the combination of old hardware with poorer software support was hampering my ability to play newer games. Much of my need to have OS X was work related, but since I now have a job where that's not required, I was able to get a Windows-based notebook with a proper gaming-grade GPU for far less than what a MacBook Pro with dGPU would have cost. I would even have had enough money leftover to purchase a refurbished MacBook Air if for some reason I desperately wanted the OS X experience.

Speaking strictly about the MacBook Pro, its combination of a middling dGPU and AMD-imposed software restrictions, make it not a viable machine for anyone who wants to do even a small amount of AAA gaming.

I'd have to research the new hardware, but this was definitely not true for my 2011 MBP in the first 3-4 years of it's existence. In fact in the role of hybrid Mac-PC Gaming machine, it was stellar. It's possible you are pickier than me.

 

[Pakaku]

Then why am I able to do it??

You can do it, it's just a compromise, and there are other solutions out there with better value for less money spent. I'll use my Macbook for OSX and run windows when I need a gaming maching in an emergency, but it doesn't come anywhere near close to how my desktop PC can perform.

 

[Plutonius]

I assume as games moves endlessly onward we as Mac users will either have to put up with what we have or move over to the Power PC gaming rigs or go console for our gaming needs.

It soon will not be that we can put up with what we have because games will eventually outgrow our Macs.

It sure looks like Apple does not care in any way about this, but then do they need to ?

Over to you.

Get a console.
[doublepost=1464742447][/doublepost]

I was able to get a Windows-based notebook

I would never get a laptop for gaming. Get a Windows based desktop if you want a Windows based system for gaming.

 

[Huntn]

You can do it, it's just a compromise, and there are other solutions out there with better value for less money spent. I'll use my Macbook for OSX and run windows when I need a gaming maching in an emergency, but it doesn't come anywhere near close to how my desktop PC can perform.

That's absolutely correct, the MacBook is limited, but we tend to hear a lot about how you can't game on a Mac, and that's simply not true, at least not true when I bought my last MBP (see signature). The key here is desire to run OSX, and traveling while playing PC gaming on one computer... MBP is the answer. Now I don't know how the new one is with the dedicated graphics, but the 2011 MBP was just fine for gaming.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Console slave or join the PC master race. I went console personally. games just a diversion and didn't see needing a midline pc that can be way over 1000 real quick and easy. Quite a few console games can offer coop play as well so got a second controller. Coop with my son for some modern day father son bonding lol.

cold hard fact is barring the indy game market not much is running ideally on macs these days and it will probably get worse. By ideally I mean not turning off every advance feature the game has. You pay for example to have the devs work some voodoo it magic with anti-aliasing (AA). this by and large the first thing you turn off on mac os games for performance reasons.


Latest offerings of games not indy based when bored see the streams for bootcamp play. Then find streams for PC or console. Make decision based on that. Find good streamers if you can, judge on actually good presentations.

I love my (usually) unity driven indy titles on mac os. But the great ones (very subjective I know...I can be picky about games, not as harsh as say Jim Sterling but if I were to pick a known reviewer who I'd be in agreement with more than half the time, it'd be him) are few and far between. this pure mac os running.

More AAA stuff...bootcamp imo has too many caveats. It works passably, but passably vague. You would have to decide if that works for you. Most recent buys have been for the xbone in my case to catch the new stuff. I stopped wanting to have to turn down, if not off, all the nice stuff the game had to look nice.

Watch dev interviews saying oh man, we spent weeks tweaking the textures in this game to wow you all. And there you are on a mac, going to options>graphics>advanced>textures>set for lowest setting they have to offer. You basically paid for work you cannot use. Not having performance go to hell at any rate.

 

[Washac]

Get a console.
[doublepost=1464742447][/doublepost]

I have already and have for years, I was just wondering what others thoughts were.

 

[Trusteft]

I was always more about the game than the platform.
One thing was certain though, I was never a fan of copy protection which later turned in what we now call DRM.

Apart from one time in the 80s, I have never gamed on an Apple computer. I am not against it, I just consider them work machines above all.
Same thing with my PC editing workhorse which I have never and will never install any games on it.
I didn't get a console till the early 2000s.

With Windows 10 more and more becoming the norm, and with me refusing to install it, I see a very clear path for me and video games for the future.
Use console games which don't require online connection. Use a PC running Linux for all PC games which have Linux support (direct or indirect). Hopefully they will increase in number.
Use a couple of older systems for older games which don't run on said Linux system.
Use GOG and other DRM-free sites to get said games.

If all fails and every single game in the future becomes DRM infested (consoles too) and Windows 10 required, then I will simply stop buying new games. I have a long list of thousands of video games over the years. I probably have enough to last me a lifetime. Hardware willing.

 

[Washac]

If all fails and every single game in the future becomes DRM infested (consoles too) and Windows 10 required, then I will simply stop buying new games. I have a long list of thousands of video games over the years. I probably have enough to last me a lifetime. Hardware willing.

Have to agree with this

 

[Irishman]

You can do it, it's just a compromise, and there are other solutions out there with better value for less money spent. I'll use my Macbook for OSX and run windows when I need a gaming maching in an emergency, but it doesn't come anywhere near close to how my desktop PC can perform.

You must be one hardcore gamer. I've never had a gaming emergency!

To be fair, most PCs out there have the same kinds of compromises. Very few PCs are geared toward pro-level, 60fps, ultra settings gaming.

 

[saturnotaku]

I'd have to research the new hardware, but this was definitely not true for my 2011 MBP in the first 3-4 years of it's existence. In fact in the role of hybrid Mac-PC Gaming machine, it was stellar. It's possible you are pickier than me.

Four years is an eternity in computing, and what was true at that time is not the case at present, at least in terms of how it relates to a dGPU-equipped MacBook Pro as a dual-boot gaming device. The 2011 MBP was the first system from Apple with a GPU that could game at least halfway decently.

Today, not so much. Compare the current MBP's R9 M370X to the GeForce GTX 960M that's available on notebooks that cost as little as $810.

I would never get a laptop for gaming. Get a Windows based desktop if you want a Windows based system for gaming.

And how exactly do you propose I take a desktop with me if I want to play games during downtime when I'm traveling on business?