OS Neutral PC over Mac or Console ?

[Huntn]

Four years is an eternity in computing, and what was true at that time is not the case at present, at least in terms of how it relates to a dGPU-equipped MacBook Pro as a dual-boot gaming device. The 2011 MBP was the first system from Apple with a GPU that could game at least halfway decently.

Today, not so much. Compare the current MBP's R9 M370X to the GeForce GTX 960M that's available on notebooks that cost as little as $810.

And how exactly do you propose I take a desktop with me if I want to play games during downtime when I'm traveling on business?

This might mean I'll be waiting for the rumored Mac gaming laptop, or my next Mac will be a Macbook and I'll give up serious gaming while traveling.

 

[gkarris]

I'm running a lot of older games and newer games on "low" on this 2 year old cheap $150 ASUS sub-note with Intel HD graphics so I don't see what's wrong with just booting into windows on a Mac...

Granted, there's a lot of games that are visually stunning that people may want a dedicated PC for - or maybe, depending on the game title, just get a console...

 

[saturnotaku]

I'm running a lot of older games and newer games on "low" on this 2 year old cheap $150 ASUS sub-note with Intel HD graphics so I don't see what's wrong with just booting into windows on a Mac...

Granted, there's a lot of games that are visually stunning that people may want a dedicated PC for - or maybe, depending on the game title, just get a console...

It's all a matter of perspective. I gamed perfectly well on my dual-boot MacBook Pro for the better part of 4 years. In the intervening time, Apple really didn't progress on the hardware front the way I expected them to. My system now has a GeForce GTX 980M, and to see current and past games running at 1080p and above with high to ultra details is something to behold. My old MacBook Pro could barely run Deus Ex: Human Revolution at 1680x1050 resolution and medium details in Windows (it was worse in OS X). With the 980M, I'm running at 2560x1440 with everything maxed, and it looks superb. As far as more current games, Doom (4) performs exceptionally well at 1440p and mostly high settings. Even Mirror's Edge Catalyst is the same way. I was expecting to have to run both these games at 1080p or lower.

With the weaksauce GPU that's in the current MacBook Pro, I doubt I'll be switching back to Apple any time soon. Unless they make nice with NVIDIA and put something like a GeForce GTX 1060M or better in their next-generation products.

 

[gkarris]

It's all a matter of perspective. I gamed perfectly well on my dual-boot MacBook Pro for the better part of 4 years. In the intervening time, Apple really didn't progress on the hardware front the way I expected them to. My system now has a GeForce GTX 980M, and to see current and past games running at 1080p and above with high to ultra details is something to behold. My old MacBook Pro could barely run Deus Ex: Human Revolution at 1680x1050 resolution and medium details in Windows (it was worse in OS X). With the 980M, I'm running at 2560x1440 with everything maxed, and it looks superb. As far as more current games, Doom (4) performs exceptionally well at 1440p and mostly high settings. Even Mirror's Edge Catalyst is the same way. I was expecting to have to run both these games at 1080p or lower.

With the weaksauce GPU that's in the current MacBook Pro, I doubt I'll be switching back to Apple any time soon. Unless they make nice with NVIDIA and put something like a GeForce GTX 1060M or better in their next-generation products.

I think that is kinda the point with Apple - it is the ultimate iLIFE computer that hooks up to your phone, tablet, and watch.

With hardcore gaming (which you seem to be) or even "budget computer" gaming (like my cheap Asus), Apple is a no-show.

It will work if you put the effort of dual-booting into Windows but I knew someone who did that for Microsoft Flight Sim and she was better off just getting X-Plane for Mac (and had to use "low" settings).

 

[xSinghx]

I think that is kinda the point with Apple - it is the ultimate iLIFE computer that hooks up to your phone, tablet, and watch.

Unfortunately that's not even really true anymore with much of the apple ecosystem being left to rot.

 

[Huntn]

Unfortunately that's not even really true anymore with much of the apple ecosystem being left to rot.

My dissapointment with Apple, that their once outstanding productivity software, has been in a long decline. Word processing is the perfect example, first AppleWorks, to Pages (less capabilities), and then Pages has been degraded, with more features being removed. I'm still using an old version of Pages, slowly gaining the will to transisition to an office product (Libre Office).

 

[Washac]

My dissapointment with Apple, that their once outstanding productivity software, has been in a long decline. Word processing is the perfect example, first AppleWorks, to Pages (less capabilities), and then Pages has been degraded, with more features being removed. I'm still using an old version of Pages, slowly gaining the will to transisition to an office product (Libre Office).

It has seemed to me over the years that Apple has just thinned everything down so your Imac or laptop just becomes a central connecting hub for your Iphones, Ipads and Ipods etc and sorry to say that since the sad demise of Mr Jobs this process has speeded up, I recall reading this years ago seems its coming true.

Look at the way the OS has gone over the years and that also speeded up after Mr Jobs Demise, makes your laptop/Imac look more and more like an Ipad/Iphone screen. Up to Leopard great stuff, after Leopard all down hill, my old 2009 Mac Pro may well be the last Apple Desktop I own

 

[Pakaku]

Macs are still okay for gaming, assuming you get the proper hardware. Being able to dual-boot into Windows softens the blow somewhat.

But the best hardware configuration is a Windows PC and a Nintendo console.

 

[blesscheese]

Wow, this thread has meandered a bit....Back to the original topic:

It used to be that consoles were very cheap compared to computers, and optimized to run graphics much better (remember how long it took for them to port Sonic the Hedgehog to a PC, and have it play at the same speed as the Genesis version?).

Nowadays, consoles are getting fairly expensive, and computers are getting really inexpensive, to the point that you could build a cheap gaming PC for about/close to the same price.

If you are a casual gamer, I would pick up a console...no need to build a PC, and if you can wait and buy a console later in its lifecycle, you can definitely save a bit of money.

If you are a hard core gamer, I would definitely buy a PC...here's an example, look at Skyrim Remastered...it is going to be free for PC users (if you have the game and all the DLC), because, as Bethesda noted, the PC users have had access already to all the top mods and graphics enhancements (with the unspoken bit being, they probably couldn't get PC users to pay for it anyway). But the console players will have to pay for it, since it had to be developed for a new system. If you are a casual gamer, you might not buy Skyrim anyway, but I think this speaks to the power of the PC & games.

Full disclosure...I have a PC and every Nintendo console from the last 25 years...the first party Nintendo stuff can't be beat! 95% of the games that come to consoles (Xbox and PSP) are also available for the PC, and the 5%, I don't really care about.

 

[Winni]

My PC is a gaming laptop that does double duty as a console when I want to play on the couch. The current generation of consoles has zero in the way of compelling exclusives.

Someone has not played Uncharted 4, it seems.

 

[saturnotaku]

Someone has not played Uncharted 4, it seems.

/yawn

First game was decent, second was OK, too, but would have been better without the shoehorned multiplayer. Couldn't be arsed to play the third.

I stand by my statement, but let's run with your premise. You've identified one game out of 100 or so that are PS4 exclusive and more than 600 that are multi-platform. Not a great percentage.

 

[xSinghx]

...my old 2009 Mac Pro may well be the last Apple Desktop I own

Sadly this is the same position I find myself in. The next MacPro really needs to be a home run or those that haven't already defected will find greater reason to. Apple's hubris in this respect reminds me of the position Nintendo was in during its 90's dominance, eventually ignoring what made it successful to the increasing alienation of its users. The SNES followed by the N64 is a bit like the 2010 Mac Pro to the 2013. If 7,1 gives us the next Gamecube well... goodbye.

 

[Oirectine]

Sadly this is the same position I find myself in. The next MacPro really needs to be a home run or those that haven't already defected will find greater reason to. Apple's hubris in this respect reminds me of the position Nintendo was in during its 90's dominance, eventually ignoring what made it successful to the increasing alienation of its users. The SNES followed by the N64 is a bit like the 2010 Mac Pro to the 2013. If 7,1 gives us the next Gamecube well... goodbye.

Huh, I actually loved the GameCube.

 

[chrisrosemusic1]

Mac for work, Win10 PC and a PS4 for play.

OSX has never been any good for gaming, and that's the way it'll stand. My £1350 PC tower outstrips even the highest end Mac Pro specs wise for 1/3 of the cost.

 

[Irishman]

OSX has never been any good for gaming, and that's the way it'll stand.

This comment stands out as being demonstrably false.

We have developers that port to macOS and Linux (I'm looking at you, Feral and Aspyr!). We have original PC and console developers who have defied industry and press perceptions of Apple (as being too small a market to write for and not worth the cost) and have made exceptional ports of their best games (Metro 2033 and Last Light Redux). I'm thinking of Flying Wild Hog with Shadow Warrior.

I reward these developers with my money, and have a great experience on my Mac. I know I'm not alone.

 

[gkarris]

This comment stands out as being demonstrably false.

We have developers that port to macOS and Linux (I'm looking at you, Feral and Aspyr!). We have original PC and console developers who have defied industry and press perceptions of Apple (as being too small a market to write for and not worth the cost) and have made exceptional ports of their best games (Metro 2033 and Last Light Redux). I'm thinking of Flying Wild Hog with Shadow Warrior.

I reward these developers with my money, and have a great experience on my Mac. I know I'm not alone.

The first game I got for my brand spanking new Bondi Blue iMac was Quake - and the disc had all three versions on it (PC, Mac, Linux).

Awesome goodnes...

 

[chrisrosemusic1]

This comment stands out as being demonstrably false.

We have developers that port to macOS and Linux (I'm looking at you, Feral and Aspyr!). We have original PC and console developers who have defied industry and press perceptions of Apple (as being too small a market to write for and not worth the cost) and have made exceptional ports of their best games (Metro 2033 and Last Light Redux). I'm thinking of Flying Wild Hog with Shadow Warrior.

I reward these developers with my money, and have a great experience on my Mac. I know I'm not alone.

If you like 3 year old windows ports for £40 then it's false.

And not forgetting a large amount of Macs don't have a dedicated GPU anymore. £1500 to play games on medium is not a gaming experience.

 

[Irishman]

And not forgetting a large amount of Macs don't have a dedicated GPU anymore. £1500 to play games on medium is not a gaming experience.

Sure it is. And it's the same experience that most PC owners have, too.

Everything set to ultra and 60 fps is not the only legitimate gaming experience. It's just the best one!

 

[saturnotaku]

have made exceptional ports of their best games (Metro 2033 and Last Light Redux).

If you think those ports are "exceptional," then your bar is set extremely low.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Hitman: Absolution, and Tomb Raider are light years better than those two games, yet their performance still pales in comparison to their Windows counterparts. I had to request a refund from Steam on the Metro Redux games because their performance on OS X was beyond abysmal.

And once you've started playing games at 60 fps and high/ultra settings at resolutions of 1080p and higher, it's awfully hard to accept anything less. If I were to do that, I'd spend $350 on a PS4 instead of $1500 on a Mac.

 

[Irishman]

And once you've started playing games at 60 fps and high/ultra settings at resolutions of 1080p and higher, it's awfully hard to accept anything less. If I were to do that, I'd spend $350 on a PS4 instead of $1500 on a Mac.

It's harder for you to accept anything less. Many of us do it quite easily and still have fun.

 

[xSinghx]

OSX has never been any good for gaming, and that's the way it'll stand. My £1350 PC tower outstrips even the highest end Mac Pro specs wise for 1/3 of the cost.

It's been good with bootcamp.

And mac pros are really all-around, work horse computers - or at least they were pre 2013. But you're right the OSX offerings are small and not really worthy of mention especially now that Aspyr is bloating up their games with their own Aspyr store on startup and not releasing GOTY editions on the App store (e.g. Civ V). While I play most games on the windows side I do like having one or two on OSX which I prefer to buy through the App Store since Steam is so awful on OSX. Plus I prefer the simplicity of just clicking an icon to start a game. Unfortunately Aspyr's mucking it up now.

And it's the same experience that most PC owners have, too.

No it's not - OSX gaming is an inferior one by any objective standard which is why most people that want the pc experience simply install bootcamp.

 

[Washac]

No it's not - OSX gaming is an inferior one by any objective standard which is why most people that want the pc experience simply install bootcamp.

Do you not also feel that Bootcamp maybe one of the main reasons why developers do not waste money making a native Mac version when their game can just be run under Bootcamp ?

 

[Irishman]

Do you not also feel that Bootcamp maybe one of the main reasons why developers do not waste money making a native Mac version when their game can just be run under Bootcamp ?

So much this. Creating Bootcamp was one of the most severe, self-inflicted wounds Apple inflicted on itself.

If it ever went away, that could be the first course change that shows Apple is really becoming serious about games.

 

[Washac]

So much this. Creating Bootcamp was one of the most severe, self-inflicted wounds Apple inflicted on itself.

If it ever went away, that could be the first course change that shows Apple is really becoming serious about games.

I really do not see it going now, well I suppose they could just drop it from future OS releases, and not support any longer. Thing is Apple have no interest in creating a really good games compatible alround machine/machines, it makes all its cash from its other devices and now, and is getting into the streaming market I read. I can in all honesty see the demise of Apples remaining desktops because all they are now are desk ornaments in reality, I sure would not want one.

We have to wake up and realize Apple has absolutely no interest in venturing into the all rounder or games machine market, it got close once I feel but has since moved away and is moving away fast.

Apple has to wake and smell the coffee as they say and get back to the old Mac Pro design but drag it into the future, so people can swap parts out put better parts in etc like the so called PC community do, that is why I bought a Mac Pro back in 2009. It is still going strong today, put in more memory updated the graphics card, added more hard disks etc, it is what 1000's of computer users and gamers do. WAKE UP APPLE there 1000's out here just waiting for you to do this, thiong is if you do not we will all be looking else where for our machine.

I cannot think who Apple think their desktop market is or are anymore.

This will be my last post in this thread, I feel it has all been said and as far as Apple creating a good games compatible machine, it's all over.

 

[antonis]

Bootcamp was a double-edged blade from the beginning. It actually dissolved many people's hesitations to switch from PC to Mac, as it played the role of the safety net for any application that would not work on the OS X side and/or virtualization. It also brought the Windows vast library of games to the Mac.

On the other hand, it worked as an alibi for Apple to ignore the OS X side of gaming. FWIW, though, I don't think things would be much different for Mac gaming if bootcamp was not available. After all, bootcamp or not, the required h/w is still missing.