PC user considering MBP looking for unbiased advice

[TuffLuffJimmy]

PC user considering MBP looking for unbiased advice

haha Then you've come to the wrong place. No matter how hard we try, we're going to spin some bias. The only unbiased thing is the specs of the machine, and of course we can tell you all sorts of wonderful things that Apple does with those specs that won't happen in Windows.

 

[chaosbunny]

Why not get a Windows desktop for gaming and a MacBook or previous generation mbp for trying OS X & mobility? Would cost about the same as a new high end mbp and give you more flexibility. You can get a previous generation 2,5 ghz mbp new with warranty for around 1300-1400 bucks. It will still play newer games but save you almost a grand. Plus if you don't like OS X you will be able to sell it without much loss. If you like it keep it for 2 years then sell it for a quad core mbp. Just a suggestion of course.

 

[ACiB708]

Macs are not about the numbers, they are about the eperience. People are, by default, a PC user, because Windows has 102% of the marketshare, they do not change their minds until they actually use a Mac. They are friendlier, there are no system problems with it, it just makes it easier, and I know you have probably read/heard it before, but it still won't be a 100& true until you try it yourself, you have the final choice, and if you do go for the MBP, congratulations, you'll be amazed. It's a real good OS, and it;s a great machine, an if your gonna do video editing give Final Cut a try.

Large post by the way.

P.S. I shall know Macs are great.

 

[macsmurf]

2. You can get desktop replacement + more portability by buying a MacBook and a large screen. You can attach up to 2560 x 1600 pixels screen to the new MacBook (1920 x 1200 with the old one). The graphics card on the MacBook is fine for non-serious gaming

I agree with Gnasher. Get a cheap 24" Dell screen, mouse + extra keyboard, and a Macbook.

I just bought my first macbook a couple of months ago. For me there is a hardware and a software argument for a macbook.

The hardware argument is that these days specs are not as important as they were 5 years ago. Most machines manufactured today can handle anything you throw at them (excluding games) with ample power to spare.

Also, there are other aspects that are just as important (if not more important) that the specs. Macbooks have a trackpad that actually works. I have never used a laptop before where the trackpad not only wasn't annoying, but actually was a pleasure to use. For other laptops I carried a mouse with me. Not so with the macbook.

The build quality is very good. No creaking when typing. Very quiet. In general, very well thought out. Even though people call the macbook a consumer laptop I find it an absolute pleasure to use and it definitely feels like a professional no-nonsens tool.

The software argument would be rather lengthy to write and specific to my needs so I won't go into that too much. Suffce to say that Apple put a lot of thought into the GUI and also incorporated a lot of well thought out software from BSD and the open-source world in general.

 

[wylie888]

update

Hello all,

Last night I went to my local apple store at the mall to try out the MBP (going to the mall to try out a computer was bizarre in itself) and thought I would share my findings. As I walked into the store the first thing I noticed was the abundance of sales people. I counted nearly 20, more than enough to help with people looking to buy a computer and those who had brought their computers in for troubleshooting (the guy next to me actually had two sales people helping him with his machine for nearly 30 minutes). I have never taken any of my systems to a Best Buy type store but know for a fact there are usually 2-3 people that can 'help' you with your computer if you do bring it in. From my perspective the knowledge of the sales people of their respective systems seemed to be about the same (I understand for most of these people it's a part time job and they're not computer engineers). This being said, there seemed to be a hierarchy of sorts at the apple store--the people in blue shirts seemed to be the ones to cater to casual users with simple questions/basic troubleshooting and the ones in red shirts seemed to be the real computer techs (mac god's? mac genius? I don't recall what they were called...)

Once I walked in i hopped right on to a 15'' MBP and started fiddling around. The first thing I noticed was that when I hit the maximize button on the web browser screen, it did not 'maximize' the way I expected. I know this seems minor, but it was a very distracting. This was actually the hardest thing for me to get passed while using the mbp. The next thing I noticed was that it seemed as though when I closed a program (clicked the red X) it looked as if it was just hidden while still running in the background. I asked the sales guy about it and he confirmed this--he then showed me the mac 'task manager' where I could shutdown the programs after I asked him about the programs in the background gobbling up RAM (my girlfriend assures me this is not a problem, she uses a 17'' 2.4ghz 2gb RAM mbp I believe) After that I clicked on the face icon (search? finder?) and was very impressed with its ease of use and accuracy--very impressed. On the OSX video at apple.com it showed this feature along with the 'preview' button--I tried this at the store and although the search feature worked great, the preview button was not working (most likely due to the fact that tons of people do unspeakable things to the poor display computers and mess them up) I look forward to seeing this feature in person as it looks quite useful. After that, I had the sales person demonstrate the touch pad. Obviously I had no idea what I was doing but I can see the value of some of the 'sweeping features'--I absolutely love the 2 finger scroll down feature--brilliant. With a little practice I'm sure I can adapt to the touch pad and use it with efficiency. I cannot speak much more about the actual operation of the computer because, well, I had no idea what I was doing! It's a weird experience to get on a computer and just feel completely lost but I suspect that will go away quite soon.

On the physical side of the mbp, it is very different from what I'm used to. In the many replies to this thread (thanks!) one of the main reasons people love the mbp is its lightweight and sleek style and to the contrary, they have disdain for pc laptops because they seem bulkier and not as 'sleek'. I have to admit, I have never been a fan of the mac's 'sleek' style--to me they look bland and they feel so light that I thought if I pressed too hard on the machine that it would break. The heavier more sturdy feeling of the PCs I've owned and used has always been a positive to me and not a negative. This of course has no bearing on the actual operation of the machine, although I felt that it was 'flimsy' I realize that it's just because I'm not used to it. I'm sure if I used this machine for a month and went back to a PC laptop I'd would prefer the lightweight 'sleek' styling of the mbp.

With that in mind, I realized that most of the things I did not like about the mbp were simply because it is not what I am used to and I am 100% sure that if I used the machine on a regular basis I would quickly adapt to it and prefer it over the heavier/thicker PC builds. There was nothing on the software operation side I noticed that would prevent me from using the mbp (I did notice some lag on the machine but I am pretty sure that like I said before, it is due to the fact that it is the display computer gunked up by countless programs and users like me clicking aimlessly while not knowing what they're doing--also, the mbp I was using only had a 5400 RPM HDD, not the 7200 RPM that I would get with mine)

With all that said, I believe the most difficult part of the pc to mac switch for me personally will be learning a new OS--most of the negative aspects of my experience with the mbp was due to my lack of knowledge of simple mac operation and the OS (for example, I had a web page open and wanted to open another one--I clicked the safari icon expecting another browser screen to appear and when it didn't I was not really sure what to do) It has taken me years to learn how to operate, learn and fix all the minute details with windows and it's a little daunting to think of having to learn an entirely new system (especially considering I couldn't open another browser screen!) It was kind of interesting when I got home and hopped back on my PC though--even after 30 minutes of using the mac, my windows XP felt a little bit old, bland, and clunky... not to mention I got a random runtime error--ugh...

So since all of you took the time to respond to my post I figured I'd take the time to update you on how my first mac test drive went. All in all I left the store leaning toward the ASUS but the more I thought about it I realized this was only because I was venturing into the unknown--change is always difficult. I re-watched the OSX video at apple.com and was pretty impressed at the features/ease of use of the system--now it's just a matter of me learning it and getting used to it. I will be using my girlfriend's mbp for the next couple of days and depending on how quickly I can pick up the new OS/mac functions there is a good chance I'll give the mbp a try for a few years.

By the way, the magnetic battery cable--RIDICULOUS! I don't know why every laptop doesn't use this, simply amazing. Thanks again for all your responses.

--Ryan

 

[dr. shdw]

Hello all,

Last night I went to my local apple store at the mall to try out the MBP (going to the mall to try out a computer was bizarre in itself) and thought I would share my findings. As I walked into the store the first thing I noticed was the abundance of sales people. I counted nearly 20, more than enough to help with people looking to buy a computer and those who had brought their computers in for troubleshooting (the guy next to me actually had two sales people helping him with his machine for nearly 30 minutes). I have never taken any of my systems to a Best Buy type store but know for a fact there are usually 2-3 people that can 'help' you with your computer if you do bring it in. From my perspective the knowledge of the sales people of their respective systems seemed to be about the same (I understand for most of these people it's a part time job and they're not computer engineers). This being said, there seemed to be a hierarchy of sorts at the apple store--the people in blue shirts seemed to be the ones to cater to casual users with simple questions/basic troubleshooting and the ones in red shirts seemed to be the real computer techs (mac god's? mac genius? I don't recall what they were called...)

Once I walked in i hopped right on to a 15'' MBP and started fiddling around. The first thing I noticed was that when I hit the maximize button on the web browser screen, it did not 'maximize' the way I expected. I know this seems minor, but it was a very distracting. This was actually the hardest thing for me to get passed while using the mbp. The next thing I noticed was that it seemed as though when I closed a program (clicked the red X) it looked as if it was just hidden while still running in the background. I asked the sales guy about it and he confirmed this--he then showed me the mac 'task manager' where I could shutdown the programs after I asked him about the programs in the background gobbling up RAM (my girlfriend assures me this is not a problem, she uses a 17'' 2.4ghz 2gb RAM mbp I believe) After that I clicked on the face icon (search? finder?) and was very impressed with its ease of use and accuracy--very impressed. On the OSX video at apple.com it showed this feature along with the 'preview' button--I tried this at the store and although the search feature worked great, the preview button was not working (most likely due to the fact that tons of people do unspeakable things to the poor display computers and mess them up) I look forward to seeing this feature in person as it looks quite useful. After that, I had the sales person demonstrate the touch pad. Obviously I had no idea what I was doing but I can see the value of some of the 'sweeping features'--I absolutely love the 2 finger scroll down feature--brilliant. With a little practice I'm sure I can adapt to the touch pad and use it with efficiency. I cannot speak much more about the actual operation of the computer because, well, I had no idea what I was doing! It's a weird experience to get on a computer and just feel completely lost but I suspect that will go away quite soon.

On the physical side of the mbp, it is very different from what I'm used to. In the many replies to this thread (thanks!) one of the main reasons people love the mbp is its lightweight and sleek style and to the contrary, they have disdain for pc laptops because they seem bulkier and not as 'sleek'. I have to admit, I have never been a fan of the mac's 'sleek' style--to me they look bland and they feel so light that I thought if I pressed too hard on the machine that it would break. The heavier more sturdy feeling of the PCs I've owned and used has always been a positive to me and not a negative. This of course has no bearing on the actual operation of the machine, although I felt that it was 'flimsy' I realize that it's just because I'm not used to it. I'm sure if I used this machine for a month and went back to a PC laptop I'd would prefer the lightweight 'sleek' styling of the mbp.

With that in mind, I realized that most of the things I did not like about the mbp were simply because it is not what I am used to and I am 100% sure that if I used the machine on a regular basis I would quickly adapt to it and prefer it over the heavier/thicker PC builds. There was nothing on the software operation side I noticed that would prevent me from using the mbp (I did notice some lag on the machine but I am pretty sure that like I said before, it is due to the fact that it is the display computer gunked up by countless programs and users like me clicking aimlessly while not knowing what they're doing--also, the mbp I was using only had a 5400 RPM HDD, not the 7200 RPM that I would get with mine)

With all that said, I believe the most difficult part of the pc to mac switch for me personally will be learning a new OS--most of the negative aspects of my experience with the mbp was due to my lack of knowledge of simple mac operation and the OS (for example, I had a web page open and wanted to open another one--I clicked the safari icon expecting another browser screen to appear and when it didn't I was not really sure what to do) It has taken me years to learn how to operate, learn and fix all the minute details with windows and it's a little daunting to think of having to learn an entirely new system (especially considering I couldn't open another browser screen!) It was kind of interesting when I got home and hopped back on my PC though--even after 30 minutes of using the mac, my windows XP felt a little bit old, bland, and clunky... not to mention I got a random runtime error--ugh...

So since all of you took the time to respond to my post I figured I'd take the time to update you on how my first mac test drive went. All in all I left the store leaning toward the ASUS but the more I thought about it I realized this was only because I was venturing into the unknown--change is always difficult. I re-watched the OSX video at apple.com and was pretty impressed at the features/ease of use of the system--now it's just a matter of me learning it and getting used to it. I will be using my girlfriend's mbp for the next couple of days and depending on how quickly I can pick up the new OS/mac functions there is a good chance I'll give the mbp a try for a few years.

By the way, the magnetic battery cable--RIDICULOUS! I don't know why every laptop doesn't use this, simply amazing. Thanks again for all your responses.

--Ryan

If you end up using FireFox, it maximizes to the screen fully, only Safari doesn't/handles it differently. Also I think the magsafe is a patent..probably, and use two finger scrolling is awesome! And yes, closing the red dot doesn't quit out of a program, but command-q does. Also try using tabs or command-n for a new window.

 

[macsmurf]

Hello all,
Once I walked in i hopped right on to a 15'' MBP and started fiddling around. The first thing I noticed was that when I hit the maximize button on the web browser screen, it did not 'maximize' the way I expected. I know this seems minor, but it was a very distracting.

Maximize is kinda weird. I never use it.

This was actually the hardest thing for me to get passed while using the mbp. The next thing I noticed was that it seemed as though when I closed a program (clicked the red X) it looked as if it was just hidden while still running in the background. I asked the sales guy about it and he confirmed this--he then showed me the mac 'task manager' where I could shutdown the programs after I asked him about the programs in the background gobbling up RAM (my girlfriend assures me this is not a problem, she uses a 17'' 2.4ghz 2gb RAM mbp I believe)

Yeah, coming from the windows world it is a bit hard to just let the programs run in the background. I stille tend to quit them if I'm not using them, so most of the time I only have a few running programs. However, having a lot of open programs running seem not to have any adverse effects, but old habits die hard I guess.

Keyboard shortcuts are extremely useful in OS X, as they are generally the same across applications so you can get by with learning a few and then you can use them in practically any program. For example, to quit an application you would press cmd+Q.

Actually, keyboard shortcuts are a major selling point for me. I never bothered to learn them in windows because it seems every application have their own.

After that I clicked on the face icon (search? finder?) and was very impressed with its ease of use and accuracy--very impressed. On the OSX video at apple.com it showed this feature along with the 'preview' button--I tried this at the store and although the search feature worked great, the preview button was not working (most likely due to the fact that tons of people do unspeakable things to the poor display computers and mess them up) I look forward to seeing this feature in person as it looks quite useful.

Spotlight (cmd+space) is way cooler. I almost never use Finder (face icon).

After that, I had the sales person demonstrate the touch pad. Obviously I had no idea what I was doing but I can see the value of some of the 'sweeping features'--I absolutely love the 2 finger scroll down feature--brilliant. With a little practice I'm sure I can adapt to the touch pad and use it with efficiency. I cannot speak much more about the actual operation of the computer because, well, I had no idea what I was doing! It's a weird experience to get on a computer and just feel completely lost but I suspect that will go away quite soon.

The trackpad simply works and the gestures quickly become second nature. The downside is that you will constantly use the gestures on any trackpad which is rather frustrating on laptops without them.

With all that said, I believe the most difficult part of the pc to mac switch for me personally will be learning a new OS--most of the negative aspects of my experience with the mbp was due to my lack of knowledge of simple mac operation and the OS (for example, I had a web page open and wanted to open another one--I clicked the safari icon expecting another browser screen to appear and when it didn't I was not really sure what to do)

Again, keyboard shortcuts are your friend. In this case cmd+N (new).Alternatively, you can use the menu on the top of the screen (note that it changes depending on the "foreground" application) but that becomes old fairly quickly.

So since all of you took the time to respond to my post I figured I'd take the time to update you on how my first mac test drive went. All in all I left the store leaning toward the ASUS but the more I thought about it I realized this was only because I was venturing into the unknown--change is always difficult. I re-watched the OSX video at apple.com and was pretty impressed at the features/ease of use of the system--now it's just a matter of me learning it and getting used to it. I will be using my girlfriend's mbp for the next couple of days and depending on how quickly I can pick up the new OS/mac functions there is a good chance I'll give the mbp a try for a few years.

I recommend getting "Mac OS X - the missing manual (Leopard edition)" by David Pogue. It's an amazingly detailed reference that provides you will a lot of the ins and outs of OS X. It will help your learning curve. I consider myself a very technical user and even I got a lot out of it, although I didn't bother reading it from one end to the other. As a reference it is very good.

This is what is says about the maximize icon:

"On the Mac, clicking the Zoom button (the green button at the upper-left corner of a window) does something like the Maximize button in Windows: It makes your window larger. On the Mac, however, clicking the zoom button never makes the window expand to fill the entire screen. Instead, the window grows - or shrinks - precisely enough to enclose its contents."

 

[dr. shdw]

Just wait til you start using Quicksilver

 

[snberk103]

If you still aren't sure.... and I don't blame you for not being sure... there is another route you could try.

Instead of going for a high end "final decision" machine, go for something barely adequate. There are some good deals on the Apple online rerfurb/special deals section. Or even Ebay. See if you like OS X, and will be able to adapt to it. I predict you will be looking for a new machine in 6 months. You will either be upgrading to new MBP for the horsepower, after deciding OS X is ok. Or you will decide that OS X is not for you, and you will go back to the Windows world. In either case the Mac will have kept most of its value, and you won't be too much out of pocket when you sell it.

A Mac Mini is the by far the cheapest Mac out there. Sounds like you already have the screens and keyboards to make it work. Keep in mind it may not work as fast as you would like, but keep in mind its got old technology in it. But it is good trial machine.

There is a good thread on this site for Leopard tips and tricks (just search for it) that will help with the transition.

 

[macsmurf]

Just wait til you start using Quicksilver

I never got around to using Quicksilver. Spotlight seems more than adequate for my needs.

 

[frozenlead]

I agree - this isn't a place for an UNbiased opinion.

Really, the only reason I would suggest anyone get a Mac is for OS X and it's supporting software in specific cases. For instance, if you want to do video editing, but not go ridiculously into it, the Mac's software package is your best bet, and for amateur editing, it's got plenty of power to do the job in default. For professional work, people should really think about the desktop Pro series, but, I would never recommend you get one, as the hardware you get is crap for the price.

If you don't want to forfeit the cost for the Mackbook line and want still want to video edit, a PC is more for you, from amateur editing to professional movie-grade editing. PCs are packed with more power and more software...but you may require some know-how if you have to set it up yourself (it is dramatically cheaper, though).

Lots and lots of people talk about how good looking the Macbooks are, but I don't think that's much of a point to make. That's just personal preference. For example, I hate the look of the Macbooks. It feels watered down and far too simplified to me, and just isn't functional. I prefer my Sager...but the best looking notebook, to me, was my old IBM A21m. If you like the way they look, that's just fine with me - I have what makes me happy, you can just as equally have what makes you happy.

Lots of people here have referred to easily upgrading your hard disk and RAM on a Macbook - the same task is just as easy on any PC notebook. Two screws at the bottom reveals the RAM, another two reveals the hard disk. On my sager you can take off the entire bottom panel of the notebook with 10 screws or so, revealing every component, from RAM to graphics card.

My Sager comes in at 12 or 13 pounds, but I still take it to class every day. I don't mind it a bit. (and that's 10% of my body weight, exactly) Whatever notebook you buy, keep in mind its weight, but I wouldn't buy a computer based off of it. You want to use the computer, not carry it. Keep "what am I going to do on this thing?" and "how much do I want to spend?" in the front of your mind at all times.

All in all, it comes down to those two questions. If you don't want to fork the cash for the Apple name, then go with the PC, you won't be disappointed (so long as you shop carefully). If you don't mind forking the cash for the Mac, and like the platform itself (as many have suggested, please TRY it first!), then get the Mac, you won't be disappointed.

 

[darfel]

The one poster is right, specs don't tell the whole story. The easiest way I explain my Mac to my friends is this, I spend more time "using" my MBP than trying to figure out why its running slow or do I have the latest patches or etc...

Good luck

 

[akm3]

If all you care about is specs, and the whole 'it just works' argument is meaningless to you, then just buy the PC and stay happy!

I was in your situation, and finally got at the point I was tired of fighting my PC's everyday. Whether that meant tracking down drivers, constant security updates, trying to get this audio card to work with that ASIO using program, etc, etc. I was just tired of configuring all the time.

So, I bought a Mac Mini to 'check out the fuss'. Within two weeks all my PC's were down in the basement and shut off.

Here was MY epiphany moment.

I needed to install my printer on the new Mac Mini. So, I plugged in the USB cable and ... nothing happened! Nothing popped up to say 'New hardware found', or 'Printer found', etc.

I thought to myself 'Oh GEEZ What happened to 'it just works?!?' It couldn't even find my stupid printer.

What I hadn't realized, was that it had already configured it and setup the driver, and I could go to any Mac program and go File-->Print and it worked. I never had to add a driver. OS X didn't feel the need to waste my time telling me that it successfully installed a printer. (Which, after fighting with Windows forever, I didn't realize I as a user should EXPECT!)

The whole OS X experience is like that. Stuff you don't even realize you waste time on just doesn't exist.

Registry editing? Nope. Driver installs? Nope (OK rarely). Software installs? Just drag the program to the Application folder. Uninstalls? Just drag it from the Application folder to the Trash. Plug in my Camera? iPhoto opens and automatically imports the pictures. Plug in my Camcorder? iMovie opens and automatically imports my video. Everything WORKS.

If 'everything works' doesn't cut it for you, then buy the PC.

My household has since purchased a Macbook Air, a unibody Macbook Pro, and an iPod touch. My wife and I will each get iPhones when our Verizon contract expires. My wife, who is a long time computer USER (but not expert) didn't like the Mac at first, because things are different. Now, she absolutely hates when she is using any other notebook because she can't use the multitouch gestures on it She has come around, completely as a user, to the Mac way of doing things and prefers it.

The little productivity touches that Windows is always copying but never getting quite right like Spotlight, Expose, Dashboard, etc also just make doing what I want to do so much easier.

THAT SAID: There are some things that are not as good as Windows. I still find the Finder to be inferior to Windows Explorer. Obviously, software support isn't as good as it is for Windows. And finally, spec for spec, the hardware you get appears to be a poor value - until you decide that the 'it just works' user experience is important to you, then Macs will always be a poor value.

Why don't you try buying a refurb Macbook or something just to cheaply decide if Mac OS X is right for you. If it isn't, keep using Windows. BUT, if you do this, force yourself to use it for a month. You need to get used to the quirks and differences and force yourself through that to give it a fair evaluation.

Hope that helps!

 

[snberk103]

I agree - this isn't a place for an UNbiased opinion.

Really, the only reason I would suggest anyone get a Mac is for OS X and it's supporting software in specific cases. For instance, if you want to do video editing, but not go ridiculously into it, the Mac's software package is your best bet, and for amateur editing, it's got plenty of power to do the job in default. For professional work, people should really think about the desktop Pro series, but, I would never recommend you get one, as the hardware you get is crap for the price.

Another valid opinion, except the bit about the Pro (IMHO). Actually, also in George Ou's opinion too. Before George left ZDNet, he would constantly complain how expensive Mac hardware was compared to DIY systems. Except for the 8 core Mac pros. He called them the best value for money of any comparable system. And, he was surprised! That was more than half a year ago, so some things may have changed slightly, but they are certainly not "crap".

 

[JDee]

I have got Call of Duty 5: WAW on my iMac at the minute, and it is running like a trick.
(Same specs as your MBP).

Although, don't listen to this nonsense about you needing 6GB of memory on your Mac, it is complete nonsense unless you actually use it.

Vista for example uses so much of your CPU and so much memory for backround purposes which are completely un-needed for.

The Mac uses it's memory allocation, purely for what you want to use it for.

Buy a Mac - I had a HP tower about three months ago - I will never go back to a PC.

Back in the day, I thought Apple computers were really, really bad. I really appreciate them now, and I don't know how I could have disliked them a few years back.

They are the future. I'm also considering buying a Macbook and an iPhone within the next four months they are so good.

 

[frozenlead]

He called them the best value for money of any comparable system.

That's because there's very little to compare them to - the only other products in that price range are full blown dimmer-board-and-computer integrated studio setups and servers. For the 10k you can spend on a Pro, you can get better performance out of off the shelf hardware (and certianly more than some measly 2600XT's or 8800GT's...for 10k I expect a LOT more graphics power, especially considering GPGPU capabilities!) That's why I say its crap for its price.

Just answer those two questions, though, and you'll find your perfect computer.

Edit: And, for the record, Vista uses very little more memory than XP. It appears that way because it caches it with your commonly used programs and things it expects you to do. When you need the memory, it opens up for you. Google "superfetch"

 

[dr. shdw]

That's because there's very little to compare them to - the only other products in that price range are full blown dimmer-board-and-computer integrated studio setups and servers. For the 10k you can spend on a Pro, you can get better performance out of off the shelf hardware (and certianly more than some measly 2600XT's or 8800GT's...for 10k I expect a LOT more graphics power, especially considering GPGPU capabilities!) That's why I say its crap for its price.

Just answer those two questions, though, and you'll find your perfect computer.

Edit: And, for the record, Vista uses very little more memory than XP. It appears that way because it caches it with your commonly used programs and things it expects you to do. When you need the memory, it opens up for you. Google "superfetch"

10k? What? Manufacturers always jack up prices for BTO, Apple is no different from Dell/HP/etc. Mac Pros start at $2800 with dual Xeons, go find that from Dell/HP for less, good luck. For 10k, your server class motherboard costs probably $500 alone along with your $1000 processors and then the OS, memory, video, etc. For 10k on Apple's site, you can get 5600 Quadros. Where did you get 10k from anyhow? By adding 32gb of RAM?? That costs $1700~ over at OWC.

 

[frozenlead]

I don't know why I said 10k...I remember seeing a powerful one for that much a while ago from Apple's site. Even decked at 7k, though, I'm still disappointed.

 

[ChrisA]

Here is my dilemma. I am considering the new MBP and also a 'gaming' PC laptop, the ASUS G71G-A2. After all is said and done, the ASUS will save me about $500 and give me superior performance (simply looking at the numbers). I do not need a 'gaming' laptop but I hope someone can give me a solid reason why I should pay more for less other than 'it just works', I sincerely want to know why it works better (if it does) with less. So here is the rundown the way I see it.

There is only ONE reason to own a computer: To run SOFTWARE.

Maybe I should say it again... You should not care about how much L2 cache you get or what the case is made of. Those are just "details" compared to what SOFTWARE the machine can run.

So... even if you could find a Windows PC for free it would be worthless if it could not run the software you need to run. The PC (at any price) can't run Final Cut Pro. It can't run iPhoto. It can't Run Aperture. It can't run Mac OS X and so on and so on.

In short the reason you buy a Mac is so you can run Mac software. No other reason.

 

[Winni]

First of all, Leopard is by no means more stable or reliable than Vista. They're both on the same level. Leopard is more comfortable to use than Vista, but the 64-Bit version of Vista outperforms Leopard - everything feels faster and snappier in Vista on the same machine, but both are by far slower than Windows XP and, in all honesty, Windows XP is more mature and stable than both Vista and Leopard.

Secondly, you are literally comparing oranges with apples. This entire comparison only makes sense when both computers and software platform can meet your business requirements. Can you run all the software that you need to do your job on OS X? Are there OS X versions of everything? Yes? In most cases, the answer is no and substitutes never work in real life when you have to collaborate with other professionals. Either use the same tools or look for another job. The same is true for the opposite perspective - when you come from OS X, you must ask yourself whether all your tools will be available for Windows. In many cases, they are not, because the Mac ecosystem is very different from the Windows world.

When it comes to the plain hardware level, comparing the plain specs is perfectly vaild. Basically, it is the same hardware in both the PC and the Mac. It has become much harder for Apple to defend the premium price than it has ever been before. If you're willing to pay for the design, get the Apple. But you'll usually get a more powerful machine for less money in the PC world.

So, once again, the software must be the decision point. Since you're coming from XP, which means that you should own the one or the other software license for the Windows platform, what is your business case for switching to the Mac? Are you sure that you have a strong case for switching or is it just an expensive curiosity?

 

[Cory5412]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but if you end up sticking with Windows, which is perfectly reasonable, I recommend checking out Lenovo's ThinkPads. They probably cost a bit more than the Asus monster you originally mentioned, but ThinkPad T Series are nearly as svelte and definitely as well-built if not better constructed than the macbookpro. I'm on one of their R-series right now, which is a cheaper bulkier version, and I would still say that this machine is pretty powerful and capable compared to a lot of the Mac laptops of its time. (Although my system is on the 965gm chipset with a santa rosa core2 chip, it's a 1.5GHz T5250 so it's clocked slower than any intel macbook that shipped -- It's still a respectable system and with 3gb of memory, Vista Ultimate runs great on here.) One of the latest ThinkPads with the G45M chipset would work great I suspect.

The other thing I'll say is that with any PC laptop you have to be a lot more careful with how you handle the battery because its capacity will drop if you don't take particularly good care of it, whereas Mac batteries tend to take care of themselves, and do even better with regularly scheduled battery maintenance type things.

Also, if it makes a difference, you can order XP with any ThinkPad that's shipping today.

 

[GalaxyT25]

Well....???

Gosh, Wylie.. I was wading (and waiting) patiently to see your ultimate decision here and I get to the end and nothing! lol. Well, I hope you are pleased with your selection.. as I'm assuming you've made it by now.

Wanted to say that the IT guy who wrote about recently switching over to Macs because they 'just work' had the most well put info for you in my book. I'm also an IT guy of over 15 years. I've known for a long time that if Mac ever got their networking stuff down to a science the way Microsoft did years ago, I would definitely not be in the line of work I'm in. Mac's (from a hardware perspective) are vastly superior in build quality and design. Inside/out, they are very well thought out and would likely not require the teams of technicians I need to put together for PC users. I get calls from our art dept. at work (the only ones who use Macs) about once a year and it's almost always because they need our help ordering a part that they would "rather install themselves" since my guys don't inspire confidence when they sit down in front of a Mac. lol.

The very best reasons to go with a Mac right now are... integration, stability, reliability, ease of use, media-centric capabilities and true feature adds. Macs truly integrate Mail with your media, video with your music, your "PC" with your cell phone (Mac/iPhone combo is like WOW). The Leopard OS is full of truly innovative features and time saving improvements to common problems. iMovie, iDVD are incredible packages you'd pay a fortune for on the PC and never get the ease of use. GarageBand has no PC equal that I'm aware of. Apple Mail's spam filtering blows Outlook's right away. I could go on, but I'll stop because...

...you talked about gaming. And I must say, I'm not gaming on my Mac. I'm doing it on my console at home. My XBox360 has no trouble streaming music and video from my Mac, which is cool. But I have no idea how well this Alum Macbook Pro would be at full on gaming. I must admit, I'm not terribly impressed with either of its two graphics cards... or that you can only use one at a time. I feel like my old Mini had more stable graphics and these are a bit unpredictable. I was also under the impression that Macs had far fewer game titles available.

Could some gamers out there give a good review of the state of Mac games and how they might run on the new Aluminum laptops?

Good luck with your decision, Wylie. And thanks to anyone else for info on Mac games!

 

[Old Muley]

The next thing I noticed was that it seemed as though when I closed a program (clicked the red X) it looked as if it was just hidden while still running in the background.

This is a feature of OSX that I love, and that I dearly miss at work where I'm forced to use a Dell laptop. It's a real peeve of mine that when I close a window by hitting the "red x", the app shuts down.

While it's probably low on many people's list of priorities when deciding between computers, I find the design of Macs themselves to be very appealing. Every non-Mac laptop I've had to use at work looks like it was designed by a committee. LEDs everywhere, stickers advertising features, a myriad of extra buttons, I/O ports on three sides, odd angles, and overuse of colored/textured surfaces all seem par for the course on most PC laptops. Putting a Mac on your desktop just looks so much better; like a piece of art.

 

[xhambonex]

Heres my best shot at helping you out OP. I'll start by saying I own a MBP, but I probably would be better off owning a windows machine and run windows about a 1/3 of the time on this machine anyways due to autodesks non-mac supported programs.

Im not going to compare specs, I know that you can understand those on your own. Though the parts in the apple notebook series are specifically manufactured for Apple so thats why people like to say they just work better. That aside.

So that price increase you see with that Apple brand is more than just the specs and performance of the machine. I'll start off by saying I don't know how much I trust Asus's build quality. The ones I have come across have not been very sturdy machines, now that may not be true for all of them but pick it up, test its strength, just don't break it you'll be able to see how well built it actually is. I do think my MBP lacks build quality, its a stronger machine. (I have a SR MBP its a year or so old). The new unibody construction is a lot stronger method of construction and you will get a better build quality from this generation. Size and weight have been mentioned yes I would pick that MBP over the Asus in that category anyday 8.6 lbs is a lot to carry around.

Apple's service is more than worth the extra money especially if you have a store around you. They take care of you and your products especially if you get applecare which I recommend. Put it this way, I imagine that going through Asus to get replacement parts or warranty items would be a by mail thing or dealing with the retailer you baught it with. Dealing with a mac genious, well they just get you what you want. I have had things fixed on the spot, I have seen things replaced on the spot, even stuff they may not get right the first time, its retail it happens, they will make it right. Point being, Apple's service is half the reason the people here love apple, whether they realize it or not.

OS X vs. Windows, well no thanks on Vista for me I'm running XP and love it. But with windows 7 beta out and the OS coming soon it's hard to say you'll love one over the other, but getting used to using a mac is part of liking the system. I have my issues with OS X and lack of compatibility with things and such (mainly 3d modeling software) but overall everyday task and what not work fine. I think if you use it you will end up liking it. Most people do.

Thats really the only stuff I would take into consideration beyond what you have already compared. Yeah spec for spec the Asus has more, you just got to think whole package. For me yes I pick Apple over Asus, but thats not saying that I would always pick Apple over other PC brands such as Lenovo who I feel makes amazing machines.

 

[shiseiryu1]

Glass Trackpad

The biggest thing I like about my MBP is the glass trackpad. It's huge and makes spending lots of time on my laptop a pleasure. It just makes using the laptop feel so natural; now whenever I use another laptop I feel like I have to constantly fight with the trackpad. My boss has a netbook which has a trackpad about the size of a quarter and the thing drives me crazy!