Pentium M and Yonah Processors in Upcoming Macs?

[broken_keyboard]

why not buy a new machine? its the intel based macs that will suffer this transition first. many apps will have to be emulated and the emulator is only equal to a G3. ppc macs won't start to suffer for at least 2 years and I bet as long as 3 or 4 even. you can be sure that many current G5 towers will still be running and well used in 4 years.

Yes, good point. It makes sense to use the Mac with the least emulation.

I even see the following happening at WWDC 2006:

"Well, you guys are amazing. The Intel transition is going very well and there's very few problems on the customers side. But you know, IBM and Freescale have been making real progress since last year. We now have mobile dual-core 2.4GHz G4s from Freescale and quad-core 6GHz PPCs from IBM at our disposal! Introducing the new PowerBooks and PowerMacs! The iBooks, eMacs and Mac minis will still continue on schedule with 3GHz Pentium M processors. So what we're now asking you is to simply keep making universal binaries like you've done for the past year. Apple is not switching to any architecture: we're now the only computing platform that's really architecture-independant. Keep those universal binaries coming, guys."

Well, that would be nice, but I'm pretty sure they are only going to have one architecture ultimately. In Steve's diagram in the keynote where he had the Intel's fading in and the PPCs fading out, the PPC fades all the way out.

 

[maya]

Who cares what processor is inside, but does Steve have to pick INTEL?

One thing is certain that Apple will be supporting its PPC user base for 6-10 years starting 2006-07. Last thing Apple needs is an angry user base. And this is also good news as Apple wants to adopt 64-bit processing on all they lines.

And 64-bit on x86 is taking off at present with dual-core announcements.

Good news for me I just bought an iMac G5 and won't require another Mac for another 4-5 years.

 

[Yvan256]

Well, that would be nice, but I'm pretty sure they are only going to have one architecture ultimately. In Steve's diagram in the keynote where he had the Intel's fading in and the PPCs fading out, the PPC fades all the way out.

That's the current idea, but who knows where Intel, AMD, IBM and Freescale will be in one year? If you think Apple won't check on Intel to see if they're able to stay up-to-date on their own roadmap, think again.

If Intel is not where they should be one year from now, that means they probably won't be where they told Apple they'd be in five years either.

If the universal binaries idea works (and why shouldn't it?), there won't be a need to actually drop PPC from the lineup. Use whatever's best for the design (Pentium M for laptops, dual-core Yohna (or whatever) for desktop, PPC980 (or whatever) for Xserves).

 

[mafwoj]

"Yonah"

Or a guy eaten by a whale...

I think it's a joke about the P4/netburst Archit

intel went the wrong way the first time

now their back to what the _israeli's_ had suggested

that's my theory

code names usually involved some sort of joke

(BHA anyone )

 

[FFTT]

First P4 prototype

My first reaction to this was OMG that's Fkinugly
and that somebody has waaaaay too much time on their hands.

What it really shows us is just how far things have come along
with Apple's design engineers.

Gotta give this guy E for effort Eeeeeek!

http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/p4mac/p4mac.aspx

http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/p4mac/Page2.aspx (assembly photos)

 

[zen.state]

I even see the following happening at WWDC 2006:

"Well, you guys are amazing. The Intel transition is going very well and there's very few problems on the customers side. But you know, IBM and Freescale have been making real progress since last year. We now have mobile dual-core 2.4GHz G4s from Freescale and quad-core 6GHz PPCs from IBM at our disposal! Introducing the new PowerBooks and PowerMacs! The iBooks, eMacs and Mac minis will still continue on schedule with 3GHz Pentium M processors. So what we're now asking you is to simply keep making universal binaries like you've done for the past year. Apple is not switching to any architecture: we're now the only computing platform that's really architecture-independant. Keep those universal binaries coming, guys."

I doubt that will happen but it sure would be nice. RISC trumped CISC for years but the last 3 years or so the CISC makers have really advanced their tech.

another thought is even if the ppc makers did bring out those chips the best apple could do is only put them in some macs. i'm sure they are locked into some contract with intel. I also bet that another reason the switch will start in a year is that maybe their contracts with the ppc makers run out then.

just some random thoughts..

 

[Val-kyrie]

Im sure am looking forward to the future of mac. Those dual cores look intresting. I cant wait to see how well these intel processors will perform on os x.

Thanks arn for keeping us informed over the last week, much appreciated

Or do you mean "how well OS X will perform on intel processors"?

 

[Val-kyrie]

Timing of iBooks/PBs

You do realize that the first shipments of mactels will be june next year.

I think the Ibooks will get a minor speed bump soon, then at mwsf 06 we will get powerbooks with the M chip, I think it will happen similar to this becuse I doubt Apple would give the new chip to the Ibook first, but I could be wrong, just my 2 cents.

Dave

I'm with you, Mpowerbook182 (sorry, DeSnousa). I believe Steve said we would see Intel based Macs BY this time next year, so I don't think this precludes a release of these at MWSF, '06. Besides, if Mac sales begin to tank, I can easily see Steve pushing for release of these portables to boost sales. The timing would also seem right: If we see a release of the iBook this summer, it will probably only push the speed up to 1.33 and 1.50 respectively; leaving the PBs at 1.5 and 1.67--I doubt there's any speed left in the G4 for the PB. Then, in January, I expect a simultaneous release of the iBook and PowerBook with new form factors and a whole new array of features we have been craving. The speeds for the new intel chips would provide a good point to begin the distinction between the two lines: iBooks at 1.66 and 1.83 GHz and the PBs at 2.0 and 2.1 GHz. The price points ($241, 294, 423, and 637) would also indicate a split in cost between consumer and prosumer models.

My only disappointments are two: first, these initial releases will be limited to 32 bit, and I have a suspicion that Leopard might be the first fully 64 bit OS for Apple. The release of Leopard at the end of 2006 or beginning of 2007 would coincide with the anticipated Intel release of the 64 bit laptop chip codenamed "Merom" and would provide a nice point of transition to the 64 bit world. Second, Intel really isn't into SOC (System-on-Chip) designs. I think there are a lot of advantages to putting the memory controller on-die (ala AMD), and this was my only point of anticipation in waiting for Freescale's 8641 chip. Perhaps Intel will think about SOC in the future, though.

 

[FFTT]

It's looking more and more like after 12 years of the PPC's we'll be throwing a grand Bar Mitzvah for our all new Intel based Macs

 

[Val-kyrie]

Abbreviations

Woah careful there - PM now can mean PowerMac or Pentium M
Thats one more double abreviation we have to worry about (like PB for PowerBook and Project Builder)

PM = PowerMac
P-M = Pentium M [Edit: or, Pentium-M]

 

[Coca-Cola]

We should throw a party for the new Mac Intels.

This is going to be an exciting time for Apple. I am excited to see new powerbooks with Intels.

The best part about the change-over, in my opinion? A plethora of chips! Imagine if you will, no longer waiting for new Apple computers. Every three months apple will be able to deliver faster processors. You will no longer have to search out new products and wait weeks for them to arrive. Intel chips, everywhere, great big piles of em swept into the corners of Cupertino. Instead of patiently waiting for the express delivery of G5's, their will too many chips at the factory. What are we going to do with all of these chips, they are really starting to pile up? The volume will be so large the chips will be worth cents. They will simply be dropping excess chips on the floor and stepping on them. Piles and piles of chips. The only thing slowing down apple's deliveries of systems will be UPS.

This is going to be good. I am going to be buying apple stock again.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Apple will make a distinction between the Mac mini, iBook and Powerbook. The way I see it and it fits with the release of the chips is:

Mac Mini - Pentium M (single core)
iBook - Pentium M (single core)
Powerbook - Pentium M (Yonah - dual core)

I really hope you are wrong and that the iBook also receives a dual core. There is more than enough difference in chip speeds from Yonah to justify dual-core chips in both portable lines. See my previous post https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/131469/[/URL

 

[FFTT]

Rev A Intel based Macs

I'm reminded of all those poor souls who paid top dollar for the first
single processor G5 PowerMacs.

Still people never seem to listen to the well publicised recommendations to pass on Rev A releases.

Although they were a great improvement many also were advised to
wait for Rev B of the the G5 iMac, but some people just can't hold on to their money when they see someting new. Of course now the G5 iMac has been vastly improved with a faster processor and an upgraded GPU.

It looks like Apple will have to rely on first time buyers when they finally
launch their first Intel based Macs even IF they release dual cores out of the starting gate.

Many of us won't be willing to play lab rat or crash test dummy until
all the bugs are out of the new systems, so it may be better to go ahead and buy what you need now and wait to see what happens in 2007 and beyond.

 

[Val-kyrie]

I'll be first in line

I'm reminded of all those poor souls who paid top dollar for the first
single processor G5 PowerMacs.

Still people never seem to listen to the well publicised recommendations to pass on Rev A releases.

Although they were a great improvement many also were advised to
wait for Rev B of the the G5 iMac, but some people just can't hold on to their money when they see someting new. Of course now the G5 iMac has been vastly improved with a faster processor and an upgraded GPU.

It looks like Apple will have to rely on first time buyers when they finally
launch their first Intel based Macs even IF they release dual cores out of the starting gate.

Many of us won't be willing to play lab rat or crash test dummy until
all the bugs are out of the new systems, so it may be better to go ahead and buy what you need now and wait to see what happens in 2007 and beyond.

for one of Apple's Intel-based laptops. I could really use one now, but as a switcher I would need to invest too much in new software. For the privilege of using OS X, the cost is too high currently. However, I can't wait for the ability to dual boot or emulate at almost full speed my Windows programs that I need to run--e.g. Bible software--that has no equivalent on the Mac-side. This will be a huge advantage to me.

 

[FFTT]

A little dabble do ya

Honestly, I think anyone who needs a new system and is still unsure about the move to OSX should just buy a 512MB RAM equipped mini, iBook or iMac G5 and forget about waiting.

If you can't afford $600.00 to dabble, then
I feel sorry for you.

In two years, after you are TOTALY SPOILED BY Mac OS X,
hand it over to grandma or the kids or keep it for a miniserve.

If something comes along around MWSF '07 that's really worth drooling over, buy it, knowing exactly what you're getting into with confidence.

Anything you buy from Apple right now will hold up fine until at least
2010.

If you have some dedicated Windows app that runs ONLY on your current P/C Fine!
Retire the P/C for that purpose until the newest gear supports your needs.

As long as you don't go nuts on what you spend right now, you'll
see that it was worth every penny.

 

[pubwvj]

A Pentium is just an overgrown Z80.

Ah, the Z80, I remember them fondly. First processor I build a machine around from scratch. Nice chip and widely used for process control for a _long_ time. If only the Pentium were so good as to be an overgrown Z80.

 

[pubwvj]

PC users won't care (Macs don't have games).

Wow! What a weird statement. We have _many_ great games we play on the Mac - commercial, shareware and freeware. Mac gaming is alive and well. Open your eyes.

 

[pubwvj]

Honestly, I think anyone who needs a new system and is still unsure about the move to OSX should just buy a 512MB RAM equipped mini, iBook or iMac G5 and forget about waiting.

If you can't afford $600.00 to dabble, then I feel sorry for you.

Good point, I'll send you my address so you can send me a check for the $600. I'm sure others will take you up on your generousity.

 

[FFTT]

I'll give you the same advice I give my kids.

Get a Job!

 

[j_maddison]

It's a much better investment to buy a used Powerbook than a brand new ibook.
ibooks are just cheap plastic toys in comparison to Aluminiium powerbooks. As a matter of fact nearly every other laptop feels like a cheap toy when compared to a Powerbook.

Thats quite possibly true, but alot of people want something thats shiny and new. Also, before the last Powerbook speed bump there was a compelling argument to go for an ibook over a Powerbook because there wasnt much difference between the two. Now I know alot of people would disagree, but what I mean by that is if you are using a laptop for some e mail, word processing and web surfing, then the ibook looked pretty good in comparision.

Personally I dont think the ibooks are that bad. Sure the keyboards arent as good, but i doubt many people on this forum touch type so for many they wont notice the difference as much as someone who can.

Having said that, I never could quite bring my self to by an ibook, so I'm possibly being hypocritical in my vain attempt to defend the ibook.

Jay

 

[tdewey]

I even see the following happening at WWDC 2006:

"Well, you guys are amazing. The Intel transition is going very well and there's very few problems on the customers side. But you know, IBM and Freescale have been making real progress since last year. We now have mobile dual-core 2.4GHz G4s from Freescale and quad-core 6GHz PPCs from IBM at our disposal! Introducing the new PowerBooks and PowerMacs! The iBooks, eMacs and Mac minis will still continue on schedule with 3GHz Pentium M processors. So what we're now asking you is to simply keep making universal binaries like you've done for the past year. Apple is not switching to any architecture: we're now the only computing platform that's really architecture-independant. Keep those universal binaries coming, guys."

Um. No. If Intel keeps on track WWDC 2006 will see the release of the Intel based Power Macs.

 

[egor]

Here's a question, will the intel x86 chips for apple use a different socket than normal? I ask this because if one can stick any easily buyable intel chip into a mac then surely that drastically reduces the incentive to buy a new mac when you can forego apple and upgrade it yourself rather easily?

And if it uses a different socket then maybe the chips won't be as cheap as we thought?

 

[Linkjeniero]

Here's a question, will the intel x86 chips for apple use a different socket than normal? I ask this because if one can stick any easily buyable intel chip into a mac then surely that drastically reduces the incentive to buy a new mac when you can forego apple and upgrade it yourself rather easily?

And if it uses a different socket then maybe the chips won't be as cheap as we thought?

I don't think so. If Apple wants to make the chips non-replaceable (and it probably will be that way), all they have to do is solder the chip to the motherboard. It's a much easier solution, and above all, much cheaper.

 

[MikeTheC]

I would not worry to much about this, A sony vaio (laptop or Desktop) has a higher cost than a dell, and while sony doesn't sell as many computers as dell, they do sell quite a few, probably for one reason; it's a Sony, I think Apple has the same thing going for it but even more so since we have OSX.

And, as you'll recall, the Steve has gone on record saying Apple's only competition is Sony. And given that Sony is just a brand-name wrapper for another x86 Windows clone, it shouldn't be too hard for Apple to shine.

Such a pity that Sony didn't come up with this brilliant idea themselves years ago when they first jumped into the PC business...

 

[MikeTheC]

Thats quite possibly true, but alot of people want something thats shiny and new. Also, before the last Powerbook speed bump there was a compelling argument to go for an ibook over a Powerbook because there wasnt much difference between the two. Now I know alot of people would disagree, but what I mean by that is if you are using a laptop for some e mail, word processing and web surfing, then the ibook looked pretty good in comparision.

Personally I dont think the ibooks are that bad. Sure the keyboards arent as good, but i doubt many people on this forum touch type so for many they wont notice the difference as much as someone who can.

Having said that, I never could quite bring my self to by an ibook, so I'm possibly being hypocritical in my vain attempt to defend the ibook.

Jay

Actually, I am one of the ones here who can touch-type. I've also owned a iBook 14" G3/600 and now a PB 15" G4/1.5 and while it's true there's a difference in feel between keyboards, it's no big deal as far as I'm concerned.

I actually like the thicker, plastic casing better than the thinner metal one (gasp!) as it seems more rugged to me. Also, I think the WiFi reception is better in an iBook. However, the fit-and-finish is better in the PB, especially where the battery is concerned.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If it were not for the requirements of my tools (Quark, Photoshop, InDesign, etc.) and even that notwithstanding, computers have long ago passed the point of being sufficiently powerful enough for all of my needs.