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Petition - Apple Features for International Users

The iTunes shop is dissimilar to the other localised services that iApps/Sherlock offer only to US customers. All the other services are really local services and so the energy needs to be put in via the regional Apple branches to implement a local solution. (eg the Yellow pages sherlock channel really needs to show my country's listings not US). But the iTunes music store is an online export model. It's instant and convenient, and will work internationally from the US.

Note that the opening pane of the music store for people outside the US states that 'The iTunes Music Store is not available in your country yet.'

Maybe it's already in the pipeline.

I assume this is a contractual issue as Apple already ships its hardware and software internationally from it's online store, so the infrastructure is there. It costs v nothing to allow the iTunes store to finalise the transaction to a billing address outside the US. It may however harm the iTunes suppliers' interests internationally if they allowed this service to go outside. They are probably trying to negotiate a sticky contract, if at all.

By the way, I'm in Australia and would like to see these services in my country. And I did sign the petition.
 
I don't understand why Apple are always so secretive about everything.

I realise it doesn't make sense to announce new hardware months in advance as it will harm sales now, but it wouldn't hurt them at all to say something like "We're sorry the Music Store is not available in Europe yet. This is because we need to negotiate contracts with all the different music companies there. We're already doing this and hope to launch the service later this year".

If they said something like that then nobody would get upset at them, and I can't see how this would harm their business. In fact it might sway someone who was choosing between a mac and a PC in the meantime.

I hope they are talking to music companies over here already, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
PetitionOnline.com not working...

Unfortunately, the petition website isn't working at all.. I get a page containing links page.
 
Originally posted by redAPPLE
international users are getting! :)

ripped off????

WHA???

if Apple does not want "Old Europe's" money, then that's their problem, right?
Click to expand...

what about new europe and usa's trusted brother in arms over here....:)
 
I take back everything I said above! I just heard Apple's UK General Manager on the radio. I have posted details here

Dobbin.
 
While I am frustrated that Apple isnt allowing this internationally, I can see the problems already. Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content, specially American stations which are broadcasting up here. As a result, some US stations play 30 or 45 seconds of just plain video of my city (not sure if its different in other cities) - sometimes a couple times a day - just some simple panning of the rivers or of the downtown or birds. So I'm really worried that something like this would be required to have x% Canadian content. As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music. This distribution model just seems like something that would get regulated - as far as I know the regular record stores do not have to carry a certain percentage of Canadian content - it would be bad business. So there is a good chance an Apple Music Store wouldnt be either.

So here's hoping to a Canadian version real soon - that doesnt have Ashley Macisaac all over the main page.
 
Originally posted by adamberti
Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content, specially American stations which are broadcasting up here. As a result, some US stations play 30 or 45 seconds of just plain video of my city (not sure if its different in other cities) - sometimes a couple times a day - just some simple panning of the rivers or of the downtown or birds.
Click to expand...

That's hilarious. Makes me want to move back to the Great White North. I doubt that there will be any problems with getting the music service in Canada. Remember NAFTA? Also, there's already a fair amount of Canadian talent that has found success in the US market- Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Neil Young. (Maybe they'd just flood the virtual shelves with Celine Dion tracks.) :)

A couple of other points:

1) Some people seem genuinely angered by the petition idea. I don't completely agree with the wording, but if there's even a small chance that it will get Apple's attention, why not?

2) Economics and legalities aside, if people the world over can order books from Amazon.com, then anyone with a credit card should be able to download music files from Apple's Music Store. I'm sure Apple will figure out a way to do this in many countries. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Squire
 
Originally posted by adamberti
While I am frustrated that Apple isnt allowing this internationally, I can see the problems already. Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. So I'm really worried that something like this would be required to have x% Canadian content. As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music. This distribution model just seems like something that would get regulated - as far as I know the regular record stores do not have to carry a certain percentage of Canadian content - it would be bad business. So there is a good chance an Apple Music Store wouldnt be either.

.
Click to expand...

Have no fear. CanCon cannot touch the internet. According to the CRTC, it is too new to be regulated... I hate CanCon myself, telling us what we have to watch or listen to. Isn't that a form of communism?

I am totally in agreeance. Some people take advantage of the fact that their stuff will get played just so the station can abide by CanCon regulations. I think it generally produces wannabe artsy crap and general nonsensical garbage
 
Originally posted by steeleclipse
Have no fear. CanCon cannot touch the internet. According to the CRTC, it is too new to be regulated... I hate CanCon myself, telling us what we have to watch or listen to. Isn't that a form of communism?

I am totally in agreeance. Some people take advantage of the fact that their stuff will get played just so the station can abide by CanCon regulations. I think it generally produces wannabe artsy crap and general nonsensical garbage
Click to expand...

Well Thats good to hear, I'm sure that CanCon (I'd never even heard that name before) will get its way eventually in some form or another.

Originally posted by Squire
That's hilarious. Makes me want to move back to the Great White North. I doubt that there will be any problems with getting the music service in Canada. Remember NAFTA? Also, there's already a fair amount of Canadian talent that has found success in the US market- Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Neil Young. (Maybe they'd just flood the virtual shelves with Celine Dion tracks.)
Click to expand...

I really don't think its worth coming back up here just for that - the images of rivers and birds is the better Canadian content - if you've ever watched CBC during the day - you know what I'm talking about :D

I'm not sure I understand you point about the Canadians doing well in the US....but I don't think it's a question of where the Singer/Songwriter is producing from - just where they're born. As you may or may not have noticed, Canadians are obsessed with telling you who's famous in the US - but is actually from Canada; singers, actors, comedians, hockey players, etc.

As for the petition - it cant hurt anyone, it takes 15 seconds to sign, so I don't see why people seem angry about it or call it stupid. Apple does listen to its customers - and thats one of the reasons they create stuff that we oogle over, and enjoy so much. There's no harm done by this.
 
Ultimate target

As long as people realize that the ultimate target is not Apple, but the various record companies and local distributors that control the rights, then the petition is pretty useful. It does no good to get angry with Apple, when it's the record companies that control the rights.
 
Re: Ultimate target

Originally posted by gwangung
As long as people realize that the ultimate target is not Apple, but the various record companies and local distributors that control the rights, then the petition is pretty useful. It does no good to get angry with Apple, when it's the record companies that control the rights.
Click to expand...

This petition isn't only about the Music Service.
Reading this thread it's pretty obvious to me that many non-US Mac users feel a bit "left behind" on the whole. Over here in Europe we are used to late hardware shipping, or non-english language supported software and so on, but leaving out the other fun stuff like Sherlock yellow pages, iPhoto print services and now the Music Service starts to add up.
I also feel it's time that Apple looked more across the borders, and the oceans....
 
I'm glad to here the right noises from Apple about the music service coming to international markets.

But I want to know what timescales are being aimed at since i don't trust Apple on this after Sherlock and iPhoto. I will also be extremely angry if the effort goes into bringing the service to Windows before International Apple customers as already seems to be the case.

I suspect Apple can't be bothered and will hide behind no announcements on future products and legal issues.

My tuppence ha'penny
 
Originally posted by steeleclipse
actually... the idea to put superdrives in powerbooks was from a petition... AND you will notice that in ALL of Steve's presentation's, he talks about why new features were implemented, and how most of them were requested BY APPLE USERS. For proof, watch yesterday's webcast (ipod dock, usb2, etc.)

we are also missing a very important point... international sales brings larger profits. Will Steve argue with that???
Click to expand...
you think they put superdrives in laptops because of a petetion,HA. they would have put them in if they could, nobody made them that small. And i dont think apple requests come from petetion, do you ever notice the feedback buttons in apps and on their website. same thing with the music store, you dont see people making add linkin park music threads, you use the feedback button.

iJon
 
IMO this is not that Apple doesn't want to offer the music service to international customers, it is just all of the legal stuff that would probably be tough to get through.
 
Why bother? It comes when it comes...

I have friends working in the banking segment in the Netherlands, and if we're any indication, the issue isn't with Apple. Most of these small countries protect their banking systems with legal walls - not too high, just costly to climb over.

Want to use MasterCard here? Generally no problem, since MC has been the "appointed" debit card for RaboBank and ABN-AMBRO (the 2 biggies). But Visa? Banks can charge a 20x higher rate to shopkeepers for using Visa (on average - depends on the client and their power with the bank, to a great extent). And don't even get me started on my poor old Amex.

Then there are tax authorities who decide on placing a 17-33% tax (based on the country) on goods and services. You can't just make the charge in the US and not expect countries to look for import duties (but you can try). Just try to get a DVD from the US via Amazon - sometimes the tax man gets you, sometimes not. But increasingly, he does.

My point? For international trade to work you need to have international ways to pay for it, and to have predictable results for the consumer. This is the big bugaboo with the EU right now - the dropping or merging of exclusive levies and taxes, those walls that have kept them apart for so long have to be merged and erased. I'm not holding my breath, but free commerce has to flow here at some time in the future.

Could Apple allow a smaller profit for one card, in one country? How about 20 countries? Would the consumer mind getting penalized with a higher tax because one song comes out of the US and another out of Belgium? Could you imagine the mess? I can.

More likely, this is an entirely legal issue. Apple's expansion into Europe with stores and a greater presence will help, but we're talking a year down the road.

For now, there's always those mailboxes you can get in Delaware...
 
I signed too -
Found already more than 40 songs I would like to download -

I think petitions are helpful and my thanks to the initiator.
Better than sitting on our hands

Now I shall wait for the Apple - Bookstore oh yeah and the Apple Video Rental scheme which I can all download into my i Pod with color screen

;)

Greetings from Switzerland (one of the economies which is far worse off, than the USofA ...)
 
I'm as angry as everyone else that I can not, for the time beeing, use the iTunes Music Store, but Apple is working on it, as this quote from MacCentral shows:

For now, Apple's music service is for users in the United States only. The iTunes Music Store requires a valid credit card with a U.S. billing address in order to purchase music.

"It has to do with the way the record industry is structured and our contracts with the record companies -- we have every intension of expanding the service internationally."

Link: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/04/28/appleanalysts/
 
Re: Re: Ultimate target

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
This petition isn't only about the Music Service.
Reading this thread it's pretty obvious to me that many non-US Mac users feel a bit "left behind" on the whole. Over here in Europe we are used to late hardware shipping, or non-english language supported software and so on, but leaving out the other fun stuff like Sherlock yellow pages, iPhoto print services and now the Music Service starts to add up.
I also feel it's time that Apple looked more across the borders, and the oceans....
Click to expand...

how large/small is apple compared to other software/computer manufacturers?

in all honesty, it sounds like people are complaining about software that is essentially free to anyone owning a mac. apple resources are probably better spent than logging theater showings for the 3451315q21f countries that make up the other 50% of apple customers. would any of these petition signers be willing to pay an extra fee for international service? i doubt it.

and as far as the itunes music store goes... sounds like sour grapes to me. apple presumably had enough trouble getting the big 5 in the U.S. to agree on a service, much less all the international copyright holders. U.S. labels will never release material in other countries where their rights means squat -- in addition to pissing off labels who might have foreign distro rights to U.S. content.
 
Canadian content

Originally posted by adamberti
...Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content...As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music.
Click to expand...

But hey - you guys produce Red Green, so the initiative isn't *all* bad! (Is it, Harold?)
 
Re: Re: Re: Ultimate target

Originally posted by roy_g_biv
how large/small is apple compared to other software/computer manufacturers?

in all honesty, it sounds like people are complaining about software that is essentially free to anyone owning a mac. apple resources are probably better spent than logging theater showings for the 3451315q21f countries that make up the other 50% of apple customers. would any of these petition signers be willing to pay an extra fee for international service? i doubt it.

and as far as the itunes music store goes... sounds like sour grapes to me. apple presumably had enough trouble getting the big 5 in the U.S. to agree on a service, much less all the international copyright holders. U.S. labels will never release material in other countries where their rights means squat -- in addition to pissing off labels who might have foreign distro rights to U.S. content.
Click to expand...
We DO pay extra for international service - we pay extra for everything. Macs themsleves and the software that goes on them. I think we've paid enough so that Apple should pay attention to those outside the US. Your response was the sort of arrogance that SOME Americans seem to have that pisses off everyone else in the world. As I mentioned in a thread elsewhere - How happy would you be if apple launched a non-US only service. Or one that only was for Californians or Texans or whatever?
As for copyright laws - amazingly yes we have those too and they're just as powerful as yours are. We just don't have stupid DMCA type laws yet... The big 5 argument is bogus too. They're global companies and don't just operate in the US. They own a lot of the labels over here in one way or another. Sony is a huge music company and guess what? It ain't American.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ultimate target

Originally posted by caveman_uk
We DO pay extra for international service - we pay extra for everything. Macs themsleves and the software that goes on them. I think we've paid enough so that Apple should pay attention to those outside the US. Your response was the sort of arrogance that SOME Americans seem to have that pisses off everyone else in the world. As I mentioned in a thread elsewhere - How happy would you be if apple launched a non-US only service. Or one that only was for Californians or Texans or whatever?
As for copyright laws - amazingly yes we have those too and they're just as powerful as yours are. We just don't have stupid DMCA type laws yet... The big 5 argument is bogus too. They're global companies and don't just operate in the US. They own a lot of the labels over here in one way or another. Sony is a huge music company and guess what? It ain't American.
Click to expand...

apple is an american computer manufacturer, which also means they are subject to interntational tariffs on exported goods, not to mention interntational shipping fees. i'm no specialist on international tax law, but a top of the line imac costs 20-25% more in the UK than in America. comparable ibm netvista-a pc's start at £420 GBP and $480 USD (thats £300 GBP) respectively. so it's not just apple who's guilty of price gaps. you're just upset because you're already paying a premium for a boutique computer. (and, last time i checked, itunes and sherlock are both still free)

so what was that about arrogance i seem to have in my response? does it sound something like the sort of "ignorance" SOME you brits seem to have? =P

as far as your copyright argument, "The big 5 argument is bogus" is.. well.. bogus. yes some labels fall under the same umbrella, but not all copyrighted material is available in all regions. sony *is* a huge music company. and you're right, it "ain't" american. but that's not saying i can get puffy ami yumi or faye wong music in america -- because there's no market for it here. so there's no reason for sony to copyright it in america. actually, i probably could get them, if i were willing to pay more for an import. you know what goddamnit, that really pisses me off! i think i'll start my own petition.

i'm not saying it won't happen, it will. eventually. nor am i saying you don't deserve the same services everyone else in the u.s. gets. you do. i'm not trying to be arrogant, but this notion of "now now now!" doesn't help gain my sympathy. give things a little time to iron out before you start calling foul.
 
One reason its not international yet is because the big 5 wanted to test this out on a small % of world. 1/20th of the worlds population times a 3% market share will let the record companies know if this is going to work on the entire world with PCs too.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ultimate target

Originally posted by roy_g_biv
apple is an american computer manufacturer, which also means they are subject to interntational tariffs on exported goods, not to mention interntational shipping fees. i'm no specialist on international tax law, but a top of the line imac costs 20-25% more in the UK than in America. comparable ibm netvista-a pc's start at £420 GBP and $480 USD (thats £300 GBP) respectively. so it's not just apple who's guilty of price gaps. you're just upset because you're already paying a premium for a boutique computer. (and, last time i checked, itunes and sherlock are both still free)

so what was that about arrogance i seem to have in my response? does it sound something like the sort of "ignorance" SOME you brits seem to have? =P

as far as your copyright argument, "The big 5 argument is bogus" is.. well.. bogus. yes some labels fall under the same umbrella, but not all copyrighted material is available in all regions. sony *is* a huge music company. and you're right, it "ain't" american. but that's not saying i can get puffy ami yumi or faye wong music in america -- because there's no market for it here. so there's no reason for sony to copyright it in america. actually, i probably could get them, if i were willing to pay more for an import. you know what goddamnit, that really pisses me off! i think i'll start my own petition.

i'm not saying it won't happen, it will. eventually. nor am i saying you don't deserve the same services everyone else in the u.s. gets. you do. i'm not trying to be arrogant, but this notion of "now now now!" doesn't help gain my sympathy. give things a little time to iron out before you start calling foul.
Click to expand...
Apple isn't an "an American computer manufacturer". They are an American computer designer - most of their stuff is made in Taiwan so we all pay import duty. An exception would be my powermac which was made in Ireland (so no import duty as it's in the EU) but it's still more expensive then it would be in the US. I don't mind paying more for a 'boutique computer'. I mind paying a lot more than you do for the same one.

iTunes and Sherlock are indeed free but the point is that some (or nearly all in the case of Sherlock) of their functionality is crippled outside of the US.

Sony or whoever do not have to make a choice as to whether to copyright something as copyright is automatic so "puffy ami yummy" are already covered. I bet they're quite relieved.

Ignorance or arrogance. Yes we've got that too but at least we don't think that as long as we're OK that's all that matters...

This is caveman_uk typing in one of the "3451315q21f" countries that is outside the US and consequently doesn't matter.
 
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