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arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
16,308
5,585
I doubt that Apple isn't aware that there's significant interest outside the US.

Other people have pointed out, it's likely more due to technical/legal/cost reasons than Apple not wanting to.

arn
 

Jaykay

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2002
550
0
Ireland
Originally posted by arn

Other people have pointed out, it's likely more due to technical/legal/cost reasons than Apple not wanting to.

I agree. I assume that for the music service, the "big 5" have different completely different setups outside america (especially legally) so it might take them a long time to set it up. But is it just me or were you surprised when Steve said they had 200,000 songs. I though they would have more, especially with the Big 5 on board - or are they only letting apple use a certain amount of their music?
 

Mr. MacPhisto

macrumors 6502
Jan 16, 2003
281
0
Originally posted by Jaykay
I agree. I assume that for the music service, the "big 5" have different completely different setups outside america (especially legally) so it might take them a long time to set it up. But is it just me or were you surprised when Steve said they had 200,000 songs. I though they would have more, especially with the Big 5 on board - or are they only letting apple use a certain amount of their music?

I think it's just that they haven't gotten everything online yet. Remember, he said that they were, in several cases, going to masters to get the songs. This takes a lot of work. Since they've been working on it for 18 months, my guess is they've actually been getting the songs ready for less than a year. 200,000 ain't so bad in that light.
 

Squire

macrumors 68000
Jan 8, 2003
1,563
0
Canada
International Mac Users

Hi.

Some of you may have already seen this. It's a petition. I'm only posting it because of my huge disappointment when I realized that the iTunes Music Store was for US customers only. I was even more depressed after browsing. At last count, there were about 3400 names.

Anyway, if you live outside the US (or if you just agree with what it has to say), you might want to sign this petition.

Thanks,

Squire

http://www.petitiononline.com/AppleInt/petition.html
 

Squire

macrumors 68000
Jan 8, 2003
1,563
0
Canada
Originally posted by steeleclipse
is there any way to get this to the main page... MODERATOR?

The Main Page? That would be cool.

Seriously, though, the petition also brings up the point of the iPhoto books. After I read it, I sort of thought that, if the trend continues, international users are geting ripped off.

My 24 Won ($.02 at today's exchange rate)

Squire
 

melchior

macrumors 65816
Nov 17, 2002
1,228
109
Re: International Mac Users

Originally posted by Squire
Hi.

At last count, there were close to 4000 names.

http://www.petitiononline.com/AppleInt/petition.html

why would you say that when there are 3418 as of this minute, a good 34 minutes later than your statement....

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...
 

Squire

macrumors 68000
Jan 8, 2003
1,563
0
Canada
Re: Re: International Mac Users

Originally posted by melchior
why would you say that when there are 3418 as of this minute, a good 34 minutes later than your statement....

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...

Sorry. I thought it said 3800. My post has been edited accordingly.

From SpyMac: "Back in January, a petition was launched for tab support in Safari and collected more than 4000 digital signatures."

Maybe it had an impact and maybe it didn't. For 15 seconds of one's time, it can't hurt.

Squire
 

steeleclipse

macrumors 6502
Nov 7, 2002
363
0
Canada
actually... the idea to put superdrives in powerbooks was from a petition... AND you will notice that in ALL of Steve's presentation's, he talks about why new features were implemented, and how most of them were requested BY APPLE USERS. For proof, watch yesterday's webcast (ipod dock, usb2, etc.)

we are also missing a very important point... international sales brings larger profits. Will Steve argue with that???
 

Kwyjibo

macrumors 68040
Nov 5, 2002
3,809
0
i think the superdrive was a logical progression, typically pettions do nothing, and it doesn't need to be on the main page......
 

nichrome

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2003
38
0
Finland
Dumb, huh?

Before you label it as dumb, consider that they're spending money they're getting worldwide to create services that benefit either primarily US customers (Sherlock) or only US customers (iTunes Music Store, iPhoto prints/books).

The point isn't that Apple should bring the iTunes Music Store to Europe, Asia, etc. Apple knows there's demand, and they're working on arranging supply on that front. The point is that they've skipped bringing many other, smaller but still useful services to these markets. For instance, the iPhoto prints service.

Also, many international users would rather see Apple develop services and features that benefit all users as equally as possible. Having everything launch US first or US only is bad politics, bad PR.
 

unfaded

macrumors 6502
Dec 12, 2002
276
0
Seattle, WA
Re: Dumb, huh?

Originally posted by nichrome
Also, many international users would rather see Apple develop services and features that benefit all users as equally as possible. Having everything launch US first or US only is bad politics, bad PR.

No. Politics are based around Economics. The rest of the world may be bigger population-wise, by the US has 50% of the world's wealth. Macs are not cheap, and neither are the things they use. Bringing it out in the home country of a company which has expensive products when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by far is not bad politics, it's common sense.

I hate it, and I don't like this country. But economically speaking (and yes, I am economist), it's the logical choice to make.
 

synp

macrumors member
May 22, 2001
64
4
My take on this

IMO this is both a legal and commercial issue.

In many countries, music is not distributed directly by the big 5, but by some local distributor with exclusive rights. If Sony sells me a song, they may be in breach of their contract with the local distributor. They will eventually have new agreements with the local distributors where they get some part of the 60c that Apple pays them. After all, they do spend money on promoting the various artists in their respective countries.
There is also the question of local artists. These may have contracts with local companies (sometimes the same as those local distributors). Apple may feel that it is wrong to start the service in, say, Israel if they don't have Sarit Hadad's songs up there.

In some countries there may also be a customs issue. Buying a song for a buck is still importing.

As for iPhoto's prints and books, it makes no sense to print pictures or books in the US and ship them all over the world. They would probably want to come to some agreement with local photofinishers. It seems incredible that they haven't found such at least in Europe, Australia and SE Asia. My guess is that they're not trying hard enough.
 

nichrome

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2003
38
0
Finland
Re: Re: Dumb, huh?

Originally posted by unfaded
when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by far
Let's be realistic. Right now, the US is among the most fragile economies of the western world, and has the largest number of people living under the poverty line in relation to population of the western countries. The floundering US economy is why the Euro's price has jumped from around 0.9 USD to 1.096 recently, showing that the faith in the US economy is weak. In terms of expensing power, the population of the United States does not make up 50 % of the world economy, unlike you seem to suggest. The US as a country and as a government does hold a lot of money, but it's the people who buy music and other goods.
 

dekator

macrumors regular
May 18, 2002
178
0
Krautistan
Re: Re: International Mac Users

Originally posted by melchior

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...

1) I don't think it's a legal or technical problem. a. because Apple is an (supposedly) international company and could have talked to representatives in other countries or, indeed, have worked out contracts for (at least specific) other countries. Every company has to do that when launching a product. Defending Apple here seems a little silly. b. It's certainly not a technical problem as Apple provides (as they say themselves) oceans of bits anyway. In fact the iTunes Music Store is easily accessible from Europe and pretty darn fast, too. That cannot be the problem.
I guess the problem is that Apple doesn't have competent staff to do negotiations or serious localizations etc.. They just can't do it, they're too small, too narrow minded. There is still no international Sherlock channel, there is no iPhoto ordering service. Take Germany: People that have developed respective Sherlock channels have been banned from doing so by Apple (!). Online photo services are entirely commonplace. It would be the easiest thing in the world to hook up with a company for cooperation. Only Mac users are left out.
Market share: What good does it do when you walk around telling people how innovative Apple is when, at the same moment, you have to tell them that "that's all only in the US". Especially in the current mood that will make people say "crap, those monomanic Americans".
Frankly, it surprises me that Apple still has the market share it has outside the US. We're paying much more for much less value. Apple is having us on, but maybe not for long.

2) How come you say it is no use. If anything is of use, it's that. Whenever there were feature requests and petitions it helped. I think this will help Apple understand they have to review their policies. I firmly believe that the petition will receive consideration and thus affect decisions.

3) Preview: If Apple doesn't throw around the stearing wheel some time soon, it will quickly be "US only". That would, however, fit the American Zeitgeist.
 

nichrome

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2003
38
0
Finland
Re: My take on this

Originally posted by synp
As for iPhoto's prints and books, it makes no sense to print pictures or books in the US and ship them all over the world. They would probably want to come to some agreement with local photofinishers. It seems incredible that they haven't found such at least in Europe, Australia and SE Asia. My guess is that they're not trying hard enough.
Exactly, especially seeing as the iPhoto prints service in the US is the result of partnerships with companies that have strong presences in the rest of the world, too. It's not like Apple would've needed to go looking for partners in the first place -- they could've just expanded their partnerships with the companies they're currently working with in the US to provide iPhoto prints and books worldwide.
 

redAPPLE

macrumors 68030
May 7, 2002
2,638
2
2 Much Infinite Loops
Originally posted by Squire
The Main Page? That would be cool.

Seriously, though, the petition also brings up the point of the iPhoto books. After I read it, I sort of thought that, if the trend continues, international users are geting ripped off.



Squire

international users are getting! :)

ripped off????

WHA???

if Apple does not want "Old Europe's" money, then that's their problem, right?
 

melchior

macrumors 65816
Nov 17, 2002
1,228
109
Re: Re: Re: International Mac Users

Originally posted by dekator
1) I don't think it's a legal or technical problem.

i believe it is a legal issue. statutory copyright laws will impede many possible endeavors, while in the US those laws are written by the corporations anyway so it doesn't matter.

take a look at the EU, they have standardised a lot of the copyright laws, however, they just, somehow, seemed to miss the music industry and thus it stays a very closed and proprietary market.

japan on the other hand is very open and i suspect a service here would be very eary since no one gives a damn about copyright anyway. the country where the equivalent of blockbuster rents huge libraries of cd's and warns that some cd's are 80 minutes instead of 72 minutes... and proceeds to sell you the correct cdr's.
 

nichrome

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2003
38
0
Finland
Re: Re: Re: Re: International Mac Users

Originally posted by melchior
japan on the other hand is very open and i suspect a service here would be very eary since no one gives a damn about copyright anyway.
Japan is quite strict about intellectual property rights. No country is willingly loose on those, despite the fact that the part of Asia to the west of Japan is home to lots of piracy.

Also, US companies trying to break into the Japanese marketplace are likely to face an uphill battle due to the fact that Japan as a market greatly prefers Japanese goods. For instance, Japan is the only market of the major three market regions (USA, Europe, Japan) in which Microsoft's Xbox is currently selling less than Nintendo's GameCube.

Apple does have a fan base in Japan -- a strong one, too -- but the company has traditionally been a player in the PC business. By selling music goods and services in Japan it would be going head-on with Japan-native Sony, which has been stiff competition for Apple even in the PC marketplace, even though Sony's main business is home electronics, including music, plus the related services. So it'd be (or it will be) a tough battle.

Plus, you'd have to consider how big an impact it makes that Japan is not a very English-oriented market -- foreign goods need to be heavily localized, dubbed, et cetera since English is not as widely understood there as in some other parts of the world (Europe, for instance). Thus the Music Store would need to contain a fair bit of Japanese artists in order to do well, I'd wager.
 

chewbaccapits

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2001
630
0
Torrance, Californizzel
Re: Re: Dumb, huh?

Originally posted by unfaded
No. Politics are based around Economics. The rest of the world may be bigger population-wise, by the US has 50% of the world's wealth. Macs are not cheap, and neither are the things they use. Bringing it out in the home country of a company which has expensive products when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by far is not bad politics, it's common sense.

I hate it, and I don't like this country. But economically speaking (and yes, I am economist), it's the logical choice to make.

Great arguement til you stated that you didn't like the US...Leave if you don't like it :)
 
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