Petrol tops £1 a litre!

[dops7107]

~snip~

Lots of good points Glen. I for one thought today: if I had to ask Mr Blair a question, it would be "what are you going to do to encourage people to use trains rather than planes?" Because at the minute the answer is sod all. It's a joke. I went to Barcelona last year and was stunned by how cheap and efficient their urban train system was. It cost about €5 to get from the airport to the city centre. Try doing that in our green and pleasant land.

 

[0098386]

It's times like this I'm glad I can't afford a car. I'm having a great time cycling and walking, or getting the bus when it's just too far.

Even though UK buses are a joke. I mean they say no smoking, yet people smoke. Even the drivers! ho hum. and £3.50 (IIRC) for a day saver! I remember paying £2.50 for them. thank got for an annual bus pass. they work out at like £4 a week so all you need to do is use the buses more than twice a week.

 

[Applespider]

The government (in the UK) need to throw billions at the public transportation system to improve the railways (why do people need to take a flight from London to Edinburgh - pointless), .

As someone who regularly catches a flight between London and Edinburgh, I'll respond as to why.
The plane is quicker (even with 30 minutes check in and trip to the airport) which makes a big difference if I'm only going for a weekend to see my family. I can get from my door to my mother in 4.5 hours as opposed to 6.5 - particularly important on a Friday evening and so I get to spend Sunday with the family rather than on the train on my own)
The plane is cheaper (£70 including a drink and snack as opposed to £95 without)
The plane is cleaner, less crowded and far more pleasant (unless you travel GNER first class which adds another £50 to the train fare).
And if the flight is delayed, it's at the airport so I can get drinks/food/extra books rather than in the middle of a field near Doncaster for 2 hours while everything on the train runs out.

But hey, since I use public transport for the rest of the year, not owning a car, I'm a little less worried about my personal greeness in catching a flight.

 

[FireArse]

As someone who regularly catches a flight between London and Edinburgh, I'll respond as to why.

Trains are far more efficient (can you get more efficient power generation than UK power Stations?) than planes especially at this long distance.

If the UK government wanted a safe, reliable and FAST system - it'd install the SNCF system that underpins the Eurostar. Outside countries acknowledge the French system as fantastic, and are adopting the technology - London to Endinburgh at 200MPH with a few stops would be amazing - and would be quicker and environmentally friendlier than plane.

Aviation fuel isn't taxed at anywhere near the same rates as unleaded. I really think we should try and slow down the aviation industry than allow it to prosper and flurish like it is. Wait till India and China have their versions of EasyJets and Ryan Air's, that's when we'll know we're up the creek.

We (The West) are building these planes to support our industries and jobs - but we know the strain it'll cause our Oil prices and environment will be devastating.

Should we allow these vehicules to be delivered to the Developing countries? I am cynical about these CO2 targets - I think Governments have ways of making it look rosier than it really is.

I make an effort to switch stuff off - anyone know how much power my Dual PPC PM uses on 'sleep' ? Should I sleep or turn off at nights?

F

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Here in Indiana, its only $2.75 gal, although its been around $3 last week.

The good thing, though, is that they're putting in a bio fuels plant just down south of us. Indiana wants to be the leading in bio fuel production putting in 10 plants over the next couple years to create a 1 billion barrel per year production capability.

Go Corn!

D

 

[Maxiseller]

People over here would be going ******* if gas hit $8 a gallon. We'd probably just shift all our troops from Iraq to Saudi Arabia and drain the whole damn country of oil.

I take mass-transit everywhere, I think I've used a car maybe once a month and the trips were very short.

This summer I'm just going to park my car at my house and use my bike to get places, it's going to get very expensive to drive this summer.

Stupid energy policy FTW!

That made me laugh!

You know what though, I think you have a good point. Us brits just roll over and let people pi** all over us, and then they tell us that "we can't help it, the price of oil has gone up" Well.....LOWER THE FRIKKIN TAX THEN!

G Brown needs a good kicking if you ask me...he should TRY using Public Transport all the time; trust me I have experience -

Going between my house and Birmingam City Centre 6 days a week (20 mile journey) is no fun when (and I'm not exaggerating) 40 - 50 % of trains are more than 10 - 15 minutes late; of those 20% are cancelled or "severely" delayed - 80% are dirty horrible things; the station is appauling; there is almost always a gang of teens smoking pot and abusing other people...the list goes on.

Don't even get me started on busses...

I know that Public Transport isn't that bad elsewhere...I've had great experiences with Virgin going to London...but the infastructure is better there anyway.

 

[bitfactory]

Because, if you hadn't noticed, tax is a disincentive, thus reducing profligate fuel use. Additionally, tax has positive benefits through the redistribution of wealth.

Spoken like a true Socialist.

 

[FireArse]

grrrrr

Here in Indiana, its only $2.75 gal, although its been around $3 last week.

I don't think fuel has EVER gone down by 8% in the UK.

As for biofuel - maybe CaveMan can come in with his Chemical Engineering knowledge - but isn't that more environmentally expensive than unleaded? i.e. doesn't it cost more to make it suitable for cars than just using unleaded?

Electric cars and HUGE taxes on unleaded for those who like to plant their right foot every now and then.

And HUGE duties for Aviation fuel, making it fairer and more attractive to use the more environmentally sound train.

F

 

[Chundles]

I don't think fuel has EVER gone down by 8% in the UK.

As for biofuel - maybe CaveMan can come in with his Chemical Engineering knowledge - but isn't that more environmentally expensive than unleaded? i.e. doesn't it cost more to make it suitable for cars than just using unleaded?

Electric cars and HUGE taxes on unleaded for those who like to plant their right foot every now and then.

And HUGE duties for Aviation fuel, making it fairer and more attractive to use the more environmentally sound train.

F

If they're going to tax the bejesus out of DOMESTIC airtravel (won't work here, air travel is the fastest way between cities without a shadow of a doubt. Then they should pour all that money into making the trains clean, comfortable, FAST AS FAST CAN BE, safe, safe, safe, and devoid of the whackos that so frequent the railways. The stations need to be upgraded too.

Until trains can really compete with planes (4.5 hours SYD-Perth vs. 3 days+ by train) in terms of speed, comfort and convenience (all possible with $$$) I think the focus really needs to be on reducing the need for carbon in generating electricity. This will give us the ability to focus on alternative fuels for cars, buses and trains. Planes are much harder to swap the fossil fuels out of as yet - there's nothing that gives enough grunt for inter-continental travel (that's most of our flights here).

 

[Applespider]

Trains are far more efficient (can you get more efficient power generation than UK power Stations?) than planes especially at this long distance.

I don't disagree. I used to catch the trains when the flights were twice the price and the couple of hours time didn't mean as much.

I was just pointing out that while it's dearer, longer and more unpleasant, there's no wonder that more people are flying.

The problem is that people won't invest in the trains until the demand is shown to be there (or it's legislated) and the demand won't be there (although with the speed the cheap tickets sell out, it could be) until the service is better.

It wasn't until all the low-cost airways set up that the cost of air travel dropped. Unfortunately, given the state of the UK's crowded rail infrastructure where they're reducing trains since it's at capacity, having new operators is tricky.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Speaking of trains and airplanes, the big Southern California regional transportation agency rather recently constructed a passenger rail system that runs to within about a mile of, but not to, Los Angeles International Airport. What's more, no plans are on the books to make any rail connection to LAX, one of the most congested airports in the world.

Makes everyone else's transportation problems pale in comparison, I think.

 

[Chundles]

Speaking of trains and airplanes, the big Southern California regional transportation agency rather recently constructed a passenger rail system that runs to within about a mile of, but not to, Los Angeles International Airport. What's more, no plans are on the books to make any rail connection to LAX, one of the most congested airports in the world.

Makes everyone else's transportation problems pale in comparison, I think.

I'm going to rate that last statement as "Biggest Call of the Night."

That is a very, very big call.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I'm going to rate that last statement as "Biggest Call of the Night."

That is a very, very big call.

Not sure how I'm supposed to take that.

My point is, building a passenger rail system near but not to the airport pins the stupidity meter. I can hardly imagine "transportation planning" being any more obviously useless.

 

[paddy]

I still think petrol is GREAT value. It costs more for 500mls of Coke here the a litre of (€1.30 versus around €1.16). Oil is seriously undervalued at the moment. We need more efficient alternatives in the short term and bio-fuels in the long term e.g. rapeseed oil which can be added to normal petrol engines with moderate modifications.

 

[dops7107]

I still think petrol is GREAT value. It costs more for 500mls of Coke here the a litre of (€1.30 versus around €1.16). Oil is seriously undervalued at the moment. We need more efficient alternatives in the short term and bio-fuels in the long term e.g. rapeseed oil which can be added to normal petrol engines with moderate modifications.

Good point. The same is true for bottle mineral water - how can people stomach paying more for water than they do for petrol?

 

[OutThere]

1 £/liter (avg british price) = 6.76 $/gallon

3.00 $/gallon (avg u.s. price) = 0.44 £/liter

damn

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

That made me laugh!

You know what though, I think you have a good point. Us brits just roll over and let people pi** all over us, and then they tell us that "we can't help it, the price of oil has gone up" Well.....LOWER THE FRIKKIN TAX THEN!

G Brown needs a good kicking if you ask me...he should TRY using Public Transport all the time; trust me I have experience -

Going between my house and Birmingam City Centre 6 days a week (20 mile journey) is no fun when (and I'm not exaggerating) 40 - 50 % of trains are more than 10 - 15 minutes late; of those 20% are cancelled or "severely" delayed - 80% are dirty horrible things; the station is appauling; there is almost always a gang of teens smoking pot and abusing other people...the list goes on.

Don't even get me started on busses...

I know that Public Transport isn't that bad elsewhere...I've had great experiences with Virgin going to London...but the infastructure is better there anyway.

Shame I did not get a chance yet to see other cities in the UK. Your transit system sounds like of DC Metro system. The exact opposite of my experiences on several of the lines between Hammersmith and some of the tourist spots that I mentioned.

For me being on Holiday, it was a different experience. Had no real time crunch, though a late train may have led me missing a Tower Of London tour. I also had one of those passes that allowed me use of all Underground stations and the buses all day long. It made it cheap to get around. And that is the key IMO to get people out of their cars and on to public transit. Make it cheap enough, so there is no reason not to take it.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Speaking of trains and airplanes, the big Southern California regional transportation agency rather recently constructed a passenger rail system that runs to within about a mile of, but not to, Los Angeles International Airport. What's more, no plans are on the books to make any rail connection to LAX, one of the most congested airports in the world.

Makes everyone else's transportation problems pale in comparison, I think.

I know the pain. Dulles Airport and BWI do not have rail links at the terminals. Dulles might see one sometime between 2011 and 2015 if schedules can be kept. Guess I am spoiled in my trips to SF, Chicago, and London with their great transit systems.

I can only guess the reason why rail did not reach LAX is pork barrel politics that gives the Dulles Flyer almost exclusive rights to reasonable access to Dulles Airport (at $9 each way) for airport passengers (there is the 5A, but that does not have great luggage space). While DC Metro offers an express bus from Greenbelt Metro station to BWI for $3 each way (with hiback seats and plenty of luggage space).

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

1 £/liter (avg british price) = 6.76 $/gallon

3.00 $/gallon (avg u.s. price) = 0.44 £/liter

damn

How much of that is taxes in the UK?

Here is the US the average federal and state tax burden is about 40 cents per a gallon.

 

[gekko513]

Spoken like a true Socialist.

That's not an argument for or against anything.

 

[dops7107]

How much of that is taxes in the UK?

Approx. 75%. Tax was meant to go up every year by more than inflation ("the fuel duty escalator") but this has been frozen in recent years because the price of oil is doing the same job. The problem with petrol/gas is that' it's so price-inelastic: doubling the price will not halve demand.

 

[paddy]

Approx. 75%. Tax was meant to go up every year by more than inflation ("the fuel duty escalator") but this has been frozen in recent years because the price of oil is doing the same job. The problem with petrol/gas is that' it's so price-inelastic: doubling the price will not halve demand.

Agreed. The government can jack up the prices all they want but unless they provide an alternative fuel source for us it just won't curb fuel consumption.

 

[FireArse]

Typical example

No offence to any yanks - this is just your way of doing things...

Another thread here talks about the frequency of servicing cars. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/197043/

iGary religiously services his car at 3000miles. And he has a very valid point - cos it only costs '$19.00 a pop' despite the car manufacturers stating in the car manual that this is more than 3 times more frequent than is needed. I work that out to be about £11. Can anyone get their car oil-changed in the UK for £11?!

But this is what the States is like.

You think this oil will keep flowing?
Could the oil have been used any better?
We need the States to realise this cannot be sustained, because their heavy use is gonna screw us all. Yeah the oil is $70/barrell, but how much will it cost to clean up your house/city/country when the weather turns all ***** due to Global Warming?

Its gonna bite us in the arse.

 

[OnceUGoMac]

That's because the rest of the world luuuurves supporting America's cheap petrol prices.

That's it, huh? Does U.K. produce or refine it's oil? If not, then it makes sense that a nation, such as the U.S., that produces and refines oil would have lower gas prices.

As you know it is dangerous to compare directly like that.

Based on my short visit to London in late February I view the Pound as being equal to the US Dollar in terms of we we lived there. A double burger at McDonalds is 99p in the UK, and 99 cents here in the US. With the job listings I saw seemed to 1 on 1 with what is offered here in the US (meaning that if a job paid 20k pounds, that same job would see 20k US $.

Your statement doesn't make sense. If it's 99p, then it's $1.75. If the job pays 20,000 pounds, that's $35,000. Also, you're ignoring the liter to gallon difference.

A great public transportation system is one of the things I love about Chicago.

It's not that great, unless you compare it to L.A. The CTA is marginal. The train pattern (the loop outwards) is inconvenient and leaves the buses to pick up the slack, the trains are gross and slow (waiting 20-30 minutes for a Forest Park Blue Line train is ridiculous), the buses are slow (10-40 minutes for the 91), and the train stations are disguting (even the newer Chicago Red Line Station leaves much to be desired).

The London Underground. Now that's a great public transportation system.

 

[Stella]

Holy ????. I'm going back to the UK for a vacation, I will not enjoy paying for petrol - thats like, over $2 Canadian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4941262.stm

Well, it already has here. Unleaded is now £1.02 per litre here!

Filled my Seat Leon Cupra up this morning and it cost me £52!!!!! Why the crap won't the goverment take of the 75p per litre tax they have or at least half it or something as its getting stupid now!

I know the US litre is slightly less than the UK but at these prices is $1.82 per litre or for my car in the US would cost $92 to fill up and I'm doing this every 10 days. Geez this sucks big style!