Phil Schiller: Apple Will Not Change Decision on 'Hey' Email App, No App Store Rule Updates Imminent

[usagora]

So Hey was right. How did Fastmail make it on the app store without IAP? Did someone in app review screw up or did Apple suddenly decide to change how they interpret/apply App Store rules?

Well, as I've been preaching, the rules are pretty clear and that's what Hey should have been going by, but it could very well be that the app in question was not scrutinized close enough initially. I can't imagine it was a deliberate pass/oversight for any reason. Perhaps Hey's "mountain out of a mole hill" approach has brought closer scrutiny for app compliance in this regard.

 

[Grohowiak]

Dunno if it was mentioned in this thread but people saying apple makes nothing on free apps is wrong.
Dev account is $100 + you bought the hardware to develop on.
Anybody that is distributing free apps on App Store is actually paying apple to be able to do so.

As for the Hey drama I dunno. Wish apple would go 20% considering you must get the dev account and their hardware to develop on.
Let me use windows machines and I'm fine with 30%

 

[smulji]

So Hey was right. How did Fastmail make it on the app store without IAP? Did someone in app review screw up or did Apple suddenly decide to change how they interpret/apply App Store rules?

 

[I7guy]

View attachment 925462

Interesting. To me, snarky question get reasoned reply. Makes Hey look kind of childish, and to me, takes the wind out of their sales.

 

[G.McGilli]

View attachment 925462

So Fastmail was asked to do the same thing as Hey - and they didn't start an online campaign to bitch and moan and complain that they'd already been approved and now Apple was trying to rob them...

Not the service I'm looking for but Fastmail would get my $.

And as noted by another - their level headed response is just night and day difference to Hey... It's like an adult responded compared to the stuff I've seen from Hey...

 

[ksec]

I’ve already answered this pages ago. Fastmail have a free tier and you can sign into the app and get basic usage for free. It even mentions this on the Fastmail App Store page.

‎Fastmail – Email & Calendar

‎Use the power and elegance of the Fastmail interface on the go. Your email, contacts, and calendars stay with you on mobile devices. * Get instant alerts for new mail arriving in folders that are important to you. * Search your entire email archive in seconds. * Schedule meetings, respond to...

apps.apple.com

And in case this get updated.

Next time you may want to Fact Check yourself.

Pricing

Compare the features and prices of Fastmail’s plans. Stop paying for your email with your privacy and get custom domains, masked email, and more with no ads or tracking.

www.fastmail.com

 

[Rogifan]

So Fastmail was asked to do the same thing as Hey - and they didn't start an online campaign to bitch and moan and complain that they'd already been approved and now Apple was trying to rob them...

Not the service I'm looking for but Fastmail would get my $.

And as noted by another - their level headed response is just night and day difference to Hey... It's like an adult responded compared to the stuff I've seen from Hey...

So every developer should just keep their mouth shut and let Apple be jerks? I’m glad Basecamp did this because according to John Gruber and Ben Thompson there are tons of other developers who fell the same way but can’t or won’t say anything out of fear. If this leads to better polices and thus better apps for everyone then good on Basecamp for stirring up a hornets nest here.
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Interesting. To me, snarky question get reasoned reply. Makes Hey look kind of childish, and to me, takes the wind out of their sales.

Why was Fasmail asked to update their app with IAP? Seems to me like there might be an issue with the App Store policies. Somehow these apps get approved and then after the fact Apple is like whoops that shouldn’t have been approved. Do app reviewers inside Apple not understand the policies or are higher ups interpreting the policies on the fly making it difficult for app review to be consistent? The fact that Schiller responded to this issue with Basecamp says to me its not lower level grunts making these decisions.

 

[ian87w]

‎Fastmail – Email & Calendar

‎Use the power and elegance of the Fastmail interface on the go. Your email, contacts, and calendars stay with you on mobile devices. * Get instant alerts for new mail arriving in folders that are important to you. * Search your entire email archive in seconds. * Schedule meetings, respond to...

apps.apple.com

And in case this get updated.

View attachment 925484

Next time you may want to Fact Check yourself.

Pricing

Compare the features and prices of Fastmail’s plans. Stop paying for your email with your privacy and get custom domains, masked email, and more with no ads or tracking.

www.fastmail.com

Fastmail was also contacted by Apple, and they are adding IAP.
Check a few posts above yours.

 

[smulji]

The fact that Schiller responded to this issue with Basecamp says to me its not lower level grunts making these decisions.

Schiller is the one in charge of and hence the spokesperson for the App Store. Of course he's going to respond. You think the low level grunts are going to respond? Chances are they're not allowed to speak to the media.

 

[theotherphil]

‎Fastmail – Email & Calendar

‎Use the power and elegance of the Fastmail interface on the go. Your email, contacts, and calendars stay with you on mobile devices. * Get instant alerts for new mail arriving in folders that are important to you. * Search your entire email archive in seconds. * Schedule meetings, respond to...

apps.apple.com

And in case this get updated.

View attachment 925484

Next time you may want to Fact Check yourself.

Pricing

Compare the features and prices of Fastmail’s plans. Stop paying for your email with your privacy and get custom domains, masked email, and more with no ads or tracking.

www.fastmail.com

Yep, the pertinent part is “verified your trial account”. But regardless, Fastmail have said on Twitter that they are going to IAP to give users more choice In the next update.

 

[Rogifan]

Schiller is the one in charge of and hence the spokesperson for the App Store. Of course he's going to respond. You think the low level grunts are going to respond? Chances are they're not allowed to speak to the media.

Not low level employees but someone from communications or PR. Not an interview with Schiller. Anyway this is not what Apple wants a few days before it’s developer conference. Guarantee you they‘re glad it‘s virtual this year. John Gruber says he’s having his show with special guests. If if’s Apple employees my guess is it won’t be Schiller or anyone from his team. It will be someone not at all involved with developer relations. If there’s a chip transition it probably will be a hardware guy. Will give Gruber an out.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

The great thing is that you can also buy a 1200 dollar android phone and install whatever you want on it. Walled garden is, and always has been part of the iOS experience. It means that all the apps are in the App Store, guaranteed, and scrutinised. It’s one of the reasons I Prefer Apple over Android or Windows. This means choice.

I like the confidence of knowing software on my phone is less likely to be malicious and that most of my data stays private, but that is the end of what I like about the walled garden.

 

[Rogifan]

Regarding IAP in general, I’m seeing some say Apple doesn’t force developers to only use IAP. That is true but because they can’t offer or even mention any other way in-app a lot of users probably assume Apple’s IAP is the only way to pay. Allowing another payment option in-app (or at least the mention of other options) doesn’t stop anyone from using IAP if they so choose (because they want all their payments/subscriptions in one place, think it’s more secure etc.).

 

[jonblatho]

Fastmail have a free tier and you can sign into the app and get basic usage for free.

No, it absolutely does not and you certainly cannot.

 

[LeeW]

$999 per year for an xx@hey.com and $345 per year for an xxx@hey.com, **** right off, pay Apple their cut if you can get away with charging that sort of money on an annual basis for an email address.

 

[Coconut Bean]

Here’s the thing. Apple is paying for the servers that process the in-app payment, the credit card processing, handling all the charge disputes and chargebacks/fraud requests from the credit card company, etc.

That’s not a $0 Bill for Apple. Credit card chargebacks cost businesses a significant amount of money, as well as employing the iTunes App Store support agents, data center infrastructure, they designed and built Xcode, add new features to iOS that enable new features in the apps, handle push notifications, etc.

And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.

No one is saying Apple shouldn't get a cut for processing payments. Just that forcing it as only solution as well as taking 30% cut is ********.

Take Netflix as an example. If they had IAP for subscription and apple would get 30% (or isn't it 15% for subscriptions?) Would that be fair?

Apple handles hosting of app and recurring payment once a month.

Netflix makes the shows, hosts all the movies, delivers it to you and millions of customers at the same time and also pays for all that content.

But apple thinks they are entitled to almost a third of the revenue... In my world that's leeching..

 

[theotherphil]

No, it absolutely does not and you certainly cannot.

So that’s where we’re going? Semantics?

Fastmail has a 30day FREE TRIAL, that once you confirm your email address, allows FULL functionality within the App. Regardless, Fastmail are going to IAP as of next release so further INCREASING choice for users And making the argument “How come Fastmail can do the same as Hey but is treated differently” moot.

Hey doesn’t. You need to PAY from day 1 or you have ZERO app functionality. By not going to IAP, Hey want to REDUCE choice to users.

 

[jonblatho]

So that’s where we’re going? Semantics?

Fastmail has a 30day FREE TRIAL, that once you confirm your email address, allows FULL functionality within the App. Regardless, Fastmail are going to IAP as of next release so further INCREASING choice for users.

Hey doesn’t. You need to PAY from day 1 or you have ZERO app functionality. By not going to IAP, Hey want to REDUCE choice to users.



View attachment 925515


View attachment 925516

Hey offers a 2-week free trial. The entire service is currently invite-only, but that’s just temporary leading up to a full public launch. I would assume that the 2-week free trial will be offered to all new customers after that time.

 

[theotherphil]

Hey offers a 2-week free trial. The entire service is currently invite-only, but that’s just temporary leading up to a full public launch. I would assume that the 2-week free trial will be offered to all new customers after that time.

But Apple are basing their decisions based on what is available today, not in x weeks time. Hey is invite only so the app has zero functionality right now if I decided to download it. This is the fundamental difference between Fastmail.

 

[jonblatho]

But Apple are basing their decisions based on what is available today, not in x weeks time. Hey is invite only so the app has zero functionality right now if I decided to download it. This is the fundamental difference between Fastmail.

When submitting an app that requires a login for added functionality, you must provide Apple with a sample account username and password that will allow them to examine what the app does for a logged-in user:

Beyond that, they don’t care whether a user can actually sign up for the service or the conditions one must meet to create a new account. It’d be like me downloading the app for a bank I don’t do business with, then getting upset about the app having “zero functionality” when I’m unable to create an account to use the app.

 

[LeeW]

It’d be like me downloading the app for a bank I don’t do business with, then getting upset about the app having “zero functionality” when I’m unable to create an account to use the app.

I guess that's the difference though, you are downloading the bank app because you either have an account or intend to apply for one, if you can't get an account then that is a different issue.

Anyone looks for mail apps in the store and comes across Hey, downloads it and is going to be annoyed that you then have to go to a link and pay $99 before even being allowed to see the App or try it out. That is after they first find out it is by invite only at the moment so even less chance of using it after download.

 

[I7guy]

I guess that's the difference though, you are downloading the bank app because you either have an account or intend to apply for one, if you can't get an account then that is a different issue.

Anyone looks for mail apps in the store and comes across Hey, downloads it and is going to be annoyed that you then have to go to a link and pay $99 before even being allowed to see the App or try it out. That is after they first find out it is by invite only at the moment so even less chance of using it after download.

I think that's the core issue as you mentioned. If Hey had a free trial this all would have been a moot point, except for Hey wanting IOS vast customer base, agreeing with the T&Cs for being a developer, but not paying the 30%. Can't blame them, but when their competition is updating with IAP, makes them look bad.

 

[theotherphil]

No one is saying Apple shouldn't get a cut for processing payments. Just that forcing it as only solution as well as taking 30% cut is ********.

Take Netflix as an example. If they had IAP for subscription and apple would get 30% (or isn't it 15% for subscriptions?) Would that be fair?

Apple handles hosting of app and recurring payment once a month.

Netflix makes the shows, hosts all the movies, delivers it to you and millions of customers at the same time and also pays for all that content.

But apple thinks they are entitled to almost a third of the revenue... In my world that's leeching..

Netflix has in app purchasing, as does Disney +, Amazon Prime and Spotify. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

[LeeW]

I don't really get the issue people keep bringing up with Netflix, but I have not really been following all of this.

I get that Netflix doesn't offer a subscription via the App store as they won't want Apple getting 15% of their annual revenue, but I have had a Netflix account for years and never downloaded the app on any Apple device.

There is no way I am going to move my payment to the App store just so I can download the app to watch something on my phone or iPad if I wanted.

Is Apple saying that even if downloading the Hey app to allow logins to an email account already purchased will not be allowed as they do not get revenue from it? That is not what I interpreted from all this, but as I say, might be wrong, not really following.
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Netflix has in app purchasing,

I just looked, it doesn't.

 

[usagora]

There is no way I am going to move my payment to the App store just so I can download the app to watch something on my phone or iPad if I wanted.

You wouldn't have to. Netflix is considered a "reader app" and thus doesn't fall under the same IAP requirement as Hey does. It's simply a way to access the content you've already paid for on your phone.