Phil Schiller Claims Customers Aren't Asking for Built-In Blu-Ray Anymore

[Porco]

It is literally INCREDIBLE to read so many posts repeating points that have been addressed again and again on these very forums.

"well just buy an external BD drive then..."
That doesn't solve the lack of official, solid OS-level movie playback that only Apple can really provide.

"there's no point watching BD on a computer anyway"
Yes there is, in terms of both quality and accessibility to an existing catalogue of titles one might own. Should Apple block iTunes movies from being viewable on a mac?

"iTunes HD"
Just no. On every level except for convenience (and only then for people with great internet connections) Blu-ray discs are superior.

"Blu-ray is expnsive"
No, it can be if you spend lots on big box sets and brand new titles that have only just been released, in a physical store and you don't shop around. alike anything. But there are many more cheap Blu-ray discs than (always inferior and worse value IMHO) cheap iTunes HD titles.

"no-one cares, downloads/streaming is the future"
Evidentally people do care, and the internet still has a long way to go before it can deliver everyone BD quality.

"well. if you don't like how Apple does things, use a PC"
No, that's a stupid false dichotomy. I can like Apple's OS better and still want it to improve by one single feature. Only the very worst victims of mindless fanboy sycophancy would claim everything about Apple and OS X is totally perfect, it's a silly, meaningless point.

"Apple are doing well without blu-ray, so they obviously don't need it"
Another flawed, meaningless argument - we don't know they couldn't do better still by offering the option of BD movie playback support to those who want it.

"I hate optical drives, why should I pay for one?!"
Sure. That's why all BD-loving mac fans want is the option. A lack of built-in BD drives isn't the worst thing in the world, but Apple's lack of OS-level support from those who want to bring their own BD drive is political, controlling and unhelpful to many of its loyal customers.

"Blu-ray is dead/sucks/is lame"
No. It's still a format with rising sales, an impressive and increasing back catalogue of titles, and a wealth of choice when it comes to playback equipment. It's just sad that Apple would rather push iTunes instead of providing the choice, when people who care about quality are not going to settle, it's a different market.

 

[linux2mac]

Never said it would be soon. Just that the writing is on the wall.



So it's irrelevant that streaming growth is fivefold on the positive side while physical media growth is in the negative? How is that irrelevant to the debate about trends in media consumption? On the contrary it IS the whole point.



Again, don't know where you got the "soon". The trend is already here. The discs will be around quite a while as they die out.






"Glee"? Facts are facts. Physical media is dying, streaming is growing at a fantastic rate. I don't take any particular pleasure in the death of physical media in general. I personally got rid of hundreds of DVDs and Blu Rays in 2009 and haven't been happier since. But that's because I now enjoy watching what I want, when I want, without storing and maintaining a large physical disc library and waiting for players to boot, discs to spin up, corporate logos, splash screens, previews, and menus before every movie I watch.



I find it more odd that you feel so protective of a media format. Yes, Apple fans like quality products. But we don't insist on new, high-tech cassette players, 8-track tape players, or VHS players in our Apple products. And we don't insist on optical players anymore. Most of us are ready to move on. I think Apple timed it right. They kept giving us optical players until we were no longer using them. (I haven't used the optical drives in my last 3 MacBook Pros.) Yes, I realize some people still use them. But that dwindling minority can't dictate the market. Nor can they stop the inevitable. Why are some so afraid of the future?

I agree with you Scooby. Your exchange with the lovers of physical media reminds of the infamous "Blu-ray thread of 2010". LOL!

Like you, "I enjoy watching what I want, when I want." I laugh at the idiots standing in line at the local Red Box hoping their title of choice is in stock. I do not recall iTunes ever being out of stock of any movie I wanted to rent.

And speaking of "the future"...............

The epic sci-fi thriller PROMETHEUS is also available today on DIGITAL HD™ for less than $15, arriving three weeks before Blu-ray,

"BOOM!"

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...entury-Fox Advances-Entertainment-Digital-HD™

 

[jmgregory1]

Well, sort of. Yes, about Apple wanting to keep people tied to their own system, but I think they're jumping the gun on removing drives from their computers. - And making fun of those who have software (or music) on discs by saying they're "stuck in the past" is just a low move. Sounds like desperate cajoling to me, not the talk of a company bravely forging ahead.

And, like others, I'm not bothering to complain about the lack of Bluray drives. I just bought an external BD reader and use it to rip discs for my iMac. I'm not "stuck in the past." I'm "living in the present" and I'll "deal with the future" later when it presents itself in a way that makes it much easier than it does today (and better quality than iTunes streaming).

At some point you have to make the leap to whatever is new or you do find yourself stuck in the past. There's nothing wrong with using old tech or old anything to get done what you need to and obviously those wanting a solution to BD can find it as you point out. But Apple choses to make tough decisions to push forward, even when the easy answer would be to just do what people are asking for.

I, for one, don't want Apple to start acting like Dell or Sony or any of the other computer companies that throw everything they can into a computer just in case someone wants a certain tech.

 

[Porco]

I, for one, don't want Apple to start acting like Dell or Sony or any of the other computer companies that throw everything they can into a computer just in case someone wants a certain tech.

Because Apple forces you to buy that fibre channel card they sell for the Mac Pro don't they? Oh wait... it can be optional.

 

[henk53]

Blu-ray is so yesterday.

No, it's not.

Today Blu-ray simply offers the best quality. It's not so much a matter of streaming vs optical, but about the quality of the encode. Blu-ray is 1080p at high-bitrate (~50MBps).

Streaming solutions simply don't offer this. Period.

Then there's the cost of storage. If you want to keep your downloads, you have to store it locally. Prices of storage are coming down rapidly, but are still not that low so they can compete with Blu-ray.

For example, Game of Thrones is $38.99 on iTunes USA, and $44.99 on Blu-ray (Amazon USA). But not included in the iTunes price is the 250GB of local storage that you need. This represents a value of ~$14, so the iTunes version is actually $53.74 (based on e.g. this drive: http://www.amazon.com//dp/B008YAHW6I)

Practically, you can't keep adding these internal drives to your PC or Mac, so you'd need some kind of enclosure and/or NAS system to stack them, further driving up the costs.

Then there's the UK market... where downloading a series from iTunes is often MUCH more expensive, without taking the storage into account. E.g. Gaving and Stacey series 1 -3 is 29.99 pound, while the Blu-ray is only 14.75 (http://amazon.co.uk/dp/B002QH4R4K), and is MUCH better quality AND includes the Christmas Special AND doesn't cost you any additional local storage.

In all markets, I see tons of Blu-rays that can be obtained between ~5 and 10 pound, which is almost always a much better deal than any download.

I'm sure at one point in the future streaming solutions will be superior and cheaper, but not today, not next year and probably not even the year after that.

If you want the BEST today, for the BEST price, then there's no way around Blu-ray.

 

[samcraig]

It's ok - I laugh at the idiots who believe they are getting a true HD experience and/or justify sacrificing quality is BETTER. Convenient - sure. But never better.

I agree with you Scooby. Your exchange with the lovers of physical media reminds of the infamous "Blu-ray thread of 2010". LOL!

Like you, "I enjoy watching what I want, when I want." I laugh at the idiots standing in line at the local Red Box hoping their title of choice is in stock. I do not recall iTunes ever being out of stock of any movie I wanted to rent.

And speaking of "the future"...............

The epic sci-fi thriller PROMETHEUS is also available today on DIGITAL HD™ for less than $15, arriving three weeks before Blu-ray,

"BOOM!"

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...entury-Fox Advances-Entertainment-Digital-HD™

 

[scoobydoo99]

Utter rubbish. Where was the mile long license agreement I agreed to when I purchased all of my CDs, DVDs and Blurays? I own that copy of the movie and I can do what I please with it as long it doesn't impede the fact that I purchased a copy that is intended personal use only. I can happily copy all of my physical format media to my computer without breaking any law. It is when I start handing out illicit copies or making money from viewings that I'm breaking the law.

Buying digital content is however is unfortunately different. Most times I'm unable to sell, copy or even play my content on alternative devices due to restrictions placed and the threat of me losing my content. To hell with that, I'll stick with my physical copies for the majority of my stuff. I'm able to take a DVD or Bluray round to a friends house and guarantee they'll have a device that will play it. I cannot say the same for iTunes which runs horribly on most computers anyway.

Rubbish, eh? LOL. You should do a little research before spewing complete nonsense.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the anti-circumvention provisions of the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)? The MPAA doesn't need a EULA, they have laws on their side.

You may "happily" copy the content from your Blu Rays to your computer, you just won't be doing it legally. Circumventing the copy protection (which is required to COPY the content) is illegal. So, yes, you are a criminal if you do that. You do NOT own the movie, and you CANNOT do what you please with it. The law is very clear on these issues, and the MPAA is well protected. You purchased the right to view a COPY of the content, under very strict guidelines.

You have no more rights with a movie on a disc than with a movie purchased digitally. The only difference is that you can carry out your illegal activites more easily with a disc than with a downloaded file (assuming you purchased the file through a legal channel).

I don't support the draconian laws in these cases. They are ridiculous. But you should be aware of them and not claim that physical media is superior to digitally streamed/downloaded data based upon a faulty understanding of your "rights" to the content.

 

[Nickerbocker]

I don't own a bluray player and don't think I ever will at this point. Don't see the point. I can see the quality difference between bluray, dvd, and iTunes/Netflix/Amazon Prime "HD" digital download. But for me, seeing a few extra pixels really hasn't improved my movie watching experience at all.

 

[Macintosh-HD]

Blu-ray is so yesterday.

Not until blazing fast internet access (like >40 MBps) becomes readily available, Blu-ray will be here to stay for the best quality. Period.

 

[Xiroteus]

You may "happily" copy the content from your Blu Rays to your computer, you just won't be doing it legally. Circumventing the copy protection (which is required to COPY the content) is illegal. So, yes, you are a criminal if you do that. You do NOT own the movie, and you CANNOT do what you please with it. The law is very clear on these issues, and the MPAA is well protected. You purchased the right to view a COPY of the content, under very strict guidelines.

Most people don't care, they can refuse to pirate, they will not copy and sell, they will not do anything that it wrong, placing content you own to your computer is not wrong regardless of what they say, personally I would find a lot of legal things far more criminal then coping your own movies to a hard drive.

If someone wants to add a movie they own to their iPhone they are likely just going to copy it because there is nothing truly wrong with doing so.

You have no more rights with a movie on a disc than with a movie purchased digitally. The only difference is that you can carry out your illegal activites more easily with a disc than with a downloaded file (assuming you purchased the file through a legal channel).

Even if one does not copy it over, there is still far more control, it is not going anywhere, can sell, trade, give it away etc...

 

[scoobydoo99]

You might not have pronounced BD "dead" today - but in turn I never said YOU took glee in its death. I said some people.

And lastly, in reference to your last paragraph - I don't think anyone is scared of the future. I think people have stated quite clearly that they don't need the optical drive specifically - but rather support in the OS.

And here's where we differ to. Until there's an actual replacement (.h265) or internet speeds allow much higher throughput - it's very pre-mature for a lot of people to believe and/or "phase out" what is the best experience in home video/audio. It's not a fear of the future. It's the fact that most people are living in the present. I look forward to the day when physical media isn't needed and there's a viable replacement. But guess what - that's years away. And as THAT time gets closer, I'm all for transitioning.

I've converted my 800+ dvd collection to streaming. Love all the benefits you list. But I haven't converted one blu-ray. Because I value quality.

p.s. on a side note - I'll just add that the minor inconvenience and minute or two between putting a disk in and watching a movie is well worth the quality. Someone who needs to shave 1-2 minutes at most (in my opinion) when they are about to sit back and relax and enjoy a 2 hour movie (to me) is a bit nutty.

So, the more you define your position, the more I probably agree with you. I certainly asknowledge the superiority of Blu Ray in video and audio and the fact that it will continue to be superior for some time. It is, as you say, the "best experience" in home theater. Before I dumped my DVDs and Blu Rays 3 years ago, I enjoyed them in my home theater with 7.1 custom in-wall speakers, high-end components, and Pioneer Kuro plasma. It was incredible. Personally, I have made the conscious decision to live with a lower quality experience in exchange for convenience. That's not everyone's decision. I just found that, when I'm hanging out, surfing available content, it's easier to press "play" for streaming content than to get up, find the disc, boot it up, and watch.

As for OS support for Blu Ray and all optical interfaces, I agree - put it in there. Everyone should have those capabilities if they want to use them.

You say you look forward to replacing physical media when there's a viable alternative, no disagreement there. I just made the switch before the quality is there and can live with the lower quality during these transition years. I understand if you don't want to do that.

Finally, regarding the "minute or two between putting a disk in and watching a movie", perhaps technology has inproved since I used my early Blu Ray player 3 years ago. I used to joke that I needed to turn it on and insert a disc then go make popcorn and drinks if I wanted the movie to be ready when I was. haha.

 

[Xiroteus]

I just made the switch before the quality is there and can live with the lower quality during these transition years.

I think this applies to a lot more people then though are extremely picky (I used to be) if something is cheap (netflix) and or easy it can really be good enough, some people just want to see whatever it is, even if it is not the most amazing 1080P ever.

 

[samcraig]

Gotcha.

Perhaps ignorant of me - but I've never actually owned a conventional blu-ray player (in the sense of a dedicated device). I bought the PS3 (not for gaming) for the sole use of blu-ray playback. I've never felt like it was a long boot up time. And I apologize for the "nutty" comment. Perhaps not you - but we seem to have more and more people who need everything right "now" and ANY delay makes them crazy.

So, the more you define your position, the more I probably agree with you. I certainly asknowledge the superiority of Blu Ray in video and audio and the fact that it will continue to be superior for some time. It is, as you say, the "best experience" in home theater. Before I dumped my DVDs and Blu Rays 3 years ago, I enjoyed them in my home theater with 7.1 custom in-wall speakers, high-end components, and Pioneer Kuro plasma. It was incredible. Personally, I have made the conscious decision to live with a lower quality experience in exchange for convenience. That's not everyone's decision. I just found that, when I'm hanging out, surfing available content, it's easier to press "play" for streaming content than to get up, find the disc, boot it up, and watch.

As for OS support for Blu Ray and all optical interfaces, I agree - put it in there. Everyone should have those capabilities if they want to use them.

You say you look forward to replacing physical media when there's a viable alternative, no disagreement there. I just made the switch before the quality is there and can live with the lower quality during these transition years. I understand if you don't want to do that.

Finally, regarding the "minute or two between putting a disk in and watching a movie", perhaps technology has inproved since I used my early Blu Ray player 3 years ago. I used to joke that I needed to turn it on and insert a disc then go make popcorn and drinks if I wanted the movie to be ready when I was. haha.

 

[7709876]

The epic sci-fi thriller PROMETHEUS is also available today on DIGITAL HD™ for less than $15, arriving three weeks before Blu-ray,

"BOOM!"

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...entury-Fox Advances-Entertainment-Digital-HD™

In lower quality and without any extras.

Er, boom.

 

[rennerdb52]

Migrate Blu-Ray to SDXC format

I think that I want high quality video, whether its Blu Ray, 4K format or high quality H.264/H.265. Let's hope that content distributers recognize that there still is a need and there are alternative. SDXC has the capacity (up to the terabyte range) for 4K, but the manufacturers have to step-up to that format. Hits smaller, can still perform what blu ray disks do. Its less expensive and is supported in the iMac now.

 

[7709876]

Rubbish, eh? LOL. You should do a little research before spewing complete nonsense.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the anti-circumvention provisions of the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)? The MPAA doesn't need a EULA, they have laws on their side.

You may "happily" copy the content from your Blu Rays to your computer, you just won't be doing it legally. Circumventing the copy protection (which is required to COPY the content) is illegal. So, yes, you are a criminal if you do that. You do NOT own the movie, and you CANNOT do what you please with it. The law is very clear on these issues, and the MPAA is well protected. You purchased the right to view a COPY of the content, under very strict guidelines.

You have no more rights with a movie on a disc than with a movie purchased digitally. The only difference is that you can carry out your illegal activites more easily with a disc than with a downloaded file (assuming you purchased the file through a legal channel).

I don't support the draconian laws in these cases. They are ridiculous. But you should be aware of them and not claim that physical media is superior to digitally streamed/downloaded data based upon a faulty understanding of your "rights" to the content.

Er, seeing as the poster your are replying to is based in the UK why is any of that relevant?

If you had looked at his post and cast your eyes to the left you would have seen this and avoided embarrassing yourself.

You might want to actually have the correct legal information to hand before ranting. Just as a heads up, US laws don't have any legal standing OUTSIDE the US. (Despite the attitudes of the MPAA and many American companies)

 

[Gizmotoy]

Some of the comments in this thread are disappointing.

Blu Rays are not particularly expensive, and most of my purchases have been priced lower than the "HD" version on iTunes, though I do wait for sales. I also see the benefits of streaming, which are huge. In fact, the first thing I do when I buy a Blu Ray is rip it into an image and place it on a central server my media PCs can access. I'd be extremely happy if Apple offered actual Blu Ray quality media via the store for purchase and download (though perhaps not streaming, obviously, although Vudu actually does a pretty fantastic job) so I wouldn't have to do that.

So I get it, I do. The problem is that not supporting Blu Ray puts OS X at a disadvantage in media. It doesn't support the HD audio formats on Blu Rays, so it's not as simple as just buying an external drive. It simply won't work, despite the fact that the hardware itself supports it. The Mac Mini would be a fantastic HTCP, but this drawback really limits its usefulness to myself and others. I understand this may be a niche use, but it's still disappointing. I'd be using a handful of them rather than getting ready to sell the one I have.

If Apple doesn't want to include Blu Ray support in the OS or even in their machines, fine, but they should at least make it possible for 3rd parties to create a fully-functional alternative. Since HD audio requires kernel support, no one but Apple can make it work.

 

[litedesign]

Since when did Apple pay attention to what their customers ARE and AREN'T asking for?

 

[AppleWarMachine]

Mac users no longer requesting blu-ray drives....because they know that they will Never get them...hello...iTunes

 

[robanga]

Some of the comments in this thread are disappointing.

So I get it, I do. The problem is that not supporting Blu Ray puts OS X at a disadvantage in media. It doesn't support the HD audio formats on Blu Rays, so it's not as simple as just buying an external drive. It simply won't work, despite the fact that the hardware itself supports it. The Mac Mini would be a fantastic HTCP, but this drawback really limits its usefulness to myself and others. I understand this may be a niche use, but it's still disappointing. I'd be using a handful of them rather than getting ready to sell the one I have.

Thanks for the education on that. I was not aware. So what audio are you left with when using a third party drive on OS X? Do you end up with standard 2:1, 5:1 etc?

 

[h0mi]

Aren't the superdrives a very popular accessory sold by apple?

 

[scoobydoo99]

Er, seeing as the poster your are replying to is based in the UK why is any of that relevant?

If you had looked at his post and cast your eyes to the left you would have seen this and avoided embarrassing yourself.

You might want to actually have the correct legal information to hand before ranting. Just as a heads up, US laws don't have any legal standing OUTSIDE the US. (Despite the attitudes of the MPAA and many American companies)

I am fully aware of the poster's location. Do you not understand that the reach of US corporations is international? They would not be satisfied with laws that only apply in the US. They work with international organizations and governments to implement their control globally. In the European Union, the "Copyright Directive" is the applicable law, and it implements the WIPO copyright treaty. In reality, the Copyright Directive is MORE restrictive than the US's DMCA. Please read up on it and educate yourself before suggesting that I have "correct legal information" to hand out. I don't take it upon myself to tutor the world's inhabitants on the laws of their countries.

His original comment stated that MY post regarding legality of copying movies was "rubbish", so he was wrong in either venue - US or EU.

Thanks, but I'm not embarrassed at all. How 'bout you?

 

[Gizmotoy]

Thanks for the education on that. I was not aware. So what audio are you left with when using a third party drive on OS X? Do you end up with standard 2:1, 5:1 etc?

The maximum supported audio straight from a Blu Ray disc is LPCM 7.1, which can actually include unencrypted HD Audio. Unfortunately, it was only used on very early launch Blu Rays and has been completely non-existent for years now, for obvious reasons.

So for now, Macs are limited to DD 5.1 (AC3, same format as DVDs), or DTS Core 5.1 (Same format as DVDs, but better bitrate/quality). 7.1 audio, and any of the HD formats (DTS:HD Master Audio and TrueHD) in 7.1 or 5.1, from Blu Ray sources are not available on Macs when running OS X.

If you run Windows or Linux natively, 7.1 and 5.1 HD Audio is possible using the drivers provided by the graphics card vendor (NOT Apple's drivers).

The fact that Linux, which usually lags behind in the driver and copy protection front, supports this stuff tells you all you need to know about Apple's thoughts on the matter.

 

[adamtore]

At least he could be honest and say "We want our customers to buy movies from itunes". No need for silly games.

 

[roadbloc]

Rubbish, eh? LOL. You should do a little research before spewing complete nonsense.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the anti-circumvention provisions of the U.S.

That is as far as I got. US ≠ The World. Not that it matters, on physical media you can get away with doing as you like without anyone taking the film away from you if you break the petty EULA rules.