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Being greedy is what any publicly owned company has to be. If Apple leadership wasn't making greedy decisions the shareholders would kick them out.
Apple's insane profit margins are this way for that very reason. Apple is in the business of making money for their shareholders. Nothing else matters.


Yes, true. But focusing on shareholder value first and only after that thinking about product decisions is the wrong way.

Products based on shareholder value principles are inferior products.
Superior products lead to superior shareholder value in the long term.
Just focus on great products and shareholder value will follow.


This is something still not taught at business school (and I do have a Master in Business Administration and a M.Sc. in Finance).
 
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I just wish their "superior products" started producing "superior hardware." They could very well just end a lot of these arguments and spend the extra capital they already have on putting current graphics cards, minimum 16GB RAM, and larger SSDs into their desktop and laptop machines. Yes, it would cost more, but isn't the consumer experience most important? They did something similar with the Mac OS operating system. I was literally stunned when they finally decided to just make it a free upgrade. I'm sure that cost them some money as well, but they did it, and in return they're able to get people to upgrade quickly without a long transition between OS versions. It also helps for proliferation of the OS and adoption and switching rates in general.

Upgrading and staying current on graphics cards, SSDs, and base RAM levels would cause a greater amount of Windows and other users to consider switching to the platform. In the end, they'll sell more machines and iPhones to make up for the cost of upgrading the internals and keeping the price consistent. I love the care they take on the shell of the computer, but I just wish they paid the same amount of attention to the internals. And for crying out loud...please allow us to upgrade the SSDs and RAM in at least Macbook Pros again. Glueing parts together must stop. Again, that lengthens the life of a machine, but it helps sell more computers, because it's going to attract consumers to buy more.

As for the iPhone, even a 32GB would be a lot more worth the price. Justifying a 16GB for that price is ridiculous right now.
 
Yes, true. But focusing on shareholder value first and only after that thinking about product decisions is the wrong way.

Products based on shareholder value principles are inferior products.
Superior products lead to superior shareholder value in the long term.
Just focus on great products and shareholder value will follow.


This is something still not taught at business school (and I do have a Master in Business Administration and a M.Sc. in Finance).

Absolutely correct. This day and age of immediate, fast profits and shareholder knob sucking will eventually catch up to everyone involved. At some point all of the buyers of the products will be unemployed due to companies seeking out more slave labor and the products will get crappier and crappier too. Terrific. :(
 
Why 16GB, simple, Greed! Well that's what business do as we all know. But if Apple wants to keep customers happy, which businesses should want to do, they need to bump the minimum to 32GB. If you have 1000 pictures and 20 videos on your phone your going to eat up a lot of that 16GB, not to mention the OS taking up 1/3 of that, so really you only have about 10 GB of useable storage when you open the box. Then download a couple big apps/games that are 500-1000 MB and your out of space. The cloud ain't gonna help you there buddy. Time to step up, its 2015 already, add another 16GB of ram, whats it cost you 5 bucks! So make the low end model $5 dollars more and you will make everyone happy.
 
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No, he's saying people don't have to justify it. The fact that it sells justifies it.
I was agreeing with him, dude. He was saying they don't produce millions and millions of 16 GB models to pawn people off trying to get them to upgrade to other models. The forced upgrade comments are nonsense.
 
I have to say that some of the things he says are just matter of opinion, and I can agree with. Like the decision to only include one port on the new Macbook.
On the other hand his arguments for the 16GB iPhone are pretty weak, fact is it would only cost them a few extra dollars per device if even, but since they sell millions of devices a few dollars actually adds up real fast. They should just own up to this fact (they won't, I know), like people have mentioned using the cloud isn't always convenient and actually quite expensive when you don't have WiFi (in Canada and the States at least, I have heard parts Europe have affordable unlimited data plans).
What got me most was his idea of "making the right tradeoffs", yes they are indeed tradeoffs but this is no longer a matter of opinion as much anymore. He says that larger phones with larger batteries take longer to charge simply because they are bigger, which is ridiculous because the iPhone is one of the slowest charging high end phones on the market, it also has one of the smallest batteries. They obviously have a fetish for thinness. Not to mention many phones with screen sizes larger or equal to the 6+ weigh less. This is fact and they are stretching the truth, at the end of the day I don't expect a perfect device, just the best one.
 
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FWIW I have always bought 16gb iPhones, and between the 5g in iCloud and iTunes Match for music, I have never needed for space. I run Garageband, iMovie, Pages, several other larger than average apps, and I have about 2.5gb free space right now. I mean, 32 would be nice, but I've never once needed more space.
 
For all the people complaining in this thread if you want Apple to get the message stop buying their products. It's not like someone is putting a gun to your head forcing you to buy anything Apple sells. Fewer sales will get Apple's attention more than anything else.

I agree. Which is why I'll no longer fall into the trap of upgrading just to get back what I should already have in my existing phone, ie half-way decent battery life. At least a full 8-10 hours instead of 5. The phone needs 12-15 hours to be called an all day phone.

If it means I have to perma-carry an external battery pack and keep it charging I will. Apple's hypocrisy is that they boast about the iPad's "legendary" all day battery life but for some reason have decided that a phone that you're much more likely to carry around for longer periods of time away from charging outlets is less deserving so they decide to keep shrinking the device. Their "logic" is completely backwards and completely flawed.

Unless things change I can see this being my last iPhone. Still love my rMBP though.
 
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Almost everyone I know with 16GB besides a couple of older people are constantly having to delete things to free up space, and can't even OTA update their phones because they don't have the room.

The difference is 8GB and 16GB used to be fine for most people. Now apps are larger, people have more music, people take more pictures, and 16GB is no longer enough for most people to use and not worry about space. They need to up the minimum storage to keep up. The higher capacity phones should be for people with an unusual amount of content like movies, music, videos, ect. They should not be needed for the average person to use the phone normally while constantly having to manage storage space.

The last few years Apple has stagnated in updating their devices to match the increased need for things like RAM and storage. Even regressed in some cases such as the 13" rMBP going from 8GB to 4GB back up to 8GB for the base model. The 15" rMBP base model losing the discreet graphics card. Seems like they are really fighting having to bump up the base specs to keep up with technology and users.
 
They manufacture millions and millions of iPhones and make billions in profit from them. Why would they manufacture millions of them to not sell them?

Yes, the 16 gig models are profitable and sell by the boat load (well, airplane load). I've been buying them since the very first Edge iPhone (although I think that one is 8 gigs, I could get it out of the draw and check). Apple, like every other company, wants to up sell as many customers as possible to the higher priced and more profitable models. There is nothing wrong with this, it's basic marketing. If 16 gigs isn't enough for a person shell out the $100 and get the 64 gig phone, or buy another brand.
 
If Apple releases a 16GB iPhone next September, it will be based only on revenue decision, not in the best product they can ship. So, it will be bad for Apple and for us all.
 
So people who already can't afford to pay $100 extra for more storage have to instead pay monthly? That's bull****. Apple doesn't think this whole storage thing through...
 
So people who already can't afford to pay $100 extra for more storage have to instead pay monthly? That's bull****. Apple doesn't think this whole storage thing through...

Yes, they pay a whole .99 a month for 20 gigs if 5 isn't enough for them. If a person can't or won't spend the $100 for the 64 gig phone they, may, have to make adjustments in how they use their phone. I've never had a problem with a 16 gig phone, but I don't play games on my iPhone and store my music and photos 'in the cloud' (and on my iMac as a backup). If a person doesn't want to make these decisions they can spend the $100 for the 64 gig iPhone, or move to another brand.

I don't get angry with the auto manufacturers because my $20k car doesn't have all the nice things they put in the $70k car.
 
16GB is a nightmare. Really struggling with it. hardly any apps installed but take plenty of photos. Have all the cloud services activated.Completely my own fault.
 
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I don't get angry with the auto manufacturers because my $20k car doesn't have all the nice things they put in the $70k car.

You need to work on your logic and learn to make accurate comparisons.

A lot of the repeated remarks you make sound like an Apple employee at the Genius bar.

Let's say 5 years ago, you had to pay extra to get HD radio or Satellite Radio in your car.
Today, it's almost standard in all cars.
Soon, in car WiFi will be standard unless you own an Apple car.
 
Yes, they pay a whole .99 a month for 20 gigs if 5 isn't enough for them. If a person can't or won't spend the $100 for the 64 gig phone they, may, have to make adjustments in how they use their phone. I've never had a problem with a 16 gig phone, but I don't play games on my iPhone and store my music and photos 'in the cloud' (and on my iMac as a backup). If a person doesn't want to make these decisions they can spend the $100 for the 64 gig iPhone, or move to another brand.

I don't get angry with the auto manufacturers because my $20k car doesn't have all the nice things they put in the $70k car.

Can you at least agree the reasons to make it thin are down right wrong? Well the ones he mentions at least. The iPhone isn't even close to the fastest charging phone or longest lasting and the battery is small compared to other flagships. I personally don't mind the trade-offs, and yes I am okay with them selling a 16gb phone but to say that it's for the customer and not them is just plain not true.
 
What's with all this "thinness" nonsense? The word you mean is "thickness", as the term "thinness" is not even recognised as a word in the Oxford dictionary... you know, the REAL dictionary, the one that matters. I'm English, from the country England, who invented the language... we ought to know.

It's "thickness", nothing else.
 
I'm trying to figure out who the people are complaining about this... The only thing I can figure is that it's kids upset because they have to take the device their parents are buying for them.

The argument "there shouldn't be a 16GB iPhone" is a strange one. I understand the "there should be a 256GB iPhone" argument: the desire for something that doesn't exist. Saying that something shouldn't be an option seems like a strange thing to spend so much vitriol on.

There are higher capacity devices available, so if 16GB is simply not usable for someone you'd think they'd buy a device that was unless they aren't the one making the decision. So the reason the problem is being phrased as "16GB isn't enough at the bottom end" rather than "the 64GB is too expensive" is because they know their parents will always buy the bottom end-- so making everything cheaper doesn't help them.

No, they made the base model 16 gigs so they can up sell people to more profitable phones. Basic marketing;
There is definitely some truth to the fact that it helps to have a range of products. Very few people do careful analysis of cost/value when making a purchase decision. If you give people three choices, most people pick the one in the middle because most people consider themselves "typical". You can then charge higher margins for the top end one (think Apple Watch Edition) because there are a few people with lots of money who think their needs exceed those of everyone else in every way, and offer a bottom end device at lower margins to capture customers you wouldn't be able to address at your average profit margin.

Up selling works when the incremental cost among tiers is small, so people are easily persuaded to buy more than they need. The up-sell argument is an odd one though in this context. People are saying that 16GB isn't usable, and that they need more storage-- so they are buying what they need, not more than they need.

And how does the 8GB 5C fit into this argument? Is it there just to upsell people to a 16GB? If that were true, then people would have to admit that 16GB was usable. Maybe it's an even more elaborate plot to double-upsell people to the 64GB? Cunning, that.

Or maybe it's just a way to address the most cost sensitive parts of the market-- people who want an iPhone, but for whom cost is more critical than having all three versions of Infinity Blade installed.
Why 16GB, simple, Greed! Well that's what business do as we all know. But if Apple wants to keep customers happy, which businesses should want to do, they need to bump the minimum to 32GB. If you have 1000 pictures and 20 videos on your phone your going to eat up a lot of that 16GB, not to mention the OS taking up 1/3 of that, so really you only have about 10 GB of useable storage when you open the box. Then download a couple big apps/games that are 500-1000 MB and your out of space. The cloud ain't gonna help you there buddy. Time to step up, its 2015 already, add another 16GB of ram, whats it cost you 5 bucks! So make the low end model $5 dollars more and you will make everyone happy.

You do realize that you are making the argument that the 16GB version is tremendous deal, right? The only difference between the different tiers of iPhone is the storage so if another 16GB of Flash is $5, then the 16GB device costs apple $15 less to make than the 64GB, but they're selling it for $100 less-- you're getting an $85 discount!

Maybe it's a bit less of a discount than that, but Apple set up their pricing so that they hit a target profit margin across the product mix-- so if this really is all ruse to get people to buy the 64GB, then that device is probably closest to their target margin and the 16 is a steal.
 
You aren't saying that you want the top end to have higher capacity, you're complaining that Apple shouldn't sell a low end device. I understand complaining that they don't make something that you want, but complaining that they do make something that you don't want is, well, odd.

I don't think it is that. Many people in this thread are basically saying that they want to have a 32gb device but are only prepared to pay the price of the 16gb version. They probably wouldn't care if the 16gb would still be sold but at $100 less, although I guess most would start the discussion from that point anew most likely.

I would also like to have a 32gb at the price of a 16gb but it is not the case. I also would like a cheaper nav in my BMW but that also doesn't work, and God knows the markup on those things. And I would like a wife with thin ankles, but here I am...

Apple is not obligated to do anything. Vote with your wallet and buy a cheaper Samsung if that fits your spending patterns better.
 
I'm trying to figure out who the people are complaining about this... The only thing I can figure is that it's kids upset because they have to take the device their parents are buying for them.

The argument "there shouldn't be a 16GB iPhone" is a strange one. I understand the "there should be a 256GB iPhone" argument: the desire for something that doesn't exist. Saying that something shouldn't be an option seems like a strange thing to spend so much vitriol on.

There are higher capacity devices available, so if 16GB is simply not usable for someone you'd think they'd buy a device that was unless they aren't the one making the decision. So the reason the problem is being phrased as "16GB isn't enough at the bottom end" rather than "the 64GB is too expensive" is because they know their parents will always buy the bottom end-- so making everything cheaper doesn't help them.


There is definitely some truth to the fact that it helps to have a range of products. Very few people do careful analysis of cost/value when making a purchase decision. If you give people three choices, most people pick the one in the middle because most people consider themselves "typical". You can then charge higher margins for the top end one (think Apple Watch Edition) because there are a few people with lots of money who think their needs exceed those of everyone else in every way, and offer a bottom end device at lower margins to capture customers you wouldn't be able to address at your average profit margin.

Up selling works when the incremental cost among tiers is small, so people are easily persuaded to buy more than they need. The up-sell argument is an odd one though in this context. People are saying that 16GB isn't usable, and that they need more storage-- so they are buying what they need, not more than they need.

And how does the 8GB 5C fit into this argument? Is it there just to upsell people to a 16GB? If that were true, then people would have to admit that 16GB was usable. Maybe it's an even more elaborate plot to double-upsell people to the 64GB? Cunning, that.

Or maybe it's just a way to address the most cost sensitive parts of the market-- people who want an iPhone, but for whom cost is more critical than having all three versions of Infinity Blade installed.


You do realize that you are making the argument that the 16GB version is tremendous deal, right? The only difference between the different tiers of iPhone is the storage so if another 16GB of Flash is $5, then the 16GB device costs apple $15 less to make than the 64GB, but they're selling it for $100 less-- you're getting an $85 discount!

Maybe it's a bit less of a discount than that, but Apple set up their pricing so that they hit a target profit margin across the product mix-- so if this really is all ruse to get people to buy the 64GB, then that device is probably closest to their target margin and the 16 is a steal.

You spent time typing all that? Wow... you have a front door don't you? There's a world outside it.
 
You need to work on your logic and learn to make accurate comparisons.
[...]
Let's say 5 years ago, you had to pay extra to get HD radio or Satellite Radio in your car.
Today, it's almost standard in all cars.
So 5 years ago most people kept their music stored locally on CDs and MP3 devices, and now car makers are moving to over-the-air subscription services via satellite. Is this an argument in favor of replacing flash storage with iCloud streaming, or against?
 
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