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1. Anyone have any experience with the WD RE4 (non GP) 2TB drives? How about running off an Areca controller? Any issues or advice?

2. Any issues regarding the plan to access the RAID-5 array from both OS X and Win 7 via MacDrive?

3. Should the Areca controller be running in EFI or BIOS mode? Or doesn't it matter since I don't want to boot from it?

4. Regarding the two OS SSDs... one I can hook to the lower optical SATA channel, the other will need to be hooked to the PCIe card that comes with the TransIntl kit. That card claims to be bootable (presumably that means for OS X, but maybe Win 7 too?). Should I hook the OS X drive to the card or the lower optical SATA channel?

5. The converse of 4. Where should the Win 7 drive be connected, and are there any installation caveats to that (as in, drivers needed during installation, etc.)?
1. They'll work, as they were tested out by Areca and placed on the HDD Compatability List (that list is your best friend when buying drives, as it can save endless headaches).

2. Maybe, as MacDrive has created problems for users before. But I can't say directly, as I've never tried to do something like that. I'd go for separate arrays (even if it means data duplication).

3. Go ahead and load EFI (safer).

4. I'd expect the card boots BIOS (none can boot both), so attach the Windows disk to it, and the OS X disk to the connector for the avialable optical bay.

5. See above.

One additional question came up in my mind. Something in me likes the fact that Atto is a US company and would offer easy access to English-speaking tech support. Also it looks like their cards are fanless and they seem to have NVRAM cache backup, which is great. Would the equivalent card to the Areca be the Atto ExpressSAS R608? Any experience with that anyone? Also, how does the user interface rate compared to Areca? Thanks again.
ATTO and Areca both make excellent products (use nearly identical designs, as they base their products off of the same reference designs for the semiconductors used).

This means both know what they're doing in the Support Departments (both speak English BTW, but calling NY if you're in the US is easier).

ATTO's managment = custom interface software
Areca's managment = Access it via a Browser (BTW, use FireFox, as Safari doesn't play well with others).

Both cards use NVRAM solutions, and have features that you won't necessarily find from other manufacturers (i.e. copy of the Partition Tables in the ROM = recovery technique that can allow recovery of an array that would be gone with other cards). It's why they're usually considered the best 2x companies in the business in both performance and reliability (I'd take either company's products over Adaptec, LSI, or AMCC/3Ware).

Areca just came out with their 6.0Gb/s products (Aug. 9, 2010), which is the 1880 series. The difference is, you can actually get hold of an Areca right now (here), as it seems the RAID versions of ATTO's products are still hard to find (non RAID versions, which start with an H, are available).

If you want to gain some idea of what to expect out of it, look here.
 
I might have misunderstood you, but I've got a very similar drive setup than the OP and it works like a charm.

1 x SSD for OS X
2 x 2TB RAID0 (software RAID via OS X)
1 x 500GB for VM shared data
1 x 500GB dedicated for Win7

I never had a problem with that config, even though it changed a lot during the past year. Anyway, I always had a dedicated Windows drive.
After the OS X install (which I did exactly one time the day I got the computer) I created the RAID set and installed Windows using the BC assistant. Since I swapped the first array of two 1 TB Blacks with the 2TB drives, I deleted that array, popped in the new drives and created a new one. Again, no problem with Windows whatsoever.:confused:

Could you go over your method once again please?

New Mac arrives
Install ram and ssd
Remove stock 1tb hdd
Power up, boot to SL disk
Initialize ssd
Delete 1 tb hdd
Install SL

Ok we have SL up and running on ssd

Power down
Install 4x2tb hdd's
Power up, initialize all 4 hdd's
bay 1 initialize, partition 250gb scratch, rest for windows7
bays 2-4 initialize, raid 0

Ok we are up and running with storage

Start bootcamp, tell it to install windows7 to bay 1

That's it to get windows to boot?
And will I need to go out andninstall drivers from all over? Antivirus?
 
Thanks for your comments, nanofrog. The Areca 1222 card is arriving today. The MaxUpgrades SAS cable/drive trays came yesterday and I must say that is a nice product. Very well made.

Returning to how to connect the two boot SSDs. It's now clear that the one that will boot OS X will be connected to optical2. Although, since the Areca card has 4 channels I'm not using, I suppose I could hook the OS X boot SSD to one of those. Obviously a mini SAS to SATA breakout cable would be required. And power... I guess optical2 is easier unless I *really* need that second internal optical drive someday.

Anyway, the Windows SSD. Assuming I have a PCIe card with BIOS that would boot in a "real" PC, does that automatically mean it will boot Windows in a Mac Pro? What if you need to get to the pre-boot BIOS setup screen to do some setup... does that screen even show up on a Mac? It would surely "uglify" the boot process! Or in that case would I maybe need to put the card in a real PC to do that part of the setup?

I found another way to possibly put the Windows SSD in the MP, but I'm not sure it will work. It's the Apricorn PCI Drive Array (http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=59). This is a PCIe card with a Sil3124A and places to screw four 2.5" drives (HDD or SSD) right onto the card. Their tech guy confirmed to me that it has BIOS. At $200 for the bare card it's more expensive than getting a mounting solution for two SSDs in the optical bay and getting a card to run the Windows one, but it's definitely more elegant (no cables at all). It would seem that possibly I could put the Windows SSD on it and then if I wanted some other (data) drives for OS X or Windows, put those in the remaining three spaces. On a whim I ordered the last remaining card Amazon had and will try it out when my MP arrives, supposedly on Monday. The tech guy did say that there seem to be driver problems with 10.6, however (not that that matters for Windows). Should there not be generic Silicon Image drivers that would work and are stable in 10.6? Anyway, I'll report back on the results if anyone is interested. ???

Regarding MacDrive, seems you're right: A quick Google reveals all sorts of dissatisfied users with pretty serious problems (such as data corruption). Anyone have any experience with HFSExplorer (http://hem.bredband.net/catacombae/hfsx.html)? It's free and allows read-only access. So it seems it should not be able to bork the data.

Thanks again...
 
Could you go over your method once again please?

That's it to get windows to boot?
And will I need to go out andninstall drivers from all over? Antivirus?

I already made a post in your other thread, so I simply quote myself. :)

No there is no problem with Windows 7 and RAID.
I've got a very similar disk setup and Win 7 works flawlessly.

Possible, but you can do it quicker.
Since OS X is already pre-installed in the stock 1TB disk, simply finish the installation on this drive.

So in short:

1. Finish installation of OS X on 1TB drive
2. Install CCC on OS X
3. Install RAM, other hard drives and SSD
4. Initialise SSD, set up RAID and clone 1TB drive to SSD
5. Reboot using the SSD as boot (hold alt-key after the startup sound and select the SSD)
6. Erase the 1TB drive
7. Start BootCamp assistant (it leads you through the installation, no point of explaining the process).
 
Returning to how to connect the two boot SSDs. It's now clear that the one that will boot OS X will be connected to optical2. Although, since the Areca card has 4 channels I'm not using, I suppose I could hook the OS X boot SSD to one of those. Obviously a mini SAS to SATA breakout cable would be required. And power... I guess optical2 is easier unless I *really* need that second internal optical drive someday.
The optical bay is the easiest and least expensive location to mount the disk IMO, as it leaves the HDD bays for the card.

Anyway, the Windows SSD. Assuming I have a PCIe card with BIOS that would boot in a "real" PC, does that automatically mean it will boot Windows in a Mac Pro?
Yes. :D

The EFI firmware has a BIOS Emulation component within it, in order to boot BIOS based cards. They just can't boot under OS X (stays EFI entirely), though such products can work under OS X if they have drivers.

What if you need to get to the pre-boot BIOS setup screen to do some setup... does that screen even show up on a Mac? It would surely "uglify" the boot process! Or in that case would I maybe need to put the card in a real PC to do that part of the setup?
You can't access the card's firmware directly in a MP. :( In some cases, a PC is all that can be done to access it, but in the case of the Areca, you don't need to do this, as you can gain access to the card's functions via a Browser (use Firefox, as Safari doesn't play well with this type of access).

The settings that become visible are the same as directly accessing the card's firmware (layout is different - prettier than BIOS, but the settings are there). This includes the log files, which are your best friend if a problem ever occurs (you can also have the logs sent to email accounts, which is really nice, as you take notice faster due to email alerts when new messages come in). The card doesn't flash an error message across the screen if an error occurs (none do). That's why you check the logs...

I found another way to possibly put the Windows SSD in the MP, but I'm not sure it will work. It's the Apricorn PCI Drive Array (http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail.php?type=family&id=59). This is a PCIe card with a Sil3124A and places to screw four 2.5" drives (HDD or SSD) right onto the card. Their tech guy confirmed to me that it has BIOS.
As it has BIOS, it will work. Tad pricey though for what you want it for IMO.

Should there not be generic Silicon Image drivers that would work and are stable in 10.6? Anyway, I'll report back on the results if anyone is interested. ???
I know they write OS X drivers for other parts (SIL3132), so take a look at Silicon Image's support site, and see if any are available.

Regarding MacDrive, seems you're right: A quick Google reveals all sorts of dissatisfied users with pretty serious problems (such as data corruption). Anyone have any experience with HFSExplorer (http://hem.bredband.net/catacombae/hfsx.html)? It's free and allows read-only access. So it seems it should not be able to bork the data.
I'm not aware of that program at all.

You could also consider FAT32 (file size issues?), as both OS's can access that (just keep the "shared" files on the FAT32 location, and everything else on their respective file systems for the OS they're used for). It's possible to use separate disks, or paritition an array if needed.

Just a thought anyway...
 
The Apricorn card is admittedly pricey for the intended use, but I like clean solutions and that's about as clean as it gets. It will also let me add up to three additional HDDs/SSDs in the future with no cabling, controller, or space in the case used. I hope it works for booting Windows, and it sure sounds like it will. So, nanofrog, I guess I should be able to put HFS formatted disks on that card too, even though it is a BIOS based card, yes? I think the BIOS (or lack thereof) only is relevant as far as bootablilty right? Edit: I just found that there is no Silicon Image 3124 64-bit driver, and the new Mac Pros run 64-bit kernel by default. So I guess no HFS disks on that card for now. But I could put additional Windows data disks on it (if I needed that, which I'm not sure I do).

I really don't want to do FAT32. What I'm trying to accomplish is to give Windows access to my main data store of my photos and video clips. Yes, some of the video clips would be too big for FAT32, and also I just really feel better keeping my stuff in native Mac format. So I just want Windows to be able to read it just in case there is a need there.

So the final solution (for the moment) is:
1. OS X boot SSD in optical bay 2 running off mobo SATA.
2. Windows boot SSD mounted on Apricorn PCIe board.
3. Areca 1222 board running four HDDs (RAID5) in the normal HDD bays via the MaxUpgrades kit. Possibly accessed for read-only work from Windows using HFSExplorer. Additional four channels on the Areca board for future use.

Assuming the UPS tracking info was right, I'll get to try it out Monday when the MP shows up. It's still showing in Alaska now. Coming from China. :( I had hoped for "Assembled in USA" like my previous Mac Pros. I had always thought that if you got a customized one it came from USA. Since I customized the CPU (6-core 3.33) and memory, I figured I was all set this time too. Not so much. Well, I'm sure the quality is the same, just a personal thing. Thanks for the input... very helpful.
 
The Apricorn card is admittedly pricey for the intended use, but I like clean solutions and that's about as clean as it gets. It will also let me add up to three additional HDDs/SSDs in the future with no cabling, controller, or space in the case used. I hope it works for booting Windows, and it sure sounds like it will. So, nanofrog, I guess I should be able to put HFS formatted disks on that card too, even though it is a BIOS based card, yes? I think the BIOS (or lack thereof) only is relevant as far as bootablilty right? Edit: I just found that there is no Silicon Image 3124 64-bit driver, and the new Mac Pros run 64-bit kernel by default. So I guess no HFS disks on that card for now. But I could put additional Windows data disks on it (if I needed that, which I'm not sure I do).
The card you're looking at will boot Windows, and Silicon Image's drivers for OS X went dual Kernel support with Snow Leopard (this one is both K32 and K64). Here.

I really don't want to do FAT32. What I'm trying to accomplish is to give Windows access to my main data store of my photos and video clips. Yes, some of the video clips would be too big for FAT32, and also I just really feel better keeping my stuff in native Mac format. So I just want Windows to be able to read it just in case there is a need there.
FAT32 or a software solution is up to you, as there's a likelyhood of limitations/issues with either method. I just hope whatever you decide on works for your intended use.

So the final solution (for the moment) is:
1. OS X boot SSD in optical bay 2 running off mobo SATA.
2. Windows boot SSD mounted on Apricorn PCIe board.
3. Areca 1222 board running four HDDs (RAID5) in the normal HDD bays via the MaxUpgrades kit. Possibly accessed for read-only work from Windows using HFSExplorer. Additional four channels on the Areca board for future use.
Looks good, just make sure you've a proper backup solution in place, even with a RAID 5 on a proper hardware controller.
 
Mac Pro Followup

Hi nanofrog, et. al.,

Well, I got my 6-core Pro Monday and all has gone really well. Here is the summary of my experience:

1. Intel X25-M G2 (160GB) SSD installed in lower optical bay. Boots OS X, and I decided to just go the Bootcamp route and put Windows 7 on it too instead of using a separate disk. That eliminated the "need" of another SSD and the Apricorn PCIe board (or any other disk controller for that matter). More notes on Windows below. Saved money and complexity.

2. Areca 1222 board running four WD RE4 2TB drives in the internal bays using the MaxUpgrades sleds and SAS cable. Cable routing was fairly easy to keep the interior looking nice. I don't find the RE4 drives to be loud at all (I had seen complaints of the similar Black drives being loud). Once I figured out the basics of the web interface, the config of the RAID5 array went easily. Be sure to set over 2TB volume support (64-bit LBA). It's very fast and apart from the annoying beep at startup time, stays out of the way and "just works". I just left the board using BIOS since I'm not booting from it. Also since I didn't understand what to download to put EFI on it. If I had wanted to do that, exactly what file am I looking for? Also, nanofrog, you suggested putting the board on EFI even though I didn't have plans to boot it. Why? What are the advantages to EFI or the pitfalls to BIOS? Finally, now that it's configured and has a running array on it, should I avoid switching it to EFI?

3. Apricorn PCIe board. It's a neat board, that's for sure, even though in the end I returned it. I did experiment a little with it first. Just as a test, I put a 2.5" HDD I had on it and attempted to install Windows 7 to it. Since I planned to use the board to just hold individual drive(s) and not form a RAID, I used the "base" driver during the Windows install. No drives appeared. I soon figured out that the board must come pre-configured to RAID mode. First I tried to press the Ctrl key sequence to enter the card's BIOS setup to change the setting. However I found that the Mac keyboard appeared to be unresponsive at that point in the boot, leaving me no way to get into the setup utility. I suppose I could have temporarily put the board in a "real" Windows computer and changed the setting there, but I was too lazy for that. So I tried a RAID driver instead and then the HDD showed up as a Windows install target. When I tried to install to it however, I got an error 0x80300024, which googling reveals could probably have been fixed by removing all other HDDs/SSDs from the computer before launching the Windows installation. But by that time I was sold on the idea of saving money and returning the SSD that was to be for Windows, and the Apricorn board. So all I can say is that I think it would have worked but can't say for sure.

4. My Windows experience has been really good so far. First, it's quick. The quickest Windows computer I've ever seen. The Windows 7 experience rating is as follows (scores out of a max of 7.9): CPU: 7.8, Memory: 7.8, Graphics: 7.4, Gaming: 7.4, HDD (really SSD): 7.5. Not too shabby. My ATI board is the basic one that comes with the Mac Pros now, not the additional cost option.

Also, I had a really nice surprise. In my previous posts I had said that I would use MacDrive to gain access to the Areca array (formatted HFS) from Windows. nanofrog cautioned that MD is not a great product. I found a freeware utility to allow read-only access, which is all I need really. But to my surprise and delight, I don't need anything at all. Windows already sees both my boot Mac SSD and the Areca array! This must be some goodness provided by Bootcamp. I wonder how long this has been around and I just didn't know it? Anyway, it works great for read-only access to HFS volumes from Windows.

Thanks again to all, especially nanofrog. I feel like I have a disk system commensurate to a fast computer like the Mac Pro.
 
2. Areca 1222 board running four WD RE4 2TB drives in the internal bays using the MaxUpgrades sleds and SAS cable. Cable routing was fairly easy to keep the interior looking nice. I don't find the RE4 drives to be loud at all (I had seen complaints of the similar Black drives being loud). Once I figured out the basics of the web interface, the config of the RAID5 array went easily. Be sure to set over 2TB volume support (64-bit LBA). It's very fast and apart from the annoying beep at startup time, stays out of the way and "just works". I just left the board using BIOS since I'm not booting from it. Also since I didn't understand what to download to put EFI on it. If I had wanted to do that, exactly what file am I looking for? Also, nanofrog, you suggested putting the board on EFI even though I didn't have plans to boot it. Why? What are the advantages to EFI or the pitfalls to BIOS? Finally, now that it's configured and has a running array on it, should I avoid switching it to EFI?
Glad you got it up and running. :D

As per the beep at startup, you can't disable it. But you can put a piece of tape over the hole, which will make it far less annoying (nice and easy). ;)

BIOS v. EFI:
It's just that you cannot access a card's firmware within a MP (no matter the card, which is why you have to gain access to the settings via ARCHTTP and a browser window), so this holds true for both EFI and BIOS flashed cards.

You don't have to install EFI if your not booting OS X from the card. But the advantages are:
  • Makes it easier to shift to a bootable array down the road.
  • Screen looks cleaner during boot (last I ran it; gone back to PC myself, as the MP system I was trying to use was getting too expensive, and my work is done under Windows anyway).
Neither may matter to you, and it's nothing to sweat anyway in your current configuration. :) If you do choose to do it however, you can find the file in the disk that came with the card (it's also been on their support site, but it's always been hard to find; you have to get into the directory tree, and hunt it down).

Now I'd recommend trying to test out failures (i.e. pull the power <presume you've a UPS, and possibly a battery on the card>, pull a drive,...) before you put critical data on it, in order to see how it behaves and you'll know what to expect if an actual failure occurs. ;)
 
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