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Photoshop could be reborn in a much better form and I think it'd get the like of the public back. Photoshop is a highly torrented piece of software for a reason.

Yeah, because people love it, but don't want to pay the price. They don't need to get the public back, because the publics already there. People are either paying for it or pirating it.

I would say they need to offer a less expensive version for hobbyists, but...eh. They've already done that. PS CS6 retails for around $500. Getting it through the Photography Pack costs $120 a year alongside Lightroom. It'd take renting it for 4 1/2 years to match the retail price of Photoshop alone, and you get a constant stream of upgrades the entire while.

It's for this reason that the Creative Suite, specifically the Photo Pack, has been successful. The thought of subscribing to software is a little weird, but the price isn't all that bad.
 
Yeah, because people love it, but don't want to pay the price. They don't need to get the public back, because the publics already there. People are either paying for it or pirating it.

I would say they need to offer a less expensive version for hobbyists, but...eh. They've already done that. PS CS6 retails for around $500. Getting it through the Photography Pack costs $120 a year alongside Lightroom. It'd take renting it for 4 1/2 years to match the retail price of Photoshop alone, and you get a constant stream of upgrades the entire while.

It's for this reason that the Creative Suite, specifically the Photo Pack, has been successful. The thought of subscribing to software is a little weird, but the price isn't all that bad.

Yep... Photoshop Elements is available for much cheaper than full-on Photoshop. Or any of the other programs (Pixelmator, Acorn, etc)

Photoshop is a professional tool... and always has been a professional tool. There is SO much stuff in Photoshop that professionals need but are unused by the average consumer.

The people who pirate Photoshop are doing it because they can... not because they need all those advanced features.

I make money using Adobe software... so I have no problem paying $50 a month for the entire suite.

For the hobbyist though... I can understand the trepidation of a subscription.

But alternatives exist for that reason.
 
Photoshop one day will go the same route as flash. Both very bloated. And I do hope pixelmator and others really become good enough to be accepted by the industry for light tasks and maybe one day even heavy tasks too. Then PS can finally start to die like flash is slowly dying now.

What ARE you talking about?

You are confusing bloat with functionality.


You continue using is and be happy, the rest of us will stick with the best tool.
 
I make money using Adobe software... so I have no problem paying $50 a month for the entire suite.

For the hobbyist though... I can understand the trepidation of a subscription.

But alternatives exist for that reason.

There are several problems with Adobe's subscription model.
The first and biggest one is that in order to just open your files you need to keep paying them forever! That is just plain wrong. Before if a version didn't suit your needs you could just skip it and stay with the version you had at that moment. You cannot do this anymore. In that way they're forcing you to give them your money wether you want to or not. I'm amazed by the fact that this is even legal.
The other problem to this model is that creative cloud is expensive in basically all other countries other than the States. in some cases it's closer to 80$ And in other areas 90$. It is still affordable but you easily see Adobe's greed through and through. Before when they had the physical product they could give a half valid reason that the differences in prices between countries was due to shipping costs. What is the reason now? Their thinking behind this tactic is that these countries were used to paying x2-x3 more money before so now that they will have to pay less, they will do it without a second thought. Even though the product should cost exactly the same (not including taxes).

It still is uncomfortable to watch Adobe's CEO answer about the difference in pricing in Australia
http://youtu.be/78yigV0GYGQ

These are tactics that showcase an arrogant company that knows it has a strong foothold on the professional market. So whatever they do people will comply. This is the kind of attitude Quark had and right now they are in no way a competition to in design.

On the other hand Adobe is also smart. And even though the tactics are questionable they also deliver really good products that only got better through cc. So even though I still use their products and will probably do so until I retire
I still feel uneasy with their bullying tactics towards their users.

Even though you didn't discuss bloatware I would like to also address this here.
Adobe was and still is (to a lesser degree) at fault here. Especially before cc when they were making their money through updates so they were forced to have something new every 6 or so months.
Prime examples. The red eye reduction tool. Something that no one needed and people could do it before with several different ways.
The same goes for their 3d importing tools in photoshop and the 3d printing through photoshop. I work with 3d every day and never in my life I have seen a more useless tool than the 3d tools in photoshop. You cannot do anything useful and it's just plain slow. This is the definition of bloatware. Like the red eye reduction tool this is something to target the non professional market with tools that are easy to use. Even though their pricing is targeting the pro market. A lot of missteps in that regard.
I could go on and on with bloatware features in photoshop and their rest of their apps but there's no reason to. You get the point. Thankfully though the bloatware tools after cc are slowly getting less and less. And this is one of the positives of cc. Adobe doesn't have to worry about cash flow any more, so they can concentrate delivering features when they're ready.

As much as I'm dependent on and love illustrator and Photoshop I can also see how scary some of the company's tactics are. Just a suggestion. Let's not be blind to some glaring problems just because we earn our living from this company.
 
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...Before if a version didn't suit your needs you could just skip it and stay with the version you had at that moment. You cannot do this anymore.

You're not forced onto the perpetual upgrade cycle if you don't want to be there. Adobe up their software versions yearly now, and they have it set up so you can download the previous three versions if you don't want to be on the latest and greatest.
 
25 years and still bloatware. Sure it's very good at it's job but now it's just bloated and you can't even pay for it once and own it. For all but the heaviest image editing work, Pixelmator is looking like a great alternative.

Don't know about CC because I haven't used it just yet, but CS6 seems OK. Of course, CS3 was a lot leaner. I'm not a pro, but I've used Photoshop on and off and really like it. It's extremely powerful. What's wrong with it? You also said it'll end up like Flash, but Flash relies on the Flash Player standard, and Photoshop is just an image editor, so they're very different things that would live or die for different reasons.

Creative Cloud really pisses me off in other ways, though. I hate having to deal with the stupid Adobe account. Our university provides free Design Premium to students, and I made the mistake of not grabbing it before they switched from CS6 to CC. You know it's a bad sign when you have to download an Adobe download manager to download Illustrator. Ugh, just let me download Illustrator.app and be done with it!
 
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You're not forced onto the perpetual upgrade cycle if you don't want to be there. Adobe up their software versions yearly now, and they have it set up so you can download the previous three versions if you don't want to be on the latest and greatest.

As far as I know if you cancel your subscription you only have one option.
CS6. so if you jumped from cs3-5 to cc you're screwed. You need to spend a lot of money for an old piece of software. One that cannot even open your newer files. If you want to open your new files with cs6 you need to convert each and every one to the old cs6 format.... And as you can imagine that is not possible if you're a professional designer. We're talking about thousands of files! So at the end of the day if you don't want to buy cs6 you not only have spent thousands of dollars for a program (cc) that does nothing anymore, but you also have no access to your work.
so yes you're forced to a perpetual upgrade cycle.
 
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I generally use Manga Studio as well, I tend to prefer the brush system in it more.

It's really neat seeing how coloring in comics has changed and evolved over the last couple decades. It's really helped open up the industry to more unique and varied styles (One of my current favorites is Stjepan Sejic [Witchblade, Rat Queens, Sunstone] who's work is 100% digitally painted).

Photoshop updated the brush system with either CS5 or CS6. I don't recall which one. Manga Studio's is still arguably better, but the older brush engine was terrible when it came to things like pressure based brush size. That was practically unusable in PS prior to the change. I think you would get even better results if they moved away from such a sharply gamma distributed space for brush calculations. It makes some of the blending much more tedious when you aren't dealing with flat/cell shaded stuff. Anyway that was a bit of a tangent, but your comment made me think of it.

Yeah, because people love it, but don't want to pay the price. They don't need to get the public back, because the publics already there. People are either paying for it or pirating it.

I would say they need to offer a less expensive version for hobbyists, but...eh. They've already done that. PS CS6 retails for around $500. Getting it through the Photography Pack costs $120 a year alongside Lightroom. It'd take renting it for 4 1/2 years to match the retail price of Photoshop alone, and you get a constant stream of upgrades the entire while.

It's for this reason that the Creative Suite, specifically the Photo Pack, has been successful. The thought of subscribing to software is a little weird, but the price isn't all that bad.

There are alternatives. I've been waiting for a stable OSX version of Krita. Some of the open source raw processors are also quite nice.
 
Photoshop updated the brush system with either CS5 or CS6. I don't recall which one. Manga Studio's is still arguably better, but the older brush engine was terrible when it came to things like pressure based brush size. That was practically unusable in PS prior to the change. I think you would get even better results if they moved away from such a sharply gamma distributed space for brush calculations. It makes some of the blending much more tedious when you aren't dealing with flat/cell shaded stuff. Anyway that was a bit of a tangent, but your comment made me think of it.







There are alternatives. I've been waiting for a stable OSX version of Krita. Some of the open source raw processors are also quite nice.


I tried out Krita and its a bit weird. Although I can see what they're trying to do with it as an illustration program. The UI needs more work even though it's in Beta for OSX. I think Affinity Photo/Designer or Mischief is a good alternative until Krita is cleaned up.
 
I tried out Krita and its a bit weird. Although I can see what they're trying to do with it as an illustration program. The UI needs more work even though it's in Beta for OSX. I think Affinity Photo/Designer or Mischief is a good alternative until Krita is cleaned up.

I was unaware of those. Gimp is typically the alternative that most people turn to, but as I mentioned, I've had trouble using it with really large files. I also dislike some of their approaches to color management. UIs aren't quite as much of a problem for me, because I use a large tablet for any painting with everything else hotkeyed. I barely click on anything on screen in photoshop or Krita.
 
What ARE you talking about?

You are confusing bloat with functionality.


You continue using is and be happy, the rest of us will stick with the best tool.

And the best tool one day will not be Photoshop. Even now for light tasks Photoshop is not the best tool. Pixelmator is. For heavy tasks I still use photoshop. For light tasks both work just as well functionally but Pixelmator is the smaller app, uses less memory etc etc.

You did totally misunderstand what I was saying. Flash is a bloated memory and cpu hog. Flash elements on web pages are some of the highest memory usage of everything from safari. That's a major issue. it's not only about functionality as I clearly explained above.

But I explained it again just for you so you can understand it.
 
Paint.net and Gimp work just as well for my needs. :)

Open source for the win!

I, too, think Paint.net and Gimp are fine for the average consumer's needs.

Those people wouldn't have spent $700 for Photoshop anyway.

Just curious... were you formally a Photoshop customer?
 
I, too, think Paint.net and Gimp are fine for the average consumer's needs.



Those people wouldn't have spent $700 for Photoshop anyway.



Just curious... were you formally a Photoshop customer?


Nope, although I use it at school. Never bought it. Just too expensive for what it is and what I would use it for.
 
I use all three Ps, GIMP, and Pixelmator depending on the job and the box. If I don't need to share I prefer GIMP if I do then is Ps. They're all good and I'm glad I have all three.
 
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