Please help me justify $800 difference between MBP and XPS M1530

[add2mac]

I have read previous post on XPS versus and MBP but found it unsatifactory as the forum seemed to go typical Mac vs PC in some way(like Boeing vs Airbus thread in aviation sites)

I was going to buy MBP tomorrow whether or not the new one is released tomorrow. Then my dad comes in with this special deal on Apple and tried to sway me to Dell saying that it is better to spend the difference(*$800 after Education Discount) somewhere else.(Note that I didn't account for card reader and finger printer or HDMI or backlit keyboard and ambience light they seem to cancel out as they are or sort of convenience feature amounting to similar monetary value)



I know people have mentioned Mac OS X advantage and iLife etc. but their monetary value would equal to only about $200 so accounting this its $600 difference.

XPS uses CCFL so being generous say slash $100 which brings down difference to $500.

What else?
Better build quality?

Apple does not seem to be so customer centred anymore or trying to make sure every single one of their product is perfect. With so many problems and etc. I have seen on this forum I am not sure if this fee is indeed for the quality. Are the numbers of problems with MBP amplified on this forum?

Software functionality premium?

Well may be Apple is indeed trying to recover the development fee for Mac OS X and all other consumer level software.

What else? What else?

I want to see some logical thoughts on this....
I am willing to pay quality premium of Max $250
Help me bring it down to 250 or more

PLEASE NOT one of the following or similar:

"Mac is cooler"(with no apparent reason)
"Dell is crap(with not evidence)"
"Vista is bad"
"Your life will be worthwile"
"Savings from not seeing your psychiatrist anymor etc."

*With exactly same spec as MBP: 2.4Ghz, 2GB Memory, 160GB HDD, nVidia Geforce 8600M GT with GDDR3 256 VRAM, 802.11n Wireless LAN, 9 cell battery(I wasn't sure about MBP batt but heard it was quite high specced), 1440x900 LCD, 1year warranty and Vista Ultimate(so at least it is some way in line with Leopard), Media remote or whatever...

 

[skyrider007]

buy whatever you want, it's not our jobs to justify you anything. macs have been more expensive (and will always be) than PC for ages. why? because it has superior design and operating system. got the money? go mac if not, get a PC and be happy with it. the end

p.s. it's not just about the specs, it's how well everything (software/hardware) work together. macs are best at doing that. vista is a different story.

 

[dimme]

IMO it sounds like you should get the Dell. The only advantage with the mac is to run 2 OS, but if money is tight why go through the extra $$$ of 2 OS's
Dell makes good machines also

 

[Cybergypsy]

buy what you want, only apple makes me happy ;0 if you can get away cheap, buy the dell......

 

[add2mac]

buy what you want, only apple makes me happy ;0 if you can get away cheap, buy the dell......

Apple makes me happy BUT NOT MY DAD!!!

 

[skyrider007]

Apple makes me happy BUT NOT MY DAD!!!

Ten Things Mom and Dad Should Know



1. A Mac is the perfect computer for life on campus.
With a Mac, students have a competitive edge in college. That’s because they are more productive, more creative, and more connected to their academic and extracurricular life. With a bulletproof operating system, the ability to integrate effortlessly with Windows PCs, and preloaded digital media software, a Mac is also available to every college student at a special education discount. What more could you ask for?

2. Microsoft Office runs on a Mac.
A Mac can run everything a student needs to be productive: Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Entourage. In fact, Microsoft has put additional features in the Mac versions that don’t exist on Windows. For more information on Microsoft’s products check out www.mactopia.com.

3. Learning on a Mac prepares students for the “real world.”
A Mac can help a student thrive in any major. Mac OS X is based on industry standards, which means students learn skills that can be used on any operating system. More important, the Mac provides the freedom to innovate. Instead of worrying about fitting in, students can choose the platform that allows the greatest professional and personal expression, flexibility, and growth. And if you need special help, Mac OS X offers innovative solutions for those with vision, hearing, or other disabilities, ensuring that everyone can have a customized computing experience.

4. Apple offers industry-leading support.
Every Mac comes with 90 days of toll-free phone support and a one-year limited warranty. In 2006, Apple’s warranty was rated number one for the fifth year running. And Apple is the only company that can provide hardware, software, and operating system support in one phone call. Students can even extend the toll-free phone support for up to three years with the AppleCare Protection Plan. Many campuses also have knowledgeable Mac service centers.

5. Students save cash on every Apple product.
Students enrolled in or accepted to U.S. higher education institutions are eligible for substantial discounts on Apple hardware and software. For details on discounts extended to students, visit the Apple Store for Education, and be sure to check with the local campus computer store. And if you’re looking for financing, we’re committed to making purchasing options as flexible as possible.

6. A Mac is loaded with everything you need.
When comparing prices with our competitors, make sure the Windows machine you’re pricing has the same features. Take a look at the extensive list of software and hardware included on a Mac before drawing any conclusions. iLife, Apple’s award-winning suite of digital media applications including iPhoto, iMovie HD, iDVD, GarageBand, and iWeb,1 is preloaded on every Mac. For similar applications on a PC, you’d have to spend hundreds of dollars.

7. iPod is a learning device.
iPod is more than just a music player. Students can use iPod and Griffin’s iTalk voice recorder to record class lectures, keep track of their appointments with a built-in calendar, and back up papers and class projects on gigabytes of hard drive space. Plus iTunes2 is more than just music. In addition to having instant access to countless songs, iTunes users can search for the best podcasts on the planet. And now, with iTunes U, universities across the country are beginning to use iTunes to distribute digital content to their students.

8. The Mac now has Intel inside.
Faster processing speeds, longer battery life, better compatibility. All of this is made possible by Apple’s partnership with Intel, announced in 2005. Every MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac mini ships with an Intel chip inside, delivering high performance and exceptional value.

9. Apple notebooks are the best way to connect.
Mobility, particularly in the age of wireless connectivity, is central to campus computing lifestyles. And while a desktop system will certainly do the trick, most students find that the freedom and flexibility of a notebook computer serves them better through their years at college. A quick glance at the competition reveals that MacBook and MacBook Pro are the best wireless notebooks in the industry.

10. Apple is happy to answer any questions you have.
You can visit any retail Apple Store or campus computer store to test-drive the latest Apple technology. We’re sure you’ll agree that the Mac gives students the competitive edge to get ahead in college.

 

[heatmiser]

If OS X is worth $800 more to you, get the MBP. If not, get the XPS. Simple.

 

[Tosser]

I know people have mentioned Mac OS X advantage and iLife etc. but their monetary value would equal to only about $200 so accounting this its $600 difference.

I find it hard to make OS X into an absolute monetary value. The reason being I really like OS X.

What else?
Better build quality?

Frankly? Not anymore.

Apple does not seem to be so customer centred anymore or trying to make sure every single one of their product is perfect.

True, they seem more conusmer oriented, in the sense "lowering the bar".

With so many problems and etc. I have seen on this forum I am not sure if this fee is indeed for the quality.

It's not any more.

Are the numbers of problems with MBP amplified on this forum?

Problems on any given forum is amplified.

Software functionality premium?

Could be. It rather depends what you will be using it for, and in which environment.







When it comes down to it, you might want to consider how you're going to use, and if you have apps or are going to be purchasing apps, that can or cannot run on OS X. Or if they can run on windows.
I finally have a functioning MBP after two years of having the mainbords exchanged endlessly, with a new MBP after three or four repairs (taking months each time). But this one* works, and I really like it. You might ask, why the hell I didn't give up? Well, OS X, but also the fact that I have quite a some of money invested in apps, that I would have to get similar to on the pc-side of things.

*my 2.33GHz,15 incher.

 

[add2mac]

Ten Things Mom and Dad Should Know

[SNIP]

Thank you very much for this!
This should cure my temporary insanity and my dad's hostility towards Apple.

When it comes down to it, you might want to consider how you're going to use, and if you have apps or are going to be purchasing apps, that can or cannot run on OS X. Or if they can run on windows.
I finally have a functioning MBP after two years of having the mainbords exchanged endlessly, with a new MBP after three or four repairs (taking months each time). But this one* works, and I really like it. You might ask, why the hell I didn't give up? Well, OS X, but also the fact that I have quite a some of money invested in apps, that I would have to get similar to on the pc-side of things.

*my 2.33GHz,15 incher.

Btw does Apple do warranty on their repair works as well?

 

[skyrider007]

Btw does Apple do warranty on their repair works as well?

Yeah, I think it's 90 days for the repaired part.

 

[design-is]

what will you be using the system for? that would factor at least a little bit...

 

[tanjacob]

The premium also covers bragging rights and the feel-good factor too.

 

[Tosser]

Ten Things Mom and Dad Should Know


1. A Mac is the perfect computer for life on campus.
With a Mac, students have a competitive edge in college. That’s because they are more productive, more creative, and more connected to their academic and extracurricular life. With a bulletproof operating system, the ability to integrate effortlessly with Windows PCs, and preloaded digital media software, a Mac is also available to every college student at a special education discount. What more could you ask for?

Load of crock. You don't need a mac to, say, write creatively. The OS is not "bulletproof", and how does "preloaded digital media software" do anything other than giving someone some toys (which are all fine and dandy, but has absolutely zilch to do with "competitive edge" in college.
Further, I'm quite sure you could get an educational discount on basically anything else as well. Just ask.

2. Microsoft Office runs on a Mac.

It runs on windows too. So that is not an "advantage" compared to a windows pc. And the latest - Office 2008 - doesn't support macros.

3. Learning on a Mac prepares students for the “real world.”
A Mac can help a student thrive in any major. Mac OS X is based on industry standards, which means students learn skills that can be used on any operating system. More important, the Mac provides the freedom to innovate. Instead of worrying about fitting in, students can choose the platform that allows the greatest professional and personal expression, flexibility, and growth. And if you need special help, Mac OS X offers innovative solutions for those with vision, hearing, or other disabilities, ensuring that everyone can have a customized computing experience.

What a load of crock. A computer – any computer is a tool, and does not in itself prepare anyone for the "real world".

4. Apple offers industry-leading support.

Lol, bull – in particular compared to european companies.

5. Students save cash on every Apple product.

Mentioned before. You can get discounts on other things too. And the discounts at the moment doesn't make up for the higher prices those discounts are calculated from.
possible.

6. A Mac is loaded with everything you need.

That kind of depends what they mean about "need".

7. iPod is a learning device.

Bull.
iPods works on windows just as well (or bad, depending on your view) as they do on a mac. Further, iPods have nothing to do with choosing a mac as your computer over a Windows-pc.

8. The Mac now has Intel inside.

So does many windows-PCs. That's not an "advantage" – it just means they're directly comparable to another intel-pc running windows.

9. Apple notebooks are the best way to connect.

Depends. Macs have notoriously slower USB2-speeds than their PC-counterparts. They do (most) have firewire, though.

10. Apple is happy to answer any questions you have.

LOL, as if any sales man aren't "happy to answer any questions". That is hardly an "advantage either.

Btw does Apple do warranty on their repair works as well?

Yes. Although living in Europe is has been a bitch. Apple in Europe doesn't have the service of the american counterpart.

Yeah, I think it's 90 days for the repaired part.

Depends – on the motherboards I got a year each time. However, I don't know if that was one of those "especially for you" (it has to be said with an italian accent) - kind of deals.

Not really. But I hardly think marketing materials constitute advise or anything resembling anything close to the "truth".

 

[tremendous]

Not really. But I hardly think marketing materials constitute advise or anything resembling anything close to the "truth".

of course not, but most people know that...or not. maybe you're right.

now, you're not even a little bit grumpy this morning? just a tad? or just a little salty?

 

[visiondancer]

Yeah, I think it's 90 days for the repaired part.

Just a correction; the warranty lasts one year. Phone Support lasts 90 days. After this time, if you call in and there isn't a problem with your Mac they will charge you for the call. If there is a problem with your Mac, you are still covered for one year.

They also offer their extended warranty (as does Dell) which, for AppleCare lasts three years (and extends full phone support to three years as well).

If you go for the Dell, just make sure you can get it Downgraded to XP from the factory!!! Vista is pretty, but there are a lot of people out there who still can't stand to actually use it, M$ software developers included.

Andy Ihnatko offered his view on what OS X 10.5 was worth over OS X 10.4 if you were to pay for hypothetical shareware that performed the same function in a recent Macworld. It might be an interesting read if you are trying to decide if OS X is worth the money over the Dell. Personally, I think $200 is a little undervalued for OSX and iLife .

Also, make sure you can still find the deal on the Dell; they are notorious for playing pricing games and if you try to navigate back to that deal, you might not be able to find that exact one the next day.

 

[masse]

as a mac user I don't feel obligated to help others waste their money like I do.

Stay in bliss. You won't need a mac if you've never had a mac.

 

[DaveF]

I have read previous post on XPS versus and MBP but found it unsatifactory as the forum seemed to go typical Mac vs PC in some way(like Boeing vs Airbus thread in aviation sites)

I was going to buy MBP tomorrow whether or not the new one is released tomorrow. Then my dad comes in with this special deal on Apple and tried to sway me to Dell saying that it is better to spend the difference(*$800 after Education Discount) somewhere else.(Note that I didn't account for card reader and finger printer or HDMI or backlit keyboard and ambience light they seem to cancel out as they are or sort of convenience feature amounting to similar monetary value)

What's this computer for? High school? College? Professional work? What is recommended for where you'll use it? If for college, does your program particularly recommend a Mac with certain software? Or a PC with specific software? Do you need a high-end laptop? The MacBook Pro is an expensive laptop. Why not a MacBook, or an iMac?

I can see your dad's perspective: $800 is a big price difference. That could pay for your books for the year (assuming college use).

(FWIW, I bought a MacBook Pro last summer. My first Mac, and I've no regrets paying the premium compared to a PC. And I'm glad I got the MBP over a MacBook. But if I were buying something for a school-bound son, I'd be inclined to either save money with a PC or get a MacBook to manage the cost.)

 

[tuneman07]

I am getting a Mac because I am so fed up with PC's its beyond belief. I have owned Gateway, Dell, HP, Compaq, and currently a VAIO. Every single one of them has become useless around the 2-3 year mark despite what should be usable specs. I don't know what it is they just start to slow down so much I need to buy another (planned obsolescence anyone?). Viruses and spyware are everywhere constantly despite my numerous anti-virus programs (not cheap). Whats almost worse are the residual files, folders, and constant pop ups/update screens for anti virus software I have tried to delete. This happens with non anti virus software as well though. I am so fed up with warnings from programs I deleted a year ago or more. Some of them won't even let me delete them ( they say I am not authorized). When my computer is telling me I can't do something it pisses me off. Then there is the whole "restart your computer now or I will restart on my own in 3 minutes" message. WTF is that?? I should be able to restart whenever I damn well please.

Anyway the point is I don't know if Mac has these problems or not, but I KNOW PC's do after all these years so I am taking the chance that Mac will not suck as bad as PC's seem to.

 

[xeux]

The only justification there is: Mac OS X.

End of story, there will always be cheaper for more that runs windows.

To me the value of running Mac OS X is worth a $1000 Premium.

To each his/her own.

One other thought, if you're dad is raising this debate he obviously doesn't own/use a mac.

 

[Gunga Din]

I'm looking to buy my first Mac as well, but I already have a Dell XPS desktop that handles my PC needs. Plus, i'm older, have a job so its easier for me to pay extra for the Mac. In the past $$ was an issue so I kept buying Dells (which worked out fine, never had a problem with them).

I'm switching to Mac for the OS and because I feel its better suited for my new hobby (film,video, music etc). Before I was using my PC for gaming and Office etc so it was better for those reasons.

If I was you, I'd get the Dell. Its a great price and I don't care what anybody says, they are a solid company (i've had 3 dells with no issues and the support was also fine).

If money isnt an issue, sure get a Mac. But your Dad brought up the pt about $800. Give him a break and get the Dell. Use the $800 for school (beer lol).

 

[akadmon]

One other thought, if you're dad is raising this debate he obviously doesn't own/use a mac.

I'm a dad (with a college bound daughter), and I own/use a mac. I'm sorry if some people find this offensive, but I too find myself questioning the Apple premium.

 

[djellison]

The only justification there is: Mac OS X.

End of story, there will always be cheaper for more that runs windows.

To me the value of running Mac OS X is worth a $1000 Premium.

To each his/her own.

Quoted for truth. You can not justify the price difference on the hardware alone. Apple hardware isn't worth much, if any more than PC hardware ( it isn't especially well built, isn't especially fast, isn't especially robust ). The ONLY justification is OSX tax. That's it.

Personally, at £1600, I don't think the MBP is worth it. At the £1100 I just spent on a refurb - it is, just.

DOug

 

[trip1ex]

Love my Mac, but the $2499 MBP is overpriced even by Apple's standards. The extra $500 over what the entry level MBP costs doesn't buy you much.

Go with the $2k MBP. Buy at Amazon or MacMall to take advantage of their rebate deals or get a refurb unit directly from Apple to save some bucks.

Or consider a Macbook which are nearly as fast in most instances except gaming and probably some higher-end graphical work.


The advantage of the Mac is the nice looking hardware and well thought out software that are from the same company. IT's a more enjoyable computer experience.

I think it's a bit obsolete to just compare hardware specs to determine what is the better value.

 

[conchshell]

If I was in college and my dad (assuming he was paying for the computer) felt $800 is needed elsewhere, I would do that. You will have plenty of time to get a mac later (or sooner if you are really committed to running mac os x)

 

[ABernardoJr]

I think of Macs being worth the extra money when you have it to spend. It can be argued that the monetary value won't justify anything, but think of it in a deeper sense than this.

The intangible things of the Mac OSX make it worth while. It's amazingly easier to use to some eyes (I said "some" because I don't want to make some generalization) and, as advertised, you may often find that it "just works." Sure there are benchmarks and speeds to measure, but things you can't just simply test and measure like how users tend to respond to using the OSX compared to some other operating systems AND the PC's they may run on. I've used PCs for years, and I think every one has failed at some point due to some hardware issues I believe. Although younger in its age, my MBP has only had battery failure, and it was replaced by Apple and works fine now.

The things that you can't necessarily measure with money and speeds, numbers, etc. are what make the Mac worthwhile. If you want to think about it in a football sense, here is an example. Imagine you get the choice of Peyton Manning to quarterback your team or Drew Brees to be QB. Both are great QBs (I'm a Charger fan, I've witnessed both very well), but also depending on what you are looking for, chances would even remain high that you are looking to sign Peyton Manning. Sure, by signing him it would cost you a LOT more money, but the things he can do that can AND can't be measured up (his intangibles on the field) make him stand out. Drew Brees may be able to show intangibles too of course, and can be a great passer for what he plays, but Manning just seems to have greater intangibles on the field at this point at least.

Very similar to the Macs and the OSX in my opinion. The Vista OS is hardly bad in my opinion, it looks pretty clean too. I just don't like the set up of it anymore, just dulls to me after seeing XP for so long with the format it puts everything in. It's still nice to me, and, I'm sure it might be argued to go both ways, but my opinion lies within feeling that OSX is better in ways that can't always be measured.