Please recommend me a good battery-backup (UPS) with surge protector included.

Discussion in 'iMac' started by doxavita, May 9, 2011.

  1. doxavita macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Please recommend me a good battery backup (UPS) with surge protector/conditioner included (Both functions in the same device).
    Please provide a link to the relevant Amazon/Newegg product only.

    How many VA / Watts do I need for a 27" iMac (2011, $2199: 3.4Ghz Core i7, 12GB of RAM) that I'll be buying soon. And perhaps only an external hard drive connected as well. Don't know if I'll buy a LED cinema display really further down the road (but not for now).

    I'm looking for something hopefully not too pricey (but properly getting the job done is more important)

    Does it have to be pure sine wave compatible?
    Will it be able to connect via USB to the iMac (and be detected), so if the power goes down the iMac will know what's going on and safely & automatically shut itself down (if I'm away).
    Is additional software needed? (and if so, would it be OS X compatible?)

    Which brand? APC or Cyberpower. I see most go with APC.
    Does it include a surge protection function/line conditioner, if the voltage goes up & down? Is the power plug standard? (with a grounded pole)
    How many minutes would the battery last?

    I was thinking of this one: http://www.amazon.com/APC-BR1000G-O...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1304816486&sr=1-1

    It's an APC BR1000G 600Watts/1000VA Back-UPS RS ($129.26.) Is it recognized by OS X? via USB? More software needed?
    Anything better than this? Is this fine, or should I go with the 1500VA one? would that be overkill?

    Here's the list of all UPS from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/764572/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last

    Again, please provide me with a link if you think there's something better out there (amazon/newegg only please)

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #2
    My opinion is that 600 W is cutting it kinda thin for an iMac, especially if you'll also be using external drives. Yes, the actual power consumption of the iMac is much less than that, but UPS's don't often live up to their billing, and battery life deteriorates over time. I use a 1500 W model with mine.

    Virtually any UPS will condition the power for your machine, and will absorb surges as well as any household surge protector.
     
  3. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Anybody? This is really important for me as I can't really use my new iMac without this first.

    Keep it simple. Just recommend me something which in your opinion meets the power requirements for a 27" inch iMac. Also if possible, something which OS X can recognize. Oh and one more thing, hopefully something not too pricey.
     
  4. rkaufmann87 macrumors 68000

    rkaufmann87

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    #4
    apc es-750
     
  5. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Ohh ok, that's a good start, thx, and all that talk about the type of sinewave, would that be an issue?
     
  6. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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  7. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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  8. westom macrumors regular

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    The output from this 120 volt UPS is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those waves. That UPS power is ideal for all electronics including the MAC due to what already exists and is done inside the supply.

    What are those square waves? Pure sine waves. Square waves are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. Their spin on a technical reality is cute. If it really was as 'clean' as you were to believe, then their specs including a %THD number. It doesn't. Advertising is about spinning half truths by avoiding such numbers.

    The UPS is a temporary and 'dirty' power source. Power often so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. And perfectly ideal perfect power for any electronics. Don't worry about myths that promote power conditioning or pure sine waves. Since that 'cleanest' 120 volts gets converted to spikes of well over 300 volts inside the supply anyway. Any 'cleaning' to AC power is completely undone inside every supply.

    If the UPS does surge protection, then its numbers also say how it absorbs surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. It doesn't. Its joules numbers will be just above zero. Just enough above zero that advertising can claim it as 100% protection in subjective advertising.

    You asked for three things. 1) Any UPS provides temporary power. But oversize it because battery life expectancy is typically three years. Typical computers consume about 200 watts with maybe 300 watt peaks. Oversize to maybe 500 watts so that a UPS's degrading battery will provide sufficient power three plus years later. 2) Superior line conditioning is already done better inside your Macs supply. 3) All electronics already contain superior surge protection. Your concern is a rare surge (maybe once every seven years) that may overwhelm that existing protection. Hundreds of joules in that UPS (read its spec numbers) will do nothing. Earth one 'whole house' protector for the only effective solution; to protect from that rare and destructive transient.
     
  9. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Very interesting, thanks, I really appreciate your input. I think I'll be buying that CyberPower one I just mentioned above your post, good price and it does seem to include plenty of protection.
     
  10. westom macrumors regular

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    #10
    Apparently you misunderstood what was posted. If it provides protection, then you have a number that defines protection. The amazon.com citation lists no protection numbers. How many joules in that UPS will absorb a destructive surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? It lists no numbers so that a majority will "know" it must do protection. Protection is near zero. One of many reasons why specifications do not list any protection number (along with no %THD number). Numbers have a bad habit of tarnishing popular myths.

    For your purposes, even a sub-$100 UPS may be sufficient. That Cyberpower is also more power than a desktop typically needs. However other functions (not discussed or requested) may be desirable.
     
  11. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Well, this is that UPS's official page: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/pr...?selectedTabId=specifications&imageI=#tab-box

    Maybe you could look under their "specifications" tab. Does it meet that protection? Sorry, but I'm not too knowledgeable regarding those technical matters. Let me know what you think.

    I would like to have additional watts/VA so the battery backup lasts longer (more minutes, and being able to plugin other devices), and the battery itself more lifetime years.
     
  12. philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

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    #12
    vanns has a very good deal www.vanns.com

    apc s15

    299usd

    A true beast!
     
  13. clark1 macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Thanks for heads up on the apc s15. I have been happy with an h15 non-battery unit in my home theater. I ordered the s15 after seeing your alert.

    Will
     
  14. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    What's so special about that APC S15?
     
  15. doxavita, May 9, 2011
    Last edited: May 9, 2011

    doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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  16. iBookG4user macrumors 604

    iBookG4user

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    #17
    I have a CyberPower UPS and it works fine under Mac OS X. It is recognized and you can change all of the power settings in System Preferences.
     
  17. westom, May 9, 2011
    Last edited: May 9, 2011

    westom macrumors regular

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    #18
    It only has one line that claims any protection. 1,030 Joules means it used 345 and never more than 685 joules in protection. How does that absorb a destructive surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. And those specifications also do not list protection from any type of surge. If it claimed any protection, then any layman could have seen those numbers. No such numbers are provided. All protection exists only in advertising.

    What was listed in amazon.com advertising as "Pure" sine wave is called by Cyberpower advertising as "Adaptive" sine wave. The 120 volt UPS outputting 200 volt square waves is also an adaptive or pure sine wave. In advertising, subjective wording can mean same or anything else. Useful information always means numbers.

    That Cyberpower has two other potentially useful features. A USB communication cable. And USB ports that apparently can recharge compatible portable appliances. But its only and primary pupose - to provide temporary and 'dirty' power. A Mac makes 'dirty' power irrelevant and sufficient.

    As noted earlier. To protect existing and superior protection already inside a Mac (and furnace, TV, bathroom GFCI, refrigerator, etc) and to protect the Cyberpower, earth one 'whole house' protector.
     
  18. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    But it is "Pure Sine Wave" after all isn't it? That's what attracted me to that particular model. I also like the fact it has a USB connection for Energy Saver preferences.

    Anybody know, if the power goes down, is the automatic shut-down gracefull? In other words, does OS X take the precaution of closing all programs/files BEFORE the shut-down? Or is the shut-down sudden? I really would like to know this..
     
  19. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #20
    By funny coincidence, I also bought that very CP UPS from Amazon that you bought, doxavita. It will be here Thursday, so I'll hook it up then. My reasoning is that I will also be plugging in a couple of hubs with external hard drives, so we'll see how that works. To be frank, I am also not up on all the tech, as westom apparently is, I just bought what I've seen recommended elsewhere. In any case, I have much worse problems then you do, likely - the apartment I'm in, is in a house built in 1928, and most of the electrical system is about that old... it's always a struggle trying not to overload it.
     
  20. westom macrumors regular

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    #21
    Also a pure sine wave is a 120 volt UPS that outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between the square waves. Show me the number for "pure". No number means a 'dirtiest' UPS is also a pure sine wave. All 'dirty' electricity is only a sum of pure sine waves - as demonstrated in high school calculus.

    Again, any claim made without numbers is best assumed to be bogus. Also called advertising.

    Any power down to PCs since the 1990s does not harm saved data. USB commuication port tell OS-X to save unsaved data and power down 'now'. That function is little useful to desktop users - only convenient. Is mostly useful for servers.

    If household wiring can support 15 amp appliances, then that power is ideal perfect for all computers (assuming breakers are not tripping due to overload). Computers must work perfectly happy even when incandescent bulbs dim to less than 50% intensity. How often is 1928 wiring causing dimming? Then do not cure symptoms with a UPS. Solve a potentially major human safety threat. 1928 wiring that can support incandescent bulbs with or without dimming is sufficient for any computer.
     
  21. mrfoof82 macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    APC Back-UPS RS700 / Back-UPS Pro 700

    For me this can power a Mid-2010 Mac Mini, external FW800 3.5" hard disk and 27" LED Cinema Display for ~35 minutes. You should get at least 20 minutes to power a 27" iMac. I'll be using it to keep both a 27" iMac and 27" Cinema Display running once the iMac shows up (fully loaded 2011).

    If the Mini is asnooze (instead of off), it can keep it powered for about 9 hours.

    USB connection, instantly recognized by OS X (no drivers to install, just go under the Power preferences pane), and the display shows current power draw, total runtime, charge level, voltage and number of events. Audible alert can be muted during an event with a single button press. It also has "smart plugs" which means if the master device is detected to be off (i.e. the computer) it will turn off peripherals (i.e. printers) if you desire.
     
  22. doxavita thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Sorry but I'm not too knowledgeable regarding those technical matters...
    Do iMacs benefit from Pure Sine Wave UPS's? Is that safe for external hard drives too? Is it better?

    Do iMacs have an Active PFC power supply?

    I would like to spend a bit more on a UPS (for more watts/VA and a longer battery running time)
     
  23. mrfoof82 macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    They make them up to 1500VA, which should be closer to 45 minutes of runtime, even if you have the display set very bright.

    If the power is out for more than 5 minutes, what are you really going to be doing that you can't stop and power down? Seriously. Even the financial services companies I consult for will shut their servers down after 5 minutes (that's what the DR site is for), and their analysts and developers don't even have UPSes. The only extra runtime you need beyond 10 minutes is to handle multiple events within a short period of time, and that's ONLY if you configure the iMac to come back on when power is restored. If you have it shut down automatically after 5 minutes and stay off, you're more than covered.

    I'll be running the 700VA unit for a fully-loaded 2011 27" iMac and Cinema Display, because even that is overkill. A 27" Core i7 iMac at idle, with the display not set to insanity barely draws 100W, and I don't think even draws 150W going balls out.
     
  24. westom macrumors regular

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    #25
    "The UPS is a temporary and 'dirty' power source. Power often so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. And perfectly ideal perfect power for any electronics. Don't worry about myths that promote power conditioning or pure sine waves."

    Electronics (ie disk drive), due to its own power supply, also make 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant. All electronics consider that 'dirty' power as ideal. Its 'pure but really not' output should not adversely affect any electronics. And easy to prove. Once you have the UPS charged, then pull its AC power cord from the wall. A Mac must work just fine on that only UPS power.
     

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