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Please try harder Apple, -I just got a dell

I'm in a different boat in that my employer offers me a choice in my laptop. I chose a MBP this time, but I'm not sure I will do the same for the next refresh. It's not the touchbar or price that has me questioning this; it's the fact my workflow has changed. At this stage of my career, OS X is not offering anything more than Windows can, and I can eliminate having to run a VM.

For home, we maintain two laptops. The MB Air and Dell XPS 15 are still going strong, so I don't need to make any moves yet. I noticed Dell just released two new precision mobile workstations that ship with Ubuntu. They look like really nice machines and will definitely widen my radar for the next purchase.

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-15-5520-laptop/pd?oc=xctop5520hwus
 
maflynn said:
Lets try to get back on topic - The thread seems to veering off and I think there's still a lot of good discussions left.

I may be repeating myself but in an effort to get this thread a little more on topic, I'll say this:

I think the topic of this thread is telling, because there are people who are unhappy with the direction of the Apple's laptop. I think for price/performance/features Dells do make a compelling case. I posted this a number of times, but I think for my case, it bears repeating. Apple has priced themselves out of the market for me. I cannot justify spending 3,000 dollars (or close to that).

I understand others can and do, and I'm not knocking them but for me, its a bitter pill for me to swallow. Especially since it seems how little macOS has been improved these past few years. I have high hopes that WWDC is going to show off some major improvements to macOS because the operating system is the other half of the equation when it comes to computers, i.e., what good is the hardware if the OS/Software doesn't allow you to do what you want to do.
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Thanks for the re-direction :)

I agree this is nothing to do with knocking others choice its to understand others lack of enthusiasm for the new MBP and the appeal of other OEM's offerings
 
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Look, let's be a bit more rational about the pricing on these machines.

The new 15" Touchbar with 16/256GB is 2249.00 (in the USA). The previous version was 1999.00 for the base model. I'm sorry, but I don't know a SOUL who can afford 2k but not 250 dollars more. That's just silly. And if you're in a country where values skew pricing too high, that's not Apple's fault. The same thing happens with Nikon, Canon, Dodge, and even food products.

The biggest bargain on the planet has to be the 13" base Touchbar, which I also own alongside the 15". For a mere 200 bucks more than my loaded MacBook Air, I have a VASTLY superior machine. It makes the Air look like it should cost 799.00! The new machines are beautifully built (likely the best built), well rounded designs that are priced accordingly.

The ONLY laptops that I flirted with were the Dell XPS (for around $1800.00) and tried out a Surface Pro 4. Neither of these options provided the overall experience and professional profile that I require. For PROFESSIONAL usage the difference in price is meaningless.

Complaining about Apple pricing is a lot like crying over Porsche pricing. If you don't think they offer value, buy a Mustang. But you're not going to convince many Porsche drivers that they got a poor value.


R.
 
SteveJUAE said:
Thanks for the re-direction :)

I agree this is nothing to do with knocking others choice its to understand others lack of enthusiasm for the new MBP and the appeal of other OEM's offerings
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Very much agree, MR's forums are about opinions, understanding & meeting in the middle. Personally I find it interesting reading of others needs and workflows be it Apple or others, however since launch of the 2016 MBP we have seen a minority literally go on a "crusade" to defend Apple at every step, literally every post that has any negative connotation they look to discredit forum members and or derail the thread entirely, forcing only their point of view!

Yet the same individuals rarely if ever offer any advice to assist other forum members, same applies to their personal usage, with some their entire MR post history being solely one of the defence of Apple :rolleyes: this we don't need. Apple stands by it's own merits, not the shill's of the internet...

Q-6
 
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Queen6 said:
Very much agree, MR's forums are about opinions, understanding & meeting in the middle. Personally I find it interesting reading of others needs and workflows be it Apple or others, however since launch of the 2016 MBP we have seen a minority literally go on a "crusade" to defend Apple at every step, literally every post that has any negative connotation they look to discredit forum members and or derail the thread entirely, forcing only their point of view!

Yet the same individuals rarely if ever offer any advice to assist other forum members, same applies to their personal usage, with some their entire MR post history being solely one of the defence of Apple :rolleyes: this we don't need. Apple stands by it's own merits, not the shill's of the internet...

Q-6
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:) I promised to be good LOL

Whilst maflynn make a point below :

maflynn said:
Apple has priced themselves out of the market for me. I cannot justify spending 3,000 dollars (or close to that).
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It's obviously a personal one in so far when is enough enough. Whilst there is no reason to discuss ones personal finances. We have all been in a position on some purchase where we have had to say NO.

So bank balances aside, at what point do some of us perceive the value of the MBP has diminished and by what criteria do we judge this by ?

How much weightage of factuals count vs perceptions and preferences ?

IMO many get facts mixed and certainly with most OEM's we are only second guessing what happens inside Apple and even some of the data released by Apple has only generic value.

Of course we can make reasonable guesstimates, forecast and generalisations but these are not facts.

Like some of us here my overall assessment of the new MBP is it has crossed some new perceived threshold based on a set of personal requirements and comparisons to others that has diminished its appeal

I'm certainly interested to see if others have similar thoughts and if there is a common thread between us
 
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CaptRB said:
2K is a large purchase?

Maybe for a student, but not for most professionals buying MacBook Pro's.
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2K is a lot of money for a lot of folks. There are many people in between a student and a professional that use Apple's products.
 
SteveJUAE said:
:) I promised to be good LOL

Whilst maflynn make a point below :



It's obviously a personal one in so far when is enough enough. Whilst there is no reason to discuss ones personal finances. We have all been in a position on some purchase where we have had to say NO.

So bank balances aside, at what point do some of us perceive the value of the MBP has diminished and by what criteria do we judge this by ?

How much weightage of factuals count vs perceptions and preferences ?

IMO many get facts mixed and certainly with most OEM's we are only second guessing what happens inside Apple and even some of the data released by Apple has only generic value.

Of course we can make reasonable guesstimates, forecast and generalisations but these are not facts.

Like some of us here my overall assessment of the new MBP is it has crossed some new perceived threshold based on a set of personal requirements and comparisons to others that has diminished its appeal

I'm certainly interested to see if others have similar thoughts and if there is a common thread between us
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You make interesting points.

But again, these are tools, not jewelry or even cars. My usage envelope is higher-end than average. My associates are cutting a feature on these machines. We really don't care much about anything beyond a hammer that can hit a nail and drive it properly.

The question is simple: Are the new new tools better than the previous ones and the answer is yes.

Any defense or critique of Apple by me is based on experience with the actual product over time and seeing it used in several professional settings that include medical, photography and film.

Does this make it perfect for everyone? Of course not. And I've read very VALID reasons why the new machine doesn't work for some people, which include: Real need for 32GB ram or someone just can't get used to the new keyboard.

But sadly a gross amount of complaining is not very valid, based on hearsay and the very common attacks we see with every Apple (and any other flagship brand) that seem to plague forums. Some guy crying over USB-C or the new keyboard with little to no time with the machine is just not valid. He can still post it, but others here will call him out on it.

The crying over the cost is not valid at all, because the machines are really only a bit more expensive and offering more. Apple designs and builds premium products. You can opt to buy something cheaper, but the pricing is fair and consistent with previous releases. The math is the math.


R.
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belvdr said:
2K is a lot of money for a lot of folks. There are many people in between a student and a professional that use Apple's products.
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And this means what?

Apple sells a premium product and doesn't owe anyone a lower price if they can sell it at a higher one. If the public turns their back due to pricing, Apple will adjust, but that's not what we're seeing.

I went shopping for a exotic sports car last month. Two things happened: I was too tall for the car. And at over a quarter of a million dollars I just wasn't comfortable with the overall package for the money and expected depreciation.

I did not rush over to a car forum and cry that they should sell it for less. That would be lunacy. I did write to the builder and talk about the cabin size and they responded sensibly. But in the end I made a decision and kept the cheaper (and faster) sports car I currently drive. I don't run to forums and cry about it. I'm lucky that I can afford ANY car at all...or ANY computer when over 20,000 people will starve to death in the next 24 hours.

R.
 
CaptRB said:
And this means what?
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You stated that anyone who can afford $2,000 can also afford $2,250. Your claim was that it is silly if they cannot, which is not true.

It has nothing to do with Apple owing anyone anything or you buying cars.
 
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Partron22 said:
OLED touch bar gimmick instead of a better battery life says different.
This last gen. was a rush job, and it shows.
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The comment above pretty much falls into the zone of critique that I was talking about.

It's an attack on a product plain and simple and no evidence is given to back up the comment.

Is this person aware of how the touch bar is being used in various apps? Does he know that several writing programs are already developing for it?

If the new MBP is a rush job, they should keep on rushing. As I said, I bought two of the 13" models and when I picked up the 15" version is PROMPTLY sold last years version because it was so obviously inferior and felt/looked so as well. Specifically: the old keyboard is wobbly and cheap feeling and the improvements in screen/speakers/trackpad fully round off the package for editing. I back up what I say rather than tossing around adjectives all day long.

And yes, if 250 dollars is too much for you to pay over the old inferior model for all of these advancements, then buy something else. Why is that such a dilemma? Tiffany and Lamb won't drop their prices either.

And comparison to cars is VERY on point. Both a car and a laptop are tools that many view as a fashion statement. Apple works VERY hard on their marketing in that direction. Here in Hollywood on a production meeting anyone pulling out a Dell will likely be regarded in the same way as someone driving a Smart Car...not very smart! :cool:


R.
 
CaptRB said:
The comment above pretty much falls into the zone of critique that I was talking about.

It's an attack on a product plain and simple and no evidence is given to back up the comment.

Is this person aware of how the touch bar is being used in various apps? Does he know that several writing programs are already developing for it?

If the new MBP is a rush job, they should keep on rushing. As I said, I bought two of the 13" models and when I picked up the 15" version is PROMPTLY sold last years version because it was so obviously inferior and felt/looked so as well. Specifically: the old keyboard is wobbly and cheap feeling and the improvements in screen/speakers/trackpad fully round off the package for editing. I back up what I say rather than tossing around adjectives all day long.

And yes, if 250 dollars is too much for you to pay over the old inferior model for all of these advancements, then buy something else. Why is that such a dilemma? Tiffany and Lamb won't drop their prices either.

And comparison to cars is VERY on point. Both a car and a laptop are tools that many view as a fashion statement. Apple works VERY hard on their marketing in that direction. Here in Hollywood on a production meeting anyone pulling out a Dell will likely be regarded in the same way as someone driving a Smart Car...not very smart! :cool:


R.
Click to expand...
Your contradicting yourself, your doing what your asking people not to do. In that post above your putting down last yrs MBP saying it cheap and wobbly and then your also putting down people who drive smart cars and Dell. All to further your agenda.

Hey I enjoy reading about people who like Apple products but you are also putting down products and people which is what your also asking people not to do.
 
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MrGuder said:
Your contradicting yourself, your doing what your asking people not to do. In that post above your putting down last yrs MBP saying it cheap and wobbly and then your also putting down people who drive smart cars and Dell. All to further your agenda.

Hey I enjoy reading about people who like Apple products but you are also putting down products and people which is what your also asking people not to do.
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MrGuder, you are among those who have a negative agenda, attending threads to post negative comments or support negative comments made by others. Which of the new MBP units do you own to give your 1st hand feedback with?

And I specifically and correctly stated that the previous keyboard is indeed cheap and wobbly feeling. That's NOT a opinion. It does in fact WOBBLE. I still own a MB Air and those keys also wobble. Tell us how a wobbly keyboard impacts a feeling of quality.

As I stated, I back up what I say. I own the products and while anyone can post their views, 2nd hand or 3rd hand feedback on a device will always be suspect. I don't pay a lot of attention to armchair critics who appear to "dig" for faults and flaws to keep the trolling going. We had a gentleman here a couple of weeks ago doing that, claiming he owned the machine, admitting he returned it and then pretending he still had it. Banned.

BTW, I've posted VALID negative comments on the new machines and oddly enough there was agreement. So much for my agenda.

I think we can all be polite and hear about 1st hand issues, but how many times will you tell owners that this particular machine doesn't fit your specific needs? We get it. You don't like it. Move on or add something NEW to talk about.


R.
 
Well I can tell you first hand that I had (2) 2015 MBP models one a 2.2 and the other a 2.5, I then had (2) 2016 MBP 2.6 all for 2 or 2.5 weeks. I suppose you never followed any of my prior posts about how I tested them and I even had both the 2015 and the 2016 for about 1.5 weeks together to really give them a test everyday. I even posted some of my likes and dislikes. I can tell you for certain that the 2015 keyboard is neither wobbly or cheap, did it have a different touch feedback yes but it performed perfectly well. I actually liked it except for the back light bleed. I mentioned in my reviews that I actually liked the 2016 keyboard better and typed faster and I actually preferred it for how the keys felt to touch them and use them. What I wrote about how they keys did not sound uniform across the board. I went thought all this in great detail. I won't rehash it again.

I would suggest you go back and read some of my prior posts about getting these machines and how they worked for me. I still think you are too deep into this and need to take a break, it's just a laptop it's not the end of the world because people may not like it for certain reasons.
 
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MrGuder said:
Well I can tell you first hand that I had (2) 2015 MBP models one a 2.2 and the other a 2.5, I then had (2) 2016 MBP 2.6 all for 2 or 2.5 weeks. I suppose you never followed any of my prior posts about how I tested them and I even had both the 2015 and the 2016 for about 1.5 weeks together to really give them a test everyday. I even posted some of my likes and dislikes. I can tell you for certain that the 2015 keyboard is neither wobbly or cheap, did it have a different touch feedback yes but it performed perfectly well. I actually liked it except for the back light bleed. I mentioned in my reviews that I actually liked the 2016 keyboard better and typed faster and I actually preferred it for how the keys felt to touch them and use them. What I wrote about how they keys did not sound uniform across the board. I went thought all this in great detail. I won't rehash it again.

I would suggest you go back and read some of my prior posts about getting these machines and how they worked for me. I still think you are too deep into this and need to take a break, it's just a laptop it's not the end of the world because people may not like it for certain reasons.
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[doublepost=1489025875][/doublepost]
MrGuder said:
Well I can tell you first hand that I had (2) 2015 MBP models one a 2.2 and the other a 2.5, I then had (2) 2016 MBP 2.6 all for 2 or 2.5 weeks. I suppose you never followed any of my prior posts about how I tested them and I even had both the 2015 and the 2016 for about 1.5 weeks together to really give them a test everyday. I even posted some of my likes and dislikes. I can tell you for certain that the 2015 keyboard is neither wobbly or cheap, did it have a different touch feedback yes but it performed perfectly well. I actually liked it except for the back light bleed. I mentioned in my reviews that I actually liked the 2016 keyboard better and typed faster and I actually preferred it for how the keys felt to touch them and use them. What I wrote about how they keys did not sound uniform across the board. I went thought all this in great detail. I won't rehash it again.

I would suggest you go back and read some of my prior posts about getting these machines and how they worked for me. I still think you are too deep into this and need to take a break, it's just a laptop it's not the end of the world because people may not like it for certain reasons.
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I really don't know how to respond to "alternative facts" posts like this, but I'm always down for a laugh.

You have zero credibility when you say the previous keyboards don't have wobble in the keys. Z-E-R-0. None. Nada. Zilchorino. One of the main points of the new design was to create keys with less play and a more precise action, but I suppose we'll ignore the physics and just acknowledge that YOUR keyboards have no play. Even if Apple and every review point out the differences. Apple obviously sent you a special set of Macs! So why debate when we all have very different Macs?

You keep saying "I'm in too deep" but I'm having fun with you. You keep stepping in it and just merrily go along, so why kill the laughs?


R.
 
CaptRB said:
2K is a large purchase?

Maybe for a student, but not for most professionals buying MacBook Pro's.


R.
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It is for me, I work hard for my money and spending 2,000 dollars is something I don't take lightly. I'm no where near a student anymore but yet, spending that sort of money is considered a large purchase.

I'm happy for you, that you are in a place in life that you can easily spend 2,000 dollars but not everyone here on MR is.
 
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CaptRB said:
I really don't know how to respond to "alternative facts" posts like this, but I'm always down for a laugh.
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For starters, use multi-quote and help our moderators out. :)

CaptRB said:
You have zero credibility when you say the previous keyboards don't have wobble in the keys. Z-E-R-0. None. Nada. Zilchorino.
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He said the keys weren't wobbly, not zero play in them. To quote Merriam Webster's Dictionary:

a : to move or proceed with an irregular rocking or staggering motion or unsteadily and clumsily from side to side
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To me, that says the keys would be all over the place while you're typing. So they can have play in them but they are not unsteady.
 
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belvdr said:
For starters, use multi-quote and help our moderators out. :)



He said the keys weren't wobbly, not zero play in them. To quote Merriam Webster's Dictionary:



To me, that says the keys would be all over the place while you're typing. So they can have play in them but they are not unsteady.
Click to expand...





Less wobbly? Not unsteady?

The keys of the previous MBP move side to side and float with more play than the current keyboard. They also ROCK, wobble and feel spongy compared to the new design. Additionally, light pours brightly around them via light leaks that always looked so cheap for a premium product.

You can argue semantics all day long, but relative to the new keyboard, the old one feels pretty shabby.

Oddly, my issue with the new keyboard was about key spacing. I adapted to the difference in travel easily. Part of this may be because I'm 54 and still young enough to adapt fast. My 77 year old father took longer.

Now...Just curious...which 2016 MacBook Pro are you using and what are your impressions after using the new keyboard design for a while?

R.
 
maflynn said:
It is for me, I work hard for my money and spending 2,000 dollars is something I don't take lightly. I'm no where near a student anymore but yet, spending that sort of money is considered a large purchase.

I'm happy for you, that you are in a place in life that you can easily spend 2,000 dollars but not everyone here on MR is.
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You are right. Some professionals are not in a zone where they can take such an expenditure lightly.
I redact my statement.



R.
[doublepost=1489075756][/doublepost]One more little item...

Prior to the release of the new MBP and previous MacBook, the new keyboards were broadly tested by PEOPLE. This included owners, non-owners and everyone in between.

Apple doesn't just build a release a product. The new keyboards were a hit with a large margin of preference over the previous generation. THAT is why they moved forward and released the improved keyboard.

As with any test of this type, some users did NOT like the new design. But Apple is a business and they liked the numbers overall for the new keyboard.

This is the math of a business like this. It's the same for many products, from toasters to cars. A few people drop off, but building the customer base and keeping it is the name of the game.


R.
 
maflynn said:
It is for me, I work hard for my money and spending 2,000 dollars is something I don't take lightly. I'm no where near a student anymore but yet, spending that sort of money is considered a large purchase.

I'm happy for you, that you are in a place in life that you can easily spend 2,000 dollars but not everyone here on MR is.
Click to expand...

Well even sub $2000 seems a no go for most in the just released refurb thread :

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...thout-touch-bar-to-refurbished-store.2036200/

Mutton dress as lamb seems the sentiment there
 
CaptRB said:
You can argue semantics all day long, but relative to the new keyboard, the old one feels pretty shabby.
Click to expand...

I never compared the old and new keyboards. In fact, I never compared the old and new systems at all.

I simply said your conversion from the term "no wobble" to "zero play" was incorrect; they mean two different things. Sure the keys have some play. I don't have an issue with it.

CaptRB said:
Now...Just curious...which 2016 MacBook Pro are you using and what are your impressions after using the new keyboard design for a while?
Click to expand...

I don't own one and never considered it.

EDIT: Just ignore me. I need to learn to let things go.
 
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