Poll: Do you buy 'family packs'?

[ThunderRobot]

If you are trying to stay focused on ethical issues why bother responding to a post which is clearly discussing other aspects of software sales? Why get involved if you don't want to discuss the pros and cons of the issue?

I have no problem with your opinion - if you notice from some of my posts I completely respect and understand the current Apple pricing policy. I also have several ideas why it is that way.

I say you only acknowledge your own opinion because in your own words you "don't care to get dragged to far into that" and as result you won't engage in debate. You keep repeating a point about piracy which was irrelevant and unrelated to the discussion.

As for an endless conversation - well, if we were to delete the threads that were dedicated to things we couldn't influence there wouldn't be much left in this discussion board.

I genuinely struggle to understand why you answered my point if you didn't want to properly engage in discussion.

Either way, I'm drawing a line under this conversation and moving on.

Whoa there, ThunderRobot. I hear what you are trying to discuss. I have been trying to staying focused on ethics issues while you want to discuss what you think Apple should be doing instead of what they do now. That is a conversation that is endless because none of us here are going to affect what Apple does in that regard. So you can spin your wheels on that part of the conversation if you want. I don't care to get dragged to far into that.

I expressed my opinion and you did not like. Therefore I only acknowledge my own point of view. That's ridiculous.

My point of view is that I don't have a problem with Apple not offering upgrades to iWork and iLife because I think the software is inexpensive enough for what it does to not require it. If the software was more expensive ~($199) then I would argue that there should be an upgrade path. My other point of view is that you should not install Apple software on multiple Apple systems you do not have multiple licenses.

Nowhere have I said that you could not have your own opinion. Nowhere have I accused you of being "pedantic". All I have done is to say I disagree with what you are saying and why I disagree with it. It's unfair for you to say I only acknowledge my opinion because it is different than yours and I choose to stand by it.

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[thebassoonist]

With my first iMac, I bought a single copy of iWork back in 2007. Recently I bought a refurb MacBook Pro, and while placing the order - and not having read the license agreement - I asked the Mac Store sales rep if I had to buy a second copy for it... she said I didn't need to, since both computers belong to me and weren't used simultaneously... "that's why the license number is printed twice in the sw documentation" she said.

After reading another thread here, I learned I was in breach of the EULA... so I've called Apple several times - sales, support and customer service - and every time they tell me it's OK to have my two computers with a single license... so for now I guess my conscience is clear.

Nevertheless, once Snow Leopard comes out, I plan to buy the Box Set family pack to update both computers' OS, iLife and iWork and quit having doubts about this.

My guess is that either Apple doesn't care too much about the EULA in cases such as mine, where one person has two computers (and maybe while having a family pack some would feel compelled to share the other 3 remaining licenses outside their household)... or, maybe that Apple's sales, support and customer service reps have no idea about the EULA... either way, I do think Apple should be clearer in such cases.

I think so, too. Apparently at least two of us have tried to do the right thing (ask an Apple employee at the store) and have still broken the rule.

To Sidewinder,

Would you mind looking up a bit in the thread and answering my question?

 

[sidewinder]

If you are trying to stay focused on ethical issues why bother responding to a post which is clearly discussing other aspects of software sales? Why get involved if you don't want to discuss the pros and cons of the issue?

I have no problem with your opinion - if you notice from some of my posts I completely respect and understand the current Apple pricing policy. I also have several ideas why it is that way.

I say you only acknowledge your own opinion because in your own words you "don't care to get dragged to far into that" and as result you won't engage in debate. You keep repeating a point about piracy which was irrelevant and unrelated to the discussion.

As for an endless conversation - well, if we were to delete the threads that were dedicated to things we couldn't influence there wouldn't be much left in this discussion board.

I genuinely struggle to understand why you answered my point if you didn't want to properly engage in discussion.

Either way, I'm drawing a line under this conversation and moving on.

That's always a solid tactic when you don't have a leg to stand on: make some statements then run and hide!

Just because I, personally, was trying to stay focused on the ethical issues does not mean I cannot comment on your position regarding upgrades. I made my opinion known regarding upgrades and said no more. I didn't want to continue going down that road because it was not what the thread was started to discuss and I, personally, thought that it was a dead end. I didn't say you couldn't take the thread that direction. I just told you why I wasn't pursuing that aspect of it further.

You say I only acknowledge my own opinion because in my own words I "don't care to get dragged to far into that". That makes no sense. Not wanting to follow a tangent "too far" does not mean I acknowledge my own opinion only.

I am sorry, but the point of this thread was, initially anyway, piracy. Do you follow the rules of Apple's software license or do you use illegal copies of Apple's software. Your ideas on what Apple should do with upgrades are what is a tangent to that particular discussion. You saying that my points about piracy are "irrelevant and unrelated to the discussion" is more than laughable.

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[sidewinder]

To Sidewinder,

Would you mind looking up a bit in the thread and answering my question?

I am not sure which question you want answered. Do you care to repeat it?

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[thebassoonist]

Sidewinder, is it possible for me to now upgrade to a family pack? As a college student who has blown almost all of her savings on grad school applications (not to mention textbooks and tuition), I can't afford to buy a new copy of a single-user (or single-use) version. Should I just delete the programs off of one of my computers to be within the law? In the future, I shall read the entire license agreements before buying the software, that way I don't get confused by Apple's employees.

Here it is again.

 

[ThunderRobot]

That's always a solid tactic when you don't have a leg to stand on: make some statements then run and hide!

Once again you have exhibited an impressive ability to completely miss the point. The fact that you’ve done it continually through the thread leads me to assume you must be either a politician or a high school student.

Rather than running and hiding I simply elected to stop the thread being bored by your responses to arguments that exist only in your head and prolonging a cyclical conversation.

For the record, this is my last post in this thread. However I’m not running anywhere – if you want to continue this, take it private, but there’s no point cluttering up this thread further with your nonsense.

 

[sidewinder]

Once again you have exhibited an impressive ability to completely miss the point.

Another classic maneuver! If someone does not discuss something the way you want them to discuss it or see things the way you see them, accuse them of missing the point.

What point or points did I miss?

That you agree Apple should be able to define their software license the way they want but you think their license could be improved? Nope, I got that one.

That you don't like having to pay full price, regardless what that price is, for a license for a suite of programs, many of which you don't want and will never use, just to get an upgrade for a program you do use? I got that one too.

That you think Apple should offer an upgrade path of some type? Got it.

Just because I am not following the path you want to take the discussion does not mean I am missing the point or that I only acknowledge my own opinion.

Because I don't fall in line with what you say, you accuse me of being biased, sycophantic, pedantic, lacking reason, and unable to understand your points. I don't understand what your problem is. You disagree with what I say? Great. That's your prerogative. That's what makes the world go 'round. I am not going to accuse you of being biased, sycophantic, pedantic, lacking reason, and unable to understand my points because of it.

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[sidewinder]

Sidewinder, is it possible for me to now upgrade to a family pack? As a college student who has blown almost all of her savings on grad school applications (not to mention textbooks and tuition), I can't afford to buy a new copy of a single-user (or single-use) version. Should I just delete the programs off of one of my computers to be within the law? In the future, I shall read the entire license agreements before buying the software, that way I don't get confused by Apple's employees.

The fact that an Apple Store employee mislead you is a strong mitigating factor.

I don't know how long you have had the software, but I would call Apple and tell them that you just found out that the license you bought is for single computer. That you would have purchased the "Family Pack" had you not been told by an Apple Store employee that you did not need to do so. I would ask them to let you pay the difference and get a "Family Pack" license.

If they tell you that it's okay and that you don't need to worry about, ask for that in writing. Then you are all set.

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[diazj3]

The fact that an Apple Store employee mislead you is a strong mitigating factor.

I don't know how long you have had the software, but I would call Apple and tell them that you just found out that the license you bought is for single computer. That you would have purchased the "Family Pack" had you not been told by an Apple Store employee that you did not need to do so. I would ask them to let you pay the difference and get a "Family Pack" license.

If they tell you that it's okay and that you don't need to worry about, ask for that in writing. Then you are all set.

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I'm in the same situation... called Apple several times and asked... and also asked twice if they could give me their response in writing, but they wouldn't do that... every time they kept telling me "not to worry, no problem". The last conversation, I used skype and recorded it, so now I don't worry at all. Nevertheless, later this year, when Snow Leopard comes out, I'll be getting the "box set family pack" to upgrade two macs' OS, iLife and iWork... that'll save me some $ and keeps me in the clear regarding the EULA. But meanwhile I just don't worry anymore about it: and I seriously doubt Apple does either.

 

[johnsy]

Also I should add that you might end up with more than one copy of OS. For example I have a mirror of my desktop on external HD. So technically I can boot both (not simultaneously of course), using one computer.

speaking about Microsoft... Well I tried to do just that- use my legally bought XP on desktop and laptop and it is an activation nightmare. At the end I ended up using xp only on a laptop. I love apple that they didn't put all this activation hassle. It is easier to backup, no stability issues and no nags.

 

[johnsy]

Also how the hell apple knows did you purchased single or family pack, installed legit or bittorented OSX? For these who purchased family packs- do they look somehow different? Are disks somehow different? Behaves different when installed?

Also keep in mind that Apple sells their consumer grade software for small profit(not that I can confirm that) but I believe their professional software is cash cow and also requires activation and serial number. We don't see final cut pro copies on internet, do we?

 

[ayeying]

I buy single because I only have 1 system that I update. Even though my dad has a mac also, updating the entire OS just causes trouble because he'll start bugging me every minute asking why the desktop looks different. So therefore, as long as his system works for movies/videos/surfing online, i just leave it alone.

 

[TJRiver]

When one of you do-it-yourself internet lawyers gets dragged into court for breaching the above-referenced software license agreements (pick one, any one), please, please, please let me know. I would LOVE to see how these rationalizations play out in front of a judge.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Also how the hell apple knows did you purchased single or family pack, installed legit or bittorented OSX? For these who purchased family packs- do they look somehow different? Are disks somehow different? Behaves different when installed?

They don't know. The box looks different on family packs, and that's it. (And even then, the only difference is on the STICKERS on the box.) The discs are 100% identical.

Also keep in mind that Apple sells their consumer grade software for small profit(not that I can confirm that) but I believe their professional software is cash cow and also requires activation and serial number. We don't see final cut pro copies on internet, do we?

Go to your favorite "piratey" website, and search for Final Cut Pro. Plenty of copies. Yes, they make a lot of money off their pro apps, but they also make money off iLife upgrades and iWork. (iWork used to require a serial number, it doesn't any more.)

 

[johnsy]

all of these final cut pro copies are bogus. I would like to download some kinda (LEGAL, no viruses or trojans) trial, so I can learn something or see if I really need it (i don't i know). imovie is a child's game, it is very low tech (windows low tech options are even worse). How about final cut express how does that differ from final cut pro?

 

[gusious]

Single pack for my only MBP.