[POLL] Will Airplay on Smart TVs Kill the Apple TV?

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Fact of the matter is, Apple rarely keeps a low-selling product around. If licensing iTunes & Airplay to 3rd parties cause ATV sales to fall below a certain point, then you can count on Apple dropping the ATV and telling people to use third party printers wi-fi routers display monitors TV apps.

Which is why I argue that the Apple TV needs a re-boot as a serious gaming console contender if it is to garner large-scale interest by home consumers.

The Apple TV 4K is a great selling. It's figures are up every year. It's here to stay NO OTHER option will give such a great iTunes experience. Have you seen Smart TVs in reality? They are slow, lack updates, apps don't work. How will a TV cope with streaming a high quality iTunes 4K Dolby Vision Atmos file at 20-25GB (which is what they've been over Christmas).
Streaming a 4K DV film without buffering and other side effects for a solid 2 hours takes very very decent components. I do not believe that these TVs offer that. They are built to a price using cheaper components and stuffed onto the market place whilst the companies such as LG/Samsung plan next years range and forget about the current range whilst doing so.

If anything, Apple cares about what it realises, these TV companies really do not. I see them as the McDonalds of the industry simply pushing boxes. I have very very little interest in their 'products'.
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This is not quite true. Airplay 2 and HomeKit is on 2019 models only for LG and Sony I believe. Samsung is adding support to 2018 and 2019. Vizio is adding Airplay 2 and HomeKit to all SmartCast model TV’s in their lineup which go back to 2016.

And how well do you think a 2016 cheap TV will cope with a HD 60fps Airplay file??? The experience is going to truly suck! And Apple will get the blame.
It reminds me of when BANG&OLUFSEN launched products with Airplay and forums were constantly full of people complaining about audio dropouts every few seconds. I know, my A8 was terrible with Airplay audio whereas the Apple TV 3 at the time was flawless and that was with HD 1080p video!

 

[gnomeisland]

I love the Apple TV. Here's my worry: Apple got out of the wi-fi (Airport) biz because cable companies now include wi-fi with their modems. It stands to reason that Apple could similarly discontinue the Apple TV once all TVs on the market include "free" Airplay support.

I think Apple's wi-fi exit is a good example of why they should stick it out with "console" games on the Apple TV. Right now, expensive routers are making a come back. Sure, they usually mesh models and Apple doesn't have modern mesh networking but if it had kept looking at where that puck is going it could have owned the high-end router market. If every Apple TV and HomePod were capable of being a companion node for a central mesh router that would have increased their value tremendously while only increasing their cost marginally. I suspect privacy is also going to be a growing concern among people buying high-end routers and Apple is positioning itself as the trusted brand for digital privacy.

Likewise, I'm not a gamer (console or otherwise) and I agree that the Apple TV is languishing because Apple is getting scared off the market prematurely. I love shows/movies and I'm actually excited (if befuddled) by Apple's $1B investment in content, but why not take the same approach to iOS exclusive games? Bundle a controller or create a new (larger) remote that works better as a game controller.

On the hardware side, Apple is in a unique and potentially powerful position. Putting an A10X in the Apple TV (especially when that processor was the fastest ARM around) was bold. Now, put a version of the A12X that skews even more heavily in favor of graphics and you've got a competitive console platform hardware. And, unlike other console makers, Apple controls all the IP and chips, so updates can come faster, cheaper, and with full backward compatibly. Add to that the ability to handoff your games to an iPad or iPhone when you leave the living room and you've got a powerful ecosystem none of the established players can really compete with.

The (sad for me, as a non-gamer) truth is that video games are eclipsing linear/passive media like movies/shows. If Apple (rightly) thinks content will drive services & hardware sales they should be seeding money/partnering with game devs if not outright developing console exclusives themselves.

EDIT: clarity/grammar

 

[Michelasso]

I don’t think this is true. AFAIK AirPlay really beams the actual media stream over the network.
AirTunes was slightly different - audio was converted to ALAC before sending out.
But I do not believe that reference to media source is handed over to renderer.

Are you really sure? I know for a fact Google cast sends the URL (I have even seen it failing, reporting a lack of access from app to an SMB URL), I'd be surprised Airplay mirrors the content. Also because I tested Airplay from my Mac and when it Airplays the video in the Mac goes black with the Airplay icon. Actually it does the same with my iPhone.

If that were the case, you should be able to switch off your sending iPhone and continue watching on aTV.

Not really. The receiver most likely polls the sender (which now acts as a remote control) and when the connection is lost it interrupts the streaming. I have tried now to put the iPhone in airplane mode while airplaying. The ATV kept playing a video for some seconds. I know, that may mean nothing because the ATV may have buffered the content.

Actually, there is a simple test anyone can do. Airplay an YouTube video from a Mac and check the network activity. If the Mac was receiving the video and transferring it to the ATV, the upload (and download!) traffic would be noticeable. While I have got a peak of 75KB/s in upload and then nearly nothing. The values on the bottom are the instant values when the video was playing. The 2,5MB/s peak in download is when I first started the video w/o airplaying.

 

[priitv8]

Are you really sure? I know for a fact Google cast sends the URL (I have even seen it failing, reporting a lack of access from app to an SMB URL), I'd be surprised Airplay mirrors the content. Also because I tested Airplay from my Mac and when it Airplays the video in the Mac goes black with the Airplay icon. Actually it does the same with my iPhone.

You are right. Seems that things have changed.
Another easy way is to open developer view in the browser (like Inspect Element in Safari) and observe the traffic in Network section.
Once you switch browser player to AirPlay, the downloading of media clips stops. A m3u8 playlist is downloaded once and that's it. Then only short hartbeats are exchanged between browser and youtube.com
Seems that browser hands this HLS playlist to appleTV for playback.

 

[eveluvsrainbows]

Fact of the matter is, Apple rarely keeps a low-selling product around. If licensing iTunes & Airplay to 3rd parties cause ATV sales to fall below a certain point, then you can count on Apple dropping the ATV and telling people to use third party printers wi-fi routers display monitors TV apps.

Which is why I argue that the Apple TV needs a re-boot as a serious gaming console contender if it is to garner large-scale interest by home consumers.

Apple TV isn't "low selling", and just because certain TVs are getting AirPlay 2 support, that doesn't really mean anything. There's a high chance that the iTunes experience on Samsung TVs will be severely gimped compared to Apple TV due to the lower end processors typically found in TVs.

 

[JeffPerrin]

There's a high chance that the iTunes experience on Samsung TVs will be severely gimped compared to Apple TV due to the lower end processors typically found in TVs.

Yes! However, with the current trend for streaming apps like YouTube, Netflix and the like, is to achieve a common, familiar interface across all platforms. I just don't seem them introducing any Apple TV-specific features that would take advantage of the ATV's beefier hardware. In short time, TV chips will be plenty beefy to support streaming apps just fine (if current models don't already).

The real hope is that Apple will attract new customers because of improvements and exciting new features unique to the Apple TV... not because it's "less suckier than Samsung."

 

[9081094]

Since I’ve bought the LG OLED C8 with webos 4.0 I couldn’t find a reason to use my Apple TV. It does everything my Apple TV does and it’s even more convenient to use. I got rid of my Apple TV and I think there are no compelling reasons to buy one if you buy a modern TV. in my opinion the Apple TV got overhauled and since it’s stagnant development at what Apple called a hobby, I don’t see a bright future ahead.

 

[priitv8]

... I think there are no compelling reasons to buy one if you buy a modern TV. in my opinion the Apple TV got overhauled and since it’s stagnant development at what Apple called a hobby, I don’t see a bright future ahead.

Let us return to this discussion in 2021 and see, how far LG webOS is then and if you can have it on your tv.

 

[9081094]

Let us return to this discussion in 2021 and see, how far LG webOS is then and if you can have it on your tv.

I hope we can still remember the Apple TV 2021. I would be surprised if they would be still for sale.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I hope we can still remember the Apple TV 2021. I would be surprised if they would be still for sale.

I have both - Apple TV and LG WebOS and I simply would never trust LG WebOS in terms of security. I'd never in a million years sign into my accounts from it. With so much hacking, people are utterly crazy to trust Smart TV platforms. Imagine signing into your iTunes account on a crappy Samsung TV platform - everything could get exposed in your Apple I.D. account not just iTunes purchase but contacts, photos - everything that's on your iPhone, Mac, iPad.

Let's be honest, LG exists for one reason only. To sell and to make money. That's it. Nothing else. They make good OLED TVs with a rather short shelf life though. Not convinced that today's TVs will still be working in 5 years time.

No thanks - i'd rather stick with the most polished platform and streamer out there that has the best security, has monthly OS updates, comes from the best computer & software company in the world - that's tvOS and the Apple TV.

It's simply the most polished product out there. If you're happy to sign into your apps with your passwords etc on a Smart TV, then go ahead. For me, i'll stick with Apple and Apple only.

 

[zephonic]

Airplay does not turn any TV into an Apple TV. It simply means you can stream audio/video from your devices to the TV.
For me, my 3rd-gen Apple TV is primarily a Netflix/Hulu/Amazon/Youtube box. Our living room TV has those services built in, but I simply prefer Apple’s UI. Streaming from devices is a secondary benefit, useful but not its main purpose.

Adding Airplay to other TV’s doesn’t change their “usually terrible” UI’s. It’s great that people without Apple TV’s will be able to stream from their devices, but it is no replacement, IMHO.

 

[eveluvsrainbows]

Since I’ve bought the LG OLED C8 with webos 4.0 I couldn’t find a reason to use my Apple TV. It does everything my Apple TV does and it’s even more convenient to use. I got rid of my Apple TV and I think there are no compelling reasons to buy one if you buy a modern TV. in my opinion the Apple TV got overhauled and since it’s stagnant development at what Apple called a hobby, I don’t see a bright future ahead.

webOS’s apps suck. They’re slow and are horribly integrated. I have a modern TV and I still got an Apple TV because smart platforms built into TVs are pretty sub-par imo. Nothing compares to the fluidity and ease of use of Apple’s operating systems.

 

[9081094]

webOS’s apps suck. They’re slow and are horribly integrated. I have a modern TV and I still got an Apple TV because smart platforms built into TVs are pretty sub-par imo. Nothing compares to the fluidity and ease of use of Apple’s operating systems.

Well, I had both and I found webos on my LG more capable then Apple TV. So I got rid of the AppleTV.

 

[eveluvsrainbows]

Well, I had both and I found webos on my LG more capable then Apple TV. So I got rid of the AppleTV.

More capable? In what ways? webOS doesn’t have NEARLY as many apps as Apple TV.

 

[JeffPerrin]

Since I’ve bought the LG OLED C8 with webos 4.0 I couldn’t find a reason to use my Apple TV. It does everything my Apple TV does and it’s even more convenient to use. I got rid of my Apple TV and I think there are no compelling reasons to buy one if you buy a modern TV.

A lot of folks here won't be happy to read this. Unfortunately, this will soon be reality unless Apple can up it's game in the living room.
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webOS’s apps suck. They’re slow and are horribly integrated.

Maybe you didn't realize it, but YouTube and Prime on the Apple TV are web apps. (And yes, they suck on Apple TV just as well as on a smart TV!)

 

[Michelasso]

Maybe you didn't realize it, but YouTube and Prime on the Apple TV are web apps. (And yes, they suck on Apple TV just as well as on a smart TV!)

YouTube is usually better on Smart TV(s), because unlike on the ATV 4K it can reproduce 4K HDR videos (even on Bravia, but then on HDR it messes up the color space, it uses BT.709 instead of automatically selecting BT.2020), but Prime Video on ATV is one of the best, if not the best, media player for Prime Video out there.

It never stutters (unlike on my Bravia and Fire TV Stick), it goes fast to 1080p or 4K (usually immediately) and there is the video scrubbing (select a position in the video swiping the touchpad). With most other Prime Video apps, the one for Fire TV stick included, to move back/forward in a video is a pain in the neck.

Then I'd love to hear about an app equivalent (as quality) to Infuse on any Smart TV. And no, Plex doesn't count, the audio sucks and also it often fails with 4K HDR videos.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

OK, say a family invests in a TV and keeps it 8 years, imagine what that TVs smart platform will be like in 5 years time from now. Will it support AV1? Will it support any new advances in technology? Of course not.
7 years ago, we had the Apple TV 2. If you keep a TV 7 or 8 years, that would be the same as using Apple TV 2 in 2019. Needless to say, apps won't be supported and the whole experience will not be of a standard required in 2019 - no 4K , no Atmos, no auto frame rate, no 60 fps, no Dolby Vision etc.

The beauty of the Apple TV is that you can buy for a tiny price the latest model every 2 years or so when the new one is launched.

If anything, the Apple TV will continue to grow and Smart TVs will fall. tvOS based on iOS is loved by the majority of app developers.

 

[priitv8]

I hope we can still remember the Apple TV 2021. I would be surprised if they would be still for sale.

That may well be, but because nature does not like void, something will take its place.
I just want to make my point, that a TV screen usually has a longer useful life than the smart computer inside it. Hence I would stick to dumb screen and whatever maintainable and replaceable external "smarts" feeding it.
With a cost ratio of 1/20 (my screen to my aTV 4K) I do not see any problem with replacing the aTV as soon as it becomes obsolete. My screen will serve me at least 5-10 years.

 

[B.A.T]

"Hence I would stick to dumb screen and whatever maintainable and replaceable external "smarts" feeding it."

I'm of the same opinion for my use but it is impossible to buy a "dumb" screen anymore. Nothing wrong with buying a smart tv and using a separate streaming box.

 

[2010mini]

For tech nerds maybe. But the general tv watching demographic does not like to use 2 devices to watch content. They want a remote, a tv and whatever box to deliver content.

 

[priitv8]

For tech nerds maybe. But the general tv watching demographic does not like to use 2 devices to watch content. They want a remote, a tv and whatever box to deliver content.

I am pretty sure that also general tv viewer (NB! We are not talking about linear OTA television here!) would like to watch new or updated streaming services.
Ever changing YouTube formats and protocols are a good example for this.
New services (like Netflix interactive), new formats (HDR, object audio, 8K are already on the table or horizon and also still developing) make you want to stay up to date on both CPU/GPU and software fronts.
I still see that TV’s built-in motherboard is a laggard in this respect and also not reasonable way to waste resources.
PS I still have just 1 remote to get all this done with not only aTV but the whole AV rack.