Pontiac G8... DAMN!

[quagmire]

Nice looking car. Too bad it's a Pontiac.

Jeez image snob much? You may never buy the G8, but give credit where credit is due. That is GM brought the Commodore over and it is a wonderful vehicle. For $29K( fully loaded is $32K) you get a 367 HP V8. It's fuel economy is very competitive to other RWD V8 sedans( the GS460 tops it in city at 17 MPG, but is tied with it at 24 MPG HWY).

We know America can still make a car. Look at the CTS and Malibu/Aura.

 

[Abstract]

Let's say they drive as I do, about 15K miles/year. Let's also say they average 20mpg in the G8. That means that if gas prices end up at $6/gallon, they'll be paying roughly another $120/month in gas over what they pay now.

Now that's enough money to kind of make me shake my head, but it's not nearly enough to influence my purchasing decisions.

So an additional $120 per month on top of what you're already paying now wouldn't influence your purchasing decisions?

If you invested $120 each month for 10 years, and earned 9% interest, on average, over the 5 year term, you'd have an extra $23 559.81 in your bank, while investing only $14 520. That's more than $9000 in interest.

I guess you can afford it while I can't. However, if you're buying a $35,000 car, it doesn't make you rich, and I think an additional $23 560 in the bank would help.

And for curiosity sake, if you were to do this for 30 years, you'd have an additional $223000 on top of the rest of your savings, while having only invested a total of $43,200 over that span.

Especially since I'm making a conscious choice to buy a performance car to begin with. I mean really, I'll blow that in booze on a Friday night with my buddies. My cable bill is almost twice that.

So we can talk environment all day long, but this financial business just doesn't seem to make sense to me when it comes to people making these kinds of purchases.

Well it certainly does, but usually after they realize how much more it's costing them, hence the low resale value of these big cars today, or at least in Australia. It also explains why so many more big cars are being sold in the used car market today --- people are switching.

It also means people are also paying attention.

Holden Commodores now lose over 30% of their value after 1 year, and half their value is gone after 3 years. That's abysmal......worst in the industry in Australia. I can't think of another $40,000 car that's only worth $20000 after 3 years. Actually, Holden had to start discounting them to $37,000 just to sell them in quantity, and this was only in their first year of release. It didn't sell. They lowered it to $34,000. It started to sell. Now the starting price is even lower than that, and it has only been around 3 years since its release. The new model cost Holden almost ALL its resources to produce, and they've admitted that this current market of high petrol prices isn't the one they faced when they first began working on a new Commodore in the early 2000s. The most popular car in Australia is replaced with a brand new, improved model....... and it wasn't selling.

That, plus rising petrol costs, and you're not just losing money on the petrol. You're losing money on the rapid depreciation as well. Add that to what I calculated above, plus the interest, and the difference between that and the purchase of more fuel efficient cars could be $400,000 over 30 years. How does that not make a difference? If it doesn't make a difference to you, then you're just not that good with money.

 

[Prof.]

Jeez image snob much?

No. I would have no problem buying a 29 - 32 thousand dollar car but If was going to spend that money, I would buy a Honda or a Toyota. IMO they are better built and last longer than a Pontiac.

 

[dmr727]

If you invested $120 each month for 10 years, and earned 9% interest, on average, over the 5 year term, you'd have an extra $23 559.81 in your bank, while investing only $14 520. That's more than $9000 in interest.

I guess you can afford it while I can't. However, if you're buying a $35,000 car, it doesn't make you rich, and I think an additional $23 560 in the bank would help.
...
If it doesn't make a difference to you, then you're just not that good with money.

I hear what you're saying. Believe me, I've run numbers like this from time to time and it's always an eye opener. I'm not a wealthy man by any means, so it makes me cringe!

However I don't see it as an issue of affording it - it's an issue of what you choose to spend versus what you choose to invest. Investing will always be the smarter strategy, and I'm never going to be able to defend a single penny of what I spend beyond the bare minimum of what I need to survive.

I can play this game all day long with my lifestyle. I don't *need* high speed internet, a gazillion movie channels, HD, DVR, and digital telephone service. By putting up some rabbit ears and going to a basic phone line (to use for dialup) I can save $200/month right there. I'm sure I spend about $400/month more than I need on going out to restaurants, drinking with friends, and so on. Heck, I passed up a two day contract job last week just so I could spend more time with my wife (she's an airline pilot, so between her job and mine quality time is essential) - that job would have paid for my gas for the next year. All this and we haven't even begun to look at my hobbies!

Point is, if I did the math on all this exterraneous spending, it'd add up to a ridiculous sum down the line. It's a balancing act to be sure, but I'm not trying to die with the most money in the bank. I just want to invest enough to live well once I retire, have a good amount of savings in case something happens to my job (or my wife's), and from there enjoy what I've got while I'm still in a position to enjoy it.

To me, the worst thing imaginable is sitting in my death bed and thinking about all the missed opportunities I had to take vacations with my wife, spend time with friends, and so on. Maybe I wanted to drive a performance car at one point. I dunno, but I *do* know that eight figures in a bank account won't do a damn thing to erase that regret.

 

[ryannel2003]

No. I would have no problem buying a 29 - 32 thousand dollar car but If was going to spend that money, I would buy a Honda or a Toyota. IMO they are better built and last longer than a Pontiac.

I drive a 2000 Toyota Camry, and love it to death. However, the latest survey's have shown Honda and Toyota's quality continuing to slip, while GM and Ford are catching up. Taking a look at the Toyota forums, many Camry's are suffering from transmission issues, interiors falling apart, and crooked body panels. Toyota is not the same company they were 15 years ago, where the #1 priority was quality and not sales. It's unfortunate, because I love my Toyota to death.

While I usually hate Pontiac products, a quick look inside this one will tell you its no G6 or Grand Prix. The interior is assembled with very nicely grained plastics and high quality leather seating. Only time will tell how long it will hold up, but I'm sure they'll be good cars.

As for lasting longer, GM has some of the best powertrains in the business (3800 Series II V6, Northstar V8, and the best small block V8's around). The G8's base model V6 engine has been lifted from the latest CTS (also used in 1st Gen starting in 2004), and that engine has proved extremely reliable so far. The V8 is a Gen IV 6.0L V8 that is based off the engines used in the current Chevrolet Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban products and those engines have been reliable as well. I've seen many of GM V8's with 220k or more on the clock, and they were still running great.

Oh and btw, fuel is not as much of a concern here as it would be in regular V8. It has Active Fuel Management, and it works extremely well. Plus, if I had the money for this car I wouldn't give a damn about how much it costs to fill up.

 

[Nabooly]

Looks cool but it looks like a BMW knockoff... I wish carmakers would be more original.

Yeah it looks like a wanna-be BMW

 

[NightFlight]

No. I would have no problem buying a 29 - 32 thousand dollar car but If was going to spend that money, I would buy a Honda or a Toyota. IMO they are better built and last longer than a Pontiac.

x2 to that.

It is going to be a long time until I buy a vehicle from an American manufacturer unless Ford decides to bring over some of their European models (Focus, Mondeo, Transit, etc.). I am not a snob in the least but I still would never consider any GM product.

I drive a 2000 Toyota Camry, and love it to death. However, the latest survey's have shown Honda and Toyota's quality continuing to slip, while GM and Ford are catching up. Taking a look at the Toyota forums, many Camry's are suffering from transmission issues, interiors falling apart, and crooked body panels. Toyota is not the same company they were 15 years ago, where the #1 priority was quality and not sales. It's unfortunate, because I love my Toyota to death.
While I usually hate Pontiac products, a quick look inside this one will tell you its no G6 or Grand Prix. The interior is assembled with very nicely grained plastics and high quality leather seating. Only time will tell how long it will hold up, but I'm sure they'll be good cars.
As for lasting longer, GM has some of the best powertrains in the business (3800 Series II V6, Northstar V8, and the best small block V8's around). The G8's base model V6 engine has been lifted from the latest CTS (also used in 1st Gen starting in 2004), and that engine has proved extremely reliable so far. The V8 is a Gen IV 6.0L V8 that is based off the engines used in the current Chevrolet Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban products and those engines have been reliable as well. I've seen many of GM V8's with 220k or more on the clock, and they were still running great.

All you have to do is refer Consumer Reports who logs reliability data. Compare Honda and Toyota to Ford and GM. You will see why it still does not make sense to purchase a GM or a Ford.

I do not think Hondas quality is slipping at all. Toyotas might be, you hear a lot more of the journalists from the major car magazines complaining about cheap plastics and poor fit and finish but not about Honda. I do think Toyota is losing some ground.

The G6 and Grand Prix are not quality vehicles, sorry. They are destined to be fleet queens and their interior quality is abysmal. I think the leather they use in the Grand Prix is awful and it is very obvious where they use vinyl instead of leather on the seats, it is like they did not even try to match the grain. I had a Grand Prix GXP while on business in Colorado last month and I couldn’t stand it. My passengers in the rear were complaining about lack of leg room (it is a large vehicle) and the rear windows were like gun slots. The only high point that I found about the GXP was the acceleration and the stereo.

The 3800 V6 is very durable but one of the coarsest engines on the market, I do agree with the Northstar though... That is a very nice engine.

 

[UWSpindoctor]

Is the brake pedal still 6 inches higher than the gas pedal like the G6?

 

[ryannel2003]

x2 to that.

It is going to be a long time until I buy a vehicle from an American manufacturer unless Ford decides to bring over some of their European models (Focus, Mondeo, Transit, etc.). I am not a snob in the least but I still would never consider any GM product.


All you have to do is refer Consumer Reports who logs reliability data. Compare Honda and Toyota to Ford and GM. You will see why it still does not make sense to purchase a GM or a Ford.

I do not think Hondas quality is slipping at all. Toyotas might be, you hear a lot more of the journalists from the major car magazines complaining about cheap plastics and poor fit and finish but not about Honda. I do think Toyota is losing some ground.

The G6 and Grand Prix are not quality vehicles, sorry. They are destined to be fleet queens and their interior quality is abysmal. I think the leather they use in the Grand Prix is awful and it is very obvious where they use vinyl instead of leather on the seats, it is like they did not even try to match the grain. I had a Grand Prix GXP while on business in Colorado last month and I couldn’t stand it. My passengers in the rear were complaining about lack of leg room (it is a large vehicle) and the rear windows were like gun slots. The only high point that I found about the GXP was the acceleration and the stereo.

The 3800 V6 is very durable but one of the coarsest engines on the market, I do agree with the Northstar though... That is a very nice engine.

I agree on the G6 and Grand Prix... both really terrible vehicles. Luckily Pontiac is re-doing the G6 for '09 to help spice it up a little bit. For such a large vehicle, the Grand Prix has a horrible back seat due to the seat so low to the floor and no toe room underneath the front seat.

As for Honda and Toyota, from what I've been able to tell the quality is not the same as it was 10-15 years ago. The new Honda's have terribly cheap looking interiors, and the Toyota's aren't better. The soft touch plastic is being replaced with hard crappy looking stuff that wouldn't look fit in a Chevy Aveo. Honda is still better off than Toyota because they aren't worried about their market share, but the materials in a '92 Accord look better than the ones in an '02 or '06 Accord.

GM still has a ton of work to do. They need to trim the fat off their product line-up and they'll be better off. Having 4 versions of the GMC Acadia is unecessary, and it killed them in the '80s (you could get a Oldsmobile for $8000 cheaper then the same Cadillac Seville).

Is the brake pedal still 6 inches higher than the gas pedal like the G6?

I've always wondered why the G6 felt so uncomfortable compared to other cars...

But from what I can tell, no. Mainly because the G8 is a much better engineered car than the G6 ever thought of being.

 

[quagmire]

x2 to that.

All you have to do is refer Consumer Reports who logs reliability data. Compare Honda and Toyota to Ford and GM. You will see why it still does not make sense to purchase a GM or a Ford.

I do not think Hondas quality is slipping at all. Toyotas might be, you hear a lot more of the journalists from the major car magazines complaining about cheap plastics and poor fit and finish but not about Honda. I do think Toyota is losing some ground.

The G6 and Grand Prix are not quality vehicles, sorry. They are destined to be fleet queens and their interior quality is abysmal. I think the leather they use in the Grand Prix is awful and it is very obvious where they use vinyl instead of leather on the seats, it is like they did not even try to match the grain. I had a Grand Prix GXP while on business in Colorado last month and I couldn’t stand it. My passengers in the rear were complaining about lack of leg room (it is a large vehicle) and the rear windows were like gun slots. The only high point that I found about the GXP was the acceleration and the stereo.

The 3800 V6 is very durable but one of the coarsest engines on the market, I do agree with the Northstar though... That is a very nice engine.

Look at JD Power. Buick is tied for 1st with Lexus. CR lost credibility with me as they said reliability for Toyota vehicles were great even if the vehicles were brand new( cough Tundra and Camry). At least they admitted their mistake, but if you're trying to be impartial and unbiased don't say anything on reliability even if the brand has the reputation for it until the hard data is in. Honda doesn't seem to be slipping because they're dismissing the problems( cough 3rd gear popping out cough). I have never had any major problems with my GM vehicles. I doubt it is just luck......

Granted, like ryannel said, GM still has a lot of work to do. But, with vehicles like the Malibu, CTS, Aura, Astra, etc you can at least begin to look at GM vehicles again with a serious eye.

 

[Chundles]

Heh - all these people getting excited about a Commodore,

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Agreed, these are sick cars. Can't wait to drive one for myself.

 

[2nyRiggz]

Indeed.....thats a beautiful car. The broad body of pontiac cars take up a full lane...can't overtake them....I love em



Bless