Popular Design App 'Sketch' Leaves Mac App Store Due to Poor Customer Experience

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I think that a good 60-80% of their customer base would not have even known Sketch existing until it was featured on the App store. If they feel like now that Apple has done enough marketing for them that they can survive without it fine. But they seem to forget they'd be in the complete backwater of unknown software without the App store.

Guess they don't think marketing and distribution storage/bandwidth costs 30% of sales. Maybe not but I'm guessing it's close.

What marketing has Apple done? You mean hiding most Apps beneath several layers of obscure searches and lower echelons of Apps? Only the "TOP" Apps ever get any placement and if you don't know what to search for, you probably won't find it! The iOS Store has gotten worse as well. You used to be able to browse huge lists of Apps (text lists with one on each line). Now they show one app on the screen and you have to swipe to see the next one. HOW THE FRACK are you supposed to browse any amount of Apps to look through with THAT system? Let's face, Apple has gone to hell lately. They've redone everything just to give it a facelift, but sadly the changes are more than skin deep and they've managed to make everything HORRIBLE to use in the process (not just looking bad with that "flat" system of theirs).

I really don't know how Apple keeps getting high consumer ratings given all the bad moves they've made over the past few years. I can only imagine that Windows 8.x had a lot to do with it (even worse complaints). With Windows 10 not sucking quite so much (other than being spyware) and Microsoft putting an actual effort into making their own high-end hardware (something 3rd parties never wanted to do since it was a race to the bottom), I think Apple isn't going to keep reaping Mac sales in that kind of an environment. They need to get back to basics and restore basic FUNCTIONALITY first and worry about new features and graphics makeovers later.

 

[saldin]

So examples from that article are:
1) global keystroke logging
2) Game Center exclusivity
3) code injection of other apps (listed as audio or screen capture capabilities)
4) plugins (I assume binary form, which would break code-signing protections baring a new framework on top)
5) whole disk scanning

Most of those are extremely problematic feature sets from a security standpoint. And while useful functionality can be made on top of them, they should give users pause. I like that those sorts of things are blocked, and they should be by default for most apps.

And I still don't see how those limitations are either unreasonable or should be hitting their app.

You're being willfully obtuse. If you've used a file compression utility acquired from the MAS, you know that it will ask for permission every time you double click an archive file in a directory it doesn't have permission to access, and that workflow break doesn't come from the developer. Parallels Desktop and VMware Fusion integrate deeply with the OS to allow the user to drag and drop files in and out of VMs, copy and paste files and rich text to and from Mac and Windows. You won't find Paragon's NTFS for Mac or Shirt Pocket's SuperDuper there either. That kind of synergy cannot be achieved while sandboxed. Developers want to push the state of the art and they can't if said app has to be sold on the MAS. The only thing to be found there are simple apps and games, it's a ghost town, and it will be even worse if Apple doesn't start showering it with attention.

And it's not only sandboxing: App Bundles have existed in the iOS store for over a year, but that functionality is still not implemented in the MAS. That affects developers directly. Parallels ran a great bundle sale until yesterday that would be impossible to recreate on the MAS.

Same as TestFlight, the beta testing service. It was opened to iOS developers with great fanfare last year and it's not available to Mac developers. Or App Analytics.

If you're a developer, you know the MAS has been in a state of abandon for a long time. Developers have put up with it because it's convenient for the users: the store is built into the system and it's a one-stop-shop, buyers can use their existing Apple ID, pay with credit card already on file or gift card credits, redownload past purchases without hassle... but no more. They have asked for change, suggested change and waited for change, and Apple has done nothing. So they are now fed up, and that's why this is news.

 

[fltman]

(2) Review threads. There are a lot of impatient and bad-tempered reviews posted that I would love to argue against to help defend developers that make really good apps

Indeed, there are way to many 1 star comments written by customers who simply thought that they purchased something else because they didn't care to read the product description. "1-star This application is **** and does not do what I want."

Upgrades, the review process is random and inconsistent. Let me give you an example. I released an app in the MAS with a meny bar icon. No problem. Then I made small fix and sent it for review again and now it was denied. Why? The meny bar icon was not good enough in dark mode. So I did nothing and submitted it again, another two weeks passed and now it was all good. So it took four weeks for the update to go through. What if it would have been a critical update fixing a problem that could case harm to customer data?

So the review process is slow and inconsistent. The review threads can't be commented. It is hard to search the MAS for stuff that has not been downloaded a million times making it hard for newer and better products to make its way in the MAS.

Comparing the products in the MAS is also complicated and should be made much easier.

Then we have the funny thing that developers pay Apple $99 a year just to be able to write applications for the OS X platform and then another $99 for iOS applications and then Apple want the additional 30% on all sales, selling products outside the MAS is about 7-8%. I know quite a few developers who are looking at alternatives and based on my own experience the sale rate is about the same in the MAS as outside it.

 

[Eric5h5]

Then we have the funny thing that developers pay Apple $99 a year just to be able to write applications for the OS X platform and then another $99 for iOS applications.

No, it's $99/year for both OS X and iOS together (and watchOS).

--Eric

 

[fltman]

No, it's $99/year for both OS X and iOS together (and watchOS).

--Eric

Now it is (since june), last year it wasn't. So my last invoice contains two $99 posts, one for the Mac Developer Program and one for the iOS Developer Program. I'ms happy that they have changed it. Still, it sis kind of strange having to pay for being a developer. What would the platform be without developers?

 

[Eric5h5]

Some kind of barrier to entry keeps Apple from being completely inundated with trash apps.

--Eric

 

[macish]

the bad experience is Sketch itself. Its a shame that this buggy POS was even sold on the Appstore. Every single Update broke more stuff than they fixed. Basic function did not work properly for ages and 2.x where left hanging dry and had to open their pockets again to get bugfixes for something that never worked properly. Instead of wanting more money how about they should get their **** together and actually test their software instead if pushing more and more buggy features into it to allow them to earn more money instead of adressing tons of issues Sketch had and has.

One Week for an review of an update is more than ok. If you need an urgent hotfix you can expedite the process. the problem is that every single Update is a hotfix for the hotfix for the hotfix. They was never a really stable version you could use hassle free. There is always some crap and you ask yourself why you've spend any money at all on this pice of "professional" software.

Well its becomes pro once they ask money for it.. sadly it has nothing todo with actual quality and the software actually showed quite a promise but the devs themself are a huge letdown.

 

[I WAS the one]

ok. This is BS. They are going for a subscription base business and want complete control with the add ons and third party extensions. they are growing fast and designer around the world trust Sketch over Adobe Illustrator so, This is all a game.

 

[sudo1996]

Buying software from random websites through PayPal or, worse, credit card was always too sketchy for me to deal with. I'd be fine with the Mac App Store if it actually worked properly. Like, I don't see anything wrong with the concept, but the MAS app itself is borderline unusable due to bugs and unresponsiveness.

Thank goodness I found out that you can download the Xcode installer DMG from Apple's dev site; there were too many times when I needed to update Xcode but couldn't because the frickin' update button wasn't doing anything. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever gotten Xcode to update through the MAS on the first try. I don't get how the programmers screwed that up. And I'm sick of Apple forcing out OS X updates every year on a schedule instead of just fixing what needs fixing and releasing an update when it's time. I don't even consider Apple a source of reliable products anymore.

 

[fltman]

Some kind of barrier to entry keeps Apple from being completely inundated with trash apps.

--Eric

Do you seriously think so? Before the MAS I had not even heard of "fart apps". Now they are everywhere. The $99 barrier does not keep Apple from being inundated with trash apps, it just keeps poor people with great ideas away from developing.

 

[Eric5h5]

Do you seriously think so? Before the MAS I had not even heard of "fart apps". Now they are everywhere. The $99 barrier does not keep Apple from being inundated with trash apps, it just keeps poor people with great ideas away from developing.

Yes, I definitely think so. Note that I chose my words precisely: they are inundated with trash apps already, as you note; I said completely inundated. i.e., if you think it's bad now, you wouldn't want to see it without a little something to hold back the worst. Have a look at the Google store if you want to see evidence of what happens with lower barriers. Anyway, it doesn't stop anyone from developing, since you don't need to pay anything for that; the fee is just for having it on the store. If someone legitimately has a great idea and has developed that into an app, but not $100, they should easily be able to get that with Kickstarter or similar, so that's not really an argument.

--Eric

 

[Tech198]

as always developers can use the long and heavy handed process of Apple to get round why they think they shouldn't be part of it..

There are reason developers just don't wanna say.. Simple as that...

The reason i always fall back to, if BBEdit developer has issue with this before, why was it still on the store ? Its not like anything has changed in the part year.... rules still applied back then, they do now.. 70% to Apple, 30% to developers, no trial stuff allowed.

so what is the real reason for taking it off now and not 5 months ago, or sooner?

If Apple had introduced something else in the past month which made it more off-pushing, then i'd agree. but u can pull out old rules from a year ago, and call that a good reason to leave, for no valid reason that has been recent, since no change has been done to the App store...

From my perspective, unlike most people, i always look at the history and see what has changed that is making them leave, and it must have been a recent change in the past month or, to cause them to leave, otherwise its not a valid reason if people just bring up the same rules developers have had for a long time, but its only now we just decide to leave, and we'll use these old rules to say "its sounds better as a reason" to..

Gotta do better than that..sorry

Also just saying a detraction for something we have gotten used to, till news came around this is.. and suddenly it pops back into our heads as a 'bad' thing.. and the press goes crazy over something we all use.

 

[pkson]

Exactly! I was thrilled when a MAS certificate expired and I was unable to use the apps that I paid for. Because I couldn't get work done, I ended up going outside for a walk and getting some fresh air. I really appreciate companies that look out for their customers' well-being.

Ahhh... so THAT's what happened to my apps. Algoriddim's Djay and Yoink croaked out on me, and told me to delete and download again. In the meantime, Djay had changed to Djay "pro" and charging way more, and I don't care what Yoink is doing. *shakes fist*

 

[adhir]

What's the point in comparing an Apple Pencil with a pencil? Is it just because they have the same name?

Why don't you continue and also make a comparison between Facebook and a facebook; Apple with an apple; The Guardian with a guardian?

lol - thanks for the chuckle. it's a good point.

 

[SuperNova2150]

Let's stop dreaming that the "old" way is superior.

It is. You can install apps these app stores simply won't allow.

 

[SuperNova2150]

other than being spyware

It's not just Windows 10 . Will people ****ing stop thinking that way?

 

[/dev/toaster]

I can't blame them, Apple has really dropped the ball on this far too long. Sadly there is no indication of any fixes on the horizon.

Review times are too damn long. They should be 2 - 3 days at most. Apple is making a boat load of money on the appstore they can afford to hire more people. On top of that, developers are paying for the service.

No upgrade pricing is a strange one because I am surprised they still haven't done this. At the same it does help discourage developers from incrementing the version number as a money grab.

The sandboxes ... eh, it's a fact of life you need to deal with. The direction everything is heading, give it 10 years and EVERYTHING will be sandboxed.

Now for all those saying that just better test your apps and the review time isn't an issue .. lol ya right. No software development is perfect. You can have a year of automated and manual testing and things STILL slip through the cracks. I'd rather be able to give my users a quick fix instead of them waiting a week.

 

[Beavix]

The reason i always fall back to, if BBEdit developer has issue with this before, why was it still on the store ? Its not like anything has changed in the part year.... rules still applied back then, they do now.. 70% to Apple, 30% to developers, no trial stuff allowed.

so what is the real reason for taking it off now and not 5 months ago, or sooner?

You can hear the reasons straight from Rich Siegel (BBEdit's creator):

Everyone go watch that presentation, you'll understand why some developers have left the MAS.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It's not just Windows 10 . Will people ****ing stop thinking that way?

What other OPERATING SYSTEM KEY LOGS everything you do and sends it back to the parent company??? OS X most certainly does NOT do that. Linux doesn't do that. So what in the (to use your example) "****" are you talking about? Google's ChromeOS maybe? Yeah, I can believe Google would do it. But make no mistake here, this is an operating system, not just free online email or online apps we're talking about or even just for Cortana. You can disable all those things in Windows 10 and it STILL sends data back to Microsoft. This has been proven. When does Apple monitor everything you do on your Mac? Apple has been a huge sponsor of high encryption and privacy rights. Now I may not like everything Apple does and yes they do advertise on their phones, but monitoring a search engine is a far cry from monitoring everything I type, every game I play, every single movie I watch, etc. The worst part is you don't even really know what the hell Microsoft is monitoring and they aren't exactly forthcoming about it. All we know is they ARE monitoring you.

The observation that the so-called "Millennials" apparently have NO CLUE what the word privacy means and gladly tell everyone everything they do down the minute (on places like Facebook and Twitter) including taking a dump doesn't mean the rest of us want Microsoft knowing when we're playing Angry Birds or what we're typing in an email. It's none of their business. Now if you want to use Google Office (that DOES watch everything you type and do) go right ahead. When it comes to bite you in the rear in the future, don't come crying to me or anyone else.

 

[galrito]

lol - thanks for the chuckle. it's a good point.

Unfortunately, it wasn't the first case I saw of this comparison. Somewhere I read someone bashing Apple because they "shipped a $99 pencil." And I thought "What!? That's not a pencil, it's an electronic device."

It amazes me how some people don't have the critical thinking of separating what objects actually do with their marketing names. It amuses me to think if Apple called the Apple Pencil an Apple Airliner, they would come out and say "Wow! Apple just released a very cheap plane. Awesome, now I can use a plane without a license!" with, of course, a side-by-side image of an Apple Airliner and a Boeing 737.

 

[Ebenezum]

Now I may not like everything Apple does and yes they do advertise on their phones, but monitoring a search engine is a far cry from monitoring everything I type, every game I play, every single movie I watch, etc.

Unfortunately it's not limited to just search engine queries, by default Yosemite and El Capitan sends every search query to Apple regardless if you are only searching local files. I am not impressed with the way Apple decided to make this default when the user should be asked how Spotlight should work!

It's certainly possible to disable it in Spotlight preferences (and also in Safari preferences) but Apple has hidden this information in the the preferences and I'm very certain most people even know about it...

I wouldn't call this sponsoring privacy...

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Unfortunately it's not limited to just search engine queries, by default Yosemite and El Capitan sends every search query to Apple regardless if you are only searching local files. I am not impressed with the way Apple decided to make this default when the user should be asked how Spotlight should work!

It's certainly possible to disable it in Spotlight preferences (and also in Safari preferences) but Apple has hidden this information in the the preferences and I'm very certain most people even know about it...

I wouldn't call this sponsoring privacy...

In El Capitan, it's separated from the rest of the Spotlight search list and easily turned off. Diagnostic and usage information is also easily turned off. If an App crashes, it asks you if you'd like to send Apple a report or not and then the data is anonymous as well even if you do. Location services can be turned off as well if you're REALLY paranoid. That's it. That's the extent of Apple monitoring ANYTHING in OS X. Compare that Windows 10 where you can turn off everything allowed (and it's more than one thing) and Windows STILL sends data to Windows about your activities.

Apple has made it so even they cannot decrypt your conversations or data on an iPhone that isn't storing the information in the cloud. That has angered the FBI and NSA and as far as I'm concerned, that's a GOOD thing. When you give your freedoms away one by one, you soon find you don't have any left. Is fear and paranoia worth giving up the foundations of this country (freedom)? I think if people are so afraid of everything from guns to privacy, they should consider applying to live in the UK or some other country where you have NO privacy and NO rights what-so-ever to defend yourself or your family and you are monitored on video camera on every single street in London 24/7. You think someone is watching you? You are correct.

 

[Ebenezum]

In El Capitan, it's separated from the rest of the Spotlight search list and easily turned off. Diagnostic and usage information is also easily turned off. If an App crashes, it asks you if you'd like to send Apple a report or not and then the data is anonymous as well even if you do. Location services can be turned off as well if you're REALLY paranoid. That's it. That's the extent of Apple monitoring ANYTHING in OS X. Compare that Windows 10 where you can turn off everything allowed (and it's more than one thing) and Windows STILL sends data to Windows about your activities.

Apple has made it so even they cannot decrypt your conversations or data on an iPhone that isn't storing the information in the cloud. That has angered the FBI and NSA and as far as I'm concerned, that's a GOOD thing. When you give your freedoms away one by one, you soon find you don't have any left. Is fear and paranoia worth giving up the foundations of this country (freedom)? I think if people are so afraid of everything from guns to privacy, they should consider applying to live in the UK or some other country where you have NO privacy and NO rights what-so-ever to defend yourself or your family and you are monitored on video camera on every single street in London 24/7. You think someone is watching you? You are correct.

You seem to be missing my point. I am not arguing that Apple is as bad as Windows. My point is that regardless of how easy is it turn it of it shouldn't be default setting because most users won't know about it and likely very few bother to read Apples description of the feature. How is this beneficial to user?

In my opinion it would be much better to keep Spotlight only for local files and create a new "Sherlock II" for internet searches, it would be much simpler compared to "everything and the kitchen sink" approach Spotlight is taking these days...

As for fear and paranoia is not really relevant to this discussion...

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

You seem to be missing my point. I am not arguing that Apple is as bad as Windows. My point is that regardless of how easy is it turn it of it shouldn't be default setting because most users won't know about it and likely very few bother to read Apples description of the feature. How is this beneficial to user?

In my opinion it would be much better to keep Spotlight only for local files and create a new "Sherlock II" for internet searches, it would be much simpler compared to "everything and the kitchen sink" approach Spotlight is taking these days...

As for fear and paranoia is not really relevant to this discussion...

I see what you're saying, but I'm sure Apple would claim that turning it off limits Spotlight's new expanded capabilities (much like disabling Cortana for privacy reasons defeats its abilities to find custom searches for you). Of course, if you were to search anything on the Net, you would likely be giving someone that data in order to look it up (i.e. whether it's Google, Bing or Yahoo or whomever). There are ways to mask WHO you are and where you are located, but to look something up, data does need to be sent to someone.

Apple could make it more obvious, of course, but I doubt they want to imply they are somehow spying on you.

 

[MLMcMillion]

Based on your responses it's clear that you aren't in the software industry, have no idea how it works, and have no idea how ecommerce works as a whole.

If you believe that all software companies only sell their product on their own websites then you're delusional. You also don't understand the fees that Square and others charge. We'll just end it there. You have no grasp on the software industry.

I've been a professional software developer for over 10 years. Long enough to see the shift.

I didn't say that it didn't happen. Just that it's not the norm. If you think it's the norm you may be a bit out of touch.

I'm well aware of the fees that Square charges. I've built a multitude of sites that use it. 2.9% + $.30 is far less than 30%.