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Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'
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I'm the same. Too many compromises moving away from a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro to make it worthwhile for me.
For work, my current 2009 Mac Pro is grossly under powered and insufficient for Capture One Pro 11 and the files from the new high megapixel/high dynamic range sensors. Plus, when you upgrade to a new camera, you need to upgrade the software to read and edit the new files. So that forces you to eventually upgrade your hardware. I was perfectly fine working with 12MP Nikon D3 files. But now, with 42MP Sony a7rII and Nikon 36MP D810, 45MP D850 files -- and even the little 24MP Fuji X-T2 files -- they're simply bogging the beast down.
I put off upgrading my 2009 Mac Pro since 2013, when I didn't like design and features of the 2013 Mac Pro. That old 2009 workhorse has progressively gotten slower and slower as it's struggled with these new large image files.
2017 was the final straw in dealing with my dinosaur with these new camera files, as I know I've needed a new workstation since 2015. Considering a new 2013 8-core Mac Pro costs $4,000, it's not just a matter of it being insufficient or under-powered, it's that they're stoopily overpriced. Then Apple released the base iMac Pro with a price tag of $5,000. I'm sure there's a niche market that loves this computer, but it's not for me. ...There's also the inconvenient aspect - in that there is zero internal storage expansion, can't update/upgrade the GPU, and updating the 2013 Mac Pro CPU is royal PITA.
It literally feels like Apple pushed me into Windows 10 with a custom built machine to suite my needs. ...and I'm now OK with that...
If I didn't need a computer for "work", I'd be entirely happy with my 2013 MacBook Air for home use. ...and really, we are. I love that little computer and have zero intention to update it, as it fits our home needs perfectly.
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Then maybe it's time for Apple to be broken up and remove the iOS devices separated from the pre-existing hardware. i.e desktop's laptops, and mini. Before the current Apple board does any more damage to the line. Let them both live on their own if they moved to a less protectionistic and open the OS up to allow more third part it can be a competative product again. The world needs more that PC and Windows.
I wouldn't go that far. My 2010 iMac is still very powerful and gets everything done that I need it to. It will be eight years old in August. It came with OS 10.6 and now has 10.13 (where apparently it will stay). It has never once failed, and I have been able to do everything I want, short of play high-end PC games (the usual beef people have, but a small one).
The difference is that the hardware/software are no longer making leaps and bounds. Keeping a machine for eight years in the 1990s could have meant using a Mac II/Classic/SE/even a Plus in 1990 until the iMac came out in 1998. The difference between them is unbelievable in terms of design, computing power, capabilities, etc (although one could argue the System wasn't much different until OS X came out).
Since I bought this machine in 2010, I also purchased a MacBook Pro 2016 model as a work companion. You know what? They function exactly the same with no difference at all, except for bells and whistles (AirDrop, Continuity). The Mac, in some ways, is now like a purebred racehorse: there isn't too much left to evolve to in it's current state as it is at sort of a pinnacle.
I agree but people want great specs because it makes them feel good. Intel wouldn’t be selling Extreme Edition CPUs which are a terrible value if no one bought them. The smart money is buying used Xeons once servers dump them.
A big part of Apple’s problem is using the same hardware as their competitors. This wasn’t an issue in the PowerPC era. They should go to ARM as soon as it’s viable. No one attacks iOS devices based on performance. It’s only because of the walled garden limiting what you can do.
I don't think it's that bad. While the CPUs are a bit older, the real-world difference between two consecutive generations of Intel CPUs are almost negligible. You actually need to go back three or more generations to actually see a meaningful gain (in the sense of "worth spending 3k").
AFAIK, Apple does almost everything themselves. They don't use off-the-shelf chipsets, coolers, cases/enclosures - you name it.
That makes their hardware truly unique - but it comes at a cost.
All these components need to be designed, developed, qualified, tested, built, assembled, QAed.
This, I assume, though mostly done by large OEMs these days, is costly. Both in time and in money (for equipment and tooling - and man-hours of course).
Because Apple wants to get most out of these investments, it draws out the refreshment-cycles.
Also, Intel wasn't that good at delivering CPU and GPU updates in a timely manner in recent history, either.
Even more so, as Apple prefers to use higher-ends CPUs and GPUs that Intel often draws-out shipping even further.
So, they make the best out of it and only release hardware when it's ready.
Maybe the keyboard fiasco might have led to some delays, too. At least this refreshment cycle.
If Dell ships a couple of thousands of duds as laptops, that never makes the news.
Apple ships a few hundred duds - it's front-page on most tech-blogs and online-publications.
All this is not new. It just means that users will have to align their refresh-cycle with Apple's.
I admit I'm not in the market for a Mac right now. If I was, I'd look for good deals on top-of-the-line iMacs or entry-level MBPs. Really not sure if I'd pay list-price. But then, there's apparently people who pay list-price for cars, too, and they're much more expensive, both at the time of purchase and the costs of keeping them running.
AFAIK, Apple does almost everything themselves. They don't use off-the-shelf chipsets, coolers, cases/enclosures - you name it.
That makes their hardware truly unique - but it comes at a cost.
All these components need to be designed, developed, qualified, tested, built, assembled, QAed.
This, I assume, though mostly done by large OEMs these days, is costly. Both in time and in money (for equipment and tooling - and man-hours of course).
Because Apple wants to get most out of these investments, it draws out the refreshment-cycles.
Also, Intel wasn't that good at delivering CPU and GPU updates in a timely manner in recent history, either.
Even more so, as Apple prefers to use higher-ends CPUs and GPUs that Intel often draws-out shipping even further.
So, they make the best out of it and only release hardware when it's ready.
Maybe the keyboard fiasco might have led to some delays, too. At least this refreshment cycle.
If Dell ships a couple of thousands of duds as laptops, that never makes the news.
Apple ships a few hundred duds - it's front-page on most tech-blogs and online-publications.
All this is not new. It just means that users will have to align their refresh-cycle with Apple's.
I admit I'm not in the market for a Mac right now. If I was, I'd look for good deals on top-of-the-line iMacs or entry-level MBPs. Really not sure if I'd pay list-price. But then, there's apparently people who pay list-price for cars, too, and they're much more expensive, both at the time of purchase and the costs of keeping them running.
Desktops are coming to the end of their evolution. And laptops will after. Apple has not been the company (After SJ returned) to stick with a product and update it to oblivion. They will introduce the next big thing and kill their current product like the iPhone did to the iPod.
Trust that Apple is looking forward and is most likely already planning for some future product that will kill the iPhone.
You really hit the nail on the head. The main problem here is the weak GPU lineup Apple has to offer. Apple does have real professional customers that need GPU power for work but that doesn’t apply to the average YouTube amateur.
I understand the frustration. Usually when you spend $2000 on a PC you’re getting a GPU that can handle the newest games for a couple of years. Back in the 2000s this wasn’t an issue because PC gaming was dying and building PCs was not really mainstream. Now we’re in an era where you can’t even walk into a store and buy a GPU off the shelf.
The new Mac Pro tower will be the only capable gaming platform but it won’t be cheap. But then again Mac Pros have never been marketed as a gaming machine but a workstation. Who would new Xeons for just for gaming? It’s like buying a sports car that will never leave the city.
Apple has less than half the number of employees as IBM. IBM makes nowhere near as much money as Apple does. Also consider how many employees of Apple work at their stores, which while important don't contribute to the engineering of their products and software. It's amazing Apple is able to produce as much new hardware and software as they do now with the workforce they have. They must be working the people to the bone.
I likely bought my last Mac , my 2017 iMac. I will no longer buy Apple laptops, as they are overpriced and have QC issues with keyboards, etc., and my last iPhone was my 6S+ (which still works pretty well and has a headphone jack). My 2017 iPad Pro will likely be my last iPad, as the new ones are rumored to incorporate face id, which I honestly don't want or need, especially since it will likely cause the price to significantly rise. The iPhone diehards on this forum generally tell people like me that we're behind the times, as Macs and headphone jacks are ancient history, and that Apple will do just fine without our business. So be it. Linux laptops and Android phones are both my present and likely my future.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
If we find ourselves near this time next year... still mostly WAITING (what's another 350 or so days, right?
)... I wonder if most Apple developers could be moved to rally together, basically print the above image on shirts (maybe with the days-since-updated numbers) and wear them to WWDC19. I suspect Apple would get the message much louder and much clearer than almost any other way (except the masses protesting the Mac neglect with their wallets vs. all Apple products (including the profit cash cow)).I know: it would never happen, but just imagine Mac fans.
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What? They don’t support them for that long? I think 8 years is a long time. 5 years is about the maximum a machine can last before it is obviously outdated. I think everyone agrees the Mac Mini is a disgrace but the rest of the lineup is not old. Kaby Lake isn’t old! And as far as the MBPs the design is still fresh. It hasn’t even been out for a full 2 years! People expecting Apple to release new hardware designs every year will be massively disappointed. They’ve never done this! Look at the iMac. Apart from losing some weight it’s still very much the same design from ‘09-‘10.
Sad indeed.
I'd love to have a reason to get excited enough to upgrade my aging iMac, Mac Mini and MacBook Air, but minor price drops and spec bumps aren't it.
I have three different generations of MBA and the only noticeable functional difference is in how often each one needs to spin up the fan.
At least I'm saving money I suppose.
I'd love to have a reason to get excited enough to upgrade my aging iMac, Mac Mini and MacBook Air, but minor price drops and spec bumps aren't it.
I have three different generations of MBA and the only noticeable functional difference is in how often each one needs to spin up the fan.
At least I'm saving money I suppose.
It’s a very sad thing to say but as a Mac user, I’m thinking more and more about a Hackintosh. Can’t believe that Apple forces me to this point.
Perhaps, somewhere within that grand bloated Apple campus, through dark endless hallways there is an engineering team working on a product as thin as a piece of 11x14 20# sheet of paper. That sheet of paper containing super components allowing the sheet to emulate everything from todays newspaper to super graphics emulater, spreadsheet, photo analyzer, or what ever else you could imagine.
But, in reality, there are likely teams working on even thinner and flexible iPhones/iPads eliminating every port so you can’t even plug the thing in to charge it. Every external device must be paired to it and communicate via bluetooth. I really miss that mini-headphone jack...
But, in reality, there are likely teams working on even thinner and flexible iPhones/iPads eliminating every port so you can’t even plug the thing in to charge it. Every external device must be paired to it and communicate via bluetooth. I really miss that mini-headphone jack...
And Photos and iTunes. . Fix some of the sync bugs.
What are the compromises? Buying new USB-C peripherals? You will have to do it sooner or later. It is the future and you can already buy 3.1 gen 2 external SSDs for less than $200. I think people just have a phobia of saying goodbye to Type-A. That port is 20 years old! It had a great run but it’s time for it to die.
It almost seems like there is no vision left at Apple for computer hardware. I guess they are doing fine improving the phones. I upgraded to the 2017 iMac when they finally had some nice improvements. But I was a couple years over my normal turnover rate.
And at least 32GB RAM as an option, if not 64 or 128. Plus 4tb (or larger) ssd as an option.
Today’s Apple isn’t planning much ahead, I’m pretty sure.
You should’ve watched 2018 WWDC and all the stress they all performed with.
They are totally busy to keep up with what’s happening in the world today. To not get too far behind.
They are nowhere ahead. You must been slept under a stone if you haven’t noticed that.
THAT is what have changed. Steve Jobs, the visionary, died. Remember?
There’s no one with vision at Apple today, sorry to disappoint you.
But that’s reality.
I'm tackling this by itself. I can see this being the case in some instances, but Adobe is so far behind the development of hardware capabilities - they piss me off to no end. They're way behind the ball in terms of multi-core efficiency and GPU acceleration, especially in terms of photography editing — it's not even funny.
...Which is why I use Capture One Pro. It can use up to 10 cores and utilize GPU acceleration effectively. But it certainly hasn't outstripped the potential of hardware, considering there are 18-core CPU options, with the ability to bridge multiple GPUs...
...I believe we're still a LONG way away from software leaping over the capability of hardware.
As far as MacBook Pro prices in America I really don’t understand the problem. You’ve always had to pay around $2k for a well specced MacBook unless you only buy the cheapest base model. And if you buy the cheapest base model you really cannot complain about performance.
This is like going into a MB or BMW dealer and expecting the turbo V8 trim for $40k. It is the same thing with electronics. You want that huge 2TB SSD, you need to pay for it.
This is like going into a MB or BMW dealer and expecting the turbo V8 trim for $40k. It is the same thing with electronics. You want that huge 2TB SSD, you need to pay for it.